Author Topic: MotW: Kingfisher  (Read 63884 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #60 on: 19 July 2015, 19:10:43 »
Still, it's probably more common among the Blood Spirits (which is probably also why the Steel Vipers decided to base their Blood Asp on it). As for the Steel Vipers they, like most Clans, favor the Gargoyle if only due to accessibility.
FYI, STAR ADDERS made the Blood Asp.  Not the Vipers.
Me, I'm betting whoever designed it is the clan that captured the Wolverines factory that made that 90t predecessor to it.
The biggest reason I think people pick the Bears it its mentioned with them & they are 1 of 2 clans noted as having factories on Strana Mechty.
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Rage

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #61 on: 19 July 2015, 19:15:21 »
With the Horses that sort of makes sense . . . they were discouraged away from it, lol.

Seriously, who would it be outside the norm to have been the designer of the Kingfisher?  I will grant the Ice Hellions, maybe the Blood Spirits due to getting a hold of Omni tech, the Mandrills because cooperation, maybe the Coyotes for being too fast in a assault and . . . ?

If you go with the theory of it being based off the Pulverizer, the best bet would be Clan Snow Raven (reparations for Dehra Dun) or Clan Coyote due to the Coyotl being painfully obvious as a tarted-up Omni Mercury II.

If you go with Assault 'Mech loving Clans in general, look no further than Clans Coyote, Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar and Star Adder. Though the Adders would be a massive longshot as they based the Blood Asp on the Kingfisher due to how much the Blood Spirits use it.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #62 on: 19 July 2015, 19:16:43 »
FYI, STAR ADDERS made the Blood Asp.  Not the Vipers.
Me, I'm betting whoever designed it is the clan that captured the Wolverines factory that made that 90t predecessor to it.
The biggest reason I think people pick the Bears it its mentioned with them & they are 1 of 2 clans noted as having factories on Strana Mechty.

Yeah, that was a brain fart on my part. Though you could have pointed that out a little less rudely. ::)

Hellraiser

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #63 on: 19 July 2015, 19:29:29 »
Seriously, who would it be outside the norm to have been the designer of the Kingfisher?  I will grant the Ice Hellions, maybe the Blood Spirits due to getting a hold of Omni tech, the Mandrills because cooperation, maybe the Coyotes for being too fast in a assault and . . . ?

Early Omni = Yotes or Wolves
Strana Mechty = Bears or Wolves
SFE = Vipers, Wolves, & Yotes
Assault Mech = Bears, Yotes, Jags
Notes as being used by = Bears & Jags
Super Traders & none of the pre-58 Omni's are theres? = Sharks

Unlikely = Speed & Omni = Hellions & Spirits.

No one else has a leg up or down = Adders, Burrocks, Cats, Cobras, Falcons, Horses, Mandrills, Ravens, Scorps

It could be all but those 2 unlikely options, but, I'd say its probably one of the 6 above them for the reasons listed.
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Hellraiser

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #64 on: 19 July 2015, 19:32:07 »
Yeah, that was a brain fart on my part. Though you could have pointed that out a little less rudely. ::)
That was not the intent.
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worktroll

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #65 on: 19 July 2015, 19:50:49 »
It does have a Coyote feel to it - before they stopped wasting pod space on speed demons like the Kingfisher ;)
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #66 on: 20 July 2015, 02:06:51 »
With the exception of the Hellions, all the Clans have shown themselves to be willing to design and use mechs that don't fit their standard favorite paradigm.
The first two Coyote omnis were a 7/11 40 tonner and a 5/8 60 tonner, I don't think a ;/6 assault would be that far out of line.  The Lyran wall of steel included a lot of Banshees and Zeuses, after all.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #67 on: 20 July 2015, 03:33:57 »
I don't really see anything about it that indicates that the Ravens built it.  Given its age, just about anyone could have originally designed it.  Actually, it could even be a Coyote design.

Ever since we learned about the pulverizer, I started viewing the kingfisher as an evolved version of that earlier design. Same mass and movement profile, and the primary configuration has some similarities. Since the Ravens still claim (according to Tech Manual) the Pulverizer as their first indigenous design, I could see them turning out an omni version under a new name to retain its capabilities while finally distancing themselves from the legacy of the original. Not that I have any proof though...
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Rage

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #68 on: 20 July 2015, 13:29:08 »
Ever since we learned about the pulverizer, I started viewing the kingfisher as an evolved version of that earlier design. Same mass and movement profile, and the primary configuration has some similarities. Since the Ravens still claim (according to Tech Manual) the Pulverizer as their first indigenous design, I could see them turning out an omni version under a new name to retain its capabilities while finally distancing themselves from the legacy of the original. Not that I have any proof though...

Considering that TPTB decided to have the Ponies do the initial legwork on the Stormcrow solely due to their having made the Corvus (yet kept the Summoner as a Jade Falcon 'Mech despite the Sharks having made the Thresher), that's certainly a possibility.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #69 on: 17 March 2017, 11:39:00 »
We really didn't have an otW article on this?

This thing is awesome!  I'm about as big a fan of clan assaults as a player in this game can be.  I prefer the 4/6 assaults and pocket assaults over just about anything else.  The Kingfisher is the bully of the class.  It has good configurations (I even like the H).  It has configurations designed for different scenarios.  Awesome mech!

As much as I love the more guns than sense approach on Blood Asps, Night Gyrs, and Nova Cats, those mech ALWAYS roll with at least one Kingfisher.  Two 'Fishers make a mean anchor with 3 of them (or an Executioner).  If there's no zell involved some of the long range versions of the gunboats with the in your fAce 'Fishers can be devastating.

The Bears have the toughest clan assault and the most mobile clan assault... CHEATERS!!!!!

I second the SC variant becoming real.  Be nice for the Bears to have one that could run and with the Executioner.

Great write up. Now if only we could get a new model for it...

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #70 on: 17 March 2017, 14:13:55 »
During one of our RP events on the fan board section, I was Khan for the Blood Spirits. During a Trial my Kingfisher stood alone against four 'Mechs, the rest of my force having gone down. She was down to her ER Llaser in the CT. Then the OpFor dropped like flies against her. If they only could just get a good hit on her battered body! That armless Kingfisher won the trial for me.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #71 on: 17 March 2017, 23:18:36 »
The last Kingfisher I got to play with was only eliminated after orbital bombardment was call on to destroy it  O0.  Needless to say I like it in pretty much any form.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #72 on: 17 March 2017, 23:49:26 »
During one of our RP events on the fan board section, I was Khan for the Blood Spirits. During a Trial my Kingfisher stood alone against four 'Mechs, the rest of my force having gone down. She was down to her ER Llaser in the CT. Then the OpFor dropped like flies against her. If they only could just get a good hit on her battered body! That armless Kingfisher won the trial for me.

I think, during the same Fan Grand Council, I had a run in with three Kingfishers. I figure it's been more than ten years and it's OK to tell it now....but I was asked by the GMs to play a Smoke Jaguar raider in one of the little raids they had going on. I selected what I thought was a solid Jaguar medium star that included an Ebon Jaguar, a Nova, a Mist Lynx and two other 'mechs I forgot. The BV was handed over to the Ghost Bear Khan and he responded with... three Kingfishers piloted by his PC and two of his best Keshik warriors. After a grueling battle, my intrepid band of Smoke Jaguar remnants finally won. The last 'mech standing was the Nova with one arm and three CT points left. I got lucky on one Kingfisher, but the other two I had to bludgeon to death. And this was only the most notable run in I had with the Kingfisher. It was very popular in that FGC.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #73 on: 18 March 2017, 21:59:36 »
Has any one modified the model to represent another variant?

Heavyguard

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #74 on: 22 March 2017, 14:12:07 »
Has any one modified the model to represent another variant?

IamClanWolf did one - http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48974.0

Siberian-Troll has done several along with some photobashes for other ones - http://siberian-troll.deviantart.com/art/Kingfisher-01-478800800 http://siberian-troll.deviantart.com/art/Kingfisher-02-478800808

Sjhernan3060

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #75 on: 03 April 2017, 22:12:29 »
Fantastic info thanks!!

Hellraiser

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #76 on: 09 April 2017, 14:49:24 »
During one of our RP events on the fan board section, I was Khan for the Blood Spirits. During a Trial my Kingfisher stood alone against four 'Mechs, the rest of my force having gone down. She was down to her ER Llaser in the CT. Then the OpFor dropped like flies against her. If they only could just get a good hit on her battered body! That armless Kingfisher won the trial for me.

The last Kingfisher I got to play with was only eliminated after orbital bombardment was call on to destroy it  O0.  Needless to say I like it in pretty much any form.

When I first saw it, I was like, great, a clan Cyclops, oversized engine, lack of firepower, its going to suck.

Then the Prime configuration was my 1st opponent in a ToP.
I nearly didn't qualify to be a warrior because that thing would NOT die to my modified Warhawk-C w/ AMS.

Now I have nothing but respect for the Kingfisher & use it and the Direwolf in my Assault formations more than any other mechs for loads of massed Stamina & Firepower.
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Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #77 on: 27 April 2017, 09:44:44 »
I'll put in an argument that the Kingfisher could be a Jade Falcon creation:
They were an early OmniMech adopter (the second actually), and they favor mobility. And in a way (toughness, SFE), the 'Mech reminds me of the Wakazashi, the early Clan assault 'Mech created by Jade Falcons.
Admittedly this is not very definitive. And if the Kingfisher were a Falcon creation, they certainly didn't keep using it.

That said, we lack information. TRO Golden Century will probably enlighten us. Considering how the Clans regarded the OmniMech a pretty big deal, there is awfully few early OmniMechs known so far. And there are long periods with no new designs, like the 36-year period between the Kit Fox and Mist Lynx or the 13-year period between Fire Moth and Kingfisher.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #78 on: 27 April 2017, 12:52:47 »
I'll put in an argument that the Kingfisher could be a Jade Falcon creation:
They were an early OmniMech adopter (the second actually), and they favor mobility. And in a way (toughness, SFE), the 'Mech reminds me of the Wakazashi, the early Clan assault 'Mech created by Jade Falcons.
Admittedly this is not very definitive. And if the Kingfisher were a Falcon creation, they certainly didn't keep using it.

That said, we lack information. TRO Golden Century will probably enlighten us. Considering how the Clans regarded the OmniMech a pretty big deal, there is awfully few early OmniMechs known so far. And there are long periods with no new designs, like the 36-year period between the Kit Fox and Mist Lynx or the 13-year period between Fire Moth and Kingfisher.
It also has a bird-themed name.  Granted that's highly circumstantial, but the name would make more sense on a Falcon mech than, say, a Hell's Horse or Star Adder one.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #79 on: 27 April 2017, 12:55:37 »
Well, Blood Kite is also a bird name and it's a Blood Spirit 'Mech.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #80 on: 27 April 2017, 13:02:26 »
I've always kind of wondered if a couple of Clan names got mixed up from that era. The Cauldron-Born was named for the "unstoppable zombies of Irish myth", but it's not an overly durable Mech- the Kingfisher certainly is, but its name seems more akin to an avian-styled design like the Cauldron-Born is.

Probably not really the case, since they debuted in different books, but it always struck me that the Kingfisher's name didn't really fit it well.
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Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #81 on: 27 April 2017, 13:07:46 »
I've always kind of wondered if a couple of Clan names got mixed up from that era. The Cauldron-Born was named for the "unstoppable zombies of Irish myth", but it's not an overly durable Mech- the Kingfisher certainly is, but its name seems more akin to an avian-styled design like the Cauldron-Born is.

Probably not really the case, since they debuted in different books, but it always struck me that the Kingfisher's name didn't really fit it well.

Someone busted this myth in the Cauldron-Born thread.
Short version: Both 'Mechs first appeared in different products and neither book shared any writers, and Kingfisher predates the Ebon Jaguar by a year or so anyway.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2017, 13:18:09 by Empyrus »

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #82 on: 27 April 2017, 13:15:14 »
Yeah, I noted that in my post (not the reference to the Cauldron-Born thread, but that they came from different products). That said, we know that books often are planned out years in advance (see: Jihad series), so it's possible both were in the works before either of their first appearances debuted.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #83 on: 27 April 2017, 13:20:59 »
Is it even for sure that "Kingfisher" is the Clans' own name for the mech rather than the Inner Sphere's Reporting Name?

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #84 on: 27 April 2017, 13:22:01 »
Yeah, I noted that in my post (not the reference to the Cauldron-Born thread, but that they came from different products). That said, we know that books often are planned out years in advance (see: Jihad series), so it's possible both were in the works before either of their first appearances debuted.
Isn't Ebon Jaguar the Clan name? With Cauldron-Born being the Inner Sphere call sign?
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Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #85 on: 27 April 2017, 13:22:12 »
Yeah, I noted that in my post (not the reference to the Cauldron-Born thread, but that they came from different products). That said, we know that books often are planned out years in advance (see: Jihad series), so it's possible both were in the works before either of their first appearances debuted.

The original Jihad idea was pretty different from the final result, no? While the ideas may predate their release by years, this does not mean details are worked out well before release.

Also, i seem to recall that someone mentioned the Kingfisher appeared in some magazine first, before appearing... Black Thorns? Anyway, if so wouldn't this reduce the possibility if it being planned out?

That said, the Kingfisher has more zombie-like visual style while the Cauldron-Born brings mind a bird...

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #86 on: 27 April 2017, 13:24:38 »
Is it even for sure that "Kingfisher" is the Clans' own name for the mech rather than the Inner Sphere's Reporting Name?
Pretty sure it is the Clan name. The Shadow Cat is another case of a 'Mech lacking a reporting name completely.

Isn't Ebon Jaguar the Clan name? With Cauldron-Born being the Inner Sphere call sign?
Yes.

Oddly, the Clans adopted the reporting name to the point it is perhaps more common than the name Ebon Jaguar.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #87 on: 27 April 2017, 13:54:26 »
Isn't Ebon Jaguar the Clan name? With Cauldron-Born being the Inner Sphere call sign?

It is, but unless someone is aware of info I'm not we didn't know the Clan name for the machine for a long time. (And still don't for the Kingfisher, whether or not it's an IS name or Clan-given)
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+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #88 on: 27 April 2017, 14:11:45 »
Isn't Ebon Jaguar the Clan name? With Cauldron-Born being the Inner Sphere call sign?
Yes to both. With the in-universe explanation being that the 'Mech was still so new when the IS name got used the Clans liked it as much (particularly for the non-Smoke Jaguars) that the IS name ended up sticking in Clan use.

Going back to the Kingfisher, it's possible that one of the two bird-Clans (Falcons, Ravens) designed it and named it ignoring the lack of bird-like features or the fact it doesn't really match the description of the bird itself: "small to medium sized birds with large heads, long, sharp, pointed bills, short legs, and stubby tails" None of that really matches the 'Mech. It could just be they liked the name.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #89 on: 27 April 2017, 16:06:08 »
I believe the Kingfisher is probably more associated with heraldry than snazzy birds of prey.
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