Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett  (Read 6711 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« on: 18 October 2013, 17:06:22 »
’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett

Crockett. Named for Davy Crockett, the frontiersman hero/politician who died at the Alamo. (And whose name later became used for the lowest grade nuclear weapons in the BattleTech arsenal.) This 85-tonner outdid even the most optimistic of its designers’ hopes.

Designed in response to the Hidden Wars and the shuffling of front-line units away from training duties, the Crockett was designed to be an assault/heavy trainer in the same mold as the medium-class Chameleon. Because Blakenburg Technologies took the design requirements of being battle-capable seriously, within ten years of its introduction date of 2735, SLDF commanders were discovering how effective the design could be on the real battlefield.

As a training design, the original CRK-5003-1 Crockett does not waste money on expensive materials like endo-steel or ferro-fibrous armor. Nor does the design use an extralight engine. Instead, a 255-rated Strand power plant gives the design equivalent ground speed to the older Stalker design. Three jump jets give the design additional maneuverability (and allow for training pilots for the heavier Highlander, among others). Armor protection is at maximum and is laid out in a 9, 40/14, 27/9, 28, 36 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively).

The weapons-load consists of a Class-10 LB-X autocannon, twin extended-model large lasers, twin small lasers, and twin 6-pack SRM launchers. While each launcher has one ton of ammunition allocated to them, the autocannon has an astounding three tons. CASE is not utilized (it is a trainer, after all). Fifteen double-strength heat sinks struggle with the heat load of a full jump/alpha strike (which would exactly activate the much more recent TSM technology).

As the Crockett joined actual combat formations the one complaint about the design appears to have been the amount of ammunition that had a habit of being critted and sending the pilot on a premature trip to the afterlife. In an effort to deal with this flaw, the design was given the Royal treatment. The CRK-5003-1b model utilizes an endo-steel skeleton, and swaps the autocannon, SRM racks, and small lasers for a Gauss Rifle (with two tons of ammo), four medium-class pulse lasers and two standard medium lasers. Armor allocation is in the pattern of 9, 35/19, 25/11, 28, 36 (which, for the sake of clarity, was the allocation for the main design according to the 3050 Upgrade TRO). While this is a nice design, the space requirements of it all meant that the flaw they intended to correct was replaced by the possibility of a Gauss detonation.

The Succession Wars were not kind to the Crockett. According to both TRO: 3039, and TRO: 3050 Upgrade, the Crockett did not survive long into that period, mostly due to how effective they were, and thus how quickly they were pressed to the front lines. Based on the MUL, though, it appears that in 2881, the CRK-5003-0 downgraded model did enter service for a short time. The most recent record sheet of that design uses the same armor compliment of the Royal model, and the only other differences being the downgrade of the Class-10 autocannon to a standard model (fed by two tons of ammo), and the heat sinks being single-strength models.

Aside from a few refurbished models altered enough to be classified as the Katana, new Crocketts did not appear until 3054, with the reopening of the Terra production lines. The Blakists continued producing the design after claiming Terra. In order to replace the production they lost ComStar helped to upgrade Grumium Creations’ factories. Two variants were produced from them, the first appearing in 3062, the CRK-5003-3, which removes two points of armor from each arm and leg to install CASE in the right torso (moving all the Class-10 ammo there, and the SRM ammo to the right arm). The second upgrade showed up in 3063, the CRK-5004-1 (or CRK-5003-4 in one set of sheets). That model differs from the -5003-3 in restoring the armor to maximum, trades the small lasers for extended-models, downgrades the SRM launchers to 4-packs, drops one ton of Class-10 ammo, and adds an Improved C3 system.

The final variant is the Word of Blake model, the CRK-5005-1, which showed up in 3070. The differences from the -5004-1 model is that one heat sink, one ton of SRM ammo and both small lasers were removed, the engine was replaced with a light-class engine, the cockpit replaced with a small version. All of this to upgrade to the jump jets to Improved models, and adds two more.

The Crockett has spawned at least one other design, the Katana. On top of that, its chassis was used to build the Black Watch, and there are some rumors around that the Falcons may have used its stripped-down nature as basis for the Wakazashi.

Using one is straightforward enough. The original pilots of the design would maintain distance to whittle the enemy’s armor down. Then, before they could accurately target him, the pilot would jump behind the other machine, daring him to turn. If he didn’t, the Crockett could shoot him in the back. If he did turn, the Crockett’s friends could do so. This is still effective for the upgraded models. All models have heat issues. The two with the largest heat woes are the rarest, the downgraded Succession Wars model, and the Royal variant. The last two variants can allow for better targeting by teammates, simply due to the C3 system.

Fighting one is a chore, mostly due to all but one having maximum protection. High-powered weaponry works, but you need a lot of it. Heat-causing weapons also work, but they tend to be much shorter-ranged. Make note of any friends he may have. If able to target locations, the right torso works on most models, even the CASEd ones. All but the Royal variant carry at least three tons of ammunition in that area, making it possible to cascade the pilot to death. As for the Royal variant, its left torso holds the Gauss Rifle, which can cripple the machine. Dealing with the two C3 models depends on which end of the network they are on. If they are close, jamming them with ECM is a must. If they are the back-up for the fast, light PITA, deal with him first.

While I am unsure if the factory on Terra survived the Liberation, if it did, I can see this design still being produced. As a trainer that can be pressed into military action if needed, it would seem to be sort of a cost-benefit winner.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #1 on: 18 October 2013, 17:45:39 »
Having only really used the Royal version, I'm in love with this one.  Deadly at all ranges, though punishing t anything trying to rush it.  My Klondike Coyotes field this guy for sure.  Solid assault brawler.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #2 on: 18 October 2013, 21:13:11 »
I have to admit while I've heard of this one, it never stuck.
It's as good as unknown to me.
Always nice to see something you had no real idea existed. O0
I guess I've read a bit of it on the sarna page of the wakizashi or Katana; not sure. Are there even such?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #3 on: 18 October 2013, 23:36:17 »
I've always liked this design since I first picked up TRO:2750 back in the '90s, but I've only used it once that I recall. A friend and I played out a series of Amaris-coup themed scenarios a few years ago and the Crockett was a blast in the one mission that I used it in.  He really had to monkey-pile it to bring it down. 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #4 on: 19 October 2013, 01:45:07 »
I love this design for some reason. The ERLL and LBX combo really works for me and the jump jets add just enough extra movement to make up for the slightly slower ground speed IMO. Being 85 tons must do the trick as well as the Stalker and the Templar are also some of my favored designs. Something about that number...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #5 on: 19 October 2013, 04:20:57 »
The downgrade must be a heat hog

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #6 on: 19 October 2013, 07:01:55 »
  The Crockett had not too much time in our timetables until a fateful evening 4 months ago. We discovered an evil beast that dealt a lot of damage all the time and it wasn't easy to defeat. The heat issues are easily overcome with proper firing patterns and bracket fire. Just skip to fire one ER Large Laser from time to time and you are done. Heavy armor helps a lot to avoid fast deaths and the ammo is good to bring things like inferno or cluster ammo to the battlefield.

  It is a mech that can bring three heavy hitting weapons at long range, one of them a LBX-10 (also known as the Swiss-knife of Battletech weapons, it is wonderful to deal with tanks, aerofighters and fast movers) and it has Warhammer-levels firepower at short range.  IMHO this makes the Crockett one of the jewells of TRO 2750 and a wonderful mech up to 3067, where the number of better weapons available is higher and the twin ER Large/LBX10 finally shows its age. This doesn't mean that the Crockett is a bad mech after 3067, it just went from "OMG I don't want to be close to this" to "it is a pain to deal with him". Really, I don't want to be the guy facing a line of Crocketts and Highlanders (not surprisingly, both mechs work better together).

  Finally, the art is ugly and the mini doesn't help a lot. It takes a lot of added parts (like the covers of the SRM bays) and a lot of repose to bring some dignity to the mech.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #7 on: 19 October 2013, 08:01:38 »
That royal version is evil, evil i tell ya!  *bad experiences...*

Col.Hengist

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #8 on: 19 October 2013, 08:36:23 »
I've enjoyed this mech for some time.  I've used the downgraded SW era version in SW era games along side stalkers and and highlanders. The mix of weapons of the 3 are a killer combination. Even against an even bv force of smaller mechs.

 The standard is fun but i usually mod it to get case. Something about all that ammo going up makes me twitch...

We did a Klondike campaign not loong after it came out. Trying the Royal on for size was fun but i can hit with a gauss to save my life... seriously, can't hit in megamek with a gauss on 4's... so i let others use that wonderful mech and used the original (mod).

I've not had the pleasure of using any of the others but the WoB one looks fun.ok but imo looses too much armor.

 This is a great mech and a great article. Thank you.

All in all, i think i prefer the original with case added, the Katana is
« Last Edit: 22 October 2013, 08:31:28 by Col.Hengist »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #9 on: 22 October 2013, 08:26:52 »
Always liked the Crockett and I hope it was one of the designs to get some update love in the new TRO- just swapping out the IS ERLL for Clan ones would be huge.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #10 on: 22 October 2013, 11:10:11 »
Always liked the Crockett and I hope it was one of the designs to get some update love in the new TRO- just swapping out the IS ERLL for Clan ones would be huge.

Nope, no new variant in RS:NTNU :-(

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #11 on: 22 October 2013, 12:09:01 »
Not meaning to be rude to the author, so please don't take it that way, but I'm curious about something you wrote.

Quote
The Crockett has spawned at least one other design, the Katana.

I've always treated this Mech as being somewhat like the Clan Omnimechs, in that it's two names for the same machine- I'm curious why you interpret it differently. (Or am I misreading you?)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #12 on: 22 October 2013, 12:39:58 »
Not meaning to be rude to the author, so please don't take it that way, but I'm curious about something you wrote.

I've always treated this Mech as being somewhat like the Clan Omnimechs, in that it's two names for the same machine- I'm curious why you interpret it differently. (Or am I misreading you?)
Is it like the Thug and the Hatamoto where the base stats are so similar, but the outward appearance is different enough for the new name? I honestly don't know, I don't know the artwork very well for this.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #13 on: 22 October 2013, 12:48:17 »
Is it like the Thug and the Hatamoto where the base stats are so similar, but the outward appearance is different enough for the new name? I honestly don't know, I don't know the artwork very well for this.

Exact same Mech- literally, the Crocketts given to the Combine in 3039 by Comstar were given minor modifications and called 'Katanas' in place of their old name. The line that sticks in my head from the original 3050 was "There is little merit to Gunji-no-kanrei Kurita's claim that these changes warrant a new design name", or something to that effect, from the Comstar writer.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #14 on: 22 October 2013, 13:28:45 »
Is it like the Thug and the Hatamoto where the base stats are so similar, but the outward appearance is different enough for the new name? I honestly don't know, I don't know the artwork very well for this.

The Hatamoto sadly started with single heat sinks.  That alone makes it a whole different beast, even if the BV barely reflects it.


I'm familiar with the Crockett primarily through the Katana series.  A very welcomed mech among my DCMS forces.  It does feel more like a big heavy mech than an assualt, but has all the good needed to perform a number of jobs.  I dig it.  Maybe not the best candidate for an ace mechwarrior, but a solid addition for a line assault supporting long ranged heavies like Warhammers and Marauders.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #15 on: 22 October 2013, 14:03:25 »
Sorry guys, the hatamoto series are charger refits. No where near as good as a thug.

The katana isn't near as good a mech as the crocket.
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #16 on: 22 October 2013, 16:19:53 »
No worries... I think the Katana may get its due this week...  ;)

As for the name change, it appears to be an effort by Teddy K to deflect scrutiny. Thing is, they got so many other old Star League designs (and at least those are actually covered in TRO: 3039) that, frankly, it seems a bit... odd.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #17 on: 22 October 2013, 16:29:35 »
Agreed, why didn't they change the name of the crab, or sentinal...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #18 on: 22 October 2013, 16:31:31 »
While i hated playing against the crockets, i never had good luck playing WITH them (always getting the SRM or AC ammo critted), so never really liked them.  Surprised not one of the refits ever went to an RAC 5 or UAC or LB10 to replace the base AC10.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #19 on: 22 October 2013, 17:35:34 »
I've always treated this Mech as being somewhat like the Clan Omnimechs, in that it's two names for the same machine- I'm curious why you interpret it differently. (Or am I misreading you?)
The same could be said for the Wasp and Stinger and it's almost acknowledged with the Rommel and Patton

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #20 on: 22 October 2013, 18:48:49 »
The same could be said for the Wasp and Stinger and it's almost acknowledged with the Rommel and Patton

I'm not asking about those.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #21 on: 22 October 2013, 19:26:50 »
While i hated playing against the crockets, i never had good luck playing WITH them (always getting the SRM or AC ammo critted), so never really liked them.  Surprised not one of the refits ever went to an RAC 5 or UAC or LB10 to replace the base AC10.

One did have the LB-10X I think . . .
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #22 on: 22 October 2013, 19:29:24 »
I'm not asking about those.
I was pointing out how common the situation was

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #23 on: 22 October 2013, 20:56:15 »
OK...  ???

So, back to the Mech we're discussing, the Crockett...
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #24 on: 22 October 2013, 21:09:42 »
Sort of surprised we never got a dual HPPC Katana during the Jihad since the Dracs were throwing them on everything.  They did start producing their own rather than just the ComStar handoffs?

How often does the Crockett appear in Clan secondline forces?  I know we talk about things like the Imp, Black Knight, Thunderhawk and Devastator for Clan secondline, but a Crockett would work pretty well.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #25 on: 22 October 2013, 21:37:55 »
Sort of surprised we never got a dual HPPC Katana during the Jihad since the Dracs were throwing them on everything.  They did start producing their own rather than just the ComStar handoffs?

How often does the Crockett appear in Clan secondline forces?  I know we talk about things like the Imp, Black Knight, Thunderhawk and Devastator for Clan secondline, but a Crockett would work pretty well.

Good question, actually- if the Combine doesn't have a fresh source of CrocKatanas, they may be doing refits (particularly in the Jihad) out of necessity rather than anything else- a heavy PPC model would be intriguing, perhaps replacing the large lasers and cannon, call it use the remaining weight for heat sinks (doubles!) and maybe upgrading the SRMs to Streaks or MMLs? Vanilla, but effective. Anything bigger, like engine changes and the like, would probably require 1) an assembly line for new models or 2) more effort than it's worth for a handful of inherited orphan-Mechs.

As for Clan forces... I didn't see much of it at a glance, to be honest. It may be a matter of honor- an Omnimech is for the elite warriors, second-liners for the next tier, the lower tier gets old SL-era gear... so who gets stuck with the League's old training Mechs like Crocketts and Chameleons?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #26 on: 23 October 2013, 06:28:12 »
While the article I'm writing on the Katana will try to deal with that issue, it appears they got one production site for a time, then had to give it back to Blakenburg Technologies. And said company was so impressed with certain variants, they hired the entire production team, with the full blessing of Independence (their employer), and continued as a joint operation.

Thing is, I am unsure what happened in the Jihad. There is one variant, but after that...

Looking at Sarna... I think the plant is still in operation. It's a little over one jump to the northeast of New Samarkand (I know "north" is Coreward, but unsure if "east" is Spin or Anti-Spinward). So, yeah... probably still churning out machines.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #27 on: 23 October 2013, 06:57:41 »
As for Clan forces... I didn't see much of it at a glance, to be honest. It may be a matter of honor- an Omnimech is for the elite warriors, second-liners for the next tier, the lower tier gets old SL-era gear... so who gets stuck with the League's old training Mechs like Crocketts and Chameleons?
Warrior sibkos? They are trainer 'Mechs after all.

Maybe the training officer gets a Crockett IIC that strips the SL weaponry for Clan equivalents.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #28 on: 23 October 2013, 09:23:49 »
I have Crockets in my Blood Spirit force. It's fun using old SL trainers to beat up Adder omnis...

 If they would be anywhere in a clan force it would be there.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #29 on: 23 October 2013, 10:21:53 »
Given that I own two Crockett minis, I really should find a good use for them. Perhaps a reinforced cadre lance consisting of four recently-graduated cadets that still need in-the-field seasoning, with a fifth 'mech for the veteran instructor that has to ride herd on them. 2 Crockets and 2 TBA mediums(P-Hawks, Crabs, Starslayers?) for the cadets, and some sort of mobile heavy for the instructor. Sound fun?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #30 on: 23 October 2013, 10:50:01 »
Seeing as you are using 5 . . . some Marian academy training cadre?  I say Starslayers and some 4/6/4 heavy the Marians would get . . . ooo, maybe the Crusader 7W, more Blakist salvage just like the Crocketts.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #31 on: 23 October 2013, 10:57:56 »
Nah, looking at an actual Star League-era unit. The reinforced lance formation would be solely for these training units, since assigning an instructor to only three cadets seems a tad wasteful(but for some reason 4 cadets seems okay, I dunno). There are other advantages. Since the majority of the troopers in the force will be extremely inexperienced(the cadets), having the extra firepower of a fifth 'mech would balance things out if/when they find themselves in a real fight. Also, it gives the instructor the option of stepping back and letting the cadets handle some situations by themselves and learn lance-level tactics at the same time. The instructor could even put different cadets in charge at differeing times, giving each one lance command experience.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #32 on: 23 October 2013, 15:05:09 »
Call it the two Crocketts, a pair of Chameleons (even though they're archived), and... er, a Black Knight for the instructor?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #33 on: 23 October 2013, 15:49:47 »
That was my initial thought. Thing is, I'd prefer something a bit more combat-ready than a Chameleon since they'd be undertaking field ops. The Black Knight is also a very good idea, but I'm leery of putting the instructor in something ground-bound when all the cadets can jump.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #34 on: 23 October 2013, 16:00:07 »
2 Crockets and 2 TBA mediums(P-Hawks, Crabs, Starslayers?) for the cadets, and some sort of mobile heavy for the instructor. Sound fun?

Chameleons?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #35 on: 23 October 2013, 17:06:01 »
Chameleons?

 Helbie already suggested that.

What about a guillotine for the trainers mech? It's a good general mech and for the smaller mechs.... Hermies?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #36 on: 23 October 2013, 17:12:13 »
I think the Chammies are fine . . . but you may want something like a Royal or SL Executioner.  It can move the same as the Chameleons but is a bit better suited.  I actually still like Starslayers more, since part of the Chameleon was also supposed to train the operator about heat and bracketing weapons.  I am not sure you want to put a unit that has heat issues in the line when it can be helped, the 'slayer is more heat friendly.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #37 on: 23 October 2013, 17:19:48 »
Yeah, I'm really thinking I'm going to go with Starslayers on that end. Guillotine's pretty good, but I kinda want the instructor to have more ranged firepower than that. Highlanders or Emperors seems like overkill....at this point, I'm actually looking at the classic Griffin.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #38 on: 23 October 2013, 17:35:22 »
OK, call it the CrocKatanas (that name is catchy, isn't it?), a Starslayer, a... Whitworth, some fire support?... I guess the Guillotine is the best bet, the Grasshopper wasn't really common quite yet, was it?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #39 on: 23 October 2013, 17:47:18 »
Given that I own two Crockett minis, I really should find a good use for them. Perhaps a reinforced cadre lance consisting of four recently-graduated cadets that still need in-the-field seasoning, with a fifth 'mech for the veteran instructor that has to ride herd on them. 2 Crockets and 2 TBA mediums(P-Hawks, Crabs, Starslayers?) for the cadets, and some sort of mobile heavy for the instructor. Sound fun?
I'd suggest Chameleons for the other two trainees, preferably one of the upgrade version that tries to make it combat worthy, as for the trainer a proper command 'Mech, like that Warlord variant

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #40 on: 23 October 2013, 18:00:03 »
I'd suggest Chameleons for the other two trainees, preferably one of the upgrade version that tries to make it combat worthy, as for the trainer a proper command 'Mech, like that Warlord variant

...you missed the rest of the thread, didn't you... ???

Eh, enough of this sidequest. I'll find something. Back to the Crockett itself!
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #41 on: 23 October 2013, 18:18:44 »
...you missed the rest of the thread, didn't you... ???

Eh, enough of this sidequest. I'll find something. Back to the Crockett itself!

...Indeed.

So we have a jumping assault Mech here... which, in its day, is a pretty rare thing- that puts it in company with the Highlander, the Victor, the Emperor, and... ah, anyone else? I can't think of anything else prior to 3055 that fits the bill. That makes it a pretty interesting customer to consider, particularly with its long-ranged laser attacks giving it an advantage over the others in terms of range. It's an interesting chassis to tinker with- it doesn't quite have the muscle of the Emperor, but the long range lasers combined with the LBX and SRM crit-seeking make it a great pairing with the Victor, covering the smaller Mech as it approaches and then sending cluster attacks into the AC-20 holes opened up by the Victor. Great pairing.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #42 on: 23 October 2013, 18:36:05 »
...Indeed.

So we have a jumping assault Mech here... which, in its day, is a pretty rare thing- that puts it in company with the Highlander, the Victor, the Emperor, and... ah, anyone else? I can't think of anything else prior to 3055 that fits the bill. That makes it a pretty interesting customer to consider, particularly with its long-ranged laser attacks giving it an advantage over the others in terms of range. It's an interesting chassis to tinker with- it doesn't quite have the muscle of the Emperor, but the long range lasers combined with the LBX and SRM crit-seeking make it a great pairing with the Victor, covering the smaller Mech as it approaches and then sending cluster attacks into the AC-20 holes opened up by the Victor. Great pairing.

The Pillager was a Star League design. And the Shogun was borderline, though I think (going off memory of the article I wrote on that one) they were only coming off the prototype stage as the Amaris Coup happened.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #43 on: 23 October 2013, 18:52:39 »
The Pillager was a Star League design. And the Shogun was borderline, though I think (going off memory of the article I wrote on that one) they were only coming off the prototype stage as the Amaris Coup happened.

Yeah, I thought about the Shogun, but like you said it was still so new I'm assuming few units actually had one. How common was the Pillager though by the time of the Amaris coup? I never really had the impression it was in regular service, but my books are packed for moving at the moment so I'm going off my memory... which is increasingly addled with old age and past inebriation  ;D
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #44 on: 23 October 2013, 19:06:53 »
Yeah, I thought about the Shogun, but like you said it was still so new I'm assuming few units actually had one. How common was the Pillager though by the time of the Amaris coup? I never really had the impression it was in regular service, but my books are packed for moving at the moment so I'm going off my memory... which is increasingly addled with old age and past inebriation  ;D

The -3Z model appears to have entered service in the late 2600s... So perhaps prevalent enough. Thing is its such a beast, it may have been more of a command ride.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #45 on: 23 October 2013, 19:08:50 »
Could you imagine whole battalions of them?  [drool]
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #46 on: 23 October 2013, 20:00:07 »
How common was the Pillager though by the time of the Amaris coup?

Well, it saw service during the Reunification War...
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #47 on: 24 October 2013, 02:57:54 »
I think a Pillager is a fitting ride for a commander :P
In any case, 85 tons is the sweet spot for jump jets, and if not for the lack of CASE, I'd call it munchy for the age.
Is the Royal Upgrade actually better than the original, aside the extra equipment afforded by the Endosteel?
Strikes me you don't really gain all that much.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #48 on: 24 October 2013, 08:44:16 »
Not to be a jerk, but we've wandered pretty far from the focus of this article, which is the Crockett. Maybe you could take your deliberations regarding a training force composition to another thread in say Ground Combat or General Discussion?  O:-)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #49 on: 24 October 2013, 09:02:02 »
The poster right above you was asking about the crocket...

To answer yoir question... i don't think it's better. Just another version of really good. I prefer the original with a small laser taken out and case added.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #50 on: 24 October 2013, 09:29:44 »
I think the primary difference is the Royal is all hole-puncher, the gauss rifle for the big holes and the ERLL to make a bit smaller holes.  IF you do get into the SRM range than it can exploit those holes.  I would prefer the LBX variant with CASE refit over the gauss rifle, since 3/5/3 makes it hard to exploit the holes with SRMs.  Also, the cluster ammo benefit is nice when you jump and lacks the minimum range of the gauss rifle.

I am really liking the idea of a dual HPPC and LB-10X Crockett/Katana, but the SRMs are definitely going to be shrunk and perhaps better with MMLs.  However, after looking at HMP, if you are going that route the LBX has to be shrunk down to a Class 5 to get secondaries.  Which is OK since it still critseeks and gives you a long range AA and armor option.

I might revisit this design if my mercs pick it up as salvage against the ComGuards for the 3/5/3 assault lance.  It would be interesting grouped with a Highlander, Emperor and jumping Viking.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #51 on: 24 October 2013, 09:47:47 »
Dropping those (let's be honest, useless) small lasers gains a ton... dropping the SRMs down to four-racks gains two more tons... that would gain me two AMS and two tons of ammo... that could be entertaining as well, making an already- difficult to kill Mech even more of a pain to get rid of.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #52 on: 24 October 2013, 10:25:36 »
Yea, i spent some time yesterday on HMP myself. HPPC varient, snppc with 3 mml 7's... without getting into custom designs here... that snppc one i made was really nasty.

 The thing with the royal is you really don't need the JJ'S since it's become a long range FS platform. Take off the JJ'Sand add... something.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #53 on: 24 October 2013, 10:39:47 »
Hmm, would the same hold true for a HPPC variant?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #54 on: 24 October 2013, 11:50:41 »
Hmm, would the same hold true for a HPPC variant?

I'd keep them on that one, otherwise you might as well just sell the damned thing and buy a Thug.

(Not that I'd be opposed to doing that anyway, I've long been a Thug fan)

If anything, twin-snubbies and IJJs might be fun too- leap over terrain to get into short range and let the cannons fly, leap back out if things get hairy.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #55 on: 24 October 2013, 11:56:41 »
Oh yeah . . . IJJ, snubbies, LB-10X and MMLs . . . I bring the PAIN!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #56 on: 24 October 2013, 13:25:05 »
Oh yeah . . . IJJ, snubbies, LB-10X and MMLs . . . I bring the PAIN!

Write that one up for the fan design area, and I'll promptly give it a hug and the Hellbie Seal O' Approval  O0

(Plasma rifles are intriguing as well, for some reason I keep thinking a twin-plasma, IJJ, stealth armor Capellan version would be fun. Which means I've spent waaay too much time talking to cavingjan lately.)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #57 on: 24 October 2013, 17:43:32 »
Dropping those (let's be honest, useless) small lasers gains a ton... dropping the SRMs down to four-racks gains two more tons... that would gain me two AMS and two tons of ammo... that could be entertaining as well, making an already- difficult to kill Mech even more of a pain to get rid of.

Alternately, drop the smalls, and ONE SRM, upgrade the other to a streak 6 pack, which still nets you 3.5 tons saved, which can get you 2 AMS's and 2 tons of ammo and Case for a torso.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #58 on: 24 October 2013, 22:32:50 »
Alternately, drop the smalls, and ONE SRM, upgrade the other to a streak 6 pack, which still nets you 3.5 tons saved, which can get you 2 AMS's and 2 tons of ammo and Case for a torso.

I hate it when someone comes up with a better idea than mine. I'm banning you for a week. Jerk.  :D

Nah, I like it- I was leaning more towards what could be done with 2750 tech, but if we go with modern tech that's a pretty simple swap, one would think. I'm all for it- keeps the crit-seeking the design does so well, becomes a bit more survivable against modern missile technology, and doesn't really lose all that much combat potential. Sometimes simple upgrades are the best upgrades.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #59 on: 25 October 2013, 04:59:12 »
Well, you should be able to do it with SL tech.
I think SSRM-2s were available?
Use 4, same weight, save a ton of ammo for case, and with the small lasers removed you still get the weight for an ams.

... I think we're really moving past discussion the original design here... :P
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #60 on: 25 October 2013, 09:45:11 »
I'd keep them on that one, otherwise you might as well just sell the damned thing and buy a Thug.

(Not that I'd be opposed to doing that anyway, I've long been a Thug fan)

If anything, twin-snubbies and IJJs might be fun too- leap over terrain to get into short range and let the cannons fly, leap back out if things get hairy.
You may want to use a 5005 model as the base for this, it already has the IJJs and uses a Light Engine. Remove the C3i and Large Lasers and you get enough tonnage to add the SNPPCs. You'll still have a half ton available. If you're willing to drop one of the MMLs, you can use a standard cockpit and add a supercharger to really surprise someone.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #61 on: 11 October 2017, 12:32:24 »
Sort of surprised we never got a dual HPPC Katana during the Jihad since the Dracs were throwing them on everything.  They did start producing their own rather than just the ComStar handoffs?

How often does the Crockett appear in Clan secondline forces?  I know we talk about things like the Imp, Black Knight, Thunderhawk and Devastator for Clan secondline, but a Crockett would work pretty well.

I had the same thought this seems like mech that the blood spirits would like

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #62 on: 11 October 2017, 12:58:50 »
I had the same thought this seems like mech that the blood spirits would like

For the same weight and movement profile they're probably happy enough with the Blood Kite.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #63 on: 11 October 2017, 18:40:34 »
Its movement and actuator parts let it fit into units that field the Blood Kite.  With it having a LB-10X, it also gives AA and anti-armor support to Blood Kites.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #64 on: 11 October 2017, 18:45:18 »
 [drool]

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #65 on: 11 October 2017, 19:40:48 »
Its movement and actuator parts let it fit into units that field the Blood Kite.  With it having a LB-10X, it also gives AA and anti-armor support to Blood Kites.
The Blood Kite could suitably do the Anti-Armor role already; Triple LRM-15s and SRM-4s should provide enough hits to cause a motive crit. AA, however, is a role that the Blood Spirits might find better suited for the Predator, despite the Predator's higher price tag.

Keep the Blood Kites moving at 5 for a run, and the Predator at 5 for a walk; The Predator's higher speed also allows it to go to positions where the twin LB10X ACs it mounts can tear apart aircraft or vehicle threats as they come. Alternatively, the Predator 2 mounts twin HAGR-20s, for some high-dakka AA power.
« Last Edit: 11 October 2017, 19:42:55 by Caedis Animus »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #66 on: 11 October 2017, 22:00:43 »
Predator is a new mech, not likely one they had a lot of or able to get in.  The Crockett was a old SLDF left over which means they did not have to go to outside sources.  As also stated, the Crockett also used same supply chain . . . standard armor, 255 SFE, same size Gyro, same size Jump Jets, same series/sizes of actuators and could/should have the main weapons be interchangeable- the Large Lasers.  Its never addressed but I would doubt the Clans still churn out SL spec weapons . . . if the ERLL on a Crocket is damaged & unable to be repaired and no other stockpile of ERLL/LL (SL or early Clan) are available I imagine they plug in a Clan ERLL.  Sure the design would be 'underweight' by our eyes but pretty sure it would not matter to them- in fact it would probably be preferable to have the matching ranges.

Pred has less armor, does not jump and uses a XL.  I would imagine those they have would go to frontline cavalry or striker stars with their limited Summoners, Timberwolves and Stooping Hawks rather than a secondline garrison units.  The Pred DOES have twice the ranged crit-seeking ability compared to the Crockett until it gets under 9 hexes.

LRMs and HAGs still cluster at 5 which for the BK means at best 3 crit chances per launcher or for the Pred 2 8 chances though longer ranged than the LBX.
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Iron Mongoose

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #67 on: 11 October 2017, 22:58:49 »
Well, as a Mandrill mech I expect the Predator was more common than other new foreign designs. But I agree it was likely far from common, and given their use of SL mechs possibly not more common than the Crockett. I also agree I too would sooner pair my Kite with a Crockett (C) and use my Predators to back up other 5/8 mechs (though the Kite is common even in front line units, so theycouod still fight side by side)
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Caedis Animus

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #68 on: 11 October 2017, 23:38:27 »
Alternatively, you could go for a point of LBX or HAGR toting vehicles, which would be even cheaper than bringing a mech along, albeit not preferred. But as far as cheap mech options go, I guess the Crockett would be a better choice.
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Luciora

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #69 on: 13 October 2017, 15:19:33 »
Chameleons, Phoenix hawks,  and maybe something faction specific if you wanted to do that?

Given that I own two Crockett minis, I really should find a good use for them. Perhaps a reinforced cadre lance consisting of four recently-graduated cadets that still need in-the-field seasoning, with a fifth 'mech for the veteran instructor that has to ride herd on them. 2 Crockets and 2 TBA mediums(P-Hawks, Crabs, Starslayers?) for the cadets, and some sort of mobile heavy for the instructor. Sound fun?

The_Livewire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: CRK-500*-* Crockett
« Reply #70 on: 16 October 2017, 08:18:10 »
Just found this thread, sorry.

I've a soft spot for the Crockett.  My partner Donna fell in love with it, and other heavies/assaults.  I swear she was a Steiner at heart.  The beast could take a lot of pounding, and keep fighting.  Her biggest enemy was gravity.  One fight we had a city on the map, at long range, she gets up on a level 2 building, long range, and tags me with one of the ER larges with a lucky roll.  I look at the numbers my Highlander needs (we'd both jumped) and sigh.

Then remember the building only has a CF of 100.  One Gauss and LRM 20 flight later...  She was not amused.

My friend Parker painted up a Crockett for her in Steiner Blue for her birthday.  Complete with a little chihuahua head on the leg for her dog Rocky. 

I lost her to a stroke 7 years ago, but still have 'Bindi', her name for the mech.
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