Talk to me about.....the Mad Cat III

[iampoch]

Actually, ER 3145 also lists the Prototypes variant.
You should really read the Prototypes fluff to find out why. The X variant wasn't exactly the success the XTRO makes it look like. ;)

They could have redone the configuration once they've ironed out the kinks. It could be because they were still inexperienced with Ferro -Lamellor. They don't seem to have problems manufacturing mechs with the armor now. But, yeah, I see that kind of variant being a Sea Fox exclusive.

[glitterboy2098]

For combat?  Absolutely.

For recon?  Not at all.

Remember, scouts are not there to fight, they are there to find the enemy and run away (assuming they do not die horribly first, but either way you know where the enemy is).  Thus the most important thing for scouts is mobility, both to find the enemy and to (try to) get out after they do.  Armor is the next priority to improve their odds of survival, followed by sensors to help them find things.  Weapons are really a very minor concern because you will always be hopelessly outnumbered so fighting is not going to be an option.

I must stress that this does not mean it is a bad 'Mech because it is not, it is just that calling it a scout is analogous to calling a Dire Wolf a cavalry 'Mech.

it's a scout that doesn't have to run away from anything bigger than infantry. i think i'd rather have that than some uber fast electronics laden thing that dies when you look at it funny.

and i'd point out you don't require fancy electronics to be a scout. all you really need is a high enough ground speed to range ahead of a unit, good eyes, and a radio.
fancy electronics are a bonus, but hey, the IS got by without them for several centuries. and in the modern post-clans battlefield, having the armor and firepower to be useful when you inevitably run across an enemy is going to be far more effective than a whole suite of fancy probes in most situations.

[wantec]

For me, it's a group scout. It hangs behind the faster scouts, and gives them covering fire when they run into something they can't handle, while fast enough to escape most things the overall force cannot handle.

I suppose I misworded things. A better way to describe what I'm thinking of would be 'scout leader' or 'strike' 'mech. Kinda like a slightly slower, nastier Black Lanner. Either way, it's faster than most regular combat units, and got the firepower to put some real hurt on anything in the same speed bracket.

Or like a smaller, lighter Linebacker?  ;)

[Weirdo]

Well, yeah. O0

Now remember that the Shark/Foxes are selling these things to anyone with the cash. What would a spheroid scout commander give to have one of these backing up his boys? For that matter how many commanders of cavalry forces would trade their front teeth to have a Miffed Kitty providing fire support for their Prefects, Rakshasas, or Lao Hus?

[Savage Coyote]

Well, the linebacker can carry two LRM-20's with Artemis V and four tons of ammo... and a small laser/light tag/light probe.  Then you are done.  So it does have better back-up firepower in that regard :)

Of course a Stormcrow carries EVERYTHING (2xLRM-20's both with Artemis V, 4 tons of ammo, 4 ERML, 4 ER Micro Lasers, AND a Probe) for 66 more BV.  And more armor IIRC, but then we are talking Stormcrows here...

[Weirdo]

I'm sure a lot of IS commanders would sell their firstborn for a Stormcrow, too... 8)

[Fat Guy]

Also the Upgrades section of TRO:3145 tells us there's going to be a 3, 4 and 5 variant.   [drool]

[iampoch]

Also the Upgrades section of TRO:3145 tells us there's going to be a 3, 4 and 5 variant.   [drool]

I hope they're not the Dark Age variants. Looked them up in SSW, and they're crappy due to the limited ammo :-(

[url] http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_III#Dark_Age_Variants]

http:// http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_III#Dark_Age_Variants






                                                                       

[Savage Coyote]

The Dark Age variants are from RS:MWDA.  The variant from Prototypes have four tons of ammo :)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4561/mad-cat-iii-standard

[Diablo48]

For me, it's a group scout. It hangs behind the faster scouts, and gives them covering fire when they run into something they can't handle, while fast enough to escape most things the overall force cannot handle.

I suppose I misworded things. A better way to describe what I'm thinking of would be 'scout leader' or 'strike' 'mech. Kinda like a slightly slower, nastier Black Lanner. Either way, it's faster than most regular combat units, and got the firepower to put some real hurt on anything in the same speed bracket.

This might work in a tactical game, but the real point of scouts is that they can range several kilometers ahead of your forces and get themselves out of trouble.  If you include this in your scout formation, I will net it down and kill it with my own hunter-killer formations because they move faster and will be more than enough to overwhelm you when I drop a trinary of them on your head.

it's a scout that doesn't have to run away from anything bigger than infantry. i think i'd rather have that than some uber fast electronics laden thing that dies when you look at it funny.

and i'd point out you don't require fancy electronics to be a scout. all you really need is a high enough ground speed to range ahead of a unit, good eyes, and a radio.
fancy electronics are a bonus, but hey, the IS got by without them for several centuries. and in the modern post-clans battlefield, having the armor and firepower to be useful when you inevitably run across an enemy is going to be far more effective than a whole suite of fancy probes in most situations.

Ok, I really have to ask if you read my post.  I very clearly said that speed was the single highest priority for a scout, and I ranked armor above electronics which is exactly what you seem to be trying to argue for with this post.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Yes, but he also ranks guns above electronics.  So you can fight your way out if necessary.

[Kitsune413]

... but it isnt a scout? Its a fire support mech. If it wanted to be a brawler it could have brought lrm 15's and heavier lasers. Or the srm variant.

But it isnt a scout... not many 55 ton mechs are scouts...

There arent even alot of 35 ton scout mechs. Generally being on the top of the weight bracket makes you some kind of skirmisher. If you were a 3025 commander you would just indirect fire with this thing like a trebuchet.

The only reason its a brawler is because of the lack of clan lrm minimums. Its fire support all the way.

You dont scout with trebuchets or wolverines.  ;D medium mechs are versatile.

[Diablo48]

Yes, but he also ranks guns above electronics.  So you can fight your way out if necessary.

The thing is, there is no such thing as fighting your way out unless the enemy has a full wall of units blocking movement.  A scout will be running for its life and taking whatever shots it happens to get, not trying to kill things before getting away.

... but it isnt a scout? Its a fire support mech. If it wanted to be a brawler it could have brought lrm 15's and heavier lasers. Or the srm variant....

My point exactly.  This thing is very clearly intended for combat, not reconnaissance.

[Klat]

Out of curiosity which variant does the IWM mini represent?

[SCC]

Out of curiosity which variant does the IWM mini represent?

If we where talking about an Omni I'd say all of them

Most likely the first/original model but

[UnLimiTeD]

I can clearly see this mech supporting a Lyran scout lance.
Say, a charger, a C3 Berzerker, one of these, and an electronics boat of preferably the same speed.
You range ahead of your HQ until you find the enemy, then you hotdrop a full company of assaults on them.  O:-)

[wantec]

Well, the linebacker can carry two LRM-20's with Artemis V and four tons of ammo... and a small laser/light tag/light probe.  Then you are done.  So it does have better back-up firepower in that regard :)

Of course a Stormcrow carries EVERYTHING (2xLRM-20's both with Artemis V, 4 tons of ammo, 4 ERML, 4 ER Micro Lasers, AND a Probe) for 66 more BV.  And more armor IIRC, but then we are talking Stormcrows here...

Mostly I was pointing out the intended role of the Linebacker, as opposed to a direct comparison.

But, now that you mention it, the Linebacker also has 1.5 tons more armor and 4 more DHS than that variant of the Mad Cat III. And since all of that is fixed to the base chassis, there's only so much room to work with. The MC3 is probably better overall, and I would hope so for a newer 'Mech that's more optimized in terms of engine tonnage and all.

[Savage Coyote]

The thing is, there is no such thing as fighting your way out unless the enemy has a full wall of units blocking movement.  A scout will be running for its life and taking whatever shots it happens to get, not trying to kill things before getting away.

My point exactly.  This thing is very clearly intended for combat, not reconnaissance.

In a 2x2 or 3x3 map size game of BattleTech, I'm just fine with a 6/9/x "scout."  If we are talking a larger scope, then yeah, it's not that useful in that regard. 

(and I believe this is probably our issue at the moment, you are talking on a larger, grander, strategic scale while I'm focusing on the tactical, single engagement scale?)

[DarkISI]

In a 2x2 or 3x3 map size game of BattleTech, I'm just fine with a 6/9/x "scout."  If we are talking a larger scope, then yeah, it's not that useful in that regard. 

(and I believe this is probably our issue at the moment, you are talking on a larger, grander, strategic scale while I'm focusing on the tactical, single engagement scale?)

So, you are both right? Good to hear. ;)

[Savage Coyote]

So, you are both right? Good to hear. ;)

 :P

 O0

[Alex Keller]

In Alpha Strike rules, the Mad Cat III has 12" of movement, lumping it in with all the 5/8 heavies and taking away the advantage of speed.

[Weirdo]

It's still faster, as 5/8 movers get 10" of AS movement.

[Savage Coyote]

It's still faster, as 5/8 movers get 10" of AS movement.

Still share a +2 movement mod  :-\

[Weirdo]

Not really different between the relationship between 5/8 movers and 6/9 movers...was it supposed to gain some huge advantage?

[Savage Coyote]

True, though in TW it's one hex easier to get a +3 :)

[Weirdo]

.....yeees? ???

I'm really not getting this. People are complaining that 6 is greater than 5, but only by one instead of...something greater than one? Did they want the Mad Cat III to be an 8/12 or something?

[Stinger]

Out of curiosity which variant does the IWM mini represent?

I believe it originally represented the RS: DA1 Mad Cat III version, but later the thing lost its AMS, so it probably best represents the X variant now.

[Savage Coyote]

.....yeees? ???

I'm really not getting this. People are complaining that 6 is greater than 5, but only by one instead of...something greater than one? Did they want the Mad Cat III to be an 8/12 or something?

I'm not complaining... well... my biggest AS complaint is the reduction in defensive modifiers, but thats just because some of my favorites lost a little umph because they don't jump.  Not a big deal or enough to cry for pages and pages.  I was merely pointing out the shared modifiers.  *shrug*

[Alex Keller]

I'm saying the MK III loses one of its big bonuses, the +3 movement mod, and is more of a cavalry type piece than a scout.

[Weirdo]

I'm saying the MK III loses one of its big bonuses, the +3 movement mod, and is more of a cavalry type piece than a scout.

That Mad Cat in particular, or every unit in the game that moves faster than 4/6?