Clan access to IS ammo?

[Weirdo]

So I'm running a 3080s-ish Jade Falcon armored force in my group's Tanksgiving game this weekend, and being a post-Jihad force, some of my tanks are spheroid units. Is it feasible that the Falcons would have access to House-made specialty ammo, such as Precision AC rounds? Even if they had access, would the Falcons deign to use the stuff?

[RoundTop]

The clans don't use standard model ac's anymore, so the ammo would not work.

In modern terms, the propulsion charge for each round is not enough to cycle the action in their ac's, or it is too much and damages to ultra ac parts. Same reason the is can't use them in uacs. 

As for the cultural distinction, 3080s they would certainly let a tank do it. It is lower caste, and the Falcons have long since lost the purity war.

[glitterboy2098]

Protomech AC's can use special ammos. Not sure it it is IS ammo from a different weapon or clan made versions in such cases.

[SCC]

So I'm running a 3080s-ish Jade Falcon armored force in my group's Tanksgiving game this weekend, and being a post-Jihad force, some of my tanks are spheroid units. Is it feasible that the Falcons would have access to House-made specialty ammo, such as Precision AC rounds? Even if they had access, would the Falcons deign to use the stuff?

You've got the tanks, why wouldn't you have ammo to put in them?

[Weirdo]

You've got the tanks, why wouldn't you have ammo to put in them?

There's a bit of a difference between having the standard rounds that AC/5s have been firing for centuries, and having access to Precision rounds that have only been around for a couple of decades.

[monbvol]

I don't know why the Clans wouldn't use specialty ammo if they had it.  They seem pretty happy to use their own alternate munitions(the aforementioned availability of specialty ammo for their PACs).

Now how likely it is that they grabbed some nifty ammo to use with those spheroid tanks I think would be fairly high as those tanks were most likely captured and if you were fighting against the Clans with standard ACs wouldn't you load up some specialty ammunition to help you win?

[Weirdo]

Actually, the tanks I'm using are new builds, not captured units. Remember, the Falcons kept several IS vee factories going as-is in order to fill out their second-line and militia forces for dirt cheap. (Clan Jade Falcon and Quikcell was a match made in mercantile heaven.)

[SCC]

Actually, the tanks I'm using are new builds, not captured units. Remember, the Falcons kept several IS vee factories going as-is in order to fill out their second-line and militia forces for dirt cheap. (Clan Jade Falcon and Quikcell was a match made in mercantile heaven.)

If they're going through those lengths to ensure the supply of vehicles then they would have made arguments for ammo

[Weirdo]

True, but this is the Falcons. Would they ignore any requests from the units those vees were foisted on for any but the most basic ammo?

[glitterboy2098]

I don't know why the Clans wouldn't use specialty ammo if they had it.  They seem pretty happy to use their own alternate munitions(the aforementioned availability of specialty ammo for their PACs).

Now how likely it is that they grabbed some nifty ammo to use with those spheroid tanks I think would be fairly high as those tanks were most likely captured and if you were fighting against the Clans with standard ACs wouldn't you load up some specialty ammunition to help you win?

by the rules, PAC's can use special ammo. not that any given clan that uses them actually does. thanks ot the seafoxes, PAC's can be found in IS hands too.

[monbvol]

*shrug*

There still seems to be plenty of evidence that when a weapon can use specialty ammunition that they have access to they do so.  Perhaps not to maximum effect but they do.

But a good point has been raised if these are supposed to be solhama units then I can see them not getting some on the grounds of real warriors should get the best gear.

[Weirdo]

Amusingly, 'real' warriors wouldn't get these rounds, because such warriors never have to deal with standard ACs. (Well, maybe in the Dark Age.)

[monbvol]

Well there are a number of omnimech configurations that utilize Artemis and even NARC.

[Weirdo]

They've always had those, and they have nothing to do with this thread.

At this point, you guys know what I'm talking about. Please don't sidetrack the thread any more, please.

[Valkerie]

Even if they had access, would the Falcons deign to use the stuff?

I preface this by saying I am no expert on the Clans. 

That being said, my impression of the Clans, and somewhat more so with the Falcons, is that they have such a superiority complex when it comes to combat (especially against IS units), that they would take great pride in kicking your butt with a standard AC/5 without any special munitions.   Perhaps that mentality changed somewhat after the Jihad, but I still don't see the Falcons using specialty ammo, even if it is available.

[SCC]

Checking IO the Falcons introduced AP AC ammo in 3105, so I'd say they use and have a factory for that at least.

[monbvol]

I just brought it up because it is evidence that if the Clans have specialty ammo they seem to be okay with their warriors using it.

[glitterboy2098]

Amusingly, 'real' warriors wouldn't get these rounds, because such warriors never have to deal with standard ACs. (Well, maybe in the Dark Age.)

there are some Omnimech configs with PAC's, though i'm not sure how widespread they'd be.

and even the Falcon have been using more vehicles with PAC's by the dark age, like the Sokar. which they seem to be building a fair number of.

[Moonsword]

So I'm running a 3080s-ish Jade Falcon armored force in my group's Tanksgiving game this weekend, and being a post-Jihad force, some of my tanks are spheroid units. Is it feasible that the Falcons would have access to House-made specialty ammo, such as Precision AC rounds? Even if they had access, would the Falcons deign to use the stuff?

The references you're looking for are on Interstellar Operations page 59.  The Clans apparently never introduced precision ammo to standard production as it's technically not part of their tech base, although it's also confusingly listed as available to PACs.  Flechette and AP rounds were introduced in 3105 by the Horses and the Falcons respectively.  Flak is also available for any Clan-made standard or Proto cannon.  (The Clans have lighter ACs available earlier in the book.)

As the tanks you're describing are Spheroid, that gets more complicated.  I doubt the Falcons have much of it but they would probably issue it if they captured it, they're pretty pragmatic, although the precision ammo might come with a sneering insult to the troops in question.  I wouldn't give precision to troops who are well thought of, anyway.  AP, flak, and flechette are probably not subject to the same stigmas.

Protomech AC's can use special ammos. Not sure it it is IS ammo from a different weapon or clan made versions in such cases.

It's Clan-made ammo.  ProtoMech ACs don't use the same ammo as standard ACs and are a different tech base besides.  I gave the dates above.

[Maingunnery]

by the rules, PAC's can use special ammo. not that any given clan that uses them actually does. thanks ot the seafoxes, PAC's can be found in IS hands too.

The SeaFoxes can also buy special ammo and then sell it to CJF.

[Hellraiser]

I would say no.

Its an IS invention, its from the other side of the IS, and it has no formal intro date for clan version.

If they had any small amount of it I'm sure its off in a research lab being studied not deployed with their garrison tank units.

[mbear]

So I'm running a 3080s-ish Jade Falcon armored force in my group's Tanksgiving game this weekend, and being a post-Jihad force, some of my tanks are spheroid units. Is it feasible that the Falcons would have access to House-made specialty ammo, such as Precision AC rounds? Even if they had access, would the Falcons deign to use the stuff?

Do you want them to use the rounds? Then yes, they have access and they use it. Maybe there is no other ammunition available to use and that would force them to use it.

[Col Toda]

This is a mindset question . The Inner Sphere Clans are in transition from a warrior to soldier . The question is when . It does happen before the Dark Age during the Republic Era . The Ghost Bear Dominion it happens early . The Jade Falcon's it happens briefly before it causes trials of positions and other events causing it to backslide to warrior mindset again . For the Jade Falcons 3095-3130 I can see them acquiring or providing special ammo but before and certainly after those dates the warrior mindset would disincline the drive to acquire or produce it . The Ghost Bear and Hell's Horses moved to a solder mindset earlier 3065+ . The change is gradual but noticable . This is why the home world Clans during and after the wars of reaving no longer look at the Inner Sphere Clans as legitimate and true to the warrior's heart and contaminated. The technical ability to make or aquire is not the issue it is more of the political will to get it done IS . So for the late 3080s I would expect it to be very rare fielded in proof of concept yrial and at.their Solaris VII Stable and nowhere else . After 3095 special ammo would be embraced and then Shunned  by 3130 as the New Khan embraces the warrior mindset again . So what has been posted for this thread is correct regardless of what stance the Clan has on special ammo is. I just think the window of time for special ammo to be the norm is SMALL 35 years at most .

[beachhead1985]

All the Clans have or had at one time IS-Tech mechs in their second-line/Solahma RATs, they would have needed to retain minimal capacity to do occasional runs of IS ammo to support them.