Author Topic: c3i tactics  (Read 533 times)

Crow

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c3i tactics
« on: 05 September 2017, 07:05:05 »
Does anyone have any articles written or thoughts that they'd like to share about this?
« Last Edit: 05 September 2017, 07:21:30 by Crow »
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Challenger

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #1 on: 05 September 2017, 11:30:16 »
While I've never used C3i, I would assume that it functions effectively the same as basic C3 networks.

I personally like to have 2 Spider/Ostscout style scouts upfront with the rest made up of medium/long range fighters that are fast enough to keep the range open. Only thing I would add is don't completely abandon close range weaponry, something will inevitable get through if you only bring long range guns to the fight.

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Sartris

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #2 on: 05 September 2017, 12:53:21 »
While I've never used C3i, I would assume that it functions effectively the same as basic C3 networks.

I personally like to have 2 Spider/Ostscout style scouts upfront with the rest made up of medium/long range fighters that are fast enough to keep the range open. Only thing I would add is don't completely abandon close range weaponry, something will inevitable get through if you only bring long range guns to the fight.

Challenger

It's a little more fluid because you don't have to defend a master against headhunting / ecm. I had much more success with C3 when I stopped trying to force my spotters into the middle of things. Lots of BT games are won at medium range.

Col Toda

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #3 on: 05 September 2017, 20:05:41 »
C3i weight is too much for light mechs as some of them like the Spider has 2 medium pulse lasers so installing 2 1/2 ton C3i just does not work . Normal C3 I could replace those 4 tons with a C3 Slave ,2 ER Medium lasers and either a double heat sink or TAG . C3i favors medium mechs or better . All stock C3i mechs have them installed at the factory it was made . For standard C3 only the Master computer unit is built in the factory while the slaves replace a medium laser with a field refit . The initial investment is heavier for C3i. The WoB has the best stock models . Moving in a roughly L shaped formation seems to work OK . I have seen it used but do not use it myself . Standard C3 is a little more flexible in which units can carry it with minimum fuss. Good luck. Heavy Calvary or medium Skirmishers lets you use the system's strengths as soon as you put a slower Assault mech into the network then the faster units  just got a ton and a half of wasted tonnage as you have the weakness of the slower standard C3 Master unit . Hope you get the reults yoi are hoping for .
« Last Edit: 05 September 2017, 20:20:09 by Col Toda »

Challenger

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #4 on: 08 September 2017, 05:41:43 »
I rarely find the token guns on light mechs like the Spider terribly useful and was quite happy to run my spotters unarmed.

That said that was back in the days of BV1 where it cost little to do that. BV2 has made that a somewhat expensive option.

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Moirdryd

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #5 on: 20 September 2017, 06:18:02 »
C3i is a flexible system that rewards both regular C3 deployment strategy but also plays into a much more fluid combat style that was typical of the design process that was seen in the Manei Domni Omni-Mechs.

C3i operates at its finest without needing a designated spotter section and/or fire section allowing the Levell II employing the network to engage and cross engage for maximum effect of their weapons load outs. It makes utilising the network a very different beast to that of the conventional C3 lance as the spotter can and will switch and change as the Level II engages its prey of choice.

Caedis Animus

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2017, 01:26:52 »
Cry because someone started deploying ECM everywhere, and nobody bothered to design Boosted C3I.
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niall78

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #7 on: 01 October 2017, 08:07:32 »
Probably some of the most technologically advanced forces in the universe can be built using C3i coupled with MD enhancements and elite pilots.

Unfortunately in any kind of a BV balanced game such forces will be swamped by numbers. The Clans also suffer from this but to a much smaller degree as the skill required to play such C3i forces effectively is much greater than the skill required to play high BV Clan forces.

I've also found that many cannon C3i units aren't great at using their net. Long range firepower in many cases is enemic. Although fast spotters for such nets are abundant.

ECM is cheap in the era of C3i. Although hard to shut down fully. Huge BV in C3i can be degraded with minimal cost to an opponent.

In my opinion the MD were only meant as OPFOR and never really playtested as a viable choice under BV rules. Since C3i units are heavily weighted towards WoB and the MD this also negates the usefulness of C3i as a viable technology within the game.

Col Toda

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #8 on: 01 October 2017, 09:30:23 »
Your point of cost vs efficacy is valid however the best application of C3i is very different than C3 . To get the most as an attacker with C3i you are using 4 mediums and 2 lights with maybe a 5/8 heavy Calvary unit substituting for one or two of the Mediums . Say 2 Preta light mechs moving 7/12/7 , 2 5/8 Crabs with 2 Er PPC s , and 2 missile boats . The lights approach one on extreme right and the other extreme left flank with the intention of each getting to range 7 of a target . The lights fire and the Crabs poke wholes in the enemy unit and the LRM missile boats exploit them . Assault and slow heavy mechs use with C3i is OK when you are defending a prepared position but becomes too costly in wasted tonnage when you actually use them just like standard C3 . It has the advantage that you don't have a 5 ton Master computer in a slower heavier mech slowing down the whole attacking formation . No C3i unit should be moving less than 5/8 to get the most out of it . With the above example and the vagaries of ECM the enemy could typically put 1 ECM unit on one of the advance units and if the advance unit has ab ECM unit on ECCM the possibility of losing the network becomes remote . The light unit should have a +4 movement modifier and Terrain against the closest enemy and medium range or better vs the rest .

niall78

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #9 on: 01 October 2017, 13:42:23 »
Your point of cost vs efficacy is valid however the best application of C3i is very different than C3 . To get the most as an attacker with C3i you are using 4 mediums and 2 lights with maybe a 5/8 heavy Calvary unit substituting for one or two of the Mediums . Say 2 Preta light mechs moving 7/12/7 , 2 5/8 Crabs with 2 Er PPC s , and 2 missile boats . The lights approach one on extreme right and the other extreme left flank with the intention of each getting to range 7 of a target . The lights fire and the Crabs poke wholes in the enemy unit and the LRM missile boats exploit them . Assault and slow heavy mechs use with C3i is OK when you are defending a prepared position but becomes too costly in wasted tonnage when you actually use them just like standard C3 . It has the advantage that you don't have a 5 ton Master computer in a slower heavier mech slowing down the whole attacking formation . No C3i unit should be moving less than 5/8 to get the most out of it . With the above example and the vagaries of ECM the enemy could typically put 1 ECM unit on one of the advance units and if the advance unit has ab ECM unit on ECCM the possibility of losing the network becomes remote . The light unit should have a +4 movement modifier and Terrain against the closest enemy and medium range or better vs the rest .

I agree that's a very effective force. It is also very very expensive BV wise. If you don't run it near perfectly or end up on a map not suited to it you'll simply get rolled by a standard force through weight of numbers. Your opponent won't even have to be a highly competent player.

That brings up another point. Blind matches on blind terrain give C3i nets a small chance of surprise. If I know I'm facing WoB - especially MD - I'm gonna swamp the board in ECM. Mainly fast cheap rotary and hover units. The chances for C3i to pay back even a fraction of its BV is negligible.

Even working perfectly a C3i net using cannon units will have an uphill struggle pitting their weakened BV firepower against the stronger armour and firepower of an opponent. The C3i player is nearly always living in hope that his/her opponent will engage in a long range fire fight. Even rookies will run to close contact when facing a net.

I knew one player that played MD with C3i. 16k BV locked into six mechs and he would usually crush opponents with twice his weight of metal on the field. So such nets can be highly effective. But you need to be highly skilled at using the advantages the high BV cost gives you.

A bit like playing Clans in the Jihad Era only even more difficult. I often think it is the 'hardest' setting of this game if you play BV balanced games.

Col Toda

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Re: c3i tactics
« Reply #10 on: 03 October 2017, 10:46:19 »
I have found that C3 and Elite pilots is a bit wasteful . I keep my combat ready troops at roughly veteran level . Mechs 4 piloting 3 gunnery and hover tanks and a VTOL 3 piloting 4 gunnery . I field 2 attacking Companies one with 3 Separate C 3 lances at about 30,000 and 7 hover tanks a VTOL and lance of O-Bakemono's for about 19,000 . Counting the battle armor say under 55,000 . That is equivalent to 2 Stars of Assaut and One Star of heavy with 3 points of Battle Armor . A fair fight my 24 mechs and combat vehicles VS 15 Clan Mechs and half of my stuff is pointless to have C3 . I think against MD it would be lighter mechs  with 12-18 mechs with elite pilots and C3i .
« Last Edit: 03 October 2017, 10:55:22 by Col Toda »

 

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