Author Topic: Modular Basing  (Read 1973 times)

Colt Ward

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Modular Basing
« on: 05 May 2017, 14:44:50 »
One of the things you see in some Sci-Fi settings is the idea of modular buildings able to be rapidly set up to offer facilities to a command sent somewhere new.  Starship troopers, Space Above & Beyond, Star Wars and even Star Trek all had rapid set up (or drop off as the case maybe) buildings ground forces- or support for aero forces on the ground- would use for barracks, rec, tac/strat, storage and repair.

What sort of things do you think should be available to Houses & mercs for such rapid deployments?  What might be the most common/popular?

If you know links to real systems, it would also be cool to see.

I think some of the top would be-

Vehicle Repair Bay
Something like-


or



Stack them 3 high, IMO using I-beams as girders for stability, and you could have a mech repair bay, using the containers to mount or open doors for gantry walks.  Inside each container would be the tools and equipment to repair vehicles or armor.  If the frame of the structure uses I-beams then you should be able to easily work of a overhead winch/crane . . . or you use vehicle versions to get into action faster.

For barracks-

If you do not want them dug in, then below is a option- they even have AC/heat judging by the picture.  For something more protected you can put up sandbags or their 31st century equivalent.  Or if you have quick working engineers, you can dig a trench to put them in.

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snewsom2997

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #1 on: 05 May 2017, 15:03:28 »
Inflatable buildings like combat support hospitals. Cargo containers like we use today. Really whatever is available.

For a Cattle raid they aren't required. For the most part I see the Dropships being the modular buildings. Then you never have to pack and unpack. There is the Dove with Medical Facilities, Mech and Vehicle Carriers with repair bays, and Cargo carriers are cavernous.

For in the field, I'd imaging you drag the mech or vehicle to the repair vehicle or move the repair vehicle to the mech or vehicle. Basicllay just a big giant convoy, like we say in Iraq, basically big defended perimeters, with what ever you have or need inside the perimeter.

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #2 on: 08 May 2017, 14:17:12 »
If you were really motivated, you could have your 'Mechs dig holes in the ground with their hands to put your modular buildings in to provide some more protection. Granted they'd be a PITA to evacuate, but avoiding artillery and weapons fire is probably something everyone would appreciate.

Though I don't know how an inflatable building would do underground. ;)

Edit: I realized just now that you could probably use a few of the Gun Trailers from TRO:3145 Mercs as models for your modular buildings. Replace the weapons with crew quarters.

snewsom2997

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #3 on: 08 May 2017, 14:30:28 »
If you were really motivated, you could have your 'Mechs dig holes in the ground with their hands to put your modular buildings in to provide some more protection. Granted they'd be a PITA to evacuate, but avoiding artillery and weapons fire is probably something everyone would appreciate.

Though I don't know how an inflatable building would do underground. ;)

Edit: I realized just now that you could probably use a few of the Gun Trailers from TRO:3145 Mercs as models for your modular buildings. Replace the weapons with crew quarters.

There is the GSEV, the Davion Omni Support Truck.

Colt Ward

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #4 on: 08 May 2017, 15:19:30 »
Well, we have the base construction rules in Campaign Ops for guides on cost/size etc.  More I was looking at examples and some fluff to back up capabilities.  For instance in high school I trained in a machine shop, since I already had most my academic requirements met, that had roughly four lathes, drill press or two, a table for bending/shaping metal & dies to go with it, along with other equipment I did not use much or remember.  Then you have the cutting torches; arc, MIG & TIG welders . . . it was a pretty comprehensive shop, and you could make a LOT of things just by getting the raw materials.  Throw all of that in 3 or 4 containers with a container with a FCE or ICE generator (or one of your spare SFE hooked up) and you would have a pretty solid machine shop to meet small unit needs.

My old unit's motorpool was shared with another artillery battalion & the brigade HQ, they had a electronics shop that would fit in one or two containers with tools, spares and testing equipment which should fit in two containers.  Now it was not quite up to depot level repairs- those were taken a few miles away to a contractor ran depot- but the techs in charge of the pairs were a bit more capable than the manuals required.

I had forgotten about the inflatable buildings, we used them once or twice for chow halls and I think I heard of smaller versions being used for barracks when in transit.  One was used for training, teaching the new laser sights on the M4s and bore-siting the lasers.
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mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #5 on: 08 May 2017, 15:38:16 »
More I was looking at examples and some fluff to back up capabilities.

I did a google search for "containerized machine shop" and it looks like there's a company called SeaBox that does exactly what you suggest. They make a machine shop that fits into two 20' containers.

Google also suggested containerized living unit. After running that search I found a Wikipedia page and a DTIC PDF document.

So that may help you get going.

edit: Also be sure to look at Wikipedia Shipping Container Architecture page. Has a whole list of stuff you may find interesting.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #6 on: 08 May 2017, 15:42:48 »
this is pretty much how i argue the modular bays design of the Aurora dropship work. they are basically big cargo bays with those interlocking mechanisms built into them, so you can customize it with modules suited to the item your putting in the bay. need a mechbay? install a stretch of flooring, a gantry, and put the machineshop and living space module in opposite corners. need a fighter bay? pull those out and install a catapult, storage cradle, and move the machineshop and living space modules around to fit.
Light Vehicle bays? three sections of tie-down flooring, possibly staggered vertically.
Battle Armor Bays? additional barraks style living modules, storage modules for BA, and a BA specific machine shop module...

etc. not something you can easily do on the move.. but any spaceport ought to be able to handle the work required to refit a bay, since it is largely a case of using a crane to lift out the old parts and boxes and lower in the new ones.

i felt this made more sense than "each bay is a giant box and you have to rip out 1/6th of your ship everytime you want to refit"

SCC

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #7 on: 09 May 2017, 03:33:33 »
OK, for small stuff you can probably haul it around on the back of a truck, anything bigger, like 'Mech Bays, well there's DropShips

Hellraiser

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #8 on: 13 May 2017, 22:24:06 »
If you know links to real systems, it would also be cool to see.

The previous links about Container Quarters combined with some HESCO barriers would make for a quick field base set up.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/infrastructure/hesco/

I've seen some ideas for CLQ type use by civilians where they either bury it in the earth & enter through the roof or, they have it at ground level but cover 3 sides in dirt to insulate & reduce the need for AC/Heat.
Not a bad option for a "wilderness cabin".

I've even seen 2 of them together w/ 1 acting as storage/garage for a portable generator & ATV that get pulled out when the cabin is occupied.

I think the CLQ concept would just be that much more common in the 31st century with dropship deployments.
Didn't Wolf Dragoons set up a small city overnight whenever they deployed to a new base world originally?

I would think that would only be possible through a LOT of prefab & modular containers.
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Lamont-Cranston

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2017, 06:14:12 »
Didnt a Davion book include modular support vehicle and trailer? Had a mechanic workshop, bunk, kitchen, field hospital, etc trailers

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #10 on: 30 May 2017, 09:37:18 »
Didnt a Davion book include modular support vehicle and trailer? Had a mechanic workshop, bunk, kitchen, field hospital, etc trailers

You might be thinking of this:

There is the GSEV, the Davion Omni Support Truck.

And given your username, it's somewhat ironic you didn't know that. ;)

But now that I think about it some more, I guess the base would have to be evil, right?

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #11 on: 16 July 2017, 18:03:01 »
Sweden uses these as aircraft hangars for deploying distributed bases:



Supposedly they fit in a 20' container and can be erected by three men without any mechanical assistance systems according to the manufacturer.

Colt Ward

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #12 on: 16 July 2017, 23:48:29 »
Interesting, is there a link to that company's site?
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kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #13 on: 17 July 2017, 00:57:37 »
Not linking the company itself since their website doesn't have these anyway.

https://www.copybook.com/companies/nss-sverige

Might also want to click Military Shelters at categories near the bottom.

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #14 on: 17 July 2017, 11:01:43 »
FWIW, I think the U.S. Army is now testing inflatable buildings. They look like Quonset huts, but the ribs and poles and stuff are actually airbags that are inflated. Found it: Airbeams.

That could also be a source of inspiration.

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #15 on: 17 July 2017, 11:54:32 »
Supposedly they fit in a 20' container and can be erected by three men without any mechanical assistance systems according to the manufacturer.
P.S.: Saab quotes the same shelters as being able to be set up by 4-5 men and a wheel loader in 12 hours. That apparently includes those six containers set up along the sides, which contain the actual machinery workshops and a generator.

The somewhat larger, more elaborate version by Saab is the Deployable Aircraft Maintenance Facility, which apparently is the same with a more shelter-looking hangar (transported in two containers) and eleven containers for workshops etc.



With this larger facility in addition to the main shelter arrangement there's a second one for the pilot locker rooms (!) and aircrew equipment - three containers arranged around a central roofed area - and separately set storage containers for spare parts and ammunition.

The main hangar covers over 600 m², i.e. with attached containers should be more like two hexbases by itself already.


Maingunnery

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #16 on: 17 July 2017, 12:38:10 »

Too bad we don't have MCVs (from C&C) in real life.

It would be nice if there was a vehicle that could become a hanger within minutes. 
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kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #17 on: 17 July 2017, 13:14:49 »
This gantry array makes me think mech bay.



Nominally meant to enlarge (civilian) aircraft hangars when docking aircraft too big for it. Google "Mobile Tail Enclosure" for other examples.

This particular one can be towed btw, it's basically a trailer.

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #18 on: 17 July 2017, 13:30:55 »
Too bad we don't have MCVs (from C&C) in real life.

It would be nice if there was a vehicle that could become a hanger within minutes.
Wouldn't be all that complicated to modify this into one...

Kovax

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #19 on: 17 July 2017, 16:01:44 »
With things like foamed epoxy (it already exists) and other futuristic composite materials, you could theoretically "inflate" a giant "balloon" building with some sort of advanced expanding foam, and have it harden over a couple of hours into a relatively strong solid structure.

Using shipping containers would make sense too.  Unpack your stuff from the dropships, convert the containers into temp housing, and at the end of the contract, put everything back in the containers and load those back into the dropships.

One might also consider using rammed earth to fortify the shelters, by bulldozing 5-10 meters of sloped earth up against them.  Not exactly underground, but the next best thing to it.  When you're done, you might consider re-leveling the site for the convenience of the owners, particularly if you're likely to work for them again in the future.

Colt Ward

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #20 on: 17 July 2017, 22:08:35 »
FWIW, I think the U.S. Army is now testing inflatable buildings. They look like Quonset huts, but the ribs and poles and stuff are actually airbags that are inflated. Found it: Airbeams.

That could also be a source of inspiration.

Large structures like that have been in use for at least 10 years IIRC, had a briefing in one and some training for night laser sights on M4s.
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mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #21 on: 18 July 2017, 07:59:42 »
One might also consider using rammed earth to fortify the shelters, by bulldozing 5-10 meters of sloped earth up against them.  Not exactly underground, but the next best thing to it.  When you're done, you might consider re-leveling the site for the convenience of the owners, particularly if you're likely to work for them again in the future.

Or if it's a good enough site, you could leave it in place for the planetary militia.


Large structures like that have been in use for at least 10 years IIRC, had a briefing in one and some training for night laser sights on M4s.
Ah. Thanks Colt. I wasn't sure if they'd been out that long. And we hadn't mentioned them before so...

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #22 on: 20 July 2017, 15:54:27 »
Going back to something I posted before three quarters of this thread were dumped in the database restore, i've found a company that produces prefabricated shelters and buildings out of simple cement-based fassade elements set into a steel truss frame. They build them in massive quantities for the Indian Army and some Indian state police forces, as in several hundred for housing personnel at air force bases or larger bases or small sets of a few houses for a local police station.

The interesting part is the sales pitch though: They advertise them as small and lightweight enough to be transported over any terrain - read if necessary by animal or hand. And they can be assembled fast. Supposedly 8-10 hours for 1000 square feet.





Perfect standin for quick-assembly light buildings in BT in my opinion. And the kind of thing that wouldn't look out of place e.g. for a militia base.

Colt Ward

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #23 on: 20 July 2017, 17:33:49 »
Yeah, I would look to take some of that stuff if I was going into a garrison/cadre contract and being told that they would not have any basing for my needs.  And the client would be footing the bill for such construction materials.
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Pat Payne

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #24 on: 20 July 2017, 23:15:48 »
FWIW, I think the U.S. Army is now testing inflatable buildings. They look like Quonset huts, but the ribs and poles and stuff are actually airbags that are inflated. Found it: Airbeams.

That could also be a source of inspiration.

Actually, the Army's been experimenting with inflatables since the '50s, with the MUST (Medical Unit, Self-contained, Transportable) units which were eyed as a replacement for the MASH units in Korea. The units saw limited use in Vietnam, before it became clear that the fuel consumption for the compressors (around 3,000 gallons per day of a rather dangerous blend of jet fuel) was impractical.

Kovax

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #25 on: 21 July 2017, 09:54:23 »
Actually, the Army's been experimenting with inflatables since the '50s, with the MUST (Medical Unit, Self-contained, Transportable) units which were eyed as a replacement for the MASH units in Korea. The units saw limited use in Vietnam, before it became clear that the fuel consumption for the compressors (around 3,000 gallons per day of a rather dangerous blend of jet fuel) was impractical.
That is why you want to have the inflatable shelter serve as the "form" for a more permanent material, ideally something inexpensive that can be sprayed or painted on, expand and harden, and then be abandoned or broken up when you move on.  The other alternative is modular pieces like the cement panels or stacked storage containers pictured previously, which can be reused with each new contract.

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #26 on: 21 July 2017, 11:34:11 »
That is why you want to have the inflatable shelter serve as the "form" for a more permanent material, ideally something inexpensive that can be sprayed or painted on, expand and harden, and then be abandoned or broken up when you move on.  The other alternative is modular pieces like the cement panels or stacked storage containers pictured previously, which can be reused with each new contract.

I just had a vision of an inflatable building going up then being covered by shotcrete.

Phobos101

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #27 on: 23 July 2017, 00:23:51 »
I was always a fan of the repair bays from Mechwarrior 4 - sort of a red collapsible gantry with olive drab tarps as  weatherproofing. very temporary but practical-looking.

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #28 on: 23 July 2017, 14:25:43 »
I just had a vision of an inflatable building going up then being covered by shotcrete.
Now giving that some googling...

USN manual for exactly that.

"To evaluate methods for the economical construction of shotcrete personnel shelters, shotcrete arches were cast over various forms: a Quonset arch, a flexible plywood shell, a pneumatic airform, and a compacted earth mound. Salvageable Quonsets were found to be the most economical."

Apparently the balloon... err, "pneumatic airform" wasn't rigid enough - "dimensional stability of the form was difficult to control".

Quonsets are those semicircular hangar buildings.

Now this part...
"The Quonset form is rugged, consequently traction power equipment (jeep, fork lift, etc.) may be used in pulling the form from the arch. [...] For the construction of arches of extreme length, the Quonset form may be modified by the addition of rollers or of wheels and track to serve as a traveling form."
is like they're telling us to make a form-giving trailer vehicle.

SCC

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #29 on: 29 July 2017, 01:58:49 »
Those tent things that people have posted pictures off? I want stats, a great way to avoid weather penalties for repairs to every thing but 'Mechs and DS

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #30 on: 29 July 2017, 09:47:25 »
Well, if you don't want it overblown and go for the straight-up rules...

Just stat it as a 2-hex, 2-level light hangar containing 3 mobile field base items. 15 crew needed, can tend to three vehicles or mechs. Modifiers +1 for location, but eliminates all planetary conditions. Cost is 55,200 C-Bills for the sealed hangar structure plus 450,000 C-Bills for the MFBs.
However: Construction time 9 days for the building if you only use a team with a vehicle and the later hangar crew.
The hangar structure itself, derived from a command shelter, could be statted to weigh an extra 20 tons for transport.


If you want it a bit more house-ruled, and perhaps make it predate a MFB item, with some penalties involved to offset the eliminated weather penalties?

2-hex, 1-level light hangar allowing a single vehicle up to 30 tons to be stored inside for maintenance as cargo. Add requisite maintenance cycle for readying as a time penalty for using such a structure. Similarly eliminates planetary conditions modifiers but maintains a +2 location modifier. Requires a 5-man minimum crew (better a full tech team). For logistics weighs 10 tons, containerized, and costs 27600 C-Bills. Construction time 2 days, could be lowered to 1 day with more manpower.

For a platoon repair base:
  • use six of the above 10-ton tents
  • outfit one tent with two 5-ton fuel cell power generators plus 18.2 tons of fuel for a week plus reserve
  • outfit one tent with an infantry bay plus storage for 20 tons of food and 5 tons of spare parts.
For full logistics that platoon repair base is then deployable in a set of 12 containers or 120 tons weight, and would require 12 hexes deployed on the ground. Can based on consumables remain in place for two weeks without resupply, can operate its maintenance functionality based on fuel for one week.

Power station needs serious construction time though. Might want to think about different options there too though. Possibly an external power generator pickup setup (5 tons + 2 tons structure) requiring a stationary vehicle to power the tents. That should be doable with 2 days for setup to match the light hangars. Lowers overall requirements to 9 containers / 87 tons, with 5 tents set up in the field.


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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #31 on: 19 August 2017, 16:01:18 »
« Last Edit: 19 August 2017, 16:06:26 by Highball »
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RunandFindOut

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #32 on: 19 August 2017, 19:55:58 »
Since everybody is talking about shotcrete I would like to point out that it isn't uncommon in some places to make a cheap vacation/hunting cabin by making a teepee out of heavy canvas and some trees cut down on site then spraying a layer of structural foam over it.  The ones that want something bearproof spray a layer of shotcrete over the layer of foam.
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Highball

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #33 on: 20 August 2017, 00:47:04 »
That is too much effort with shotcrete. You have to have something to put it on that is strong enough to hold the crete until it cures. you have to lug around all that equipment to spray the concrete, and you have to build the structure to apply the shotcrete too. It is just too labor intensive. I love new system ..... just bring a leaf blower, water and inflate. Then you have a rugged shelter in just 24 hours. And while I am not certain, there are additives you can mix into the water as you fill the bag to cause concrete to cure even faster to 90% or more of full strength in just hours. I cannot see any reason it would not work in this situation either.
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Dmon

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #34 on: 25 August 2017, 07:11:46 »
CGL.. Make us a sourcebook about this kind of thing please.

Then we can take it to HBS and get an RTS game next :-p
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kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #35 on: 28 October 2017, 10:49:15 »
What sort of things do you think should be available to Houses & mercs for such rapid deployments?  What might be the most common/popular?
Been playing around with that one a bit again.

Modified TRO3026 engineering vehicle : replace "equipment" with three lift hoists. Thus can carry six 10-ton containers as external cargo, and the lift hoists are usable in construction.
For the question "why an engineering vehicle" : "Engineers construct buildings" (TRO3026/3039).  ;)

Each container is a 8' cube that can be disassembled into six wall pieces 8' x 8' in size. Each container weighs 1 ton assembled and contains 9 tons cargo; the walls provide CF5 protection if you set it down like that.

In the field these wall pieces are reassembled to form a nice little rectangular building - in my example below 4.9m high, 9.8m long and 7.3m wide, with a sliding door in the front. Eight container walls form each side wall, six the back wall, twelve are used for the roof and eight are installed in front including four for the sliding doors. For camouflage purposes the building is covered in camo nets.

This building per se only has CF5 as a light hangar as well, since you can't use the walls like that for attaching anything; you could use it to store 15 tons in pallets on the ground - such as pallets of 500 kg in rows along the sides. Using a technique similar to HESCO we reinforce the walls with Earth though, upgrading them into a CF18 medium hangar - now capable of housing the same 54 tons that we brought in nominally.

The earth filling used with that HESCO equivalent is pretty discrete. Note: In all CF applications above I'm using a house rule in which the weight required in base construction materials for a building, not including special equipment, conforms to ( CF * 2.1% * housed_load ) rounded up to the next half ton. That house rule works very nicely with both real-life examples (e.g. containers, houses, even bridges) and Battletech itself (Collapsible Command Shelter).

Equipment used:
Code: [Select]
- Container Sides                  :  6,000 kg
- HESCO system weight              :    100 kg
- Crane equivalent for sliding door:  3,000 kg
- Cover Netting                    :     50 kg
- A-Frames and Reinforcers         :    850 kg
- Earth filling                    : 14,500 kg
- Net Cargo                        : 50,000 kg

Below i've used cargo movement rules under SO with multiple detail steps to install this building - it comes out at 8 hours, which while not conforming to CO presents a nice round figure (one maintenance cycle = one day work) for Battletech:
Code: [Select]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Site Survey/Preparation : (Notional)            ->  15 minutes (note: equivalent to a dug-out)
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Preparation          :  16 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Unloading Containers    : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->  75 minutes
Unpacking Cargo         : Manual  (0.8t/minute) ->  68 minutes (note: includes sorting equipment)
Disassembling Containers: Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  30 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Readying Equipment   : 174 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
(Placing Parts)         : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   2 minutes
A-Frame Assembly        : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   5 minutes
A-Frame Erection        : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   4 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Installing Frame     :  12 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
(Placing Parts)         : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   6 minutes
Roof Assembly           : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  11 minutes
Roof Mounting           : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   3 minutes
Wall Assembly           : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  20 minutes
Wall Erection           : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   5 minutes
Wall/Roof Connection    : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   3 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Installing Roof/Sides:  49 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
(Placing Parts)         : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   1 minutes
HESCO Assembly          : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   1 minutes
Earth Filling           : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  73 minutes
Earth Movement          : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->  19 minutes
Connection Exterior     : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  19 minutes
Connection Interior     : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  19 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Erecting HESCO Walls : 133 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
(Placing Parts)         : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   5 minutes
Front Assembly          : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   2 minutes
Door Pre-Installation   : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->  15 minutes
Door Assembly           : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   2 minutes
Front Erection          : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   1 minutes
Door Installation       : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->   1 minutes
Front/Roof Connection   : Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   1 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Installing Front     :  28 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Installing Cover Netting: Manual  (0.2t/minute) ->   4 minutes
Placing Cargo Inside    : Vehicle (0.8t/minute) ->  63 minutes
(Step Survey)           : (Notional)            ->   1 minutes [Finalizing           :  68 minutes]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Under CO rules the same building would take a week to build with a single squad of combat engineers and a vehicle - let's assume they would cast it in concrete instead then with more permanence in mind.


Now, what can we use that for - reasonably, if we include concerns beyond just tonnage:
  • a light vehicle bay (equipment goes on the side walls, center we'd have a nice hangar space for a light vehicle) + spare parts/fuel
  • six mechanized infantry bays (six vehicles should fit in those 70m² on the ground - and bay-grade housing for the 42 infantry should fit in a space above that) + supplies for 3 days
  • ten steerage quarters (each a 10m² room plus some common areas...) + supplies for almost 3 months
  • cargo storage (72 Euro pallets of 750 kg each on the ground, exactly halfway between the minimum and maximum load for each pallet...)
Replace supplies and such with a power generator of your choice if you want to, although that'd have to come completely separate.

FedRatCowboy

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #36 on: 04 November 2017, 04:38:41 »
Instead of generators that use fuel, do you think that solar panels and batteries would be as effective?
"War is Hell. Combat is a mother ******."  --General Tommy Franks, US Army

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #37 on: 04 November 2017, 07:53:57 »
Liquid ICE generators almost never make sense from their logistics, unless that's about the only thing you can get. Even solid fuel ICE generators are usually more effective if you have a supply for that on-site.

Solar panels in my opinion are effective mostly as a distributed power system for individual buildings that have the 3 tons for a minimum installation for their own use available and don't need their rooftops.

Logistics-wise, the optimum power generator building combines a fusion plant as small as possible with fuel cell generators and a small hydrogen tank, provided you have a water supply on-site (for fluff: even a small creek is sufficient, you need a flow rate of 6.25 l/s). Even a 1-ton fusion generator ideally produces 60 tons of hydrogen per day from that water, which can be used with sufficiently-sized FC generators to supply 50 hexes of buildings for free. The combination beyond a certain minimum size has a typically lower set-up time than a pure fusion generator and lower cost. Probably not quite rules-legal.

grimlock1

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #38 on: 11 November 2017, 23:01:46 »
Sweden uses these as aircraft hangars for deploying distributed bases:



Supposedly they fit in a 20' container and can be erected by three men without any mechanical assistance systems according to the manufacturer.
Fits in a 20' conex.  I believe that.
Can be assembled by 3 people without construction equipment. I buy that.

Can be put BACK into the conex box by anyone other than a magician or 8th Degree Origami master?  I call buffalo chips!

Those tent things that people have posted pictures off? I want stats, a great way to avoid weather penalties for repairs to every thing but 'Mechs and DS
  Why wouldn't you be able to have on the size of a mech?


As far as ease of assembly, do recall that we are talking about a universe with myomers.  The arch in a quonset type structure would be make of a series of hollow, interlocking segments with a myomer running  through the the middle. Apply voltage, the myomer tightens up, pulls the ends of the segments together, self centering joints make sure everybody is lined up properly and viola, a structural arch.  The joints could either include a self locking mechanism or wait for someone to come along and tighten some bolts. Once that's done, turn off the electricity, and move on to the next section.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.

Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?

Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.  --JadeHellbringer

SCC

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #39 on: 12 November 2017, 01:08:52 »
Liquid ICE generators almost never make sense from their logistics, unless that's about the only thing you can get. Even solid fuel ICE generators are usually more effective if you have a supply for that on-site.
Are you talking BT or RL?

Why wouldn't you be able to have on the size of a mech?
Too likely to blow over.

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #40 on: 12 November 2017, 08:50:23 »
Are you talking BT or RL?
BT.

The fuel requirements are prohibitive for fossil fuel if you take logistics into account. For a forward base you have to consider that you have to bring in every ton of fuel - and while fuel needs are low (on the scale of 1-2 tons per day per 5 hexes supplied) once you get into sustaining that forward base for just a few weeks you're quickly talking the equivalent of a battlemech in weight. It's fine if you can abstract BT-wise in that you're simply buying that fuel from a civilian contractor who ships it all the way to where it's needed, magically filling up your fuel tanks for just some money every week or so, but depending on scenario this often simply isn't a viable option.

Solid fuel ICE can be a more realistic option if you have vegetation on-site and can detail a team to cut down and move some trees into your depot. One can then quite simply cut down the logistics required to sustain operations to the supplies for that tree-cutting team.

grimlock1

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #41 on: 12 November 2017, 21:37:22 »
And while I am not certain, there are additives you can mix into the water as you fill the bag to cause concrete to cure even faster to 90% or more of full strength in just hours. I cannot see any reason it would not work in this situation either.
 
Surprisingly enough, sugar. Adding sugar to concrete will make it set faster. I'm not sure how much faster.  And adding table salt will slow the setting process without affecting strength.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.

Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?

Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.  --JadeHellbringer

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #42 on: 14 November 2017, 11:17:41 »
As far as ease of assembly, do recall that we are talking about a universe with myomers.  The arch in a quonset type structure would be make of a series of hollow, interlocking segments with a myomer running  through the the middle. Apply voltage, the myomer tightens up, pulls the ends of the segments together, self centering joints make sure everybody is lined up properly and viola, a structural arch.  The joints could either include a self locking mechanism or wait for someone to come along and tighten some bolts. Once that's done, turn off the electricity, and move on to the next section.

Or you could set up a solar panel to collect enough electricity to keep the myomer constantly powered. *shrug*

kato

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #43 on: 14 November 2017, 17:02:34 »
Adding sugar to concrete will make it set faster.
Sugar acts as a retarder in concrete, to the point where it can keep concrete from setting at all.

The traditional accelerator for concrete is calcium chloride, although that will corrode your reinforcement bars and interestingly is even outlawed in some countries for that reason.

grimlock1

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #44 on: 14 November 2017, 18:44:19 »
Or you could set up a solar panel to collect enough electricity to keep the myomer constantly powered. *shrug*
True but something about a building that requires power just to stay up bothers me on a deep visceral level.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.

Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?

Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.  --JadeHellbringer

mbear

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #45 on: 15 November 2017, 17:39:50 »
True but something about a building that requires power just to stay up bothers me on a deep visceral level.

I was thinking it would be more of a reinforcement system for the spans you suggested, but I see your point. Maybe we should equip the building with HarJel.

grimlock1

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Re: Modular Basing
« Reply #46 on: 15 November 2017, 18:23:32 »
I was thinking it would be more of a reinforcement system for the spans you suggested, but I see your point. Maybe we should equip the building with HarJel.
What about a hybrid system of inflatable structural members, with a fiber mesh inside the air chambers, that you then fill with expanding foam.  Pump the cavities full of air to expand them and erect the structure.  Then inject the expanding foam.  As the foam expands, it forces the air out through a relief valve. 

Trying to inflate directly with the foam could be dicey, at least in real life.  If something goes wrong, you have expanding foam spraying out, and that's never a good day.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.

Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?

Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.  --JadeHellbringer