Author Topic: MotW: Vulture IV  (Read 14753 times)

JadeHellbringer

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MotW: Vulture IV
« on: 25 August 2016, 12:20:26 »

"We can't all do the big-arms thing, we'll look like a squadron of bloody Spitfires!"

Hi.

So, I haven’t done one of these in a while, but since one of these just came across my workbench to build it got me thinking about the design. And as I so often do, my first stop for research was the Fan Articles area to see if anyone’s done an analysis of the machine. Alas, no such luck. So, if no one’s done it, I’ll throw myself on the sword and make a one-day comeback. Let’s talk about the Vulture IV, hereafter referred to as the Howard The Duck- wait, we can’t call it that? Fine, Vulture IV. Lawyers…

So, the first thing to do here is to get the obvious out of the way. There’s no way around comparisons to the original, much-beloved Mad Dog Omnimech that served with distinction in the Clan invasion, along with more than a few conflicts before and after that point. All four of the heavy Omnimechs we saw in TRO:3050 got updated models in the Dark Age era, with varying degrees of change made. The Vulture’s changes are far more basic than those of the Mad Cat or Loki, at least on the inside- externally, the machine’s look is radically different, yet still very much recognizable as related to its father design- the back-canted legs, hunched-over birdlike form, missile racks often found in the side torsos, etc.- the basics haven’t changed, it just learned a few new tricks. Where the Mad Cat went with a crazy new engine, and the Loki dropped speed to become a heap of guns with feet poking out, the Vulture (and Thor) decided not to mess with success.

So why make a new Vulture at all? Well, the Sea Foxes (or whatever they call themselves this week) are, as ever, interested in selling arms. And with other classic Clan Mechs being redesigned, it only made sense to come up with a new version of the Vulture to sell to anyone who could rub two coins together. Note that this means the design shares lineage with, but has no relation to, the Vulture Mk.III built by the Ghost Bear Dominion- actually, this design stays closer to the original than the Bears did with their version. Among the changes they DID make were to make the previously-anemic torso much beefier, moving the small ‘waist’ to a position to the rear of the body and angling it to make it a difficult target, and other minor changes that have no effect on the design in terms of gameplay.

We find that the 60-ton Mech still has the same old engine under the hood, a 300XL that moves Ducky here to a perfectly respectable 5/8 movement curve. When the Clans invaded in 3050 this was awe-inspiring speed for a heavy Mech, something the Inner Sphere had a great deal of trouble reacting to, but by now this is a pretty standard setup for a Mech this size. No new XXL motor or any of that, which means durability- a Vulture IV can lose a side torso and still toddle off towards a repair bay, something the new Savage Wolf can’t claim as easily. This also keeps costs down- an important consideration for the Foxes when it comes to sales. After all, an XXL motor costs as much as a whole Star of decent Clan mediums, while this is (by Clan standards) a bargain design- which means it finds its way to more hands.

The original Vulture had a modest amount of armor, enough to take a few hits and keep going but not enough to stand up to heavy weapons for very long. With most configurations intended to stay back and cause problems form a distance, that wasn’t as big of a problem as it could have been with more close-range oriented designs (hello, Loki!), but it was definitely the least-appealing aspect to the Vulture. With their upgrade, the Foxes clearly wanted to fix that problem- and went with new technology to do just that. Where the original packed eight and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, the new Ferro-Lamellor armor is used here- and not only uses that tougher, heat-resistant material, but adds six more tons of it. This allows Ducky to stand up to a hell of a lot more punishment than before- no small consideration, as new weapons and equipment on the modern battlefield make the old design’s thin armor even more problematic than before. While it provides less armor per ton, it reduces the amount of damage a weapon can cause (and thus provides a net gain) while also being invulnerable to treats like Mech tasers. Placement is fairly generic, with 9 points up top, 30 points in the center torso, 20 on the sides, 20 more in the arms, 28 in the legs, and a rear of 10 in the center and 8 in the rear (so don’t let anyone back there, as standard).

Weaponry remains the focal point- where the old Vulture was fragile, but moved quickly and packed a previously unheard-of punch for a Mech this size, this feels a little more tame due to the advances of time and technology. We actually LOST three tons of pod space, but most configurations feel like a Vulture- missiles are the priority weapon in most layouts. All versions carry at least one ammo-free weapon as well, a lesson no doubt learned from use of Vulture C configs in the Jihad/Wars of Reaving turning out badly. Or DID they learn anything...? Let's see where things go a bit haywire.

We start with the Prime, which feels very familiar to fans of the Vulture A. An ER PPC’s hellish power takes up the right arm, with an aircraft’s worst nightmare- an LB-5X- mirroring it in the left, just like the older design. The side torso have SRMs in them, but less this time- where the original packed three SRM-6 racks in each side, the Duck has only two due to the lost pod space. However, a pair of ER small pulse lasers now sit in a chin mount (similar to the Mk.II and Mk.III Vultures) as a useful anti-infantry deterrent- no small consideration for a Mech intended to close in on an enemy, particularly in the Dark Age era of combined arms warfare. One ton of ammo for the LBX means picking an ammo type and sticking with it (cluster, DUH) and an anemic two tons is shared by the four SRM racks. Powerful, but short-legged, this config is best used when you have access to ammunition-loading facilities near the front- otherwise you’ll find that PPC is your only friend very soon.

An interesting departure is the A, which doesn’t have a very clear analogy in the previous Omnimechs’ repertoire. A large pulse laser- long one of the Clans’ most devastating weapons- takes up that right arm mount, with a big Ultra AC-10 and its two tons of ammo stuffed in the left. (The author’s hatred of putting heavy ballistic weapons on a mid-sized chassis knows no bounds!) The missile racks, normally the Vulture’s signature, are reduced to a pair of LRM-5s in each side, fed by a ton of ammo to each pair for a fairly average LRM bombardment loadout. Two ER small lasers take up the chin mount as an afterthought. The author has no idea what the intent of this design is- the missiles are too few to subject a target to any real threat, the cannon takes up too much weight for too little output… it isn’t a bad Mech, but it lacks any clear-cut role. The LRM-5s do suggest that loading up a ton of your favorite flavor of Thunder LRM might be entertaining though, if you’re a Vulture IV buyer who enjoys that kind of thing. (Paging House Liao…)

The B starts looking much more familiar- THIS is the Vulture we remember, with a big LRM rack in each side! The ER PPC from the Prime takes its place in the right arm again, but the left now holds a paltry medium pulse laser. The ER small lasers from the A remain in the chin mount. The massive reduction in weight put into that left arm mount means the missile bays are much more powerful than configuration A could boast- twin Streak LRM-15s will throw down about the same average damage per salvo as the LRM-20s on the Vulture Prime a hundred years earlier. Ammunition problems again rear their ugly head though, limiting each launcher to eight salvos- while the Streak system means these all will hit, of course, the fact that you only have eight salvos will hurt in anything longer than a brief skirmish. Perhaps the Foxes are making their money off selling ammunition haulers these days?

Config C was always the oddball of the original Vulture’s early configs- where the others relied on missiles to make their money, that one stuffed in two big Gauss rifles and nothing else. Here, the Foxes kept that feel, but kept ammo reliance in mind. The left arm packs that familiar Gauss rifle, with the expected two tons of ammo, but the right arm instead carries an Improved Heavy Large Laser, providing similar damage (though with less range). That also saves enough weight to tack on a targeting computer, making both weapons much more dangerous. The chin mount returns again as well, this time with two deadly ER medium lasers. A Vulture made into a direct-fire trooper design? Truly we live in the future. The loss of pod space is made up for by intelligently identifying a weapon that could do the job of the old Gauss rifle for less weight, and makes for a remarkably handy configuration- and the first one to not be utterly crippled by poor choices in ammunition carriage. One more heat sink is tacked onto the original twelve to help with the heat from the lasers.

Finally, Configuration D mirrors its pre-Jihad parent by focusing on the massive ATM-12 rack as a primary weapon. Each side torso gets one stuffed in, with two tons of ammo stored with them. Another ton (for six total) get installed in the arms. Backup weaponry is provided by an Improved Heavy Medium Laser in each arm, and a pair of ‘I guess’ micro pulse lasers put into the chin mount. Two more heat sinks help keep the party going in tough combat. The ATM is just as useful in 3150 as it was in 3070, and so the D is a devastating opponent to use. Do remember that these are standard ATMs and NOT the Society’s iATM, so you’re limited to the original three ammo types. Boo-hoo.

There’s a lot to like and dislike here. The obvious is the trade-off of weaponry in favor of armor, and while the new armor is undoubtedly an improvement the loss of a mere three tons of pod space forced some very odd design choices to be made sometimes. The Prime and B configurations are utterly wretched in terms of ammunition loadouts, to a point that anything more than a Clan trial is going to run it dry quickly, while the A makes the choice to pack a big and inefficient cannon in place of any meaningful missile loadout. The C and D very much redeem the design though and should be used frequently by players, particularly the C- which is, of course, the least Vulture-esque of any of them. Go figure.

Regardless of its flaws, the Vulture IV has become a success, with every major military in the Inner Sphere (including all of the Clans) using the Mech in modest numbers at the very least. The Foxes gambled far less openly here than they did with the Savage Wolf, and the results are a solid customer available on the (relatively) cheap to any and all comers- which likely means Vulture-on-Vulture fights are not uncommon as the Inner Sphere descends yet again into chaos and war.
« Last Edit: 25 August 2016, 12:24:29 by JadeHellbringer »
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #1 on: 25 August 2016, 13:49:47 »
To be honest, the Vulture mk IV A is one of my go-to's in this time frame.  It's nothing special, but it can respond to most any threat.  If you treat it like a trooper you won't be disappointed.  Also means you don't think of it as a missile support unit like you would the original.  As for the canon, it's not ideal and I'd prefer an LB-X instead but it is what it is.  Your two primary weapons can force a PSR and the LRM's can sprinkle crit chances depending on your heat curve.

The ATM boat is evil and brings the pain though.

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #2 on: 25 August 2016, 14:01:15 »
I love the Ultra 10.  That is all.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #3 on: 25 August 2016, 14:15:02 »
Thanks for the article!


The Prime has a couple of issues. First, the LB-5X. Not a bad gun, synergizes well with the ER PPC. Unfortunately, there's only a ton of ammo, forcing the choice. Hellbie seems to prefer clusters, i'd probably pick slugs. The reason? PSRs and already plentiful crit-seeking capability. The ER PPC and a LB-5X slug would be enough to force a PSR, and while possible with cluster munitions, it is unlikely. I would have preferred an Ultra-AC/5, would have allowed for slightly greater damage potential, even if it would be a bit short on ammo.
The second problem are the ER Small Pulses. Swap them to ER Mediums, ER Smalls or Small Pulses and there'd be tonnage for extra ammo for the LB-5X or the SRMs or both.

I think i like the A config better, nice punch thanks to the UAC/10, and the LRMs and ER Smalls provide crit-seeking capability. But it is not a missile Vulture like the original Vulture Prime.

The B config... eh. I don't like the visual image of highly-asymmetric arms. Rather than a MPL and an ER PPC, the 'Mech should have had twin ER Large Lasers. Other than that, it is okay.

The C... meh. Never been a fan of non-missile Vultures, the original's C-config aside which is just stupidly inefficient but elegant. Just doesn't feel like a Vulture, and the Clan Gauss Rifle isn't very impressive considering the Clan ER PPCs. Here, the choice is obviously due to heat considerations.

And the D... Not sure what i think of the ATMs. If i like them, i like the config. If i don't... This day, i don't like it. Tomorrow? I don't know yet.


All in all, the 'Mech feels something of a jack of all trades. The armor's nice but otherwise it is kinda standard trooper and not really a Vulture. I like the use of modern tech (ER Pulses, Improved Heavies, Streak LRMs, Ferro-Lamellor) but otherwise, it is a bit meh.
I'd prefer the Vulture III if it had configs i'd like. As it is, i'm not a fan of neither Vulture descendant.

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #4 on: 25 August 2016, 14:17:50 »
I think “I would have preferred an Ultra AC/5" is the most damning thing I have ever heard.

With the particular combination of ER PPC and 5-class Autocannon I actually agree with you, but yeesh.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #5 on: 25 August 2016, 15:13:13 »
I think “I would have preferred an Ultra AC/5" is the most damning thing I have ever heard.

With the particular combination of ER PPC and 5-class Autocannon I actually agree with you, but yeesh.
Why not downgrade the ER Small Pulses to Small Pulses and swap the LB-5 for a CRAC 2? You lose on rounds of fire and flak, but you double your damage per cluster and gain range.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #6 on: 25 August 2016, 15:15:03 »
I often prefer UACs to LB-X cannons. The dakka-factor, you know.

EDIT
Why not downgrade the ER Small Pulses to Small Pulses and swap the LB-5 for a CRAC 2? You lose on rounds of fire and flak, but you double your damage per cluster and gain range.
This sounds pretty good actually, average damage (at distance) goes up and it retains the ability for crit-seeking at distance. Expect it doesn't fit the Prime's art.
« Last Edit: 25 August 2016, 15:16:59 by Empyrus »

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #7 on: 25 August 2016, 15:27:46 »
drop the chin turret on most of them for additional missile or AC ammo keep the mech in the field longer

stand on the PBIs  >:D

I kinda do get the feeling that this unit is an experiment in how much they can make out as an ammo supplier

Nice article
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Scotty

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #8 on: 25 August 2016, 15:44:52 »
Why not downgrade the ER Small Pulses to Small Pulses and swap the LB-5 for a CRAC 2? You lose on rounds of fire and flak, but you double your damage per cluster and gain range.

I genuinely like the LB-5X on the Clan side, but Hellbie has a point on this config.  Mixing heavy ballistics doesn't strike me as the way to improve the capabilities of this design.  If you need the ballistic presence to avoid Reflective Armor, I'd go with some AP Gauss and more ammo for the SRMs.  Maybe an upgrade to Streak, even, if there's enough to go around.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #9 on: 25 August 2016, 17:22:36 »
Thanks for the write up on the Death Duck Vulture IV

I have a love hate relation ship with the Vulture IV. It's a very practical upgrade to a beloved Clan Machine (armor was needed) but that lost 3 ton of pod space stops me from recreating my favorite configurations from the original (Mad Dog Beta) while the current configuration are good but personally a little lacking.

Prime has everything I love: ERPPC, SRMs... then it has the LB-5X. The Class 5 auto cannon has always been lack luster in my experience but not enough heat sinks to replace it with a second PPC.

Alpha configuration's Ultra 10 has more bite, Large Pulse is awesome, 4X LRM 5 is not bad for Lurm fans but I wonder what we could do if that Ultra 10 was dropped for a LB-10X. Should free up enough tonnage to swap out another weapon or more ammo (haven't done the numbers yet, sorry)

Charlie configuration is amusing for having a similar weapons mix as one of the Mad Cat MKIIs. I could do without the Heavy Laser myself (never been a fan of the Heavy Laser series) but that could easily be swapped out for a lighter energy weapon.

It's a good mech, allot of potential but I still haven't found a configuration that I have fallen in love with.

   
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #10 on: 25 August 2016, 17:28:33 »
I'm surprised there's not an Artemis V config.

I absolutely love Art/V, and wish it was more prevalent.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #11 on: 25 August 2016, 17:42:18 »
The Vulture Mk IV is one of my favourites of the 3145 'Mechs. it retains the classic look of the Vulture family, while fixing what has been, in my experience, the biggest problem of the original (and in my limited use of it, the Mk III) being the propensity of the Side Torsos to suddenly explode. Going from being only moderately armoured to mac armour Ferro Lam will do that.

Prime is my favourite configuration. The ER PPC is a devastatingly powerful weapon and, while yes, I'd have preferred the ability to do a guaranteed 20 points at long range, the LBX-5 is a good weapon that is fantastic for skeet-shooting hovers or blasting VTOLs. The SRMs also allow you to mix it up with different ammo loads. My only real suggestion would have been to drop the ERSPLs for regular SPLs and add a second ton to the LBX ammo, but I can understand that the writers of the TRO were bound by the original MWDA fluff.

One of the player characters in my (very stalled) 3145 AToW game pilots one of these, and it's a beast. Its ability to soak up a disproportionate amount of damage cannot be understated. In practice, that "one in five" damage reduction of the FL armour gets a lot more value, due to its effect of killing uneven, non-five lots. A Large Laser loses two points off its attack. A small laser is reduced to two points from three. SRM damage is halved. And possibly the most bizzare is that the Large VSP  loses three points of damage by the dint of being the only gun that does 11 points. And yes, this means you can no longer headcap with a Binary Laser or Bombast.

Likewise, it's one of my "go-to" trooper 'Mechs for the 3145 Era. Since it is used by just about everyone outside of the Periphery, it can really show up anywhere that the SharkFoxes think there's money to be made frm it.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #12 on: 25 August 2016, 17:42:18 »
Can we call her VIV?  This is one of my favorite 32nd century clan mechs.  Excellent armor while maintaining strong firepower, the chassis is great.  The configs are ok.  I like the C and D the best, but I'm pretty ok with the Prime.  It's about the best use I've seen of an LBX5, outside dedicated AAA platforms like the JagerMech or Partisan.  I would still prefer paired guns though, preferably energy weapons.  Paired ERPPCs could make it a Thug IIC.  Personally, I might prefer the exception range of paired ERLLs with a TC, fill excess tonnage to taste (ammo would probably go here, maybe ECM and/or AMS).
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #13 on: 25 August 2016, 22:58:57 »
My only real suggestion would have been to drop the ERSPLs for regular SPLs and add a second ton to the LBX ammo, but I can understand that the writers of the TRO were bound by the original MWDA fluff.

Yup. Looking at the original MWDA write up, the Prime seems to be an exact copy of the original Vulture A, with a 1:1 swap of two SRM6s for the two ERSPL. Thankfully, the original had enough ammo which could be reduced to barely acceptable levels. I don't disagree with JHB's assessment on ammo levels.

This in turn allowed for a sensible armor quantity when I decided to depart from the MWDA source's stated FF in favor of FL to bring the machine in line with the MC Mk IV.

Alpha configuration's Ultra 10 has more bite, Large Pulse is awesome, 4X LRM 5 is not bad for Lurm fans but I wonder what we could do if that Ultra 10 was dropped for a LB-10X. Should free up enough tonnage to swap out another weapon or more ammo (haven't done the numbers yet, sorry)

That'd work on an IS tech base where there's a two ton weight difference. The Clans' AC are always of equal mass, though, so there wouldn't be any additional weaponry.

...my favorite configurations from the original (Mad Dog Beta)

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #14 on: 25 August 2016, 23:40:41 »
That'd work on an IS tech base where there's a two ton weight difference. The Clans' AC are always of equal mass, though, so there wouldn't be any additional weaponry.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #15 on: 26 August 2016, 00:08:17 »
Is it bad that I'd prefer the D to have gone with ATM9's instead of 12's, and mounted a pair of ER larges instead of the heavy mediums and extra dhs?

It would get even better ammo endurance, and be able to hit as hard out to a much longer range when it doesn't want to waste ammo.

Plus it wouldn't he as obvious a retread of the original vulture config.

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #16 on: 26 August 2016, 00:38:03 »
Given who makes the MK IV, I think that "obvious retread" was probably an advertised feature.
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #17 on: 26 August 2016, 01:02:56 »
I find it weird that the discrepancy between the budget Timberwolf and the "real" Timberwolf is so massive this now. You can get five Vulture Mk IVs for the price of one Madcat Mk IV. I'm perfectly happy at that exchange rate, because I think I'd call it 1.5 Vulture Mk IVs to 1 Madcat MK IV straight up on the battlefield.

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #18 on: 26 August 2016, 01:03:38 »
Just played a game using a star of these (one of each) against the bot in MM a few hours ago. I found that the D was my favourite, followed by the B and then C/A was about the same in my mind. The Prime suffered from nowhere near enough sinks.


Of course, my impression of the D was probably helped by my luck with cluster table, where I got both launchers getting twelves multiple times... while firing HE ammo and the B didn't jam its Ultra/10. Of course, the star of that show was the star of Cuchulainn I teamed them up with... but thats a story for another thread.

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #19 on: 26 August 2016, 07:36:27 »
I find it weird that the discrepancy between the budget Timberwolf and the "real" Timberwolf is so massive this now. You can get five Vulture Mk IVs for the price of one Madcat Mk IV. I'm perfectly happy at that exchange rate, because I think I'd call it 1.5 Vulture Mk IVs to 1 Madcat MK IV straight up on the battlefield.

I don't subscribe to the old pricing formulas from maxtech or wherever they were published for this era.  The XXL price tag was from a time when there was only a few "hand built" units floating around on Solaris or some Steiner research station's Zeus X.  You'd think by the 3140's a mass produced XXL would be quite a bit cheaper (not 90k Cbills for a Mad Cat Mk IV;) the Sea Foxs DO want to make money on their work after all.
« Last Edit: 26 August 2016, 07:38:28 by Savage Coyote »

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #20 on: 26 August 2016, 08:11:26 »
Arr matey, here be FASAnomics!

One way to square the figures is to accept that they only represent cost and not price, ie availability is excluded from the listed costs, and they are only some kind of production cost, maybe not even that. Other undocumented cost components - labour, overhead, transport, time - work to make the Mad Cat Mk IV and Vulture Mk IV deployed in the ratios that they are.

Another possibility is that other constraints limit one to 12 Mechs and a budget of 560 million C-bills. A Mad Cat IV costs 100m, a Vulture IV 20m; one may deploy 5 Mad Cats and 3 Vultures, or 12 Vultures, or 4 Mad Cats and 8 Vultures (arguably the optimum hi-lo mix). One cannot deploy 28 Vultures.

nckestrel

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #21 on: 26 August 2016, 08:28:51 »
I don't subscribe to the old pricing formulas from maxtech or wherever they were published for this era.  The XXL price tag was from a time when there was only a few "hand built" units floating around on Solaris or some Steiner research station's Zeus X.  You'd think by the 3140's a mass produced XXL would be quite a bit cheaper (not 90k Cbills for a Mad Cat Mk IV;) the Sea Foxs DO want to make money on their work after all.

Yeah, several item's costs are deal breakers.  Clan tech for IS forces in the IS (not inflated enough), XL engines in the late Clan Invasion+ timeframe, XXL's after the first decade or two (the last two should drop precipitously). 
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #22 on: 26 August 2016, 12:53:38 »
Until they give us a new metric, it's what we've got. My gut instinct tells me that one Vulture IV doesn't lose much over one Mad Cat IV. The XXL tells me that the Madcat requires a lot more resources to make than the Vulture. I am willing to concede that perhaps the Madcat MK IV clocks in at around 45 million cbills now. If you think that's expensive, I must point out that people have paid much more for brand names and the like. The Madcat Mk IV is the Porsche roadster that everyone dreams about. The Vulture Mk IV is the Kharmann Ghia the smart people content themselves with.

glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #23 on: 26 August 2016, 13:07:28 »
Personally I chalk up the unchanged prices to serendipity. That the hand made prototype cost is for parts and labor to make it only, not with market forces involved. And the production model, while cheaper in the parts and labor area, has market forces like rarity, perceived value, profit margin, etc included. And they just happen to end up close to each other.

Trying to think of it any other way is just a recipe for a headache.

Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #24 on: 26 August 2016, 13:11:26 »
See, I like the LB-5X on the Vulture Mk IV . . . its your serious AA & long range vehicle crit weapon which is especially important in this combined arms age.  From what I recall only two other common (Garg Prime & Hellbringer) chassis have it and one (Nova Cat) that should be out of production at the time.  Which means if you want AA/Veh defense as a Clan player you have a limited number of chassis a heavy force can use or orbital drop.

I do with the chin had lost the ERSPL but again for AI work . . .

IMO the C is interesting but it has two problems . . . the Gauss Rifle's range is totally negated by the need to get into the iHLL range . . . which can also explode in that more vulnerable arm.  IMO a ERLL would have been much better, suited the C namesake and given more options.

I still have not used one thought I am interested it has not happened . . .

btw JHB . . . the mini . . . does it suffer the same arm problem as the Savage Wolf?  It looks like it might from the art though I have not put one together.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #25 on: 26 August 2016, 13:18:27 »
If the Savage Wolf's problem is "tiny connection points that cause the arms to fall off easily," yes it does.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #26 on: 26 August 2016, 13:25:53 »
I'm not entirely sure the novacat is out of production. Irece was making them after the jihad still, and the sharks were apparently selling them to all the IS clans as well as the rots.
We don't have MUL data on it for late republic era yet, but given the combine kept the Irece plant making other novacat mechs after wiping the cats out, it would seem reasonable to assume that if the factory still made them, the combine would keep the line going for its own use.
Agreed though. The LB5X is not a very common weapon by the 3100's. Or any era, really.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #27 on: 26 August 2016, 13:42:44 »
The mini is sort of a halfway measure compared to the nightmarish arms of the Savage Wolf. It's the same problem at the shoulder- small connection points make for a very difficult area to glue, the shapes are almost identical. However, the elbow (where the upper arm meets the weapon pod) isn't a separate glue point, it's fused into one piece. Mine is still unassembled (it's a project for this fall at some point), but having cleaned up the parts last night I was very displeased to see those familiar shoulders. (On the bright side, same legs too, and those were pretty easy to build compared to other recent multi-piece legged messes.)
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #28 on: 26 August 2016, 16:00:54 »
Multi-piece?  Talking Clan mechs or 45/50 designs?  I have not had too many problems with 45/50 designs.

You know, I am not sure I remember hearing about any of these in Sea Fox forces?
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Re: MotW: Vulture IV
« Reply #29 on: 27 August 2016, 02:29:07 »
Thank you for the write up :) Great article, and she's a different breed from the old Mad Dog but you can see the heritage for sure, sure she's not an optimised design, but then again, optimised designs are all kinds of dull.
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