Author Topic: VotW: Hanse MBT  (Read 27000 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
VotW: Hanse MBT
« on: 07 April 2014, 12:49:03 »


I got bored, so I came back. Sucks to be you.

After the good response the Schildkrote article got, I kind of felt like ducking back in and doing another article sometime. But on what? A test run with a few vehicles this week gave me the answer in the form of one of the more... unusual... vehicles produced in 3145 (and that's saying something), the Hanse. It's good, it's bad, it's... interesting. Let's give it a look.

First and foremost, the background. Much like last week's Schildkrote, the Hanse (named for... ah... I can't imagine why the Federated Suns used that name for a tank, anyone? ;) )was intended for frontline work, and due to its problems was relegated to militias and other second-line action. And, just like its Lyran cousin, this no doubt has made for some happy militias- maybe. It depends on whether the militia commander is smart or not, I suppose. Anyway, the idea for the AFFS was to create a next-gen tank that would succeed the old Manticore, and in some ways they've created a very powerful vehicle to do the job. It just is missing a certain something.

As always with VotW, let's cut the Hanse open and look inside. On 75 tons, a 4/6 frame is pretty vanilla- not overly fast, but not shockingly slow either. Since this is intended for advances against enemy lines, it's manageable anyway. A supercharger gives the ability to make sudden dashes up to eight hexes per turn, which gives the vehicle the sudden lunge-forward ability that could really make life or death choices easier in bad terrain, or to just suddenly be up in someone's face in open terrain. The engine is an XL, which is good, because all the weight we saved got put right back into heat sinks. We'll look at that later.

Next, the armor test. The VotW AC-20 is loaded, and it's in for a long day- as a 75 ton front line tank should be, the Hanse is a brick, with eleven tons of ferro-fibrous armor. While advancing, the crew can take comfort in sixty-one points of armor on the fore- four Gauss slugs won't crack that armor, and three of the AC's shots have only made the tank angry. This is good news, since the vehicle is intended to always face towards its enemy- again, more later on that. But it's no less of a slouch elsewhere either- the sides have 48 points, plenty enough to hold off flanking attacks for a while, and even the rear holds 40, enough to hold off the test cannon twice before causing problems. Killing a Hanse won't be fun. And of course, the ammo load is protected by CASE because it's 3145 and who designs a tank without that anymore?

However. There's a problem. You may have noticed that we didn't take the test gun to the turret. And that is because there isn't one. Wha? An MBT with no turret? Why did... huh? Yeah, I know. It's still armed to the teeth, it's just... well... sad.

Remember those heat sinks we found earlier? We needed them, because up front on a Hanse is a pair of mighty plasma rifles. Shy of maybe the LB-10X, maybe no weapon in the game is a more fearsome weapon for a tank to use against its tracked brethren, and this thing packs two. Twenty rounds each is more than enough for most large engagements, and gives the vehicle an awesome punch, delivering a PSR and heat to Battlemechs and a ridiculous hammerblow against just about everything else ever conceived. This is fun, seriously. The backup weapon to the rifles is a light AC-5, because it's not a Davion unit without an autocannon on it. Two tons of ammo allow you to switch between specialty types- I'm not much of a light AC fan, but there is some utility here. I'd much rather see it replaced with an LRM-10 or something along those lines, but as a backup weapon to the rifles it's not a bad choice. All of this, again, is faced forward because turrets are for chumps.

Well, okay, just MAIN turrets. Two side-sponsons give us the concession to sanity on the Hanse's full-frontal design, with a pair of light MGs in each. Half a ton of ammo feeds all four guns, plenty enough for a battle. This is plenty to cause infantry to go away and not bother the Hanse, but little more than humorous to battle armor or flanking vehicles or Mechs. Being on sponsons though, their arcs are very good, at least.

So... the obvious problem here. This is obviously a tank intended to go face-first into the enemy's lines, using the supercharger to get a burst of speed and rush right up in someone's face. But with only the most basic side defenses, what then? Anything in front of a Hanse is in for a very rough day, but anything NOT in front of it is in for an easy kill- it can't defend itself once it's in amongst the enemy as designed. That's bad- and the AFFS thought so too, pulling the Hanse off the front lines and into the rear areas. Militia crews ended up with a tough, powerful tank that requires some careful use- and that's hardly a bad thing to have, really. Mercenary units have ended up with a good number of these beasts as well, and- if the MWDA game is to be believed- can be found in service with House Steiner (via the Stormhammers), the Steel Wolves (and whatever mutations they've gone through), and amusingly Clan Jade Falcon- stop and think about that for a moment, how Falcon-mindset is this tank? Falcon armor crews must really love their Hanses.

So, using a Hanse requires a careful eye, and it sure helps to keep it near friends with turrets so someone can play bodyguard to your beast. Mobility hits should cause you to immediately pull back with what movement you still have- if you get immobilized, you've had it, no one is going to pass up an easy kill like a tank that can't do anything in reply but hold up a 'HELP' sign.

Fighting it is pretty obvious too, in theory at least. Flank that thing with units that are fast enough to get into its side and rear arcs, and hit it with cluster weapons until it stops moving. Pegasus, Harassers, Plainsmans, Cavalries, all good choices for the job. Anything you can do to avoid being in front of it is, naturally, a good thing. Battle armor swarming is another good idea, since it lacks the ability to really hurt them other than pings from the LMGs- probably a good way to get your own Hanse once you patch up the holes and hose out the interior. Come to think of it, that would be a good explanation for the Falcons' Hanses. Ew.

Anyway. Go nuts, chat it up. No miniature of the Hanse has been made for CSO to show off, but if you really want to see them in 3D the MWDA sculpt is actually a very nice one.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #1 on: 07 April 2014, 12:56:22 »
It's a superheavy StuG or Hetzer, and that's exactly how I plan to use it. 8)
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #2 on: 07 April 2014, 13:00:43 »
It's a superheavy StuG or Hetzer, and that's exactly how I plan to use it. 8)

I admit that I kept thinking of the old Swedish S-tank as I looked over the Hanse here.



The Hanse mini, when it comes out, needs to have an arrow decal on each front fender and the words 'THIS END TOWARD ENEMY' on it somewhere as well with another forward-arrow.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11991
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #3 on: 07 April 2014, 13:01:44 »
its a battletech equivalent of the Stridsvagn 103. an MBT exploiting low profile for defense, resulting in limited fields of fire. high mobility, but a design that works best from defensive stances.

you'd want to use the Hanse the same way as its swedish cousin. strategic offense, tactical defense. use your high mobility to get into firing positions that let you hit a target unawares and from cover, then relocate to a new position. while your guns are not super long ranged, you have enough range that you ought to be engaging from 6+ hexes out.. just eat the medium and long range to hit penalties, you want to keep the enemy from getting in your face. the sponsons are there to keep enemy infantry and BA from getting too close.

edit: darn slow connection... hellbie got the comparison in before i could post, yet i typed it first. oh well.
but i wil lsay, that visually this is closer ot the VT tank..
« Last Edit: 07 April 2014, 13:04:30 by glitterboy2098 »

Alexander Knight

  • Peditum Generalis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4960
  • O-R-E-O
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #4 on: 07 April 2014, 13:10:08 »
The Hanse mini, when it comes out, needs to have an arrow decal on each front fender and the words 'THIS END TOWARD ENEMY' on it somewhere as well with another forward-arrow.

So...like a 75 ton claymore?  I *like*it!  :D

Really though, the Hanse screams "pack hunter" to me.  Never operate them alone, so even if you flank one, his buddy is about to light up your life.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #5 on: 07 April 2014, 13:21:16 »
Oh, absoloutely. Run Hanses in wing-pairs, with one going after the target, and the other going after that threat to the lead tank.

Y'know, a well-run FedSuns armored force must be a true beauty to behold. Use Ziblers as scouts and bushwhackers to flush out enemy units, Krugers for skirmishing duties and guarding flanks(or harassing enemy flanks), Hanses as the main punch of the force...all to push or pull the bulk of the enemy force into that ravine where the Destriers are waiting. }:)
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #6 on: 07 April 2014, 13:30:43 »
Another good article, and another offbeat vehicle.
Not as frighteningly efficient as the Schildkröte at it's given niche, but it's got merit.
Have a heart for suboptimal vehicles.  :)
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

God and Davion

  • Excelencia Steiner
  • Administrator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5961
  • This place for rent
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #7 on: 07 April 2014, 13:48:09 »
  When I had a look at the TRO I wasn't happy. I saw that almost every design was flawed with something unsuspected. I saw the tank and had a look at the weapons. Cool, twin plasma rifles are very good weapons, a LAC/5 with precision ammo to hit light units and some MGs. Where's the snafu?  I saw the armor and the supercharger... it is a nice  tank. The same question appeared and, then I found it lacked a turret. Bravo! Snafu detected! It is a flaw not seen since ye olde TRO2750. Have a look at the Davion tanks of TRO 3067 and compare with the tank and the eye rolling will began.
 
  A great MBT was turned into an average tank... to add insult to injury it has 2 mighty useful sponson turrets with LMGs to kill everything that gets into its flank. The tonnage of the sponson turrets and LMGs could be used to put a turret but then the tank would be cool. It is a shame because it could have been a mighty MBT and right now it doesn't fit the bill.

  Right now it is a tricky and somewhat useful tank with a big "FLANK ME" sign stuck on it. This means that a conservative player would have a bad time trying to steer away from combat and getting into optimum range of his weapons. The Supercharger would be tricky to use. Finally, a more aggressive (and reckless) player will have fun using the supercharger and attacking enemies until somebody began to use the brain and uses a SRM-6 or LBX10 in the flank of the tank. Then the MBT with XL and supercharger will become a not so useful deterrent with a narrow arc of fire. Great article, great snafu.
We are back again... but we never forget Albatross

False Son

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6461
  • Kot Blini
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #8 on: 07 April 2014, 13:59:26 »
The funny thing about the Hanse, to me, is that while everyone is putting it down because of the lack of a turret, I actually think that was a good idea.  Having to spread the armor out along a turret location isn't appealing.  Turrets lock all the time, and the additional bulk of mounting the guns in the turret means a comprimise somewhere else. 

Side sponsons are a decent enough alternative.

All i'm saying is that this thing is a flying brick by tank standards, with a nasty punch.  In an urban setting it is a possible 5/9 lightning bolt. 
TOYNBEE IDEA
IN MOViE `2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER


Destroy what destroys you

Alexander Knight

  • Peditum Generalis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4960
  • O-R-E-O
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #9 on: 07 April 2014, 14:07:43 »
And now I'm thinking of a "Top Gun" line for the Hanse:

"Never leave your wingman."

<gets the mental image of a Hanse opening up the supercharger while "Highway to the Danger Zone" is blaring>

Fallen_Raven

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3719
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #10 on: 07 April 2014, 14:09:34 »
I was literally typing a request for this tank when someone mentioned it in the scheduling thread! Glad to see someone else shared my interest.

I'm not convinced that a turret is needed to improve the Hanse. The very lack of a turret lets you herd your enemy, because nobody wants to risk a double shot of Plasma Rifle with a LAC 5 chaser. Since everyone is going to maneuver out of your arc, you can focus on the biggest problem and let your support clean up the rest.
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

The Battletech Forums: The best friends you'll ever fire high-powered weaponry at.-JadeHellbringer


JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #11 on: 07 April 2014, 14:14:43 »
Oh, absoloutely. Run Hanses in wing-pairs, with one going after the target, and the other going after that threat to the lead tank.

Y'know, a well-run FedSuns armored force must be a true beauty to behold. Use Ziblers as scouts and bushwhackers to flush out enemy units, Krugers for skirmishing duties and guarding flanks(or harassing enemy flanks), Hanses as the main punch of the force...all to push or pull the bulk of the enemy force into that ravine where the Destriers are waiting. }:)

And wait, let's not forget the Sorteks slipping into the rear and hitting your rear while you're pinned in place by the charging Hanses!  O0

There's no question that there's bonuses to not having a turret sometimes, but for a vehicle designed to run right down the enemy's throat, it's a big risk. I want to say that partnering it with other contemporary vehicles of similar movement capabilities to cover it is the way to go, but there isn't much that comes to mind, really other than... er... the Manticore that it was supposed to replace. Damn. That leaves us with either wasting the Hanse's speed bursts by sticking with heavy vehicles like Sorteks and Marksmans for defense, or rushing ahead and still getting flanked and crippled before the big guys can help.

But, like I said, the idea of the Falcons using this thing makes me grin. It charges in with guns blazing, and to hell with being flanked- who cares? A Falcon charges into the face of the enemy, after all! Did we lose the tank? Who cares, it's a tank, screw it! The more I think about it, the FedSuns could do worse than setting up a trade agreement with Malvina for as many Hanses as they'd like. ;)
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #12 on: 07 April 2014, 14:19:44 »
As a Falcon player, I approve of this. As a RotS player likely to face said tanks, I still approve.

I'm not convinced that a turret is needed to improve the Hanse. The very lack of a turret lets you herd your enemy, because nobody wants to risk a double shot of Plasma Rifle with a LAC 5 chaser. Since everyone is going to maneuver out of your arc, you can focus on the biggest problem and let your support clean up the rest.

A very good point. Much like minefields, or the use of torpedoes in BFG or Leviathans, sometimes the best usage of a weapon isn't to hurt the enemy, but to encourage him into moving in ways you can predict, thus letting you hurt him more.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #13 on: 07 April 2014, 14:32:00 »
As a Falcon player, I approve of this. As a RotS player likely to face said tanks, I still approve.

A very good point. Much like minefields, or the use of torpedoes in BFG or Leviathans, sometimes the best usage of a weapon isn't to hurt the enemy, but to encourage him into moving in ways you can predict, thus letting you hurt him more.

I think I see what you're saying there. In a way it becomes sort of like a 3145 equivalent to the Demolisher or Hunchback- an area denial weapon. You have several options available to you for movement, but several involve ending up in front of an angry Hanse, so you get herded into moves that don't involve plasma for lunch- and end up in the face of something else instead. Makes sense to me.

I did have a thought for this thing though. That LAC just still rankles me- it had to match the MWDA sculpt, so I get why it's there, but it just feels like that's seven tons (ammo included) that could have been used for something else. So I started thinking... Narc beacon, two tons of ammo, C3 slave, a fore-mounted LMG, and another half-ton of ammo for the LMGs? Still keeps the sculpt intact (that could be a Narc!), gives it the ability to connect to a network, assist inbound missiles (we're charging into the enemy's face anyway, right?)... and all we lose is a pretty questionable weapon system.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #14 on: 07 April 2014, 14:54:04 »
Maybe it's the Marik in me, but I like the flexibility of the LAC. It's not in the do-anything league of a well-supplied LRM rack, but they still have plenty of options. My personal favorites are precision rounds for obvious reasons, and flak shells for dealing with enemy VTOLs or WiGEs. The Liaos did just get a fancy new scout/strike WiGE, so being able to keep that off your back is probably a good thing.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #15 on: 07 April 2014, 16:00:38 »
Maybe it's the Marik in me, but I like the flexibility of the LAC. It's not in the do-anything league of a well-supplied LRM rack, but they still have plenty of options. My personal favorites are precision rounds for obvious reasons, and flak shells for dealing with enemy VTOLs or WiGEs. The Liaos did just get a fancy new scout/strike WiGE, so being able to keep that off your back is probably a good thing.

You might want to invest in a couple of Kinnols to help screen these guys.  The AFFS does have some.  If you're not willing to spring for fancy-ass Republic imports, the Vedette's fuel cell variant would also be capable of keeping up, although its armor is as bad as ever so keep it out of the immediate fire fight.  The Manticore LB-X can't keep up with a charging Hanse but it does have the armor to survive in that kind of environment provided the Hanses are attracting enough fire.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #16 on: 07 April 2014, 16:16:18 »
Given that looking through TRO 3145 FedSuns always puts me in a Desert Fox kinda mood, I think of those options I'd prefer the Vedette. I like the idea of Davion's tank forces being lighter than their opposition on average, but using the resulting tactical and strategic mobility to gain the upper hand in the long run.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Taurevanime

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #17 on: 07 April 2014, 16:19:24 »
It's a neat tank that requires a skilled hand to get the most out of it. Either use units to herd the enemy into it's line of fire, or use the Hanse to move units into the line of fire of other units. It also very clearly highlights that during the Republic era the AFFS had a more defensive mindset. But the supercharger shows that they still cared about aggression and speed in the fight.

As for the LAC, I don't mind them so much. They are a little on the heavy side I find personally. I really just wish that there was an alternate ammo that was more effective against infantry. (In general that is, with the plasma rifles infantry in front of the Hanse MBT is dead anyway) Load it up with flak and precision or all of one of those two if you know you are going to be dealing with a lot of airborne threats or none at all.

You might want to invest in a couple of Kinnols to help screen these guys.  The AFFS does have some.  If you're not willing to spring for fancy-ass Republic imports, the Vedette's fuel cell variant would also be capable of keeping up, although its armor is as bad as ever so keep it out of the immediate fire fight.  The Manticore LB-X can't keep up with a charging Hanse but it does have the armor to survive in that kind of environment provided the Hanses are attracting enough fire.
What about the Manteuffel for a flanking unit for the Hanse? It can keep up with charging units or use it's extra speed over a none charging Hanse to move into a better covering position. It has a turret and some really nasty guns to convince people to be elsewhere. And some of them come with a C3 so they can provide spotting for other units even further back.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40755
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #18 on: 07 April 2014, 16:23:18 »
What about the Manteuffel for a flanking unit for the Hanse? It can keep up with charging units or use it's extra speed over a none charging Hanse to move into a better covering position. It has a turret and some really nasty guns to convince people to be elsewhere. And some of them come with a C3 so they can provide spotting for other units even further back.

Not a bad idea. You could have the Hanses on point as shock tanks, with the Mantueffels following immediately behind to capitalize on the damage they do and watch their flanks at the same time.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Dragon Cat

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7827
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #19 on: 07 April 2014, 16:23:25 »
Really nice article

Me personally I think the Hanse is just the Tank the AFFS needs right now.

They are on the back foot the Hanse is more a Tank Destroyer than an MBT.  They are good for holding the line stopping the enemy in there tracks making them rethink their ideas.

If the AFFS get back on their feet the Hanse is the centre line of a slow march forwards obviously it needs support but since when do you only have one type of unit on the field?

I'd have probably been happy with this tank 3/5 drop the supercharger (6 instead of 5 meh) beef up the sponsons with some flamers and SRMs make this tank something you don't want to annoy
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #20 on: 07 April 2014, 16:39:30 »
Not a bad idea. You could have the Hanses on point as shock tanks, with the Mantueffels following immediately behind to capitalize on the damage they do and watch their flanks at the same time.

Absolutely.  The reason I suggested the units I did was specifically because they all have an LB 10-X to cover the flak role but if that's not one of your criteria, the Manteuffel has several excellent configurations to choose from as a complement to the Hanse.

False Son

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6461
  • Kot Blini
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #21 on: 07 April 2014, 16:52:26 »
I did have a thought for this thing though. That LAC just still rankles me- it had to match the MWDA sculpt, so I get why it's there, but it just feels like that's seven tons (ammo included) that could have been used for something else.

I dunno.  7 tons, matching range brackets to the plasma rifles.  You're not going to do much better with 7 tons of ballistics.
TOYNBEE IDEA
IN MOViE `2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER


Destroy what destroys you

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #22 on: 07 April 2014, 17:11:15 »
I dunno.  7 tons, matching range brackets to the plasma rifles.  You're not going to do much better with 7 tons of ballistics.

True enough. I guess I just kind of feel like it's seven tons that could be better used- my Narc idea above, the LRM I suggested in the article... maybe a targeting computer in place of the LAC to make the plasmas that much more of an 'oh god, why am I on fire' problem... There's a lot of options that make life interesting beyond a LAC-5's performance, I guess. But, that's just me.

Going to the discussion of what works well with it, I forgot about the Manteuffel completely since it's not a Davion-designed tank, but... they do use it in good numbers, and it's a perfect solution to the problem. I approve! And with its pod-based weaponry, it can be changed to cover the Hanse's advance based on the terrain and situation- hell, as an Omni it can even bring along some Cavaliers or Pumas to keep enemy BA from visiting. I wish I'd thought of this before- well done!

The other one that occurred was the Musketeer- a quartet of them zipping around with two platoons of Hanses makes for a powerful advance, and the hovercraft can quickly move to engage troublesome flankers to keep the Hanses moving. But, I'm also willing to admit to an irrational love of the Musketeer, so I try to cram it into any Davion force I come up with.  ^-^
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #23 on: 07 April 2014, 17:13:35 »
I dunno.  7 tons, matching range brackets to the plasma rifles.  You're not going to do much better with 7 tons of ballistics.

Not really, although if you want to be a bit of an ass you could swap a plasma rifle and the LAC/5 for a couple of LB 10-Xs and three tons of ammo.  You lose the hideous power of a double-barreled plasma rifle but 20 LB-X clusters is going to make a real mess of someone's treads.

And between their own domestic production and imports from places like the Republic, Davion has a lot of good conventional assets depending on what exactly you're trying to do.  The militias are probably still using the Challenger Mk XV, for instance.  I think there could be some serious hammer-and-anvil tactics in the making for your militia commanders combining those assault tanks with a lance of Hanses to play beater.
« Last Edit: 07 April 2014, 17:15:53 by Moonsword »

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #24 on: 07 April 2014, 17:19:46 »
Not really, although if you want to be a bit of an ass you could swap a plasma rifle and the LAC/5 for a couple of LB 10-Xs and three tons of ammo.  You lose the hideous power of a double-barreled plasma rifle but 20 LB-X clusters is going to make a real mess of someone's treads.

And between their own domestic production and imports from places like the Republic, Davion has a lot of good conventional assets depending on what exactly you're trying to do.  The militias are probably still using the Challenger Mk XV, for instance.  I think there could be some serious hammer-and-anvil tactics in the making for your militia commanders combining those assault tanks with a lance of Hanses to play beater.

I think you just redesigned the Moltke. Well done!  ;D

There IS something to be said for using big stuff like Challengers, Alacorns, and Haseks to smash into the enemy line, and once the battle is engaged use Hanses as a 'second-wave'- now that the enemy is busy with other problems, the Hanses can slam into them full-force without as much worry about being flanked.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Auren

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 892
  • Well.
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #25 on: 07 April 2014, 17:21:18 »
  A great MBT was turned into an average tank... to add insult to injury it has 2 mighty useful sponson turrets with LMGs to kill everything that gets into its flank. The tonnage of the sponson turrets and LMGs could be used to put a turret but then the tank would be cool. It is a shame because it could have been a mighty MBT and right now it doesn't fit the bill.

  Right now it is a tricky and somewhat useful tank with a big "FLANK ME" sign stuck on it. This means that a conservative player would have a bad time trying to steer away from combat and getting into optimum range of his weapons. The Supercharger would be tricky to use. Finally, a more aggressive (and reckless) player will have fun using the supercharger and attacking enemies until somebody began to use the brain and uses a SRM-6 or LBX10 in the flank of the tank. Then the MBT with XL and supercharger will become a not so useful deterrent with a narrow arc of fire. Great article, great snafu.

I fail to see how the lack of a turret leads to a SNAFU. The main thing behind the Hanse is that is more durable then if it had a turret. Turrets lock up. Armor overall is burned. Hell, the tank is tough enough to survive two point blank HGRs to the rear. If you got that turret on there, you'd sacrifice protection all around AND make your weapons vulnerable.

Sure its untraditional but Hanse was never a traditional opponent now was he?  ;)

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #26 on: 07 April 2014, 17:27:58 »
I think you just redesigned the Moltke. Well done!  ;D

There IS something to be said for using big stuff like Challengers, Alacorns, and Haseks to smash into the enemy line, and once the battle is engaged use Hanses as a 'second-wave'- now that the enemy is busy with other problems, the Hanses can slam into them full-force without as much worry about being flanked.

There's another bit of deviousness to that specific recommendation.  Hanses are long on the ability to wear down armor but they lack both a big hole puncher's ability to simply smash single locations open (particularly against 'Mechs, which will spread smaller clusters around their locations more readily than tanks will) or really good crit-seeking.  Challenger XVs combine a Gauss rifle with an SB Gauss.  The Challengers open up to start weakening armor, then the Hanses smash into the flank.  Then the Challengers are able to decisively breach and start making a real mess of the guy's internals.

Taurevanime

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1778
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #27 on: 07 April 2014, 17:38:43 »
Going to the discussion of what works well with it, I forgot about the Manteuffel completely since it's not a Davion-designed tank, but... they do use it in good numbers, and it's a perfect solution to the problem. I approve! And with its pod-based weaponry, it can be changed to cover the Hanse's advance based on the terrain and situation- hell, as an Omni it can even bring along some Cavaliers or Pumas to keep enemy BA from visiting. I wish I'd thought of this before- well done!
Not a Davion tank? Aside from the German name they were always more prominent in AFFS forces and the only factory to ever produce them is Crofton, which lies deep in the heart of the Federated Suns. It always struck me that they gave it a German name because at the time the Federated Suns was ruled by Tharkad. And so appealing to Lyran nationalism got it into production over competing designs.

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #28 on: 07 April 2014, 17:47:24 »
Not a Davion tank? Aside from the German name they were always more prominent in AFFS forces and the only factory to ever produce them is Crofton, which lies deep in the heart of the Federated Suns. It always struck me that they gave it a German name because at the time the Federated Suns was ruled by Tharkad. And so appealing to Lyran nationalism got it into production over competing designs.

I admit I always think of it as a Lyran tank in my head. Apologies.

Davion, Steiner, they all kind of look the same from the cockpit of a Summoner, you know? It's a long way up, and my eyesight isn't great.  ^-^
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: VotW: Hanse MBT
« Reply #29 on: 07 April 2014, 17:50:55 »
Great, now I'm having the mental image of a seeing eye Kit Fox.  Or maybe an Elemental with a light probe on the weapon mount.

 

Register