Author Topic: VotW: Hanse MBT  (Read 9608 times)

Scotty

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #30 on: 07 April 2014, 18:58:55 »
There's another bit of deviousness to that specific recommendation.  Hanses are long on the ability to wear down armor but they lack both a big hole puncher's ability to simply smash single locations open (particularly against 'Mechs, which will spread smaller clusters around their locations more readily than tanks will) or really good crit-seeking.  Challenger XVs combine a Gauss rifle with an SB Gauss.  The Challengers open up to start weakening armor, then the Hanses smash into the flank.  Then the Challengers are able to decisively breach and start making a real mess of the guy's internals.

Plasma Rifles deal a single big, 10 point punch to 'Mechs.  That was the standard by which hole-punchers were measured for centuries, so I'd say it holds up.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #31 on: 07 April 2014, 19:16:03 »
Great article, JHB. It's cool to see you doing these again, I still remember your original stuff from a decade ago.

One thing I think is interesting is to compare this with the neighboring CCAF's homegrown tank destroyer, the Predator. They're both turretless, but the Predator focuses on cheapness and speed whereas the Hanse is more expensive and more able to deal with varied threats.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #32 on: 07 April 2014, 19:50:31 »
Plasma Rifles deal a single big, 10 point punch to 'Mechs.  That was the standard by which hole-punchers were measured for centuries, so I'd say it holds up.

True.  For some reason I was thinking of their effects on vehicles there.

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #33 on: 07 April 2014, 20:23:47 »
Something just occurred to me, probably JHB's comment about slamming Hanses into an enemy's flanks:

Between the Hanse's excellent straightline speed and support-style firepower, this tank is just BEGGING to be used with Off-map Movement. Engage the enemy, get him committed to a given front...and then suddenly, Hanse From The Side! >:D
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #34 on: 07 April 2014, 20:59:35 »
Something just occurred to me, probably JHB's comment about slamming Hanses into an enemy's flanks:

Between the Hanse's excellent straightline speed and support-style firepower, this tank is just BEGGING to be used with Off-map Movement. Engage the enemy, get him committed to a given front...and then suddenly, Hanse From The Side! >:D

With hidden unit rules or double-blind (even better), having a Hanse act as a giant Hetzer would be fun too. Some poor Enforcer walking down a street just suddenly bursts into flames and has no idea why.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #35 on: 07 April 2014, 22:08:20 »
With hidden unit rules or double-blind (even better), having a Hanse act as a giant Hetzer would be fun too. Some poor Enforcer Dragon walking down a street just suddenly bursts into flames and has no idea why.
Get it right. ;)
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #36 on: 07 April 2014, 22:22:04 »
Get it right. ;)

Or a Panther... (Substitute with all Kurita designs)

Playing the Hanse with hidden units or strong ECM cover would make it really deadly with the speed it could strike fade away and come in again somewhere else a bit like the SM1 but in something that can handle the return fire

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #37 on: 07 April 2014, 22:48:22 »
Get it right. ;)

Sorry, my old group had an Enforcer that seemed to always find the hidden traps- mines, hidden infantry, etc., so that's always my first thought when it comes to a victim of a hidden unit attack.  ^-^
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #38 on: 07 April 2014, 22:55:25 »
Sorry, my old group had an Enforcer that seemed to always find the hidden traps- mines, hidden infantry, etc., so that's always my first thought when it comes to a victim of a hidden unit attack.  ^-^

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #39 on: 07 April 2014, 23:43:05 »
I'm sort of surprised no one's mentioned it yet, which is making me think I missed something in the rules (even though I know it doesn't fit the artwork).

But what about putting the Plasma rifles in the sponsons?

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #40 on: 08 April 2014, 00:03:15 »
I'm sort of surprised no one's mentioned it yet, which is making me think I missed something in the rules (even though I know it doesn't fit the artwork).

But what about putting the Plasma rifles in the sponsons?

You'd have to give something up to do so.. not that much, really.. probably two or three of the machine guns depending on how the sponsons are factored (I forget if they're counted separately or together, which would have an impact on the whole ton fraction thing).

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #41 on: 08 April 2014, 00:14:52 »
I'd actually go flamers in the sponsons at the very least you could set fires to cover your retreat/your advance

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #42 on: 08 April 2014, 00:34:58 »
I didn't design the Hanse...

I did raise an unholy ruckus at the miss use of an awesome tank name. I think this vehicle is a good tank destroyer. I think it was designed very well within the Dark Age constraints we had.

I just wept at the use of Hanse MBT for the name. Alas it was something we inherited and there was nothing to be done. I think Caleb had a secret loathing for his great grandfather.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #43 on: 08 April 2014, 00:35:39 »
Another tactic for this would be a V-formation,

Put the Hanse at the base, with the wings out and in front, herding things into the middle......honestly, this is to mechs, what the StuG was to infantry.... it's support. It puts out enough anti-vehicle damage to count as a "tank destroyer" versus other vehicles, and can burn down battle armor, or infantry in swathes..... in cover. That alone emulates the dual purpose guns on the StuG.

Use it like one, and stay aggressive... it works fine.

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #44 on: 08 April 2014, 00:44:40 »
I didn't design the Hanse...

I did raise an unholy ruckus at the miss use of an awesome tank name. I think this vehicle is a good tank destroyer. I think it was designed very well within the Dark Age constraints we had.

I just wept at the use of Hanse MBT for the name. Alas it was something we inherited and there was nothing to be done. I think Caleb had a secret loathing for his great grandfather.
Very true, Hanse should have been the name of a Battlemaster equivalent 'Mech or a class of warships, not a tank. The man is too great to have his name attached to a tank. Especially considering he wasn't a tank commander.

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #45 on: 08 April 2014, 00:52:42 »
Heck, if it had been the Turtle Tank of the FedSuns, I'd have been fine. Tanks can be grand machines. This vehicle isn't a tank, it's mobile gun platform.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #46 on: 08 April 2014, 00:53:32 »
I didn't design the Hanse...

I did raise an unholy ruckus at the miss use of an awesome tank name. I think this vehicle is a good tank destroyer. I think it was designed very well within the Dark Age constraints we had.

I just wept at the use of Hanse MBT for the name. Alas it was something we inherited and there was nothing to be done. I think Caleb had a secret loathing for his great grandfather.

Makes me grateful Stone didn't allow his name to be used on the Winston.
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Welshman

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #47 on: 08 April 2014, 01:09:25 »
Makes me grateful Stone didn't allow his name to be used on the Winston.

Now that one is my fault, fluff and stats. Had fun with that fluff.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #48 on: 08 April 2014, 01:40:12 »
I didn't design the Hanse...

I did raise an unholy ruckus at the miss use of an awesome tank name. I think this vehicle is a good tank destroyer. I think it was designed very well within the Dark Age constraints we had.

I just wept at the use of Hanse MBT for the name. Alas it was something we inherited and there was nothing to be done. I think Caleb had a secret loathing for his great grandfather.

Err....the Hanse was introed in 3108 (or so the MUL informs me). This puppy was one of Harrison's. 

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #49 on: 08 April 2014, 01:50:36 »
Everyone is making to big of a deal out of the lack of a turret. Just team it up with a couple of tanks with same speed or something bigger with range to cover the Hanse's flanks, like the Morgan.   

While its far from perfect for a 'MBT,' the Hanse still has enough firepower and armor to make it a bad day for the other guy.
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Welshman

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #50 on: 08 April 2014, 01:51:36 »
Err....the Hanse was introed in 3108 (or so the MUL informs me). This puppy was one of Harrison's.

Didn't anyone ever tell you it's not nice to point out when a Developer is wrong? :)

I still blame Caleb. I wrote him as a lunatic, I maintain my position.

He was a tanker, it's his fault, somehow.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #51 on: 08 April 2014, 02:07:18 »
It can't possibly be Harrison's fault. Harrison was written as having a full beard, and bearded men can do no wrong in life. Caleb, I'm sure, shaved every morning. Charlatan.
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #52 on: 08 April 2014, 02:10:51 »
Didn't anyone ever tell you it's not nice to point out when a Developer is wrong? :)

I still blame Caleb. I wrote him as a lunatic, I maintain my position.

He was a tanker, it's his fault, somehow.

Good enough for me ;D

What was Caleb choice of tank anyhow, can't remember?

Edit: he commanded a Marksman, anything else? 
« Last Edit: 08 April 2014, 02:14:16 by SteelRaven »
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #53 on: 08 April 2014, 03:33:38 »
Good enough for me ;D

What was Caleb choice of tank anyhow, can't remember?

Edit: he commanded a Marksman, anything else?

Marksman is the only tank he's known to have commanded. It's mentioned in one novel (I forget which one) and then again in ER3145
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #54 on: 08 April 2014, 11:48:53 »
Command is such a generous term...
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #55 on: 08 April 2014, 12:25:14 »
Was Mason the true TC? :D
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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #56 on: 08 April 2014, 23:02:11 »
Command is such a generous term...
I am struggling to see the incompetence.

Who looks good fighting a war on two fronts, then being sold out by an ally-come-neutral?

I still think Caleb should have been allowed to save the FS. If only to see the fans sweep the crazy under the carpet in the name of success.

And to keep it on topic, he should have saved the FS while driving a Hanse MBT.

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #57 on: 08 April 2014, 23:57:19 »
That would have been more interesting from a story perspective. I think they went with the easier option of what to do with Caleb, and I have a Magistracy fan friend who is very glad to see him gone. So I can say that even people whom it doesn't effect all that greatly are happy with what was done.

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #58 on: 09 April 2014, 01:24:35 »
I will be the dissenter, has to be one in every crowd right?

To me the Hanse piles on several big negatives into a single design.  I love the Plasma Rifle as a weapon for armor as it gets the big 10 point hit for lighter than a UAC/5 (technically 2 5s), safer than a UAC (no jam or ammo boom) and has many non-mech target bonuses.  I wanted to see a Saladin refit with it or perhaps on a Regulator- alas it was left to my merc's refits to get that sort of chassis.  See a trend?  I think the Plasma Rifle has to go on faster units which have a better chance of dictating range because 15 hexes is IMO a bit short for a main gun.  You see the contemporary heavy tanks mounting weapons like the LB-10X, Gauss Rifle, Light Gauss Rifle, PPC of some flavor or ERLL as main guns.  Which means I think it will be taking more fire, possibly causing it to slow more than the burst can overcome to get into ideal range.

Slower armor tends to get flanked IMO, especially since hitting it in the sides slows or stops it.  The Hanse does have a burst option but it move the standard heavy tank speed.  While I do like, want more of, and heavily use the Tank Destroyers I think they are better as smaller vehicles (under 50t) . . . the Predator is a good example IMO.  A bit faster than possibly needed but that speed allows for the all important facing changes.  With the burst the Hanse (non)MBT hits 8 hexes, which long 5/8 vs 6/9 mech discussions debate the extra hex for movement facing purposes.

For the late 50's a new frontline designed tank could be expected to mount FF armor.  By 3100, for a tank that NEEDS to be in range of the enemy to get its own hits in, lacks a turret and is not really to subtle a hammer . . . not using HFF to get the most armor points for the mass is a bad IC design choice.  I have not examined the sheet (as I do not have it) to see if it was a crit forced choice but . . . I would gladly exchange a LMG or two for the crits to make it HFF.

So IMO the SP Gun is too slow for its main armament and if it stays at that speed lacks the turret to protect itself or exploit its armament.  While the armor is not spread thinner by the turret as someone pointed out, lacking HFF IMO it is under-armored for it's designed purpose.
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Scotty

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Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #59 on: 09 April 2014, 02:23:12 »
not using HFF to get the most armor points for the mass is a bad IC design choice.  I have not examined the sheet (as I do not have it) to see if it was a crit forced choice but . . . I would gladly exchange a LMG or two for the crits to make it HFF.

So IMO the SP Gun is too slow for its main armament and if it stays at that speed lacks the turret to protect itself or exploit its armament.  While the armor is not spread thinner by the turret as someone pointed out, lacking HFF IMO it is under-armored for it's designed purpose.

So, by your reasoning, every single combat vehicle that doesn't mount HFF but has the space for it is a bad design and/or under-armored?  Jeez, that's a boring standard.
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