Shaitan (Flying Frog) omnimech

[Black_Knyght]

The Shaitan, known as the Flying Frog amongst the Clans, was developed as a highly mobile skirmisher, raider, or support omnimech. In it's Prime configuration it is used for it's high mobility and highly accurate pulse laser firepower. The A alt configuration combines it's high mobility with an ERPPC and four ERMLs tied into an advanced targeting computer, while it's B alt configuration combines a pair of LRM-20s and ERML for a highly mobile fire-support unit. The C alt configuration utilizes an ERLL, ERML, and paired Streak SRM-6s to create a high mobility multi-role skirmisher. The D alt configuration lacks jump jets, but ties a Gauss Rifle and three ERMLs into an advanced targeting computer for a sniper unit. Also lacking jump jets, the H alt configuration ties a pair of Heavy Large Lasers, a pair of Heavy Medium Lasers, and a pair of Heavy Small Lasers into an advanced targeting computer for a deadly close-combat unit. The alt E configuration operates similarly to the Nova Prime configuration, but ties all eight ERMLs into an advanced targeting computer. Other alt configurations are rumored to exist but have yet to be confirmed.


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Shaitan (Flying Frog)

Code: [Select]

Shaitan (Flying Frog) ( Base )
Clan Heavy Omnimech
60 tons 
BV: 882
Cost: 17,139,600 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 12 [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) Prime
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 2,626
Cost: 18,773,600 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)/6
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 12 [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser               RA    10
Medium Pulse Laser              LA     4
Medium Pulse Laser              LA     4
Medium Pulse Laser              HD     4

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       RT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) A
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 3,178
Cost: 19,319,600 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)/6
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC                          RA    15
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       RT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) B
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 2,415
Cost: 19,388,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)/6
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 12 [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 20                          RA     6
LRM 20                          LA     6
ER Medium Laser                 HD     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 20 Ammo                     LT     6
LRM 20 Ammo                     LT     6
LRM 20 Ammo                     RT     6
LRM 20 Ammo                     RT     6

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) C
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 2,542
Cost: 19,276,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)/6
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 13 [26]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                  RA    12
Streak SRM 6                    LA     4
Streak SRM 6                    LA     4
ER Medium Laser                 HD     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Streak SRM 6 Ammo               LT    15
Streak SRM 6 Ammo               LT    15

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       RT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) D
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 2,630
Cost: 18,384,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 12 [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle                     RA     1
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 HD     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]         RT     8
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]         RT     8
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]         RT     8

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       LT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) E
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 3,235
Cost: 19,399,200 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)/6
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 17 [34]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                 RA     5
ER Medium Laser                 RA     5
ER Medium Laser                 RA     5
ER Medium Laser                 RA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       RT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) F
Clan Heavy Omnimech
60 tons 
BV: 2,141
Cost: 18,844,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 12 [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
LB 5-X AC                       RA     1
ER Medium Laser                 RA     5
LB 5-X AC                       LA     1
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5
Small Pulse Laser               HD     2

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo             RT    20
LB 5-X AC Ammo                  LT    20

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad

========================================

Shaitan (Flying Frog) H
Clan TW
60 tons 
BV: 2,339
Cost: 18,748,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9(12)
Engine: 360 XL
Heat Sinks: 19 [38]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 99 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 163/201 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               20       23
Center Torso (rear)                  7
Right Torso                14       16
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 14       16
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  10       16
Left Arm                   10       16
Right Leg                  14       23
Left Leg                   14       23

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Heavy Large Laser               RA    18
Heavy Small Laser               RA     3
Heavy Large Laser               LA    18
Heavy Small Laser               LA     3
Heavy Medium Laser              RT     7
Heavy Medium Laser              LT     7

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan]       RT
MASC (fixed)                    CT

Carrying Capacity: One battle armor squad


[Black_Knyght]

Added in the E alt configuration (11-27-17)

Added in the F alt configuration (12-01-17)

[Firesprocket]

I would slow this down to 5/8 and utilize IJJs in at least a couple scenerios.  Otherwise what you have there is a Linebacker with different weapons load out.

[Black_Knyght]

Improved jump jets are something I'm still trying to wrap my head around. Somehow they just don't make enough sense to me to utilize them, but I might be missing what their benefit is too.

[Alsadius]

Yeah, IJJs seem like trash to me. You triple the weight of your JJs to add 50% to the movement range, when in most cases you can get better overall mobility by adding a point or two to your walk speed and using regular JJs. You can't even get to the useful numbers for movement mods - 7 and 10 aren't run speeds, 5 is something that almost anyone can jump naturally, and no mech can possibly mount 17 IJJs.

I've played around with them before, and they never make a mech better.

[Firesprocket]

IJJ are typically double, not triple the tonnage.  The benefits to slowing a mech down, to a degree, and slapping them on is generally an overall weight savings on the engine as a swap for either space or weight to include the jets.  the IJJs produce half the heat of standard jet and allow for benefits of jumping upward of a mech's run amount.  All are very useful, but IJJs aren't useful for everything.  Where they come in most useful is if you can manage to get a modifier from your jump movement into up another notch.  So a 5/8/5 mech, which would max out at +3 and a 5/8/7 mech would max out with jump as a +4 mod to be hit.

A 360XL engine weighs 16.5 tons.  If you bump it down to a 300XL it is 9.5 tons.  That goes a log way in getting you up to a 7 MP jump and the real value of the IJJs.

[Alsadius]

IJJ are typically double, not triple the tonnage.  The benefits to slowing a mech down, to a degree, and slapping them on is generally an overall weight savings on the engine as a swap for either space or weight to include the jets.  the IJJs produce half the heat of standard jet and allow for benefits of jumping upward of a mech's run amount.  All are very useful, but IJJs aren't useful for everything.  Where they come in most useful is if you can manage to get a modifier from your jump movement into up another notch.  So a 5/8/5 mech, which would max out at +3 and a 5/8/7 mech would max out with jump as a +4 mod to be hit.

A 360XL engine weighs 16.5 tons.  If you bump it down to a 300XL it is 9.5 tons.  That goes a log way in getting you up to a 7 MP jump and the real value of the IJJs.

Double the weight per JJ, and you need to mount extra JJs to actually get any benefit. A Firestarter spends 3 tons on the JJ for 6/9/6, and it'd spend 9 tons on IJJ to get 6/9/9. Even if you just want the +4 move mod for jumping 7, you need to go from 3 tons to 7. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the rules for them, it's a huge weight investment.

For a 360->300 drop, you're probably in a 60 ton mech. You're going from 6/9/6 to 5/8/7, saving 7 tons on the engine, but you're going from 6 tons of JJ to 14 tons. You're spending another ton on net, even with the engine size drop, and an extra 8 slots as well(plus potentially more slots for going from 14 DHS to 12 in the engine, but that won't be true of all mechs). I can imagine a few mechs where that might be a good trade, but not many. And how many 6/9 60-ton mechs are you even modifying in the first place?

[Firesprocket]

Double the weight per JJ, and you need to mount extra JJs to actually get any benefit.
[/quotes]
That is how jump jets work.  You install more an you go farther :)

A Firestarter spends 3 tons on the JJ for 6/9/6, and it'd spend 9 tons on IJJ to get 6/9/9. Even if you just want the +4 move mod for jumping 7, you need to go from 3 tons to 7. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the rules for them, it's a huge weight investment.

It is a modest investment.  It always is.  The lower weight designs though tend to see less of of a drain with only a ton investment for each IJJ.  Certainly they aren't for everyone, but with an omni space and weight can be shuffled around.

For a 360->300 drop, you're probably in a 60 ton mech.

It is most definitely a 60 ton mech that is what was post by the OP.

You're going from 6/9/6 to 5/8/7, saving 7 tons on the engine, but you're going from 6 tons of JJ to 14 tons. You're spending another ton on net, even with the engine size drop, and an extra 8 slots as well(plus potentially more slots for going from 14 DHS to 12 in the engine, but that won't be true of all mechs). I can imagine a few mechs where that might be a good trade, but not many. And how many 6/9 60-ton mechs are you even modifying in the first place?

5/8/7 is much better than 6/9/6 for a ton and the space if you can afford it.  The difference between 6/9/6 and 5/8/5 is equally insignificant.  Jump movement doesn't care about facing changes and the additional TMM it will provide is well worth it IMO.  Given it is an omni design one can choose to do it or not do it with the layout of the fixed space of the parent chassis.  6/9 isn't really an ideal speed for a 60 ton mech.  It is part of the reason you don't see it all that often.  When you do it seldom produces a design that isn't lacking substantially in either the weapon/range or armor department.

The Kuma and Shadow Cat II are both sub par for different reasons.  Despite the Kuma having IJJs its weapons are somewhat lacking for a Clan mech of its size.  The SC II is under armored.  On the IS side of things you have the Grand Dragon, Ti Ts'ang, Lancelot, and a few Ostol designs.  Of those the Ostol is the only one that I'd consider good.  The Ti Ts'ang is good, but niche and certainly an example of how packed things have to be when you start packing all this advanced tech on a machine.

1 ton of pod space dedicated to a weapon isn't going to make or break a machine. Getting that extra TMM certainly makes it live longer.  60 tons is a very poor break point for a 6/9 mechs.  Other lighter designs can generally better.  Plus the base chassis is only using 12 DHS when it can take upward of 15 before having to dedicate pod space.  The benefits taking that slightly faster 6/9 over a 5/8 consist of an additional facing change for 7 tons.  IJJ or no, that's not extremely efficient.