SLDF Lack of dedicated Inf Dropships

[2ndAcr]

 I find it funny how the SLDF who used a ton of Infantry that there is a total lack of dedicated large Infantry carrying Dropships.  Only the Colossus carries a full Battalion worth of Infantry. It is just hard for me to understand how the SLDF deployed 3-6 Infantry Regiments per Division. Only after the Star League collapse do we see dedicated Battalion carrying Dropships appear. Condor and later the Seeker.

 MUL does not list the Drost as active in SLDF era's. They at least haul a Battalion.

[Adrian Gideon]

Or we just never received information on their dedicated infantry DropShips.
A blind spot in the writing doesn't necesarrily mean a blind spot in the universe.

[Death by Lasers]

   A lot Dropships are described as having numerous variants (TRO:3057 has some good fluff).  Both the Union and Overlord are quoted as coming in dozens of different configurations including Cargo carrying varieties.  The Union for example has a combined arms transport version and an cargo hauling version (the most common).  The Overlord is also noted as being made in over two dozen variants.  It seems the traditional mech haulers are more than just mech haulers but also general purpose ships.

  My guess is that Unions and Overlords along with other dropships are probably the backbone of the SDLF infantry transportation fleet.  It still doesn't give the SDLF a dedicated Infantry Transport in the strictest sense but I can't imagine a transport being good for hauling mechs or cargo and being bad for transporting infantry. 

  Given all the fluff about how the staple transports actually come in different cargo hauling configurations I tend treat the cargo as variable the general chassis as fixed.  Although, an official set of record sheets on common dropship variants would be cool but not strictly needed.

Edit:  Ok scratch the Union.  I decided to reread the section in TRO:3057 and realized that the Union infantry variant might not be likely.  The main reason being is the fluff describes a version carrying 2 platoons of foot as being scarce because of the need to upgrade the life support systems.  If the combined arms version is scarce for this reason a full infantry transport would probably be rarer.

[bobthecoward]

I always thought they would just modify a mule.

How many soldiers can you out in the 74 tons of union space?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The SLDF had oodles of Warships.  There's enough capacity right there to transport all the infantry you could want.  Known dropships and shuttlecraft are plenty to ferry troops down to the world from the warship(s) in orbit.

[Colt Ward]

No, a infantry carrier version would be perfectly fine- its trying to cram in lances of mechs, armor and ASF that starts running it tight on space . . . its already too low on cargo space like most 'late' SLDF DS.  Strip out the mechs and convert the ASF cubbies to say 4 or 6 SC cubicles and you can get a decent troop transport.

To OP, they have redressed this somewhat but some examples-
Fury- light company combat team
Intruder- reinforced battalion transport
DroST IIA- 2 mechanized company transport (vehs are cargo)

Combined Arms transports-
Fortress
Excalibur
Lee
Colossus
and I think I am missing one

Post SLDF-
Condor- reinforced light battalion combat team

But the main point for massed troop carriers . . . it would be handled like it was in WWI & WWII as well as more modern conflicts.  Cargo carriers and passenger ships (or for modern airlines) are impressed and converted to carry bodies.  Considering we know have cargo container support facilities which allow bases to adjust according to needs, IMO it should not be a stretch for their to be such equipment stashes in SL/House military warehouses.

[Colt Ward]

As TDC also points out, small craft would be better to ferry troops to the LZ or their strategic targets . . . which means converting cargo to troop space on a Behemoth might not be a bad idea.

As for the Union . . . it could transport 2 infantry regiments (20 foot companies), 6 SC for landings, and 630t of cargo space.  I am not sure you want to convert ships to hold any more . . . even 2 regiments is a bit much IMO due to the 'eggs in 1 basket' theory of combat transport.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly i think we should have seen a militarized Monarch by now. perfect for moving massive numbers of infantry, and a militarized version could downgrade the quarters to save the tonnage needed for enough infantry bays to haul all of the infantry gear.

[Archangel]

It should probably be noted that more than a few Divisions didn't have a full DropShip (or JumpShips) complement especially Infantry Divisions which weren't meant for offensive actions/rapid deployment.  When they were redeployed additional JumpShip/DropShip squadrons were temporarily assigned by the Naval Command.

[Death by Lasers]

The SLDF had oodles of Warships.  There's enough capacity right there to transport all the infantry you could want.  Known dropships and shuttlecraft are plenty to ferry troops down to the world from the warship(s) in orbit.

  I really like that idea.  If it isn't explicitly stated in canon it should be as it would give a good in-universe explanation as to why SDLF era Warships have such massive cargo holds.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

honestly i think we should have seen a militarized Monarch by now. perfect for moving massive numbers of infantry, and a militarized version could downgrade the quarters to save the tonnage needed for enough infantry bays to haul all of the infantry gear.

I once  posted infantry transport configurations for the Buccaneer and Mammoth class bulk haulers.

[2ndAcr]

 If I had a clue how to create one, I would. I had a hard drive fail on my main PC, so lost my Campaign I was doing that started 2785. I was creating a new force, but more infantry heavy when I slammed into the total lack of decent infantry carriers for the SLDF. Mechs and heavy tanks are easy, light vehicles and infantry are the stumbling blocks. Want 2 Battalions of Mechs, easy to do, carry a armor regiment of heavy tanks, piece of cake. But try to use a Regiment of Infantry and your in trouble.

 I got all the rule books, but no clue how to convert something that could be used with MekHQ, which is what I am using to run my campaign. So any volunteers that want to create even a modified Intruder, Lion, Triumph that carries an infantry Battalion or more and 20-30 light vehicles plus some supplies that can be used in MekHQ, I will gladly accept the offer.

 Intruder carries 4 platoons of infantry in MekHQ. I was trying to stay close to the MUL which does not list the Drost at all. But I might have to resort to using it because in 2784/2785 you are not moving infantry easily. Heck even moving light vehicles outside of loading them as cargo is a nightmare. Year 2800-2810 cannot get here quick enough, come on Condor and Seeker, I need the light vehicle bays and infantry bays.

 I understand the temp assigned, but was just stating the lack of any canon infantry transports of the SLDF era that carry a Battalion or more. I mean they must have swarmed Terra with thousands of Fury's. Just saying.

[sillybrit]

There's lots of unnecessary reinventing of the wheel here as the SLDF already had a perfectly adequate infantry transport, the Czar. It's a 6400t spheroid carrying 36 infantry platoons, that first served the HAF and then the SLDF.

Yes, it's a relatively late addition to the game, having only been publish in XTRO Prim III, but the scarcity of early dedicated infantry carriers was probably one of the reasons it got the nod for that XTRO.

[I am Belch II]

It was mechs first everything else second.

[wantec]

Something to consider is that an infantry unit is going to devour (often literally) tons of consumables. More so than a vehicle or 'Mech unit of organizational size. Your typical cargo dropship would likely be the best option, keeping the consumables close to the consumers, that way in transit you don't have to shuffle a lot of cargo between ships just to keep the squishies fed.

[Frabby]

The Fury and Intruder have already been mentioned; I'll throw in the Seeker for good measure.
In the BattleTech universe, if the infantry contingent on such a vessel isn't enough for a mission then it's not an infantry mission and you're going to deploy proper BattleMechs anyways.

Keep in mind that military DropShips are deployment vehicles, not pleasure cruisers. They're meant for combat insertions and as the spearhead of any ground action force.

So I reckon the bulk of all military forces travels in regular cargo or passenger DropShips.

[snewsom2997]

Why use dedicated infantry Dropships, when you have thousands of Warships and Jumpships and probably a million Shuttle craft?

Take a McKenna with 16 Shuttles, figure a company of infantry per Shuttle and now you have a nice fat infantry regiment on world. Figure it takes 30-60 mins to load drop and reload and you have a Brigade by mid morning, and a Division by the End of the day. Just from a single warship. That McKenna is going to have a half dozen other warship with it, with another 40-60 Shuttle Craft. The numbers get stupid real quick, and more than explains the lack of Infantry Droppers.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I keep seeing these references to carrying infantry on WarShips.  Are there a bunch of SLDF WarShips with massive amounts of passenger quarters somewhere that I'm not seeing?  Where are you putting these infantry?  Because if we're just converting cargo space, it seems like it'd be more efficient to do that on cargo DropShips, since you can transport significantly more infantry in one trip that way than having to run dozens of shuttles back and forth several times.

[Robroy]

I keep seeing these references to carrying infantry on WarShips.  Are there a bunch of SLDF WarShips with massive amounts of passenger quarters somewhere that I'm not seeing?  Where are you putting these infantry?  Because if we're just converting cargo space, it seems like it'd be more efficient to do that on cargo DropShips, since you can transport significantly more infantry in one trip that way than having to run dozens of shuttles back and forth several times.

Not to mention that there would be a lot more junpships and dropships to work with instead of using a warship as a troop transport.

[Kovax]

Another possibility is that the SLDF warships typically carried thousands of infantry in converted cargo space (they've got no shortage of that), and the dropships were merely used to shuttle them to and from the planetary surface.  Several small craft shuttles and a few company-level droppers would be sufficient to gradually transfer that infantry, but a converted cargo hauler DS could shuttle battalions of infantry at a time between the warship and planet.

With the warships no longer present in quantity, it seems like the ability to move troops between planets has taken a massive hit, and the Succession Wars are more about raiding than invasion largely due to the inability to carry enough infantry to occupy and pacify an entire planet.  Either the game needs to bring back warships as troop carriers, or else add a new set of dropships designed to ferry large numbers of troops.

While bulk troop transport variants of several dropships have been casually mentioned, there have been no official examples (with record sheets or full stats) presented.  Hastily commandeered luxury passenger dropships like the Princess don't count, because they're designed for a high level of passenger comfort, not maximum troop capacity.

[Frabby]

While bulk troop transport variants of several dropships have been casually mentioned, there have been no official examples (with record sheets or full stats) presented.  Hastily commandeered luxury passenger dropships like the Princess don't count, because they're designed for a high level of passenger comfort, not maximum troop capacity.

I'd argue that during the week-long, sometimes month-long trip to the target planet, a high level of passenger comfort is imperative to keep morale up.
Military DropShips are deployment vehicles more loke Higgins Boats, not liners to travel on for weeks on end. Not for larger infantry formations anyways.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I'd argue that during the week-long, sometimes month-long trip to the target planet, a high level of passenger comfort is imperative to keep morale up.
Military DropShips are deployment vehicles more loke Higgins Boats, not liners to travel on for weeks on end. Not for larger infantry formations anyways.

I don't know that that's the case.  The Czar infantry-transport dropship mentioned upthread describes its infantry bays as including "berthing, recreation, and dining space".  That doesn't sound like any Higgins boat I ever saw.

[snewsom2997]

I don't know that that's the case.  The Czar infantry-transport dropship mentioned upthread describes its infantry bays as including "berthing, recreation, and dining space".  That doesn't sound like any Higgins boat I ever saw.

Yeah I expect stacked bunks, a mess and a rec room.

The only higgins boat type accommodations, would be in the back of an IFV or VTOL.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I don't know that that's the case.  The Czar infantry-transport dropship mentioned upthread describes its infantry bays as including "berthing, recreation, and dining space".  That doesn't sound like any Higgins boat I ever saw.

Seats that recline can be called "berthing" space.
Aisles between the seats can be called "recreation" space.
A microwave kitchenette can be called "dining" space.

Travelling via bays is, imo, like real-world flying. Except it's not for hours but days or weeks on end.  Pure torture.

It's not a binary condition of having amenities or not.  The quality of amenities matters.  And steerage class quarters will always be superior to bays.  It's just mathematically impossible for infantry bays to have amenities comparable to quarters. 

[Arkansas Warrior]

That's not really the tone of the article, that also notes that 4 Czars and a jumpship were the SLDF's standard way to transport an infantry brigade.  I really doubt the SLDF's normal MO was to torture their infantry on the way into combat.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

That's not really the tone of the article, that also notes that 4 Czars and a jumpship were the SLDF's standard way to transport an infantry brigade.  I really doubt the SLDF's normal MO was to torture their infantry on the way into combat.

No, but it does mesh in with the idea upthread that transport dropships, even Czars, are meant to be space higgins boats.  A few minutes, or at worst few hours flight down from the orbital WarShip where the infantry are berthed for long term voyages.

And that the universe had to deal with the loss of WarShips by either forcing people to "fly cattlecar" for entire transits, or start having bulk haulers fill in for missing warship cargo capacity.

[Arkansas Warrior]

No, but it does mesh in with the idea upthread that transport dropships, even Czars, are meant to be space higgins boats.  A few minutes, or at worst few hours flight down from the orbital WarShip where the infantry are berthed for long term voyages.

And that the universe had to deal with the loss of WarShips by either forcing people to "fly cattlecar" for entire transits, or start having bulk haulers fill in for missing warship cargo capacity.

But that doesn't mesh with the XTRO fluff, which describes teaming four Czars with a Liberty-class jumpship.  Unless those Libertys are using pirate pointts exclusively, that means that the infantry are riding, at a minimum, all the way from the jump point, and quite likely making the whole interstellar trip in the same dropship mounted to the same jumpship (or else why have the jumpship as part of the team at all?  It makes no sense to transport them across the sphere in WarShips' theoretical passenger bays, only to move them to DropShips mated to a plain JumpShip for the last jump.)

[Terminax]

I ascribe all the transportation and logistics issues Battletech faces to the original writers not knowing terribly much (if anything) of how such things works and while there are attempts to sort of fix things here or there, they're patching over patches patching over older patches and eventually you get a really bumpy product as a result. Most transports aren't all that well designed in the first place and I'm sure there's room to plunk in a few more dropships (and Jumpship) classes I'm not really sure it's worth the effort.

[Weirdo]

To answer the thread's original question, a rereading of the Czar's fluff says it served for practically the entirety of the Star League's existence. Carrying 36 platoons per ship, I think we can safely say we've found the heavy infantry hauler you've been looking for. They go obsolete in 2740, and my guess is that after that the troops get carried in big combined-arms ships like the Lee and Excalibur, and small ships like the Fury or Intruder.

[2ndAcr]

 Sorry guys, I forgot about the Czar because it is not listed in MekHQ. But that would work perfectly anyway. Well, I will just have to come up with something else.