Author Topic: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4  (Read 219864 times)

JenniferinaMAD

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #750 on: 20 June 2017, 07:14:18 »
So, here's a quandry. I've got a mechwarrior "missing in action", and, frankly, I'd like to rescue him (seeing as how he's a badass elite mechwarrior and all). But, there's not really any mechanism in AtB to handle that. How have people been dealing with that kind of situation (aside from just setting the guy's status back to normal in MekHQ, which feels mildly cheap)?

I believe the AtB rules have ransom rules for taking prisoners and releasing them? If the enemy captures your soldier, they might well ransom your pilot back to you at the same or similar prices (at the end of the contract, of course).

Schugger

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #751 on: 22 June 2017, 04:14:53 »
Logistics admin is responsible for ordering parts, I always make sure they're the most experienced, as an inexperienced logistics person will be unable to order some parts til a contract ends sometimes.

As far as I understood it, if you set your "skill used for odering parts" in the campaign options to "administration", all your personal with administration skill can be used to order parts. MHQ starts rolling for the highest skilled administrator first for aquiring parts working it's way down to the bottom as you are try to order more parts. So basically, if you want to train your low level administrator by aquiring parts (25 successes for one XP) you have to buy a lot of stuff to get your low level admin to a higher rank.
Assigning different jobs to your admins (i.e. administration, logistics, command, transport) ist just for getting better contracts.

BTW, i just have returned continuing my 2950 campaign after seeing a lot of videos on youtube about the new upcoming Battletech game. I paused for about two years and had some doupts if I can handle all the necessary stuff to upgrade to the newest version of MHQ, but really no sweat.
A big (!) thanks to the guys who continue put so much time and efford into the developement programm.
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Snimm

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #752 on: 22 June 2017, 08:22:53 »
As far as logistics go, I like to play around with which skill is required to acquire parts.  If I'm not in a contract, I'll use Administration.  If I'm in a raid or guerilla war contract, I'll use Scrounge, in an effort to make another skill useful and have greater variety among characters.  Plus, you can't normally acquire parts in a guerilla contract.  This at least gives you a chance to find something useful occasionally.  At least, I think it does.
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bluedragon7

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #753 on: 22 June 2017, 16:03:28 »
So, here's a quandry. I've got a mechwarrior "missing in action", and, frankly, I'd like to rescue him (seeing as how he's a badass elite mechwarrior and all). But, there's not really any mechanism in AtB to handle that. How have people been dealing with that kind of situation (aside from just setting the guy's status back to normal in MekHQ, which feels mildly cheap)?
I always have VTOL and a squad or platoon of commandos for exactly that purpose

dragonkid11

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #754 on: 23 June 2017, 01:44:46 »
After playing a couple years in-universe campaigns, I felt like I should turn off option for night and day modifier or maybe weather too.

Because having moonless night cause my enemies to not be able to move at all and the only thing I can use to do anything is mechs with jumpjets, limiting my options to quite a short list.

And for some reasons, I kept getting night missions all the time. So it's really annoying...
« Last Edit: 23 June 2017, 01:50:34 by dragonkid11 »
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Tegyrius

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #755 on: 23 June 2017, 05:45:38 »
Night missions in heavy urban are the absolute worst.
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dragonkid11

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #756 on: 23 June 2017, 20:15:39 »
Map with loads of mud is horrible too.

Literally the only way to get through anything is with jumpjets.
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Snimm

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #757 on: 23 June 2017, 23:13:23 »
Yeah, it's to the point where you should probably prefer piloting skill to high gunnery skills so you can avoid making a mistake where you're under fire from most of the bot's guns.  Even a well-armored lance just doesn't last long when it can't move much.

Myself, I like to play with many optional rules, including weather and planetary conditions.  I'm not afraid to use ground-bound units, but I will usually ensure that at least half the units in a lance can jump, and that ALL my scout elements are jump capable (in case they get to reinforce a given battle).  This way I at least have SOME offensive capability in night time.

Remember, too, you can put searchlights on your units, and on some of the bot's units.  I will often put searchlights on scouting-type bot units so that there's actually some weapons fire going on.  You can torch woods and buildings to create light and deny cover.

Lastly, however, you can turn off weather and planetary conditions.  Feel free to do so!  The idea of Against the Bot is that you play it the way you want to play it.  Change rules you don't like, come up with your own subsystems where you want more realism or options in your campaigns (like finding a way to use Scrounge), experiment!
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NickAragua

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #758 on: 13 July 2017, 13:30:10 »
You can get around the "moonless night" and "pitch black" movement restrictions by using reckless movement on your mechs. It requires a piloting roll, but if you need to get somewhere in a hurry without jump jets, you can do so at a minor risk.

Question:

Within the AtB rules, when promoting officers, do non-mechwarrior combat personnel (vehicle guys, infantry) count as personnel for the purposes of "maximum 1/3 rounded down can be assigned officer rank"?

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #759 on: 13 July 2017, 19:49:03 »
Probably, but you shouldn't need more than one officier per lance/platoon same as mech formations. For infantry it would really depend on how you organize. If you follow normal doctrine each platoon of conventional infantry should have a Lieutenant, or 3 platoons to a company (2 Lieutenants and 1 Captain). If you are using Campaign Operations or Alpha Strike formation building you would have a Lance of 4 platoons or 3 Sergeants and 1 Lieutenant.

I use the older method of 3 platoons per company rather than 12 platoons per company.

neoancient

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #760 on: 15 July 2017, 09:12:06 »
Apparently Campaign Operations doesn't actually mean what it clearly says:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53961.0

Quote
There is no change in the systems.

A standard IS Squad is 7 Troopers and is equal to 1 BattleMech, Tank or ASF- This size unit is not a playable unit in standard TW play

A standard IS Platoon is 4 squads or 28 Troopers- This is the standard "Unit" or miniature used in TW play. The only "Unit" which represents multiple individual "Units" in standard game play.

A standard IS Company is 3 Platoons or 84 Troopers

Platoon and Lance are interchangeable words in BattleTech. Platoon is usually used for infantry and armor and Lance for BattleMech and Aerospace. Infantry

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #761 on: 15 July 2017, 18:46:31 »
That section was probably a direct copy from Alpha Strike Companion as there is a fair bit that looks like a copy paste from AToW or ASC

firedude1218

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #762 on: 26 July 2017, 14:38:44 »
I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I'm new to the forum and can't find out why I can't look at the new AtB rules. I'm a new fan of battletech and really love doing AtB campaigns, but I've got some pretty out of date rules. Whenever I click on the link, it directs me to the forum board, or tells me I'm not allowed to look at or download attachments in this board.

Hammer

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #763 on: 26 July 2017, 15:36:18 »
I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I'm new to the forum and can't find out why I can't look at the new AtB rules. I'm a new fan of battletech and really love doing AtB campaigns, but I've got some pretty out of date rules. Whenever I click on the link, it directs me to the forum board, or tells me I'm not allowed to look at or download attachments in this board.

Can't address the forum issues, but I think the admins have it set at you need 10 posts to be to do anything.

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firedude1218

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #764 on: 26 July 2017, 15:39:12 »
Thank you kindly! Will be sure to post stuff. Maybe that will fix it.

NickAragua

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #765 on: 28 July 2017, 12:42:06 »
Since Princess appears to handle aircraft on ground maps just fine, I was wondering if there are any plans on updating AtB rules to include:
a) The possibility of aircraft in allied/enemy forces
b) The possibility of aircraft in player forces
?

I'm thinking something like:
"The player can have active one lance or faction-appropriate unit of aircraft (aerotech or conventional) per rank of commander strategy, with no lower bound on the number of aircraft per lance. Such a unit must be led by an officer. The player may deploy this air lance once per battle per week as reinforcements - the arrival turn is calculated by the same means as any other reinforcements."

Also:
"An opposing force may include aircraft. Any time reinforcements are rolled, there's a (some percentage, maybe 25% by default), there's a chance that a ground-based reinforcement lance is instead replaced by an air lance of equal weight units. Additionally, any time the player deploys an air lance as reinforcements, there is a chance (again, let's say 25%) that the opfor deploys a reinforcement lance of aircraft of roughly equivalent weight, if they haven't deployed one already."

What do you guys think?

JenniferinaMAD

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #766 on: 29 July 2017, 00:44:09 »
Princess can handle aircraft now? Sweet! How good is it at avoiding flying off the map, though? AtB maps tend to be on the small side, as far as aero assets are concerned.

firedude1218

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #767 on: 29 July 2017, 03:37:28 »
Do you have any suggestions for aircraft? Even with really heavy ones laden with bombs, I still can't get them to be useful, since they can make one, maybe two runs before I have to send them away for a while, and they often come back too late to do anything.

NickAragua

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #768 on: 29 July 2017, 18:39:39 »
Based on my experience, she'll readily fly aircraft off the map, but as long as you have "Allow Aircraft to Return" (or whatever it's called) checked off in the game settings, she'll bring them back. I just did some testing and she's... not terribly effective with aircraft. Like, she'll just fly them off the board (I used a 34x32 board, a 17x16 board even I can't stay on the board). So maybe we hold off on generating AI-controlled air lances for now. I have seen her attack aircraft in larger air-to-air fights, so who can say, really.

As far as good aircraft usage, it's tricky. I haven't really gotten the hang of it entirely yet, probably 80 to 90% of my fights involving aircraft, they get shot down (or overheat and crash). So far, I've had success loading them up with HE or cluster bombs and dive-bombing to get one or two kills on tightly clustered units by dropping all the bombs simultaneously. Of course, I'm playing mostly 3025 right now, so there may be better options available later on. The trick is not to expect it to be as effective as a battlemech afterwards - unless the bad guys are all over the map, I can usually only manage an attack once every two or three turns. Which is why I'm suggesting that they be made available as a support unit rather than part of a player's primary lances.
« Last Edit: 29 July 2017, 18:43:38 by NickAragua »

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #769 on: 29 July 2017, 20:24:39 »
Do you have any suggestions for aircraft? Even with really heavy ones laden with bombs, I still can't get them to be useful, since they can make one, maybe two runs before I have to send them away for a while, and they often come back too late to do anything.

Princess barely handles anything that flies.  Just don't.  She'll crash, freeze up, take hours to take turns. Fire on dumb things not fire at dumb things.

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firedude1218

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #770 on: 30 July 2017, 16:57:44 »
As far as good aircraft usage, it's tricky. I haven't really gotten the hang of it entirely yet, probably 80 to 90% of my fights involving aircraft, they get shot down (or overheat and crash). So far, I've had success loading them up with HE or cluster bombs and dive-bombing to get one or two kills on tightly clustered units by dropping all the bombs simultaneously. Of course, I'm playing mostly 3025 right now, so there may be better options available later on. The trick is not to expect it to be as effective as a battlemech afterwards - unless the bad guys are all over the map, I can usually only manage an attack once every two or three turns. Which is why I'm suggesting that they be made available as a support unit rather than part of a player's primary lances.

That sounds about like what I've been doing, and your suggestion sounds like a good one. I often can't justify the cost of aerospace, since they are expensive to buy, transport, or repair, since you need an entirely separate crew for them, both logistically and on the field, and they're so easy to kill. One stray shot, and that's all she wrote, if they miss their pilot check.

bluedragon7

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #771 on: 30 July 2017, 17:51:38 »
I tend to be quite good with it, possibly because so far Princess is not very good at countering them
First and possibly second attack run as a cluster bombing, while the enemy is still grouped nicely, then switch to strikes.
Considering the speed of the units I have them appear in turn 0-3, so I often still have the bot in a larger group, two fighters can easily halve the enemy BV in a couple of turns

firedude1218

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #772 on: 31 July 2017, 15:30:23 »
Sounds like cluster bombs are really the only way to go, then. Does anyone use any of the other types of bombs?

bluedragon7

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #773 on: 31 July 2017, 15:40:40 »
Other bombs would work, but as long as Princess groups together a cluster will be like an artillery strike hitting multiple units,..if your fighters arrive later, then  you might have to pick single targets anyway and normal bombs offer more damage.
I still prefer to unload all bombs in the first few passes to gain maneuverability back

JenniferinaMAD

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #774 on: 01 August 2017, 01:47:10 »
With decent gunnery, HE bombs are the way to go, as they concentrate damage better.

Southernskies

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #775 on: 01 August 2017, 06:40:33 »
I use cluster bombs with the occasional inferno bomb.  Best use is clearing out the horde of vehicles that turn up sometimes.  They tend to group up that even the misses will hit something. 

Level bombing spreads the damage out, but also generates more crit rolls.

Bonepart

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #776 on: 14 August 2017, 20:03:33 »
Wow this has changed a lot. I haven't messed around with MegaMek/MekHQ since 2012 but the new Battletech game drove me to download the latest version and I have been having a blast with the Against-the-bot integration! You guys have been doing amazing work!

My campaign has been going pretty well, but I have some questions.

1st is how exactly unit rating is determined and some of the quirks with it. I did a long Garrison Duty contract that went okay and got me to a B rating. I decided I was ready to tackle maintenance so I turned that on and took at Recon Raid contract, 3 months long. Since I had a lot of extra 'mechs I mothballed a bunch to save on the maintenance and it dropped my rating to a C! I was counting on the B rating to let me use the Field Workshop site instead of In the Field for repairs.

Looking at the unit rating report for Quality I have a 20, Average skill rating of Veteran. When I unmothball some of my units it jumps to ASR of Elite, for 40, bumping me to the B. I have 6 Regular, 10 Veteran, and 1 Elite. Average of Veteran seems right, not sure why the mechs are bumping me up. Should I change to the Campaign Ops rating system?

2nd is about the TO&E. How should I organize that? Only put 'mechs in the lances I'm going to deploy? Should I have a 'standby' force for all my other units?

Sadly the only rules books I have are Total War and Tech Manual. I would like to get some of the others eventually  :D

Read the last 10 pages or so of the thread was fun. I think trying to use some aerospace support would be neat, I might have to try to figure that out in the future.

Edit: I forgot a couple of questions. I see IS2 being mentioned and I'm not sure how to tell what mechs and equipment that tech level applied to. In the same vein my campaign started in 3067 and is currently in 3069. I set Max Tech Level to Advanced, but wasn't sure what all equipment fell into each tech level.
« Last Edit: 14 August 2017, 20:51:33 by Bonepart »

Schugger

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #777 on: 15 August 2017, 02:45:45 »
In the report tab in MHQ there is a breakdown for your unit rating and how it is calculated.
There is a threshold number for your unit rating, but I don't know the exact numbers. I am pretty sure that the threshold for A-rating is 120. Accepting a Raid or Guerilla contract when your unit rating has just increased is very risky - one lucky crit on your better MechWarriors can drop your unit rating down which are the tied around your ankles when it comes to maintainance ;)
I have only accepted short term Raid contracts before I got B rating and had aquired a Dropship.
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Bonepart

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #778 on: 15 August 2017, 10:43:29 »
Yeah, I saw the Unit Rating report, was hoping to find out what the rules governing that actually are. A quick google search didn't seem to have them listed anywhere, and it seems a waste to purchase a book that I'm guessing is largely outdated, if I can even get it anymore outside of used.

I think the Recon Raid was a mistake. I had just spent 6+ months custom refitting my heavy/assault lance with C3 computers and increased firepower and wanted a short test contract as a field trial. Seems choosing the field new gear against the Word of Blake is going to turn out to be an extremely stupid decision. As I saw mentioned here in the thread my lance is a very heavy assault lance with two assaults (a Devastator and Zeus) and two heavies (Crusader and Cestus) and I'm seeing why that was discouraged.

I'm still learning so I haven't been very good at accepting battle results and tend to replay them. It's especially annoying when Assaults get headcapped by gauss rifles in pitch black conditions.

My light lance had a really bad time of it as well in their first mission. Seems I need to read the fiction. I had gotten an idea that the Word of Blake weren't very friendly with the Jihad and all, but man they are kind of scary on the field, even as a bot!

NickAragua

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against the Bot Thread #4
« Reply #779 on: 15 August 2017, 12:21:56 »
The unit rating rules depend on if you're using the "Field Manual: Mercenaries" or "Interstellar Ops" rating. I have no idea about the Interstellar Ops rules, and I forget the exact Field Manual Mercenaries rules, but part of it is dependent on the proportion of high tech units you have, which is why mothballing and reactivating certain mechs will affect your rating. "IS1" is basic 3025 stuff - standard PPCs, lasers, autocannons. None of this "double heat sink", "ferro fibrous armor" and "ER PPC" stuff. If you have a mech that's got the advanced tech as part of your TO&E and you take it out and mothball it, you affect your proportion of IS2 mechs and thus your Dragoons rating.

Your TO&E affects the payment you get offered for contracts. So, before accepting a contract, you want to put every mech you've got there, otherwise you'll have contracts that pay zip.

As for contract difficulty, you need to stick close to lance weight limits. 130/200/280/380. Don't go "a little bit over", because then your employer will send your "just over medium" lance against a bunch of assault mechs. The other important thing is to keep a real close eye on enemy skill levels when taking contracts. Having learned the hard way, I will almost never accept a contract against enemy skill levels higher than regular. Had a contract against veteran opposition, and just got completely schooled each mission. Lose a mech here, lose a mech there... got lucky and the last mission was a base attack though so I auto-won when I won that, even though the contract score was like -8.

The other thing that helps is to properly manage your lance deployment. It might be tempting to deploy your lances on "scout" missions, but then you get 60% odds of a fight each week. Just deploy the minimum number of lances on scout missions, and try "defend" or "training" instead for fewer fights.

AtB also features a *lot* of tough terrain missions in crap conditions, so I tend to favor jump jets. Otherwise, you're either making PSRs for reckless movement or moving two hexes a turn.