Author Topic: VotW: Scorpion  (Read 33239 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Scorpion
« on: 14 April 2017, 13:24:02 »

"Hey, at least it isn't a J-27, right? Hah ha hah... god, I need a drink."

A quick return to the vehicle stomping grounds, brought upon by a thread discussing the Scorpion tank vs. the Scorpion Battlemech. The discussion got me thinking about the tank, and when I looked I realized that there's no article about it here (the previous one appears to have been lost to time). How hard can it be to look in and run down this thing on a Friday afternoon? (There's still not enough material to bring this column back full-time, but how does one resist when THIS is un-discussed?)

The Scorpion is one of those timeless machines that shows up in every non-Clan military out there, including little militias and pirate bands. It's small, cheap as hell, and marginally effective, and that's generally a hallmark of... yep, it's made by Quikscell. The plan was to make a small 'conventional' tank, and in that regard this may be the most 'real world' looking of any combat vehicle in Battletech (along with the Hetzer, of course), with a low-slung body and square-cornered, flat turret on top. There's nothing remarkable or attention-grabbing in the looks of the Scorpion (see above), and that's intriguing in and of itself. In a universe of odd-looking units like the Turhan or Rhino, this is a sight familiar to a 21st-century resident flung a thousand-odd years into the future. (Likely not their biggest concern in that instance, of course)

At 25 tons, the Scorpion is small by tank standards, which of course is unsurprising- if you're building a budget tank, you want to stay small. The larger the vehicle, the larger its engine needs, and thus cost goes up. The speed also needs to be kept in check for the same reason- and as as a result the Scorpion's movement is what one would call average for its day, 4/6. Plenty enough to keep pace with most large Mechs and vehicles (with the usual pavement bonus), but not fast enough that costs go up. Naturally the engine is an ICE system (again, budget), which precludes operating energy weapons without special equipment.

If you buy a budget tank, you have two things in mind in terms of durability. 1) My tank shouldn't be a waste of money, dying from a single hit before it does anything worthwhile, and 2) if it does go down, I don't want to be out a fortune. Scorpions... look, this thing's 25 tons, what do you really want out of it? And yet, for its size a Scorpion is a surprisingly tough customer, able to take a PPC hit anywhere and survive. Four tons of plating (standard, of course) coat the tank in a modest shell, with 16 points on the front and turret, 11 on the sides, and 10 on the rear. That kind of balance tells you a lot- Scorpions are expected to face enemies from all directions, so prepare to take hits anywhere. Considering the usual product from this manufacturer, this is a welcome thing.


"You laugh now, but this thing took work- when it arrived it was nothing but several armor plates, a cannon, instructions in Swedish, and an allen wrench..."

When it comes to weaponry, we keep it simple and 20th-century feeling. The turret features an AC-5, backed by 20 rounds of ammo. Nothing spectacular, or even all that dangerous really, but several Scorpions engaging a target can hit from respectable range and add up pretty quickly. A machine gun in the snout (backed by a half ton of ammo) is enough to cause infantry to worry a bit. There's nothing here to write home about really, but it keeps to the simple, rugged, and cheap nature of the tank- and like so many smaller units, its danger increases exponentially the more of them you have.

As you can imagine, the autocannon's somewhat lacking abilities prompted a number of refits, almost always involving a swap to another main weapon. An LRM version drops both guns to gain an LRM-10 and LRM-5 in the turret, each with their own ton of ammo. This is handier than you might think- while normally using different sized missile racks on the same unit is a sin (see: Thor E), here the 10-rack provides firepower while the 5-rack can supply things like smoke or (in later years) minefields. I'm a fan of this for a cheap little bombardment unit with a few tricks up its sleeve. A full ton of extra armor, spread across the tank, finishes this handy little unit.

Somewhat less effective (but still plenty handy) is a version packing two medium lasers in the turret. This required heat sinks and power converters, and increases costs as a result. The lasers each hit as hard as the old AC, but with drastically reduced range- if that's okay for your uses, such as in an urban area, this may not be a bad idea. The nose-mounted MG remains here, and a one-ton cargo bay allows you to bring a lunch. It's a toss-up between range and power on whether or not this is more useful to your style of play over the standard model.

One of the author's favorite vehicles in all of Battletech is a version that strips the cannon for two SRM-6 racks. That's pretty hefty firepower for its size, and with the SRM's shotgun effect it becomes an excellent (and cheap, did we mention cheap?) way to get motive hits on enemy armor, finish off damaged Battlemechs, make infantry regret getting out of bed, and a number of other handy roles. Even better, three tons of ammunition allow it to lay down fire forever and a day in battlefield terms, and give you the ability to bring in assorted ammunition types like smoke or inferno to make life interesting. This was an unholy nightmare in the old BMRr days, when a single inferno missile could end a Demolisher in one hit, but even under current rules this is a marvelous unit for all your valet needs- tank parking has never been more fun!

In the post-Clan invasion era, a new version cropped up combining newer weapons with the same frugal mindset- MRMs. An MRM-20 is crammed into the turret, Two tons of ammo are plenty for most operations. If you like MRMs this is handy, but you tend to not put good tank crews in a budget tank- which  means aiming a weapon with a built-in handicap to-hit number is going to be a little tough to do for a Scorpion crew. This is best avoided in favor of the other two missile versions, honestly.


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In the Prototypes TRO, we got a couple more versions. Liao has added minesweeping gear to the homely Scorpion (because someone has to clean up all those thrice-damned Thunder munitions after the fight!), backing this handy gear with a pair of LRM-5s in the turret. Three tons of ammo often are mine-clearance missiles (following the theme of the tank), but standard or even more minelaying rounds are just as useful- you have the ammo bay for it, have fun! The MG remains as well, just in case.

The production version of the experiment above keeps the weaponry the same, but switches to a fuel cell engine, and uses the weight savings to use hardened armor. A six ton shell makes for a remarkably tough little minesweeper with a sting of its own to boot, and should be considered over the experimental model if you have the option.

Scorpions show up everywhere- there's likely not a military in the Inner Sphere and Periphery that doesn't have a couple of them at least. And when there's that many, there's likely countless other field bashes and such. What would you do with a Scorpion? refit? Any good tactics? Stories?

Have a good weekend, guys, thanks for visiting again!
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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #1 on: 14 April 2017, 14:03:26 »
There's also a version from TR3085 ONN, which seems to simply replace the AC5 with two LAC2s. Slightly less damage (though slightly longer ammo endurance), but at the same range brackets (minus the minimum range). Two chances to hit eliminates the all or nothing of the AC5.

The Minesweeper variant from XTRO Liao retains the original 3 tons of armor, but adds in a bit of modular armor on the front to give a little added protection, but unlike the hardened armor on the eventual production model in TRO Prototypes, that slows the design down until its destroyed.

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #2 on: 14 April 2017, 14:33:42 »
And to think you were talking about not doing more articles just a bit ago...

I've long thought of the Scorpion as a sort of little Vedette, with a very similar role of just being something to fill out ones ranks.  The Scorpion and tanks like it are important in explaining how you can have a world where you've got three tank regements in an RCT and just one mech regiment, and the mechs are the most important.  If half your tanks are Scorpions and Vedettes and such, then it starts to make sense.

I usually use the AV5 variant, just because its iconic. The LRM variant is objectively better, but this tank isn't really about being good.

If I'm actually trying, I'll often hold them back until my mid ranged and/or short ranged units are engaging, then spring them.  For the enemy, its a choice between a long ranged shot at a soft unit that isn't too powerful, or a medium/short ranged shot at a tougher unit, but one with a bit more punch.  You either get a free turn of getting your Grasshoppers and Hunchbacks into range at the expense of a Scorpion or two, or your thin skinned tanks spend their time lobbing AC shells or missiles at the enemy with impunity, evening the odds for those short or medium ranged mechs.

I don't think I've ever used the SRM model, but it does seem like good value for fire power if you can get it into a city or a canyon or some place where you can spring a lovely little ambush.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #3 on: 14 April 2017, 14:44:13 »
There's also a version from TR3085 ONN, which seems to simply replace the AC5 with two LAC2s. Slightly less damage (though slightly longer ammo endurance), but at the same range brackets (minus the minimum range). Two chances to hit eliminates the all or nothing of the AC5.

The Minesweeper variant from XTRO Liao retains the original 3 tons of armor, but adds in a bit of modular armor on the front to give a little added protection, but unlike the hardened armor on the eventual production model in TRO Prototypes, that slows the design down until its destroyed.

I'll update the article later today- I thought I remembered a LAC version, but didn't see it anywhere so figured I dreamed it up. Thanks!


I don't think I've ever used the SRM model, but it does seem like good value for fire power if you can get it into a city or a canyon or some place where you can spring a lovely little ambush.

With three tons of ammo, use smoke rounds for one of those allotments. Make your own cover to advance through. Hell, bring friends- a couple of these is a little worrying, but if they brought along a couple of Manticores or Demolishers...  >:D
« Last Edit: 14 April 2017, 14:46:09 by JadeHellbringer »
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #4 on: 14 April 2017, 20:20:21 »
Scorpions are excellent cheap pickets to show the flag.  Civilians without heavy weapons can't touch them, hostiles with heavy weapons will more than likely take at least two hits to take one out.  The Standard is almost an ideal infantry support tank in the classical British armoured doctrine sense.  This is something designed to advance at the same rate as the infantry it's supporting, proving mobile cover and anti-emplacement firepower to an advance, or strong points on a defensive front in numbers that are significant.  The gun is nothing to write home about, but it can engage infantry far out of the infantry's own range with Flechette ammo, and the MG keeps enemy infantry from closing.

In essence, this is the kind of tank you field when you're not expecting to fight enemy armor, but will do it in a pinch.  It makes an excellent sort of tank for an infantry battalion to keep around just in case, and it's cheap enough that one might just have a couple laying around.  With an intro date after the fall of the Star League, you might not see hundreds of thousands of them, but tens of thousands is practically a guarantee.
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #5 on: 14 April 2017, 20:30:18 »
The Scorpion tank is almost the bug mech of combat vehicles. Maybe not as mobile, but Otherwise it's definitely a bug tank. I can't say I really love or hate them. My reaction to fielding one is usually, "well, it was cheaper than a Vedette."

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #6 on: 15 April 2017, 00:09:29 »
When fighting part of a 'campaign' over a few weekends way back in my youth.  I threw two lances of these backed by a pair of Pikes at a Clan recon Star whilst they were busy dealing with a bunch of mediums and lights.

My friend was not amused at the sheer volume of AC fire being lobbed down range at him with nay-thee a care for heat.  He was less amused when one scorpion then bounced an AC-5 round off his Fenris' faceplate :p didn't pen but still :D

Great article Hellbie :) Its a wonderfully simple tank, very user friendly and you can't really go wrong with it.
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #7 on: 15 April 2017, 00:18:22 »
OH MY CHEESE, A VOTW!!!
*swoons*

I love this little bugger. As I noted in the Scorpion vs Scorpion thread up in General, I like using the MRM model as a bodyguard, as the limited range and accuracy of the missiles is balanced out by the fact that enemies trying to kill the big tank your protecting will usually get close in order to get under minimums.

Also, how do you know your track is built by the lowest bidder? It's also used by the Jade Falcons. ;D
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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #8 on: 15 April 2017, 01:51:15 »
The SRM Carrier is about 2.5x the BV of the SRM Scorpion IIRC. So while 2-3 Scorpions (SRM) won't net you the same firepower as a SRM Carrier, the Scorpions have about the same amount of armor (That's per Scorpion, not overall), will survive longer, and can be in multiple places. Its not the solid "Ooomph" of the SRM Carrier, but its a pretty good fall back if you don't want to keep all your eggs in one basket.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #9 on: 15 April 2017, 08:56:19 »

Also, how do you know your track is built by the lowest bidder? It's also used by the Jade Falcons. ;D

Begging the question... how utterly vile and dishonorable do you think you have to be as a Clan warrior to get saddled with Scorpion duty? And how does your honor sink that low without being cast out of the Clan in the first place, or relegated to laborer caste? This feels like it should almost take effort to walk that fine of a line.  ;D
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #10 on: 15 April 2017, 09:31:46 »
Begging the question... how utterly vile and dishonorable do you think you have to be as a Clan warrior to get saddled with Scorpion duty? And how does your honor sink that low without being cast out of the Clan in the first place, or relegated to laborer caste? This feels like it should almost take effort to walk that fine of a line.  ;D

Maybe it goes to promoted paramilitary police. After you've solved your 50th case, Columbo style (only the boneheadedness isn't a pretence, and with the "Just one more thing..." moment immediately being followed by a hail of AP Gauss and Flamers) you get a shot at being a real Warrior, on the bottom rung, in a Scorpion that smells like a Solahma barracks.

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #11 on: 15 April 2017, 10:08:38 »
I'm having a mental image of a Scorpion Minesweeper crew with Thunder rounds grousing over having to clear their own minefields after the fact, culminating with an argument with an angry Quartermaster.

Quartermaster: That's the fifth ton of mine-clearing ammunition you idiots have used up in as many days!

Scorpion crew: Yes, well, we had to clear the minefields after each engagement -

QM: That's also the fifth ton of Thunder ammo you've used in as many days!

SC: Not our fault the Fedrats are so inconsiderate as to not clear the mines for us with their lives.

*an invoice on CCAF letterhead for five tons of mine-clearing ammunition, plus time and labor appears at the nearest FS consulate days later*
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #12 on: 15 April 2017, 10:27:17 »
Begging the question... how utterly vile and dishonorable do you think you have to be as a Clan warrior to get saddled with Scorpion duty?

In Clan Jade Falcon's case, all you have to be is a Jade Falcon who espouses the Wardens cause... ;)

I recall I used a lance of Scorpions once in a one off scenario, and if I remember correctly, they gave as good as they got.

Also, you know how much I like MML's, JHB, and given the existence of the LRM, MRM, and SRM variants, there almost seems to be a need to create a MML Variant. If you take out the LRM Launchers and Ammo, I believe you can put in either 2 MML-5's or 4 MML-3's with three tons of ammo and the flexibility that goes with it.

And a question to all out there, although it is twice the tonnage and moves faster, but happens to have the same weapon load out, which tank would you rather use, Scorpion or Vedette?
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #13 on: 15 April 2017, 10:37:49 »
It's... cheap.
Don't have nowt else to say about it.

Begging the question... how utterly vile and dishonorable do you think you have to be as a Clan warrior to get saddled with Scorpion duty? And how does your honor sink that low without being cast out of the Clan in the first place, or relegated to laborer caste? This feels like it should almost take effort to walk that fine of a line.  ;D
that's straight out solahma duty IMHO

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #14 on: 15 April 2017, 10:53:25 »
The scorpion can be pretty nasty if employed enmass. 5 point hits are fairly respectable even in the 3100's, and while a single scorpion is easy to pop, a full lance (or more!) Focusing its attention on a target means the damage mounts up quicker than you can knock them out.

One of my goals is to one day build my 'iron tide' unit. A reinforced battalion of scorpions, hover APCs, VTOL, conventional fighters, and mechanized infantry that can be fielded for the chill cost of a 3025 light mech company or the BV of a 3025 medium-heavy mech company.

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #15 on: 15 April 2017, 15:25:52 »
Begging the question... how utterly vile and dishonorable do you think you have to be as a Clan warrior to get saddled with Scorpion duty? And how does your honor sink that low without being cast out of the Clan in the first place, or relegated to laborer caste? This feels like it should almost take effort to walk that fine of a line.  ;D

Remember, the Falcons have begun allowing the formation of local militias lately. Given how they treat their solahma warriors, the kind of gear weekend warriors are gonna get? Scorpions are their assault-weight units. :)
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #16 on: 15 April 2017, 15:26:47 »
  The fun thing about the Scorpion is that, like many tanks in Battletech, I am pretty sure it is based on a real combat vehicle, in this case the Scorpion CRTV.  The CRTV is an 8 ton British reconnaissance vehicle built in 1973.

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #17 on: 15 April 2017, 15:28:11 »
That's the best argument I've ever heard to why they're Juggernauts according to the MUL. ;D
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #18 on: 15 April 2017, 16:13:49 »
The scorpion can be pretty nasty if employed enmass. 5 point hits are fairly respectable even in the 3100's, and while a single scorpion is easy to pop, a full lance (or more!) Focusing its attention on a target means the damage mounts up quicker than you can knock them out.

One of my goals is to one day build my 'iron tide' unit. A reinforced battalion of scorpions, hover APCs, VTOL, conventional fighters, and mechanized infantry that can be fielded for the chill cost of a 3025 light mech company or the BV of a 3025 medium-heavy mech company.

Now, granted BV is deeply imperfect, but just as a way to relate to the other unit of the week, by BV you could get an entire company of standard Scorpions for the price of that silly TSEMP Gyrfalcon.  They're much too different to say which is better or worse, but its interesting to consider, to say the least. 

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #19 on: 15 April 2017, 16:36:45 »
That's the best argument I've ever heard to why they're Juggernauts according to the MUL. ;D

A Juggernaut's role is to take hits.

Think about it. ;D
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #20 on: 15 April 2017, 17:36:01 »
They're zerglings. Poor zerglings to be sure, but zerglings anyway. A heavier juggernaut vehicle would be the ultralisk...

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #21 on: 15 April 2017, 20:33:13 »
Remember, the Falcons have begun allowing the formation of local militias lately. Given how they treat their solahma warriors, the kind of gear weekend warriors are gonna get? Scorpions are their assault-weight units. :)

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #22 on: 15 April 2017, 20:39:00 »
Now, granted BV is deeply imperfect, but just as a way to relate to the other unit of the week, by BV you could get an entire company of standard Scorpions for the price of that silly TSEMP Gyrfalcon.  They're much too different to say which is better or worse, but its interesting to consider, to say the least. 

"I bid a fairly representative star of modern Falcon mechs, and we shall defeat you by yelling our mighty Falcon cries!" 

"We bid a full battalion of light armor, and maybe a bit of infantry to round things out."

with the BV of a star of dark age era falcon mechs, i could probably take a full regiment..


Quote
6 Scorpion Light Tank (LRM)
18 Scorpion Light Tank
4 Pegasus Scout Tanks
8 Savannah Master

2 Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (SRM)
4 Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle)

4 Warrior Attack helicopter H-7
4 Ferret Light Scout VTOL

2 Mechbuster
4 Guardian Fighter

total cost: 29,921,808 cbills

and out of curiosity, before skill modifiers the BV is only 15,532

that's a reinforced combined arms mechanized battalion.
2 Companies of Scorpions, with 3 regular and 1 LRM variant in each lance. (integral fire support.. Booyah)
1 Scout company of 4 Pegasus and 8 Savannah Master
2 Companies of Mechanized Wheeled Infantry.. 2 platoons of rifle and a platoon of SRM each.
1 VTOL support demi-company with a Lance of Warrior H-7's and a lance of Ferrets for recon.
and an air support squadron with a lance of Mechbusters and 2 lances of Guardians.

7 companies worth of troops total.

for the cost of a mech company you can field an under-strength combined arms regiment.
or if you really want a funny comparison, by cbill cost you could build 3 of these for the cost of one Savage Wolf..

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #23 on: 15 April 2017, 20:47:11 »
C-bills are terrible at everything can we please stop using them as meaningful comparisons especially with dark age equipment.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #24 on: 15 April 2017, 21:07:21 »
the unit may have been created using Cbills (it was for a "build a unit using a 30 million cbill budget" contest.. they never specified mechs), and i mainly retain the cbill price to illustrate how odd the cbill costs can get, since this unit is fairly potent (15K battle value!), and you could field one of them for the price of a good heavy mech.

in battle value, which is a somewhat more capable system, it still shows how things can have a huge gap.. with typical clan pilots, you'd be taking this unit up against a single heavy to assualt star of clan mechs from the 3050's. use the ones from 3100's, and your looking at a single clan star (with their 3/4 pilots) against 2-3 of these massed cheap tank units..


edit: and when i worked a modified version of this unit into Alpha Strike (dropping the Conventional Fighters and Hovers, and adjusting the number of LRM tanks to put one lance of them in each tank company, instead of one LRM tank in each lance), i fit it into 400 PV. which would put it up against a IS Heavy Mech Company or a Clan Medium Trinary. i probably could have fit the Hover Company and maybe even the Conventional Fighters back in if i'd been willing to go to 'green' skill levels for everything. (and i might still do that.)

Code: [Select]
Alpha Strike: Iron Tide 393pv

Unit Skill Points
-------------------------------------------------------
Armor Company 1
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11

Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11

Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14

Armor Company 2
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11

Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11
Scorpion Light Tank (standard) 4 11

Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14
Scorpion Light Tank (LRM) 4 14

Infantry Battalion 1
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (SRM) 5 7

Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (SRM) 5 7

Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle) 5 4
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (SRM) 5 7

VTOL support Demi-company
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Standard) 4 6
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Standard) 4 6
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Standard) 4 6
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Standard) 4 6

Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7 4 9
Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7 4 9
Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7 4 9
Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7 4 9
It is still a fairly one sided fight because of the numbers disparity, but not quite as bad.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2017, 23:28:18 by glitterboy2098 »

SCC

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #25 on: 15 April 2017, 22:13:16 »
C-bills are terrible at everything can we please stop using them as meaningful comparisons especially with dark age equipment.

the unit may have been created using Cbills (it was for a "build a unit using a 30 million cbill budget" contest.. they never specified mechs), and i mainly retain the cbill price to illustrate how odd the cbill costs can get, since this unit is fairly potent (15K battle value!), and you could field one of them for the price of a good heavy mech.

in battle value, which is a somewhat more capable system, it still shows how things can have a huge gap.. with typical clan pilots, you'd be taking this unit up against a single heavy to assualt star of clan mechs from the 3050's. use the ones from 3100's, and your looking at a single clan star (with their 3/4 pilots) against 2-3 of these massed cheap tank units..
Gotta agree with this about not using C-Bills, for that example glitterboy provided is based upon the ICE's for the Scorpion's being built on a production line while the Savage Wolf's XXL being hand built by scientists, yet by the Dark Age it's likely the other way around.

misterpants

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #26 on: 15 April 2017, 23:33:31 »
I'm disappointed surprised the Jade Falcons haven't officially set the MSRP of all goods to allowing you and your family to live in service to Kerensky's True Children.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #27 on: 16 April 2017, 00:55:17 »
Gotta agree with this about not using C-Bills, for that example glitterboy provided is based upon the ICE's for the Scorpion's being built on a production line while the Savage Wolf's XXL being hand built by scientists, yet by the Dark Age it's likely the other way around.
I wouldn't go as far as to say ICEs are lostech, or even hard to produce. A lot of Dark Age units still use them, and they are simply better for day-to-day life or cheap units.

I mean really. Why would you exchange everything for a fusion engine that only needs to be recharged... A decade or a century or whatever, when you could provide a much more self-sustaining industry? People'll always need gas for those ICEs and Fuel Cells. Why stop producing them when there's still money to be made, money to save, and corners to cut?
« Last Edit: 16 April 2017, 00:58:53 by Caedis Animus »

Liam's Ghost

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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #28 on: 16 April 2017, 01:19:21 »
I wouldn't go as far as to say ICEs are lostech, or even hard to produce. A lot of Dark Age units still use them, and they are simply better for day-to-day life or cheap units.

I mean really. Why would you exchange everything for a fusion engine that only needs to be recharged... A decade or a century or whatever, when you could provide a much more self-sustaining industry? People'll always need gas for those ICEs and Fuel Cells. Why stop producing them when there's still money to be made, money to save, and corners to cut?

This sort of thing has actually been quantified with the availability codes in Interstellar Operations. For example, the ICE engine has an availability rating of A for all eras. And, confirming a joke I'd made previously, the basic autocannon has an availability of D, higher than most of the fancier clan alternatives.
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Re: VotW: Scorpion
« Reply #29 on: 16 April 2017, 19:07:55 »
The Scorpion is amusing tank run into in waves.  Its fun to fight if your in mech.  Cheap if you need throw out a force on a budget and buy time for reinforcements to arrive.  I like it when Vehicle Effectiveness rules are used, those just make tank more survival and more c-bill for your price you paid.

Thanks again for revisting the VotW, Jadehellbringer!!
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