Survival subskill, how to know what to choose?

[Veretax]

So most skills, you can pick and have some idea that you might use them, and how, but when I look at for example Special Forces field which has Survival/Any, If you are forced to pick a subskill, how do you make that choice? I'm curious what others experience is with this?

On one hand, I could consider where the training took place as a factor in choosing this skill (if its on a world with deserts then desert, arctic, arctic, if there are mountains it might be in mountains, etc.)  Or do you ask your GM if there's a target world environment you should consider?  (Note this doesn't work so well if you are running a campaign with the same characters on different worlds, but that might improve the chance of using this skill.)

What do you guys think?  At the moment I'm working on a DC Character, Born and Trained on Dieron for example.

[monbvol]

Arid survival training would be my go to.  It is the hardest to survive in with the fewest resources to help someone out so having some skill in it would be rather wise.  Most of the rest you could probably get by with a lot less training.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I'm not a fan about ATOW making Survival:Desert have no crossover whatsoever with say Survival:Jungle.

I'm of the opinion it should be houseruled so that all survival skills are one skill.  If you have a Luke Skywalker character it might make sense that he has Survival:Desert and no other kind of survival skills, but it quits making sense if you're playing a character that is a graduate of an interstellar empire's survival school.

It doesn't make any sense at all for a training program in the BTU to train you ONLY in one kind of environment.  Heck, given the ubiquity and necessity of space travel, Survival:Space ought to be part of the basic training regimen of every professional army.  Furthermore if you're playing a mechwarrior (or spy, or special forces operative, etc) you can expect to be deployed to many different worlds, where you can then be redeployed to any climate that exists on that world in the span of minutes/hours.  Being hopeless in all but one or two kinds of environment makes very little sense unless your entire military career is expected to take place at one specific base.  (which CAN be the case for infantry or petty noble forces I suppose...)

[Daryk]

Hmmm... mentioning "Survival: Space" makes wonder if it's worthwhile to house rule the ability to extend life support with a successful roll.

[monbvol]

I'm not a fan about ATOW making Survival:Desert have no crossover whatsoever with say Survival:Jungle.

I'm of the opinion it should be houseruled so that all survival skills are one skill.  If you have a Luke Skywalker character it might make sense that he has Survival:Desert and no other kind of survival skills, but it quits making sense if you're playing a character that is a graduate of an interstellar empire's survival school.

It doesn't make any sense at all for a training program in the BTU to train you ONLY in one kind of environment.  Heck, given the ubiquity and necessity of space travel, Survival:Space ought to be part of the basic training regimen of every professional army.  Furthermore if you're playing a mechwarrior (or spy, or special forces operative, etc) you can expect to be deployed to many different worlds, where you can then be redeployed to any climate that exists on that world in the span of minutes/hours.  Being hopeless in all but one or two kinds of environment makes very little sense unless your entire military career is expected to take place at one specific base.  (which CAN be the case for infantry or petty noble forces I suppose...)

*nod*

I've often thought that instead of Survival having sub-skills they are instead forcing a skill specialization.  There are just too many common techniques.  So it is something I am not opposed to as a house rule.

[Veretax]

I might decide to house rule on that, but since this is the first time I've used A Time of War I want to give the system as it is a chance first.  I think that makes sense.

Although I agree, mountain vs forest for example.  I guess to me I grew up in an area that was both.

I saw a few people with characters with survival: Urban here on the forums..  Which is one I'd almost dismiss if I hadn't seen it on someone's sheet.

[skiltao]

do you ask your GM if there's a target world environment you should consider? 

I would absolutely start with this. One hopes that soldiers trained for a certain area would get assigned to that area, or contrariwise, that soldiers assigned to an area would get trained for that area.

Note this doesn't work so well if you are running a campaign with the same characters on different worlds, but that might improve the chance of using this skill.

The other folks here have made some good points about specialization and overlap. (I think the previous edition of the RPG allowed for some substitution between closely related skills, like some of the piloting specialties or maybe the technician specialties, but I don't remember if A Time of War carried that idea forward.)

When you transfer to a new climate, I'd hope that your characters get at least a crash-course in any new survival skills. (You could look into the XP costs for training time and changing specializations, but again, I'm not familiar with how A Time of War might handle that.)

Sorry I don't have more solid advice on this.

[idea weenie]

Hmmm... mentioning "Survival: Space" makes wonder if it's worthwhile to house rule the ability to extend life support with a successful roll.

Add in some Engineering rolls, where you keep one side of the ship away from the sun, and loop some hose out.  Let the water freeze out and figure out a way to return that to the ship, then get the CO2 to freeze out and store it somewhere cool (or just jettison it).  Or hope someone has a fish tank with algae (Biology rolls to make sure you get edible stuff).

[Jackmc]

It doesn't make any sense at all for a training program in the BTU to train you ONLY in one kind of environment. 

Don't bring common sense to a discussion about bureaucracy. 

I live and work in Alaska (A massive place with about 6 different types of biomes).  Survival training is a core class at the state's Public Safety Academy, and because said academy is in Sitka, AK (an island in SE AK), the training focuses how to survive in a coastal temperate rainforest, complete with beginning the 3 day practical by being cast adrift in a life raft close to an uninhabited island.  I trained at said academy, but have always been stationed in Taiga and Tundra environments.

-Jackmc

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Don't bring common sense to a discussion about bureaucracy. 

I live and work in Alaska (A massive place with about 6 different types of biomes).  Survival training is a core class at the state's Public Safety Academy, and because said academy is in Sitka, AK (an island in SE AK), the training focuses how to survive in a coastal temperate rainforest, complete with beginning the 3 day practical by being cast adrift in a life raft close to an uninhabited island.  I trained at said academy, but have always been stationed in Taiga and Tundra environments.

-Jackmc

Having lived in AK for a few years myself, I'd hazard a guess that the state's academy focuses on the environments that most people live in.  E.G the coasts.  In comparison, while being stationed in Alaska I was briefly involved with the Air Force's Arctic Survival School.  Yes, that survival training focuses solely on arctic survival... but A: that's an advanced course designed for select personnel only, making it more akin to skill specialization training than general skill training in RPG terms, and B: still displaying the problem with ATOW's survival skills all being separate skills because forest and mountain training are still covered in that "specialized" arctic school.

Mentioning the various biomes of a region illustrates part of the problem with canon rules.  If you're on a forested mountain, but it's NOT arctic, your arctic survival on the forested mountain in the supercold still be translating somewhat.  yes yes there's different flora/fauna in the different biomes and knowing how to build a snow shelter is pointless when there's no snow but still, quite a large amount (if not most) of the skill base carries over.

[idea weenie]

SPI's Universalis had a similar issue, where it wanted to know the environmental modifier if you were in your native environment or outside it.

Here is the page with the chart they made for it.

So what could be done is a similar chart where players mark what sorts of environments they have had training in, and each 'step' farther away from that training they make it 1 pt harder for target numbers.  Adding in another training creates a new 'peak' in the chart, and numbers are adjusted accordingly.

For example, using the 'Mountains' row in the chart, the PC has received training in 'Cratered' type terrain.  Their part of the chart would read: 3_4_3_2_1_0_-1.  The partner selects partial training in Forest Mountains, and their chart looks like -3_-2_-1_0_1_2_1

Later on, they cross-train, to bring each other up to speed.  By the power of their charts combined, it gets redone as follows:
#_4_#_#_#_2_# (their respective trainings are put in)
3_4_3_#_#_2_# (neighbors of highest are higher than others)
3_4_3_2_#_2_# (neighbor is reduced by 1 again, and matches another number)
3_4_3_2_1_2_1 (neighbors are reduced by 1 again, and the Survival chart is complete for both characters)

Obviously if we could use the original 2-D chart it would be much easier compared to using multiple 1-D charts

It also opens itself up for exploitation where someone will choose to avoid extreme training since it is better to be as close to the middle as possible:
(4_3_2_1_0_-1_-2  vs  1_2_3_4_3_2_1)

Others might figure that since living in the central areas is inherently easier and there will likely be locals, some extreme training might be useful.