Author Topic: Urban Combat Tactics  (Read 1576 times)

Death by Lasers

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Urban Combat Tactics
« on: 31 July 2017, 17:23:05 »
  One thing I haven't had many opportunities to do in Battletech is urban combat.  What are your thoughts on city fighting in Btech and what tactics do you use?  Do you find it useful to enter buildings for cover?  How is the gameplay in general?  Does it favor the defender disproportionally or can it work for a generic "destroy everybody" equal forces type game?
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Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #1 on: 31 July 2017, 20:23:59 »
Depends on the opposition. If you are policing against mob units like those described in the Reunification War you use level one chemical weapons like tear gas and jump infantry with snipers with rubber bullets should break up the mob unit. For more normal fights tanks and battle armor with TAG and Light TAG painting the enemy for homing , copperhead and semi-guided LRM and Mech Mortar rounds . The BV of lightly armored concealed trailers puts a lot of offensive power . A well defined defense in depth urban planning will most times will make them pay for every block taken. Urban defense in battletech revolves around how long ago the target area was built . If it was built before or at the beginning of the Star League then the target world was planned for efficient production and distribution not defense . Starting at the Second Succession War planning went toward better defenses and de centralized infrastructure . Most planets seem to be the old everything centralized so it cannot efficiently be defended so objective raids have a good chance to work . The militia on these worlds have to field units in huge numbers but can only send a tiny portion of it to intercept the enemy as the targets they have to defend a huge number of targets.  I could go on about gun emplacements or prepared hull down positions just outside the city that are 7 hexes apart . This gives a hover tank a +3 movement modifier and a +2 hull down position gives a + 5 total   modifier but each tactic is only very strong type of urban planning set up.



« Last Edit: 02 August 2017, 05:13:49 by Col Toda »

Sartris

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #2 on: 31 July 2017, 20:34:53 »
Vertical mobility and the ability to fire indirectly are important whether attacking or defending. Creating choke points with mines and infantry allows you to better dictate the area and terms of the battle. A hetzer, srm carrier, SM1, or other glass cannon parked in the ground floor of a building can create difficult choices or nasty surprises.

Colt Ward

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #3 on: 31 July 2017, 22:05:55 »
Urban combat tactics depends on the rules you are using and what you consider 'urban' terrain.

If you build a map like a modern city that is larger than the 16x17 phonebook and use double blind . . . without enough of the right forces both sides could stumble past each other without ever being spotted.  Especially if you use some of the advanced LOS & sensor rules.

I built 32x32 urban maps for MM that could be networked together (roads & buildings at edges merge) to create several 96x96 (or 3x3 of the maps) battlefields where two companies of mechs, company of armor, some BA and a company of infantry were facing roughly the same size force.  Light mechs would jump up on top of buildings that could hold them to see down streets, around some corners and into the few parks or other open areas.  They became a target for everything in range.  Infantry & BA also took up positions to see, played pathfinder to get through buildings to see if there was a ambush on the other side of the block- I think squad-sized infantry rule is the way to go in cities b/c you need the dispersion to cover the ground.

When I pushed the assault against a enemy in that city, my attack was spread out with a pair of lances backed up by armor in each of the 'north' 32x32 areas, all pushing south.  I sent my VTOLs and hover APCs forward with infantry & BA to attack the defender's infantry pickets while my mechs marched down the roads.  My opponent instead of trying to stop all the spearheads, concentrated his mechs & armor between the west and center spearheads, aimed at the west group.  I did not switch streets between blocks to avoid being predictable so once spotted, even though I killed the infantry LPOPs he still had a good idea of where targets were that he wanted to fight.  Once contact was made the center group moved to support but at their speed and being out of position they were not able to provide a lot of support, especially since I did not have many LRM mechs (left that to vehicles in open field battles).  I had a Zeus get a side and leg blown off, internals on the torso of a Orion as well as having the arm shot off, and torso armor on a Black Knight gone with some internals.  None of my tanks took bad hits b/c it was a congo line of Alacorn & 3 Schreks which kept that street clear.  My lucky break was taking the head off a Rifleman 5M that just poked out around a corner so it fell pretty much pristine.  The Zeus walked around a building to run into a Zhukov and some of the other hiding armor.  It got tore up, but motive'd the Zhukov and the rest blew out the armor.  While long range firepower is good when you get the straight away shots, walking around the corner and being instantly in something's short range is nasty so the damage piles on.  This was all done before MM allowed hidden units too!

It was A LOT of looking around to find the other side b/c my only BAP was off with other forces- makes me appreciate the MAD-9S's electronics in a line unit.  Ended up in control of the battlefield with a Cataphract 3D surrendered (hip damage, fallen & UAC/5 crit), headless Rifleman 5M, a Chimera that blew from its torso bomb, pair of burned up Goblin LRM (CAS dropped Inferno bombs), Zhukov that got its front blown in, and four Vedettes that were mobility mission kills.  Five of the defending mechs retreated with severe damage along with other lighter armor and a single Zhukov.

The battle forced me to re-evaluate what role infantry would play in my merc forces- I wanted to increase it b/c urban fighting can tear up your mechs faster than just about anything else b/c of the chance of short range ambushes.  Light armor and mech or motorized infantry need to screen mechs in urban environments if you are the one moving.  I really need to see about putting together a Blood Spirit campaign for Adders pushing into a city on York . . . the masses of irregular infantry and ProtoMech's outstanding abilities in the urban environment should Stalingrad the crap out of some Adder cluster.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #4 on: 01 August 2017, 00:20:00 »
I'd say it depends very heavily on what you are facing.

Personally, for me, I prefer sending in mechs supported by infantry and vehicles, keeping tight formations, with infantry sweeping and taking buildings ahead of my conventional forces and setting up ambushes and choke points, or even being an early warning system for the heavy elements.

The Mechs, preferably, would be using close combat weaponry, with a mix of flamers, plasma weaponry, machine guns, inferno and acid SRMs, A-Pods and B-Pods to deal with possible infantry ambushes, with things like Autocannons and lasers for more heavily armored targets. Same with the vehicles; I would happily sacrifice some armor or weaponry on most tanks in Btech to add some ability to fight infantry, which, in an urban environment, would be both one of your worst enemies and one of your greatest assets.

Of course, my preferred option is simply bombarding the area with Longtoms and Inferno-IV munitions, if I can afford to demolish the city until the enemy wisely surrenders, or moving in with the mechs and infantry after leveling several large tracts of land for survivors. And then rinsing and repeating until the enemy retreats, is completely killed off, surrenders, or the city is no more.
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Iceweb

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #5 on: 01 August 2017, 01:15:54 »
and acid SRMs

That may be the first time I have heard someone actually recommend acid SRMs. 
I'm not up on the latest rule changes, how effective is an acid designed to melt armor alloys on skin?

Kidd

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #6 on: 01 August 2017, 06:46:28 »
I do not play it much as scale issues as well as trying to see streets in hex plan completely throws me... it shouldn't but it does, sue me ;D

that said, I hope to play a scenario whereby a secondary objective is to preserve as much CF of buildings as possible. I can't work out yet how to fiddle the victory points, but it ought to be nice for a Terran Jihad battle :)

Jellico

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #7 on: 01 August 2017, 08:32:41 »
When someone says urban combat the next thing said is hidden units. So the first principle of urban combat is recon. This means infantry. Sensor rules mean the recon unit usually ends up a few hexes away from the hidden unit so the recon unit has to be totally expendable. That said, don't make it easy. Don't jump your infantry. Just walk through the buildings.

As for weapons? My favorite urban fighter is the Mars. People swear by the short range stuff. That just limits you. Urban combat is about using the limited lines of sight to isolate enemies and create firepower imbalances.
With a Mars I can sit offset on a crossroads and move to command long straight streets. At the same time I can use my infantry spotters to guide LRM fire onto my isolated allies wherever they might be.
Alternatively I want high speed. Vipers, Summoners, and Executioners are able to rapidly converge on isolated enemies and mug them in dark alleyways. Then retreat and so it again.

I have very little time for traditional city fighters like Urbanmechs, Hunchbacks, and Demolishers. They have great firepower but are so slow that they fight and die where they stand. They can try grouping together but it is not hard to isolate them with corners.

Finally buildings. Buildings absorb some damage nut they can also be brought down on you. Their main advantage is for infantry units who should use them often. Don't send large units into buildings unless you have to.

Crow

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #8 on: 01 August 2017, 10:03:02 »
Any recommendations on sending Protomechs into a city fight?
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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #9 on: 01 August 2017, 12:20:48 »
Any recommendations on sending Protomechs into a city fight?

Lemme put it this way. Here is the pantheon of urban combat.

Unchallengeable gods: Conventional infantry.

Lesser gods: Battle Armor.

Kevin Sorbo-style demigods: Protomechs.

Scantily-clad extras: Mechs, tanks, etc.
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Jellico

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #10 on: 01 August 2017, 20:14:49 »
I am less certain on BA. High ground MP BA come into their own in cities. Some like the Constable live and breath city fights.


The biggest issue with all infantry, armoured or otherwise is once they enter a building they are mutually immune to infantry scale weapons. So the best way to clear a building becomes dropping it with a tank or Mech.

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #11 on: 01 August 2017, 20:18:24 »
I think Protos are better than BA b/c they will have higher movement than BA typically and they can move through buildings like infantry.  I need to find a Adder Fan . . . I have the city maps . . .
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Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #12 on: 02 August 2017, 05:26:02 »
Infantry and Battle Armor are area denial units that have to be in place for maximum efficacy . Protomech speed tends to be used as either a vanguard forward picket along a chosen path of attack for heavy units providing some armed recon or to race to points of urban infrastructure before the defenders get battle armor and infantry get there and dig in . In that case they tend to be followed up by Omni mechs and elementals . Proto Mechs are a niche unit that are very good in it and not so good out of it.

Kidd

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #13 on: 02 August 2017, 05:33:27 »
In general I believe BA beat infantry pretty badly in almost all tabletop scenarios.

I have the city maps . . .
Could you scan or take a snapshot/screen capture of 'em? just want to see what the general layout is like. Since reading this topic I've been looking at European towns... might be interesting to fight some kind of 3x3 with a quaint old town and an objective only infantry can get at in the middle, rolling hills around, and combined arms forces for both sides...

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #14 on: 02 August 2017, 09:12:24 »
They are grids, each block is 3x3 of hexes . . . I will see what I can do to throw up a single one though I have something like 10 or more now.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #15 on: 02 August 2017, 16:32:28 »
I am less certain on BA. High ground MP BA come into their own in cities. Some like the Constable live and breath city fights.


The biggest issue with all infantry, armoured or otherwise is once they enter a building they are mutually immune to infantry scale weapons. So the best way to clear a building becomes dropping it with a tank or Mech.

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Death by Lasers

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #16 on: 02 August 2017, 17:41:23 »
  First off I love the replies. I've been getting more excited about using urban maps since they fixed the way infantry take damage in buildings in Megamek.  I'm starting to think infernos, artillery, and flamers (with the starting fire rules) might make brutal urban weapons with AE's ability to quickly level structures, infernos ability to kill infantry through hardened buildings, and flamers for starting fires.  In fact the Ignis might be a real urban killer with it's flamer arsenal.  Just roll it down the street with both right and left side flamers duct tapped to the "on" position and transform a neighborhood into a inferno in a matter of minutes.  Way too tedious for in person gameplay but a potentially fun strategy for megamek.

The biggest issue with all infantry, armoured or otherwise is once they enter a building they are mutually immune to infantry scale weapons. So the best way to clear a building becomes dropping it with a tank or Mech.

  Wait, are you sure about that?  I know Megamek represented it this way for the longest time but in the Total Warfare rulebook infantry in buildings take damage differently from other units.  In TW 175 if they are fired on by a unit within the same building they take full damage in light and medium buildings, 50% in heavy buildings, and 25% in hardened buildings plus a flat 50% from burst damage regardless of building type.  Even when fired on from the outside they take a certain percentage of the damage inflicted except in hardened buildings (TW. 171).  In the case of hardened buildings your best bet is to SWAT in some Rotties as Kit suggests (Firedrakes for the win!) or Mechanized MG infantry to bust down the door the clear the building. >:D

  On the other hand if a tank or mech busted down the door and entered the building hex I guess it would be invulnerable to infantry scale weapons unless I'm missing something.  The rules are little ambiguous if mechs and vehicles are protected by a building's CF from attacks originating within the same building.  I've always assumed you used the "Attacking Units inside Buildings" rules for damage but I'm starting to question that given the wording of the "Combat within Buildings" section.

  Actually, looking the TW urban rules I got an evil idea, what about using artillery cannons in cities?  Under the standard rules per TW. 174 (I don't think megamek represents this correctly yet) a Long Tom Artillery canon can one shot a hardened building into rubble! (60 CF dmg to floor hit + 80 CF dmg for the floors above and below + 40 dmg to floors above those for 180 CF dmg!!)  Plus in the example on pg. 174 AE weapons inflict their full damage to units inside buildings so even lesser artillery canons should be able to kill infantry without leveling the building.

  So as far as I have it right now if you want to take a city intact SWAT in some infantry to clear the buildings.  If you don't care about collateral damage artillery, infernos, and flamers can level and torch any offending buildings.  Double-blind rules also sound excellent for city fighting, in fact it seems like they make it almost an entirely different game :) 
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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #17 on: 03 August 2017, 07:16:20 »
  Actually, looking the TW urban rules I got an evil idea, what about using artillery cannons in cities?  Under the standard rules per TW. 174 (I don't think megamek represents this correctly yet) a Long Tom Artillery canon can one shot a hardened building into rubble! (60 CF dmg to floor hit + 80 CF dmg for the floors above and below + 40 dmg to floors above those for 180 CF dmg!!)  Plus in the example on pg. 174 AE weapons inflict their full damage to units inside buildings so even lesser artillery canons should be able to kill infantry without leveling the building.

The Rommel Howitzer and Phalanx Support Tank from TRO:Prototypes were invented for this exact reason. They go in and destroy strongpoints held by enemy forces. They have relatively low speed (3/5 and 4/6) but you're supporting conventional infantry so it's not really a huge problem.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #18 on: 03 August 2017, 20:54:26 »
That may be the first time I have heard someone actually recommend acid SRMs. 
I'm not up on the latest rule changes, how effective is an acid designed to melt armor alloys on skin?
Acid SRMs deal extra damage to infantry, approximately 1.5X. It's because you are hitting them with caustic acid. Literally nothing else.

And it's also not optimal in the least; It's just an alternative to Infernos, should you somehow not have any.

Then again, I've also used harpoon SRMs against infantry as a practical joke on tabletop before, so I've done the whole "Not optimal" thing quite a few times.
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Iceweb

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #19 on: 03 August 2017, 22:02:14 »
Then again, I've also used harpoon SRMs against infantry as a practical joke on tabletop before, so I've done the whole "Not optimal" thing quite a few times.

I love that :) 
I do hope your mechs were playing Whalers on the Moon every time they shot them.

Death by Lasers

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #20 on: 03 August 2017, 23:15:59 »
Then again, I've also used harpoon SRMs against infantry as a practical joke on tabletop before, so I've done the whole "Not optimal" thing quite a few times.

  Harpoon SRMs!?  *looks up in TacOps*  I now have the mental image of an Atlas with the corpse of a dead harpooned infantryman dangling from every SRM tube like some kind of perverse Christmas decoration.  One word comes to mind... metal >:D
« Last Edit: 03 August 2017, 23:17:40 by Death by Lasers »
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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #21 on: 04 August 2017, 08:57:18 »
  Harpoon SRMs!?  *looks up in TacOps*  I now have the mental image of an Atlas with the corpse of a dead harpooned infantryman dangling from every SRM tube like some kind of perverse Christmas decoration.  One word comes to mind... metal >:D

My unofficial history now has this: "During the Clan Invasion clever AFFC troops would use Harpoon SRMs against Elementals to make impromptu flails..."

Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #22 on: 04 September 2017, 08:47:40 »
Buildings can be armored so it is not impossible to see a 150 CF building with a 150 points of armor . So a long tom example a little skewed . At double damage doing 50 points of damage a shot it would take 6 direct hits to reduce the building . Building rating determines what percentage of the incoming damage transfers to the units inside it . Most heavy and hardened buildings are built just to increase it's chances of still standing after the battle so the people who work in  it can go back to work the next day . Intended pill boxes are also armoured. Urban planning can do many things one of which is built in ECM in a building so adjacent properties can have hidden units in or behind them .  Have the tallest  buildings with the best views over the combat map board be a light or very low medium CF building . Say a Spider Jumps To the roof of a level 6 building with a CF of 15  . Yes it gets to see many or all the hidden units but then the ground floor gets destroyed the building comes down and the Spider takes a 6 level fall  which would likely kill the mech . Good urban planning designed to be a roach motel and kill the attacker works wonders . LOS is your friend . You have spotters in stealth armor directing your indirect fire shooting from a -2 level hole in the ground surrounded by a level 4  hardened buildings in which the only way the enemy can get a spotter into position to see the gun emplacement is to jump or climb to roof of an adjacent building which has a 30 point command detonated minefield and puts them in a position to get Tagged . Yes this might permit them to live long enough to spot for counter indirect fire to destroy the gun emplacement.  I am currently experimenting with iOS Arrow IV trailers as well as LRM trailers and the idea of hidden iOS SRM trailers . Low armor cannot move  so the BV is almost all Offensive so should the scenario is balanced that way you win . Say you have a hidden trailer with 8 iOS SRM 4s 4 loaded with standard ammo and 4 with infernos the target likely eats 8 2 pt hits and + 16 heat or more. During weapon phase it can destroy an empty trailer or attack an enemy unit with a moment penalty and build up more Heat. The previous posts about doing rolling Barrages of artillery and incendiary weapons to destroy the city block by block until the city surrendered or no city remains has 2 problems with it . 1 cost of ammo to do that and the war crimes charges that come with doing that.
« Last Edit: 04 September 2017, 09:18:23 by Col Toda »

Guroburov

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #23 on: 28 September 2017, 18:48:55 »
All this reminds me of a game run at a convention back in the early 90s (pre-clan release).  My co-conspirator and I set up the 4X6 urban boards and photocopied the panels.  We set up a blind game in a large room with the teams in two corners and us in the middle on the master table.  The teams had a full company of battlemechs (3025) but no tank or infantry support.  Spotting was ruled strictly visual due to heavy ECM in the area.  They were on a search and destroy mission.  We'd watched most of these same players roaring around the battlefields all weekend until this game.  Change to urban and they became the most paranoid, cautious people on the planet.  We had both teams moving simultaneously to speed things up and we'd record who moved where and replicate the moves together on the master table to determine sightings.  They probed very slowly forward worried about being mousetrapped until the guy in the 35 ton light had a lightbulb moment.  Hey, he said, how much can I see from that level 10 building.  We told him he would get an invite to the GM table so he could see it all.  He literally jumped at the chance and launched to the top.  While at our table his mates helpfully pointed out the building in question was a CF10.  Yup, down he went and promptly took all the damage to his left leg ramming it up through his left torso and out the center.  Oddly, he still felt it was worth it.          :)  With the info he gave his team they finally rushed forward and won the day as the other team never pushed their pace and got ambushed just like they'd feared.

Simon Landmine

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #24 on: 29 September 2017, 18:27:36 »
With friends like that ...
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House Davie Merc

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #25 on: 29 September 2017, 23:06:29 »
I still play mostly 3025 but some of the oldest tools are still the most effective .

Infantry + LRM indirect fire .

Nothing special about it , but it's cheap and effective .

Why fight something face to face when you can easily drop a building
on it with very low to-hit numbers ?
If it doesn't enter a building then only allow  them to see your PBI .
( for the split second before the LRM's impact )

Just remember to bring something fast as a problem stopper .
« Last Edit: 29 September 2017, 23:08:36 by House Davie Merc »

Azakael

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #26 on: 30 September 2017, 15:40:30 »
I'm partial to a fast-moving, long range VTOL at high altitudes. *Especially* in a double-blind situation.

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #27 on: 30 September 2017, 19:20:13 »
If I must fight in an urban setting, ortillery is my first pick... :D

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #28 on: 30 September 2017, 23:33:07 »
If I must fight in an urban setting, ortillery is my first pick... :D

Yep.  Artillery (and when available Ortillery) is the true final word in urban combat.  Even if your scenario is set in a chronological era where limited warfare is the norm, the Succession Wars have left depopulated cities/ruins across the Inner Sphere.  Shattering entire city blocks isn't so big a deal if noone's lived there for centuries.

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #29 on: 01 October 2017, 06:05:11 »
Artillery and Ortillary may be the final word but too much collateral damage is the difference of being charged with war crimes or not . If you are a Mercenary unit that attacka and achieves the objective doing less damage than the company defending a target will convince the target to hire different defenders

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #30 on: 01 October 2017, 23:08:34 »
Acid SRMs deal extra damage to infantry, approximately 1.5X. It's because you are hitting them with caustic acid. Literally nothing else.

And it's also not optimal in the least; It's just an alternative to Infernos, should you somehow not have any.

Then again, I've also used harpoon SRMs against infantry as a practical joke on tabletop before, so I've done the whole "Not optimal" thing quite a few times.

Fragmentation SRMs should be easier to acquire than acid SRMs if you have the extra ammo bins. And Infernos will be setting fires, which becomes an issue if there are orders against demolishing the city.

Gonna agree that Thunder/FASCAM weapons are great at hampering enemy movement.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #31 on: 02 October 2017, 01:00:16 »
As I said, not optimal. Although Harpoon SRMs might be your safest bet, if you are that worried about trashing Mr.Steiner's storefront; Worst case scenario, you ruin the town china shop. Even if you'll only ever kill infantry.

After all, Fragments of steel can do really, really nasty things to anyone. Civilians included. Especially if one of your SRMs is unfortunate enough to go off in the second floor, in the kitchen of an apartment of a family who decided evacuating wasn't in their best interest, and had just sat down for dinner or were cowering in said kitchen;Now little Jimmy's an orphan and quadriplegic, thanks to the opfor. Point is, the Civilians should've left a long time ago; And depending on the faction, they might not care what happens to Mom and Pop civvies, or anyone who isn't them. Such as pirates, or exceptionally barbaric commands.

EDIT;

Another thing to consider is 31st and 32nd century fire safety. I'm not 100% sure how well automatic fire suppression systems work around then, but I'd imagine most cities have failsafes in order to prevent an entire district going up in flames from anything that isn't massed fire-based artillery bombardment. And the fact that most buildings would be made of ferrocrete or nonflammable materials certainly helps. Not that I know anything about Battletech City planning.
« Last Edit: 02 October 2017, 01:03:29 by Caedis Animus »
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Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #32 on: 02 October 2017, 06:01:19 »
The problem with inferno and other incendiary ammo is a rules of engagement question . I would assume that most high tech buildings commercial , military or industrial areas would have a Haylon gas fire suppression systems which would register is a person's ID badge ia present and if the employee's badge is registering the RFID chip in the portable emergency exphiltration Oxygen canister before the system eliminates the Oxygen feeding the fire . Residential would not have anything of the sort . Fire retardant materials everywhere ect . It works grrat once maybe twice before it stops working altogether . As for Uban Planning that question would revolve around when was the world Colonized and for what purpose .

JadedFalcon

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #33 on: 03 October 2017, 02:39:43 »
Apart from the previously mentioned armored buildings, is there anything in the rules to simulate fire suppression systems?

The issue with Inferno SRMs and other incendiaries is that they'll likely overwhelm the fire suppression system of most buildings, especially if the world isn't subject to constant raiding or sustained border engagements. But I'm not an expert on incendiary munitions so I couldn't tell if they burn hotter than most residential or industrial fires.

On the subject of ortillery, are there any advantages to orbital bombardment over traditional artillery? I'm asking for a warrior from another Clan.

Major Headcase

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #34 on: 03 October 2017, 04:00:41 »
  Close, physical, combat. Hatchetman, Axemen, Charger Kamikaze, Archer wielding a 10 meter length of I-beam, a Jeager swinging a Chinese cargo ship like a Jose Canseco baseball bat... 😁
  I play in cities a lot since it's my main home game terrain collection, and I have had the best success with very high very mobile aggressive maneuvers. Knife fighting range. Use the buildings and never be afraid to go through them if you have to. I've only gotten stuck on a couple of occasions. Maybe its mental effect makes it more effective than it should be, because my opponents always seam to act very cautious when the game begins, and when I start rushing in, in cross-supporting units, it steals the mental initiative, and unless I screw up badly (happened a couple times... 😉) I can ride that for half the game and do tremendous damage and disrupt his/her plans completely.

Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #35 on: 03 October 2017, 06:19:34 »
Ortilarty is a trade off . Just about an automatic breach of the Ares Conversation and perceived as a war crime. As for going through buildings as both the attacker I minimize collateral damage as a point of pride as a defender I supposed to minimize collateral damage period . Going through buildings unless strictly necessary tactically to make the overall combat shorter and reduce an even greater amount overall damage to the city . If you are mercenaries depending on ERA you are expected to adhere to the Ares Convention .

Major Headcase

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #36 on: 03 October 2017, 07:01:50 »
The Ares Conventions aren't really "rules" per se. They're more like, guidelines... 😉

Weirdo

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #37 on: 03 October 2017, 09:38:23 »
I'd say fire suppression systems are factored into the background of the 'starting fires' rules. After all, when you consider the sheer amount of energy most mech-scale weapons put out, it really should be easier to ignite stuff. I'd just assume that a failure on the ignition roll doesn't mean you didn't light anything on fire, it means you didn't create enough fire to overwhelm the suppression systems.

On the subject of ortillery, are there any advantages to orbital bombardment over traditional artillery? I'm asking for a warrior from another Clan.

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Col Toda

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #38 on: 05 October 2017, 05:40:55 »
As for the Ares Convention I did say depending on ERA . The Star League before the Reunification War . Mercenaries after Wolf's Dragoons practically unionized the trade.  Kept to for the most part during Clan Invasion Era as a means of reducing escalation abs where it was broken then consequences happened . Used for toilet paper during the Jihad . Enforced whenever politically expedient during the Republic or Dark Age . If your employer's find it easier to throw you under a bus for exceeding your mandate and violating rules of engagement it is easier to outlaw the unit than pay it the balance of your fee.  Regardless of legal issues if given a choice of who to hire to defend a position would you hire a unit that did more damage to the real estate than the attacking force ? Fighting in Urban areas is tough . Clear rules of engagement plus making sure your liaison officer does not die is the best way to defend yourself . Many scenario's are written that defections happen when you push the collateral damage too high .

grimlock1

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #39 on: 14 November 2017, 20:44:06 »
the guy in the 35 ton light had a lightbulb moment.  Hey, he said, how much can I see from that level 10 building.  We told him he would get an invite to the GM table so he could see it all.  He literally jumped at the chance and launched to the top.  While at our table his mates helpfully pointed out the building in question was a CF10.  Yup, down he went and promptly took all the damage to his left leg ramming it up through his left torso and out the center. 

Rooftops are great vantage points but always be aware of the CF...  A couple medium lasers to the ground floor and that rooftop was strong enough to hold your Executioner....
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grimlock1

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #40 on: 14 November 2017, 23:27:21 »
Oh, and speed!

The fluff talks about slow mechs being good/tolerable in cities.   Wrong. It's tight, nasty terrain with a lot of obstacles. Running on pavement is chancy.  Sooner or later, you'll fail a PSR, fall on your keister and slide right through the front of a building. 

I'm rarely right... Except when I am.

Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?

Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.  --JadeHellbringer

mbear

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Re: Urban Combat Tactics
« Reply #41 on: Today at 10:59:59 »
Oh, and speed!

The fluff talks about slow mechs being good/tolerable in cities.   Wrong. It's tight, nasty terrain with a lot of obstacles. Running on pavement is chancy.  Sooner or later, you'll fail a PSR, fall on your keister and slide right through the front of a building.

Especially if you're playing against Weirdo and he brings Fluid Guns with Oil Slick ammo...

...and uses Thunder munitions to mine the hex your unit will slide into...

...which will be right in front of a Demolisher.