Tell me about..the Wildkatze ASF

[Alan Grant]

I've almost completely overlooked the Wildkatze ASF until now. I'm curious what people think of it.

[Weirdo]

Nice bird. Decent thrust, and that Blazer definitely lets it punch above its weight. My only real concern is that reflective or not, that armor is just too light. The Wildkatze may be fast, but it's not so blazing fast that it won't take a shot or two, and even reduced-strength PPCs(and an ever-growing variety of lasers) are going to punch straight through that wing armor, to say nothing of the ubiquitous 5-point clusters thrown around by anything mounting missiles of just about any kind, plus cluster cannons, and any AA artillery hits are likely to leave it shredded. I'll admit that I'm not sure where the tonnage would come from, but six points on each wing is all you'd need to transform this fighter from 'good' to 'excellent'.

[marauder648]

Its a nasty little interceptor for sure, the Blazer gives it one hell of a wallop as Weirdo said, his MML's also allow it to tickle at long range whilst adding to the punch as short range.  But, she's a massive glass cannon, sure the reflective stuff is good but if she gets clipped by something big then she'll crumble and crumble quickly.  Very much a fly by the seat of your pants fighter.

[Alan Grant]

Does the -2S version improve on the armor much?

[Weirdo]

No record sheet, so I can't tell you. Given how little is needed, I'd say the odds are good. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the designer might have overlooked this. Most of the designers are human, after all.

If the -2S does boost the armor in the way we're hoping, we actually have a nice little team going here. The -2S has the armor to weather the initial salvos, and while losing the big punch hurts, you gain multiple smaller hits at range, letting you threshold lighter interceptors and most conventional fighters. By hurting their interceptors and drawing off a salvo or two from the heavier birds, you can create an opening for your complement of -1S kitties to punch through into close range and use their blazers on the heavy stuff you're trying to stop.

Of course, I could be talking out my tailpipe with these ideas...we really need to get Trace in here. :)

[Kit deSummersville]

No record sheet, so I can't tell you. Given how little is needed, I'd say the odds are good. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the designer might have overlooked this. Most of the designers are human, after all.

If the -2S does boost the armor in the way we're hoping, we actually have a nice little team going here. The -2S has the armor to weather the initial salvos, and while losing the big punch hurts, you gain multiple smaller hits at range, letting you threshold lighter interceptors and most conventional fighters.

Well, if it survives the way it was submitted, 51/41/41/27.

[Weirdo]

That'll do it. 8)

[sillybrit]

Overall the Wildkatze is a pass for me. Weirdo already pointed out the armor issue and added to that there's the following negatives for me:
- Sub-standard fuel.
- The light engine only saves you about 1M CBills compared to a XLFE, but you lose 3.5t extra payload. Personally, I prefer a high/low (XLFE/SFE) mix of designs, with the LFE being neither fish nor fowl.
- The binary laser doesn't really gain you much for the added investment compared to a LL, LPL, PPC, etc. LLs, etc are already capable of thresholding the vast majority of armor arcs on canon ASFs, and the few arcs they can't, but blazers can, belong to heavy fighters that will trash a Wildkatze. Sure, they do extra damage, but is the 2 extra points compared to a standard PPC, for example, really worth the 6 extra heat and 2 extra tons? As one alternative, a PPC and an ERML do more total damage at the same range for less heat and tonnage.

 

[Maelwys]

On the other hand, doesn't the Binary laser let them still Threshold designs that are packing reflective armor? Sure, the damage is reduced to 6 points on the binary laser, but that still lets it Threshold anything that has up to 50 points of armor, where standard large laser would be reduced to only being able to Threshold something with no more than 30 points of armor.

[worktroll]

It's one of the ugliest ASF I've seen, and I've seen the original Clan OmniFighters. And not ugly in a good way. Reminds me of a prolapsed dog.

Seriously, Steiners. You replace the sublime Door Wedge of Tinfoil Speedy Doom with ... this? At least the Leaguer's Picaroon looks like something from Space Pirate Harlock, but in a good way.

W.

[sillybrit]

On the other hand, doesn't the Binary laser let them still Threshold designs that are packing reflective armor? Sure, the damage is reduced to 6 points on the binary laser, but that still lets it Threshold anything that has up to 50 points of armor, where standard large laser would be reduced to only being able to Threshold something with no more than 30 points of armor.

Yes, and a PPC will threshold anything up to 40 points of reflective, but look at the designs with reflective and it makes little difference. They're either still immune to being thresholded by even the blazer (eg. Simurgh, Rondel, Cutlass, Koroshiya) or they'll be thresholded by the PPC (and some, the LL too) over most or all of their arcs (eg. Wildkatze, Tomahawk CX-11, Thrush 'Nanook', Transit 'Glare', Chippewa 'Gladstone'). The three ASFs that get new variants with reflective in 3150 NTNU are all very light designs and from the hints in their fluff, they'll probably end up in the latter category too.

Sure, it's possible to design a fighter with reflective that neatly has 41-50 armor on all facings to justify opting for a blazer, but the key point would still stand: even a LL is still capable of thresholding the majority of ASFs.

And then we have the PPC+Capacitor combo, which unlike ground usage gets to fire at full charge every aerospace turn. I don't like the fail effects of rolling a 2 myself, but some like it and it can outperform a blazer for less mass and heat if a single large hit is desired.

[Alan Grant]

It's one of the ugliest ASF I've seen, and I've seen the original Clan OmniFighters. And not ugly in a good way. Reminds me of a prolapsed dog.

Seriously, Steiners. You replace the sublime Door Wedge of Tinfoil Speedy Doom with ... this? At least the Leaguer's Picaroon looks like something from Space Pirate Harlock, but in a good way.

W.

Looks-wise, the way the wings are constructed (general shape of the wings, position beneath the cockpit jutting nearly straight out from the airframe, shape of the aircraft's nose and cockpit) kinda reminds me of a WW2 era monoplane fighter. If you can't see it, looking at the art, pretend there's a propeller where the binary laser is.

Also try to picture the Wildkatze from the side-profile, and compare that to the side profile of a WW2 monoplane fighter. In terms of the relative positions of the cockpit, the binary laser (the propeller) and the wings.

I really think the artist may have drawn inspiration from that.

[UnLimiTeD]

I really don't think it looks that bad.
Also, let's just all agree the Blazer isn't a particularly good weapon. With the tech available nowadays, makes me wonder if it'd be a good choice to make a version with a Heavy Laser and extra freezers.
Is the plane even in common use with the Sternensturm available?

[Weirdo]

It's definitely built to look like a 40s-era fighter, and it's definitely hideous to look at. And that's coming from a guy who's utterly baffled when people call the A-10 ugly. Even if/when IWM makes a mini for this plane, I think it's one I'll always proxy.

Of course, the Lyrans at least have the consolation of getting the Lucifer III in the same book. Talk about your pretty planes... [drool]

[Alan Grant]

I actually really like the -40s era look, and the looks of this particular bird, but I guess I'm weird.

I suspect I'm going to like the second variant more than the original. More armor, more fuel, more efficient primary weapon, AMS (especially useful given the reliance on reactive armor). I haven't even seen its sheet but I just sense that its the better version that addresses the issues that people are bringing up here.


In the question of how rare/common it is. Broke out FM: 3145.

In the Lyran Commonwealth Aerospace Light fighter RAT in FM: 3145, the Wildkatze (both variants appear here) occupies 6 slots (7, 9, 10, 12, 15 and 18).

The Sternensturm occupies the 13 and 14 slots.

Actually, by sheer number of times it appears, the Wildkatze is the most common ASF in that light ASF RAT. The Seydlitz comes in second at 4.

Of course RAT's aren't really the determination of much, but to my mind it definitely suggests that the Wildkatze is fairly common in lightweight Lyran ASF units.

[Kit deSummersville]

The blazer was my first proposed version (which had to meet some criteria based on art and assigned size). The other two were an X-Pulse laser with more armor and a TarComp or a HVAC-5 with more armor. Both of those went 9/14 and had XL engines.

[Maelwys]

Yes, and a PPC will threshold anything up to 40 points of reflective, but look at the designs with reflective and it makes little difference. They're either still immune to being thresholded by even the blazer (eg. Simurgh, Rondel, Cutlass, Koroshiya) or they'll be thresholded by the PPC (and some, the LL too) over most or all of their arcs (eg. Wildkatze, Tomahawk CX-11, Thrush 'Nanook', Transit 'Glare', Chippewa 'Gladstone'). The three ASFs that get new variants with reflective in 3150 NTNU are all very light designs and from the hints in their fluff, they'll probably end up in the latter category too.

Sure, it's possible to design a fighter with reflective that neatly has 41-50 armor on all facings to justify opting for a blazer, but the key point would still stand: even a LL is still capable of thresholding the majority of ASFs.

And then we have the PPC+Capacitor combo, which unlike ground usage gets to fire at full charge every aerospace turn. I don't like the fail effects of rolling a 2 myself, but some like it and it can outperform a blazer for less mass and heat if a single large hit is desired.

Sure, its not the best use of tonnage, but it does provide some bonuses, while showcasing tech that hasn't been used much, which was the point of Prototypes. Could it be refined so its the optimum? Of course.

Its also interesting in that it allows the Wildkatze to Threshold even the armored bricks that the Eisensturm and Morgenstern are.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Lemme see according to BT wiki, 2S's Light engine and downgrade of Blazer into ER Large "allowing more room for the additional improvement to its armor, fuel, weaponry and ammunition. These would include a third 5-tube Multi-Missile Launcher and an Anti-Missile System. "