Clan grand melee tips

[Stallion12]

So a local group is doing a clan mech ffa, 2500 bv, 3055 timeline, what are some good choices?

[Jaim Magnus]

I presume you mean 3055.

Stormcrow, Pouncer, Timber Wolf, Warhawk are all solid choices.

[Stallion12]

Yea, fixed it. I meant 3055. I was leaning g towards timber wolf, what varient is best? Within 2500 bv that is.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Go with a mobile mech that's got ER PPCs or ER Large Lasers.  The point is to survive, not deal damage.

I would not use a Mad Cat: most variants are at or over 2500 BV without factoring in pilot and gunnery skills, and it's a good idea to have a 2 gunnery value on your mech: only the S, B, and E variants are under 2500 BV and you're still stuck with a 4/5 pilot.  I'd consider a Fenris Prime: you can get a 2/5 gunnery/pilot score and just run around sniping with your ER PPC.  Let the slower, more heavily armed mechs beat each other up for you while you just focus on making yourself as difficult a target as possible.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Mobility (preferably jump), armor, little or no ammo/explosive internals (don't forget to dump that ammo), pulse and/or TC accuracy or lower G/P skills, and some not inconsiderable luck is the proven formula for survival to the last few combatants.  These are all under 2500 BV2.

Vapor Eagle
Black Python
Nova S
Gargoyle D
Ebon Jaguar B
Timberwolf S
Stooping Hawk C
Fenris D
Coyotl A
Battle Cobra Prime

[JadeHellbringer]

I'll throw in a vote for the Viper B. The BV is awfully high, which sucks, but moving 8/12/8 means you're going to be a pain to hit- so people likely won't bother firing at you needing 11s if they can hit someone else at 8s, and if they DO shoot they'll likely miss. In return, you have... well, a couple of light weapons that no one will much care about, but that ER PPC is a beast to get hit with. You'll run hot if you jump and fire, but you can just as easily hop away into cover next turn and cool down if you so desire.

It's a carefully-used dagger as opposed to something like a Ryoken-B that is more of a simple 'close and fire!' Mech, so it takes some thinking and forethought to use it well, but it's hard to beat if you're careful. (Then again, Clan thinking sort of dictates "KILL ALL TEH THINGZ!", so if you want to play in-character as a bloodthirsty, glory-obsessed warrior it's not the best choice.)

[Colt Ward]

I would add a few more . . .

Huntsman Prime (2034) and H (2495) . . . you can get away with the H b/c of electronics, it jumps and it has a TC for the two best guns in the game- cERLL.  Prime jumps and has 2 LPL.

Then my personal favorite . . . Stooping Hawk C, 2 cERLL- one in CT and one in head- SFE, TC and 5/8/5 all @ 2435.

[Kovax]

Remember that at 4/5 skill, Speed = Armor.  At 2/3 skills, only Armor = Armor.  Clan Pulse means Speed =/= Armor, because those 4/5 pilots are effectively shooting as 2/5.  It depends on what you're facing.

I've taken fast mediums (Fenris, Dragonfly) into grand melee matches, with mixed results depending on the other 'Mechs.  In one case, another player took a RFL-IIC, and proceeded to core my 'Mech from close to maximum range, despite modifiers.

[JadeHellbringer]

I would add a few more . . .

Huntsman Prime (2034) and H (2495) . . . you can get away with the H b/c of electronics, it jumps and it has a TC for the two best guns in the game- cERLL.  Prime jumps and has 2 LPL.

Then my personal favorite . . . Stooping Hawk C, 2 cERLL- one in CT and one in head- SFE, TC and 5/8/5 all @ 2435.

I'll back all of these, but that Hawk in particular is disgusting. Blow off both side torsos and the arms to go with them? Meh, who cares? Stereo large lasers for all!

[Iron Mongoose]

As to speed is armor vs armor is armor... on the one hand, the best warriors traditionaly don't go into the meele, so in universe you'd expect a lot more average or below average types (which in the Clans still means plenty of 3s and a few 2s).  More over, speed can still become range, which in combination with a plethora of other targets can work as armor.  If you're 19 hexes out in a mech that just jumped six, even if you're facing down an elite but dezgra warrior in a Vapor Eagle and they could take a shot, chances are they'll just shoot the Timber Wolf who walked at 13. 

On that note, the meele is not really a place to show your honor as a warrior.  You're already on the outside anyway, and so are your opponents.  I wouldn't hesitate to use some mech you'd never dream of taking most days, like a Vapor Eagle or Ice Ferret D or Incubus (which one has the LPL? the 1 or the 3?) or something like that.  You still have to have a mech that can win one or two duals, since even if you can run around and not be shot till the end, you have to kill who ever does emerge from the meele. 

It wasn't spelled out if your skill points would come out of that avalable BV or not.  If 2500k is just for the mech and your pilot will be the skill they are, that might change the equasion, since there are a few solid, mobile, long ranged heavies that fit that bill.  If not, I'd pick more skill than less, since in later rounds it will become more essental than in a meele (if you intend to play more rounds).

[Colt Ward]

For the Grand Melee the biggest thing is surviving others . . . which means using terrain- so speed or jumping- to keep moving as the hardest mech to hit.  While the 5/8/5 meds I suggested are IMO the slowest that I think would qualify as a Grand Melee mech, they each have reasons to select them over a 6/9/6 or faster.  Your plan should be to let everyone else rip each other apart, working around the edges to get in some ranged killshots.

Btw, I did not see anyone mention it, but one of the 7/11/7 or whatever Hellions would work . . . as would a Crimson Langur.  The Prime is 7/11/5 with a ERLL, 2 HML, TC and LAP @1952 BV.  The B is 7/11/5 again, ATM9 and 3 ERMLs but the BV is higher at 2210.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Guys, remember that the OP said that the melee is occurring in 3055, so mechs like the Crimson Langur aren't yet available.

Though if you're looking for a 7/11/7 medium, the Grendel is.

[Colt Ward]

Makes sense why I forgot to include the Langur now . . .

I suppose you could also look at the Black Lanner . . . its just weird for a Falcon mech that it does not jump.

[Louie N]

Summoner D is how I won my grand melee

[JadeHellbringer]

Makes sense why I forgot to include the Langur now . . .

I suppose you could also look at the Black Lanner . . . its just weird for a Falcon mech that it does not jump.

Yeah, it's not one I'm a fan of as a result- same with the Fire Falcon. I mean, you can GET them to jump, but particularly in the Lanner's case it already has a pretty anemic weapon loadout usually due to that limited pod space- using some of that for jets doesn't help the cause. (Pity we don't seem to build other medium Omnimechs at that point in history though, unless you count the Cougar as wanting to be a medium. My kingdom to have Novas or Huntsmans!)

[Colt Ward]

I think the Lanner is fine . . . you just have to work with what it can do . . . it means like the Timberwolf its main guns need to be energy.  Its going to be a skirmisher rather than trying to hold the line like 5/8 mediums.  Problem is it really needs to be run like a oversized Phantom H if you want to stack weapons on it- Heavy Med or Small, massed SRMs, maybe MGs . . . when AP Gauss come out, they work for the design too though not as efficient as SRMs.  But its also not a great way to survive b/c you are a bit slower and if you gain too much heat you cannot jump away.

So the other alternative is cERLLs or ERPPCs with some back up LRMs or ATMs, and staying at a distance to slowly kill a target.

[Stallion12]

Forgot to mention, gunnery/pilot is 3/4 for free, I don't know if that changes suggestions.

[Iron Mongoose]

It does, to a degree.  If 3/4 is free, can you or others pay for 2/3 or even 1/2? (I'd expect most 1/2s would have been nominated for one of the other 31 spots, but a really dezgra Aiden Pryde type might slip through the cracks).

At 3/4, speed and range as survival tools are relitively viable.  Yes, you still have to watch out for TCs and pulse lasers (both seperately and together), but a running Fire Moth or Fire Falcon or Phantom or Black Lanner is going to be hard to tag with a basic LL or PPC at medium or long range, and anyone who slows down for a better shot at you or others is likely to be blasted in return for their trouble.  You have to work a bit harder than at 4/5, but its a lot easier than at 2/3.

Alternitively, since you don't need to pay (as much) for your own gunnery, picking a mech closer to the cap is more viable (both for you and your enemies).  If you had to pay for all your own skill, I'd have said pick a light mech at 1.4k and get a gunslinger type.  As is, I'd still find a way to get to 2/3, but that's just something I value, so you need to think about your style and sense of value.

[GermanSumo]

go for a close combat mech with standard engine (best option) and really high damage output (really good option). if you prefer to not have heat issues, use a cold mashine for constant alpha strike output. mobility is optional but not the most important. heavy clan should be optimal for endurance - mobility balance. :D 11 years later the burrock would be my weapon of choice. one of the thors could be a great option. i took the one with the acboom-ultra for maximised firepower, mobility and armor. and i find they are not priority targets due to them being perceived undergunned. skinny mediums and light clan mechs CAN dish out well, but they usually lack the endurance needed for a grand melee. and EVERYBODY will love to make a sneak shot on any light suddenly being on a reasonable to-hit number. :D

try to avoid getting into a fight with the assaults, though. these will be able to withstand your damage. AND avoid taking one of the assaults. too sluggish to avoid fire from basically anybody. and slow moving assaults are ALWAYS targets of opportunity.

p.s.: i KNOW this is quite different advice than what you got before :) but take it from an old experienced 3055 player. i went through some grand melees back then. a solid heavy will do the trick :)

[Stallion12]

I don't think we csn, I'll ask though, I think it's a plain 3/4 for everyone.

[Stallion12]

Can't change the 3/4, advancements are earned based on how well we do.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Kingfisher seems like a good choice to me: B, C, or D

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The issue with the Kingfisher is that in a melee you really don't want to wind up stuck with a slow moving mech that's only got token long-range weaponry against a bunch of faster mechs that have better long-range firepower.  They can just dance around sniping while you're forced to vainly attempt to catch them.

[Vonshroom]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

[Vonshroom]

Can't change the 3/4, advancements are earned based on how well we do.

Actually you can.... with a targeting computer and pulse lasers! ;)

[THUD]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

This. 100% agree.

[Stallion12]

Actually you can.... with a targeting computer and pulse lasers! ;)

very true.

[Stallion12]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

Is Black Python 3 ok? It's the only one who fits the allowed bv.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Is Black Python 3 ok? It's the only one who fits the allowed bv.

No, those heavy lasers, while delivering more damage, incur a +1 targeting roll modifier, making it harder to hit enemy units.  The 3 also only jumps 4 hexes.  Plus, I don't think it exists circa 3055.

It was my mistake to put the Black Python on my list.  It is outside the BV2 limit.  (I must have been looking at BV1.)  I crossed it out above.

Given that everyone's skills are fixed at 3/4, I'd go with the Vapor Eagle (Goshawk).  The Eagle has 6/9/6 movement, which means you can dance at the extreme ranges of your opponents' weapons and seek cover for most of the match and force +3 movement modifiers on them while doing so.  It has 9 tons (173 points) of ferro armor, which is very good for a 55-ton mech and should shrug off a few lucky hits.  And the Eagle carries a large pulse laser for sniping at long range through most of the match and three medium pulse lasers for taking down opponents at the end of the match.  The -2 targeting roll from these pulse lasers will offset your average 4 gunnery and your running/jumping movement.  And it comes in under the limit at 2,368 BV2.

There aren't many downsides to the Eagle but one is that it carries Streak SRM-2s, machine guns, and their associated ammo.  You need to watch the armor around those ammo bins and dump the ammo when they're in danger of being breached.  You may even want to dump it on the very first turn if you think you'll forget.

The other downside to the Eagle is that it is largely a finesse mech.  It can bully lights and some mediums but it just can't lumber into the middle of a firefight against a bunch of heavies or assaults and expect to last more than a couple or few turns.  If that's your style of play, then take one of the bigger, slower designs from my list.  But if you're comfortable staying away from other mechs, jumping behind cover, taking potshots for most of the match, and only seriously engaging towards the end to finish off an opponent or two, the Eagle is about as good as it comes for canon designs in that era.

Finally, the Eagle, while very mobile, is not the absolute fastest design.  Watch for speed freaks with close-ranged weapons.  There's always someone with something like a Fire Moth D who, if they get the initiative, will run in behind you and try gut your rear armor.

Best of luck.  Do your Bloodhouse proud.

[Iron Mongoose]

The Vapor Eagle, or really any Clan TC/Pulse laser mech, is nearly never bad tactical advise (though it can be bad social advise, since people tend to despise such mechs).  I my self spoke up for it, since at least in cherictor the Grand Melee is less of a place to make friends than any place else.  If you have the patiance to keep the range open and speed up (remember that a TC of 7 is vastly better than a TN of 10, but 4 isn't that much better than 7) and just try and influance the battle at the margins until the end (and hope the eventual winner isn't some monster like a Kingfisher that people managed to ignore all battle) you probably have as good a chance as any other.

Of course, is that what you want?  If I'm a Clan warrior trying for a long shot chance to pass his genes on (and by the way move up dramaticly in the social pecking order) then I'll take the Vapor Eagle (or an omni customized to a similar configuration; do you have such an option?) but if I'm a board game player looking for a challange or to have a good time with my friends, maybe I leave it at home.

The Fire Moth D was named above, and with 3/4 pilots if you're feeling very daring and very, very lucky it could carry the day.  Keep to medium range and +4 movement mods, and opponents should be looking at 9+ TNs to hit you.  Of course, one lucky PPC or GR can wreck your day, but with the ability to run 20 and tag some fool with five TCed ER MLs, you can ruin days right back.  I also like the Phantom C (right? with the pile of ER SLs and the TC).  Less range hurts, as does less speed, but it's got way more armor so it takes several lucky hits to put you down, and with less range you're less of a threat, which can discourage pot shots.  Either can dart in an just assassinate a vulnerable mech at will during the battle, and pick off enemies one by one.