BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Bad_Syntax on 23 August 2011, 19:56:56
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I have seen many people, including myself, beg for new system coordinates, especially with the *hundreds* of new systems on the handbook maps. Well, I blew my own life away, and went through every single map every published and typed in every single system name, who owned it, and in most cases the various political regions the system was located in. I then took the full 3075 map in one of the jihad books, opened it in Adobe Illustrator, and since it was a single big map I manually clicked on every single planet and typed in its .1 LY accurate coordinates. I then went through the other few hundred systems, typed in the new worlds, and took a couple existing worlds to translate where the new coordinates are. I only typed in worlds from maps where the entire faction was mapped out, even if I could combine maps to get an entire faction, if it wasn't all on 1 map I skipped it (there were scaling and some other issues with many of the maps, so I erred on the side of caution).
The 3075 map is accurate to .001 LY, with the others perhaps up to .05 LY off, though in many cases far less. The clan worlds are +/- a bit more, as I had to use WoR to determine where the clan homeworlds were in relation to the inner sphere. From there I was able to get the HL/NC coordinates. Jarnfolk coordinates were also pretty close, as they had Alfirk on their maps and it matched up with existing silouhettes nearly perfectly. You can see the less accurate coordinates as they go out to up to 7 decimal places, while accurate ones are usually only 2-3. They are still *very* close though.
Aian Nepomuceno has helped me a lot in finding typos (there was over 40,000 system names I typed in, some were BOUND to happen!) and worlds that were renamed.
There are 2972 unique systems.
Now the bad news....
I didn't have the HBHK yet, so I can't say I have complete maps for very many eras. In fact, the only complete maps I have are:
2571
2596
3040
3050
3052
3057
3063
3075
3130
3079 will be complete with the RIS/Clan handbooks come out, and almost all the maps complete once the HBHK comes out.
I enclosed an index file, to specify what the factions are (like LC=Lyran Commonwealth, CJF=Clan Jade Falcon, etc).
I also have 300 or so of these systems detailed out with canon data (star type, atmosphere, random maps, etc), though that data isn't in these files, I'll have another post for those, as I wrote the code to "fill in the blanks", so they won't be 100% canon.
Some explanations:
(Clan) at the end of a name is a clan world
(Periphery) at the end of a name is a deep periphery world
(Jarnfolk) at the end of a name is a jarnfolk world
A system with another name after, like "Austerlitz (Scauld 3130+)" represents a system that had a new name, first noticed in 3130 in this case.
Some systems have another system name in parenthesis, without a year, this is typically a nickname/alternate name of the system, or perhaps a planet in the system
Ownership for a year being a "-" means nobody owned it that year, it wasn't on the map at all.
A world with a faction in parenthesis, like "Camlann (DC)" and "Camlann (FWL)" represent 2 systems with the same name. I think these may end up getting changed to coreward, spinward, etc later, but it helps acknowledge which system is which.
The index file is tab delimited (open with excel, open office, etc). It has the code for the faction, the long name, and 3 numbers. The numbers are the RGB values that I was using in my own map renderings. If you create a better color palette I'd be very happy to use it (I thought the maps at http://ourbattletech.com looked better, but only had a few colors).
You can plug this data into the CBT Cartographer I wrote a while back (download from the link in my profile) and render maps, plot jump routes, whatever, though it needs a serious update.
I will try to come out with maps soon with 10 LY hexes, to match the "ISW:Combat" scale in the core rulebook primer, in anticipation of IO, though at that scale I believe over 100 hexes have 2+ systems within them (7.5 LY/Hex dropped that number down to 20 or so IIRC). I made an online map a while back that didn't have this data at http://goodsects.gotdns.com/ZoomMap/3025_Small.html (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/ZoomMap/3025_Small.html) that I could update it people like it.
We are still working on this, but it should be in a usable state if you wanted to create a map or plot a jump course.
I have not checked this against the 3025 data, which I actually have all entered in, as those original coordinates are completely deprecated at this point, and essentially useless (according to official sources too!)
Now, if you decide to use this, and find *any* errors in *any* way, *please* let us know. While I am pretty sure its typo free at this point, there could be a system that was renamed that we missed, or that changed actual locations on maps (yeah, it has happened). I will try and keep it updated for all, and as I finish new eras I'll update the file for everybody. It would suck if everybody started pumping out their own versions everywhere, and the data got basically corrupted.
UPDATED: New coordinates *only* in attached Systems.txt file. Some names have changed too.
UPDATED: Apparently the previous systems.txt file was blank, sorry, here is the corrected one!
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alright it's finally up! standby for more eras as they become available! GJ syntax!
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The first error, there is an "Altoona" system in the wacky extension between LC/FWL on the 2786/2822 map (and the 2750 RWR map), but no other. I added it at -256.408, -6.324. The system isn't on any maps after 2822 or before 2750, so it apparently wasn't a very nice place to live :)
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you will notice there are some systems that are "-" from start to finish.
short explanation, these worlds were undiscovered prior to 2596 (or later) and subsequently lost or abandoned by 3040 (or earlier).
An example would be Aboukir, which only appeared in the RWR map in 2750 and was subsequently gone by 3025.
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Well done for all the hard work you've put in to this project.
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Have you thought about joining the BTWiki Project Planets?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets
They are currently doing a massive overhaul of the entire planet list and I am sure a lot of your info and theirs would end up the same anyway.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets/Planet_Overhaul
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Have you thought about joining the BTWiki Project Planets?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets
They are currently doing a massive overhaul of the entire planet list and I am sure a lot of your info and theirs would end up the same anyway.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets/Planet_Overhaul
I've been in tough with em on it, never saw that page though. From what I've seen on it, we may have almost done nearly all the work :) I figured Revanche would chime in on this about it, as he spoke with me about the coordinates recently and I sent him an early copy.
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Coolness, I actually got to reach Bad_Syntax through a message in Project Planets of Sarna... talk about going full circle. I think the issue with sarna is that the coordinates Syntax got are not officially canon even though the sources are as canon as mathematically possible. (the formulas still gives me nightmares lol)
I'm currently working with Syntax on identifying which faction and region a system belongs to in some of the major years. Sources would be the various full and partial IS maps, and fiction where map data on ownership is not available (ie Clan homeworlds pre-3067)
If you guys would like to lend a hand, then maybe we could finish this before someone actually invents Myomer :D
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I've been in tough with em on it, never saw that page though. From what I've seen on it, we may have almost done nearly all the work :) I figured Revanche would chime in on this about it, as he spoke with me about the coordinates recently and I sent him an early copy.
I'm here! Sorry I'm late to the game.
These coordinates are just what the community needed, since the old House book ones are error-prone and invalid. As Øystein stated here (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,9115.0.html), not only are the original coordinates non-canon, but they haven't been used in so long because they would have invalidated every map made up to and since then.
Øystein has gone to great lengths to base his maps on FASA's and by doing so has brought a lot of continuity to what could have become a train wreck. He's indicated that his maps are not coordinate based, but derived (I presume) from master images, so Bad_Syntax's efforts here have translated those graphical positions into a coordinate system that replicates (without the errors!) the one we've come to recognize and at the exact light-years scale. Now, we have the option of doing our own jump paths using his coordinates by hand or his (soon-to-be updated) own CBT Cartographer (http://btengineer.blogspot.com/2011/01/cbt-cartographer.html) program.
As for Sarna, we have debated whether or not we could use these, since they are a non-canon metasource, but decided the value to the CBT community over-rode the non-canon concerns. Especially in light of the fact that there is no more precise source of coordinates than those provided by Bad_Syntax. Our stance on the waiver granted to Bad_Syntax's extrapolation method is found here (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:System_coordinates) and every coordinate dervived from it will be marked accordingly, so that the readers can decide for themselves if they want to rely on them. (The coordinates in use right now on Sarna are the older, flawed ones from FASA and will be replaced incrementally.)
Great job, Bad_Syntax and VoltAmpere. Great addition to the fan support of BattleTech.
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Thanks for the hard work B_S 8)
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There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.
So, in excel A Place looks fine:
System X Y 2571 2596 3040 3050 3052 3057 3063 3075 3130
A Place -123.67 274.12 - - LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2 LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2 LC,Tamar March,Pandora Operational Area,Region 1 LC,Arc-Royal Theater LA,Pandora Theater,Arc-Royal Defense Cordon LA,Arc-Royal Theater D
But in Open Office its
System X Y 2571 2596 3040 3050 3052 3057 3063 3075 3130
A Place -123.67 274.12 - - LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2 LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2 LC,Tamar March,Pandora Operational Area,Region 1 LC,Arc-Royal Theater LA,Pandora Theater,Arc-Royal Defense Cordon LA,Arc-Royal Theater D
May be a PBKAC error on my end, or I am doing something wrong with Open Office, either way I thought I'd put it out there.
Good work Syntax, this imports into a shapefile very well.
Davout
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Good work Syntax, this imports into a shapefile very well.
Shapefile?
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A shapefile is a basic vector data format used in geographic information system software. Lets you display information geographically.
ArcGIS is probabaly the most common software, with Syntax's file I can import it, then plot by the X,Y coordinates, and go from there.
For my Fed Suns Alt Universe I am using ARC to create the maps, and I know the maps on ourbattletech.com are done in ARC as well, i received most of my files from the guy who did them there, I am totally having a brain cramp and forgetting his name.
But, as an example of what you can do, see attached.
Each planet is a point that can be moved. Each line can be redrawn, or moved. Each border is comprised of a bunch of vertices that can be moved to reflect planet ownership and the like. That image is probably 5 layer files, each of which can be turned on or of depending on what you want to do.
Ourbattletech.com has a ton more exam0ples of what a good GIS user can do.
I am still in the walk phase myself...
Shapefile?
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The name you are looking for is Blacknova, and he does wonders with ArcGIS.
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That is phenomenal!
The keyboard symbols are a bit odd for icon use, but I presume there is a technical reason for that.
However, the map is simply incredible. If that's your skills at the walk stage...
Now I'm even more impressed by what Bad_Syntax's extrapolated coordinates bring to the fans.
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Thanks Kwic.
The name you are looking for is Blacknova, and he does wonders with ArcGIS.
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In talking with my wife, whose the Graphic Artist in the family, a lot of what is done in ARC can also be done in Illustrator, in fact either program can use .eps files...I suspect the maps Oystein does are in Illustrator, but I've never asked.
Davout
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There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.
encountered that before. try to open the file in notepad, copy the whole lot and then paste it in excel, should work for you :)
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There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.
I'd try the notepad copy/paste too, it is probably as the CSV isn't copying quotes around the name, so open office is treating a space like a comma... wacky :(
Thanks for all the positive feedback folks, it was a *lot* of work! Heck, it ain't even done yet, I still gotta update my Cartographer to give ya'll a good and dynamic mapping solution. I'll try to work on it, and inputting more eras, over the next few days and weekend assuming the wife lets me! :)
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I have made some pretty significant updates to the list, mostly to names and adding a few Kurita systems that we don't have maps for yet.
From now on these files will be kept updated on my website (well the server in my house, teehee). I'll have version info within them, and update them whenever I do any changes.
The files are available at:
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems.txt (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems.txt)
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems_Complete.txt (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems_Complete.txt)
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Factions.txt (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Factions.txt)
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Thanks!
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That is some impressive work O0
I wish I had that kind of time or devotion ;)
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Thats a awesome sheet. Nice Job!!!
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Heh, looks like this post has been dead a long time... time to do a little bit of necromancy!
I've attached a list of updated coordinates based off of Bad_Syntax's work, but instead of using the 3075 Jihad Map I used the 3130 MW:DA map as base and then consolidated coordinates from the other partial and two-page maps into the base of 3130. I've expanded the list to contain 3,009 known systems [past and present] including the Chainelane Isles [thanks again Oystein for finally releasing that piece of jewel]
Caveat:
1) coordinates are NOT canon and should not be treated as such, despite being extrapolated from the excellent work of Oystein
2) coordinates assumes that X and Y scales are uniform (ie: follows 120 LY / 167.517pixels derived from the PDF)
3) i intentionally left out the Dark Nebula and Caliban Nebula... I dunno why, I just did haha
4) near and outer periphery worlds (JarnFolk, Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Clan Worlds, way stations, etc...) are based on the WoR 3067 mini-map, whose Y-axis scale is also assumed to be equal to the X-axis 400LY scale.
5) the list is a work in progress, we're still hoping Handbook: House Kurita comes out and gives us more systems to add to our list.
6) This work was started by Bad_Syntax who's now doing other stuff. Method of capturing the on-page coordinates is credited to him. The formula for integrating those coordinates into one map is mine, and is open to anyone who wants to know [have an excel file that shows how this was done stashed somewhere that I can pass around to interested auditors]
I know there are a lot of people in the community interested in getting coordinates, so here they are. I just ask that those guys run this through their map-generating apps and verify if I have the coordinates right within about 1-2% accuracy, and to toss any errors or corrections my way.
As an aside, I'm also working on the faction ownership of those 3,009 systems from the founding of the FWL up to 3130, but I have a lot of gaps here and there where map data is not available. I would like to ask for help in going through fluff that would be able to identify who owns what when for about 25+ milestone years. Anyone interested in getting their heads to ache can PM me. All information generated will be freely available to the community for whatever reason they may use it.
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Minor update:
correct coordinates for Caledea is [-283.313, 215.572]. The coordinates listed in the txt file actually belong to Caldrea.
Thanks to Bad_Syntax for finding the error.
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I think the entry for Jardine is arguable when it says "(Herakleion 2822+)".
Jardine wasn't really renamed, it was mixed up with another (real) world named Herakleion that was lost by then and is unmapped so far, but presumably lies near Jardine.
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Very Nice!!! O0
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you should send this to the guys over at megamek too :P
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I think the entry for Jardine is arguable when it says "(Herakleion 2822+)".
Jardine wasn't really renamed, it was mixed up with another (real) world named Herakleion that was lost by then and is unmapped so far, but presumably lies near Jardine.
No, Jardine was renamed Herakleion and then lost. There was no other world named Herakleion.
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I just stumble upon this thread and try to get the list into the CBT Cartographer, but it won´t work. Did anyone get this two things together so that you can see these great list in a better form?
Oh and no I don´t get the CBT Cartographer in anyway runing under a win 7 system.
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I just stumble upon this thread and try to get the list into the CBT Cartographer, but it won´t work. Did anyone get this two things together so that you can see these great list in a better form?
Oh and no I don´t get the CBT Cartographer in anyway runing under a win 7 system.
Cartographer uses a tab delimited text file for systems, which you can open into excel quite easily. The format is pretty easy to understand, and if you open this list into another workbook you can copy/paste quite easily, and it should work fine.
If cartographer doesn't work I'm betting its a .NET issue. The application requires .NET 4.0. You can download the update from microsoft at http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=17718, or a MUCH better idea is go to windows update or your control panel and download *ALL* updates, event the optional ones. Those will have .NET within them as well.
I attached a screenshot of the new dynamic hex ownership algorythm (The mods deleted the last thread).
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And another screenshot, bit farther out
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Simply awesome. Will be a great asset for ISIF and other strategic-level games.
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Cartographer uses a tab delimited text file for systems, which you can open into excel quite easily. The format is pretty easy to understand, and if you open this list into another workbook you can copy/paste quite easily, and it should work fine.
If cartographer doesn't work I'm betting its a .NET issue. The application requires .NET 4.0. You can download the update from microsoft at http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=17718, or a MUCH better idea is go to windows update or your control panel and download *ALL* updates, event the optional ones. Those will have .NET within them as well.
I attached a screenshot of the new dynamic hex ownership algorythm (The mods deleted the last thread).
hey hey look who's back! Nice to have you back in the fight Syntax! Hope your vacation was boring as hell haha
@Manne, actually the list originated from Syntax's Cartographer. You might have to change the format of the text so Cartographer will be able to read the data correctly
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Minor Updates again:
I used a different method to get the relative coordinates of the four JarnFolk worlds. Previously I used proximity to Alfirk to get the coordinates of the four JF worlds. This time I used the same method I employed that got me the Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Deep Periphery outposts, Pentagon and Kerensky Cluster systems.
the new coordinates are:
Alborg 554.930 499.044
Hamar 593.985 495.067
Hofn 602.133 545.074
Trondheim (JF) 578.460 526.133
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Volt,
Are you updating the file accordingly, or should the downloaders be making these changes?
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I'll be uploading an updated file when I get home... don't have access to my laptop at the moment
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ok here's the link! http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti (http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti)
Another caveat: The file is a list of the 3009 systems, the coordinates and the faction ownership for the 30 "milestone" years from FWL founding to 3130. The coordinates are not perfect and will need people to check the accuracy vs published maps, and the faction ownership are full of holes on some areas that will need to be filled in. So far, the only years that have been completed are 2596, 3058, 3063 and 3067. My goal is to eventually fill in the rest of the gaps but no way I can do that myself, so anyone willing to lend a hand is most welcome.
I'll post updates and corrections whenever anyone successfully finds any errors.
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I don´t get these program to work, before I start the Programm the Planets.txt is full and after the Start the complete Planets.txt is empty (3 Worlds are left).
And these 3 Worlds also won´t be displayed in the program.
Syntax gave me 2 links with the programm, but none worked by me (both delet worlds in the Planets.txt) And it doens´t workd on a virtual Windows XP either, there I have the same problem.
What must be changed in the Planets.txt to get them to work?
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Had the same problem before with the older version of Cartographer. Try to download an updated version of the app.
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I have 2 versions of them, the first one from this link (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/cbt_cartographer.zip) and then the second one that Syntax told me to use because it is a newer version. ( http://goodsects.gotdns.com/cart.zip 2nd link)
And none of these work here, Volt maybe you cann upload your version for me. Maybe then I can see the differenc between both versions.
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I have 2 versions of them, the first one from this link (http://goodsects.gotdns.com/cbt_cartographer.zip) and then the second one that Syntax told me to use because it is a newer version. ( http://goodsects.gotdns.com/cart.zip 2nd link)
And none of these work here, Volt maybe you cann upload your version for me. Maybe then I can see the differenc between both versions.
try this one: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?iyvmzmcnzatvm2v (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?iyvmzmcnzatvm2v) if you want to load the updated coordinates and system ownership, copy cells B3 to AH3012 from the Systems Tab to notepad and save as planets.txt on the Cartographer's Data Folder, and A1 to H105 of the Factions Tab to factions.txt.
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it works !! wohoooo
Thanks Volt and Thanks Syntax. This List and Program rocks. The best Fan Base Program that I know.
You both are the greatest.
Oh by the way Volt your Link on Mediafire ist convertet to an zip container, so when I donwloaded it, I must rename it back to the XLSX document.
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Yeah I hadn't noticed it before. Anyway, I changed the link above so that it directs to the folder instead of the file itself, this way I don't have to update the link whenever I have to update the file, which I did just now.
I've made some minor changes to some of the faction colors in the Factions tab, and changed some typo errors. In the Systems tab, I changed the 3085 Liao Commonality to Sarna Commonality as published in the 3085 map.
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A shapefile is a basic vector data format used in geographic information system software. Lets you display information geographically.
ArcGIS is probabaly the most common software, with Syntax's file I can import it, then plot by the X,Y coordinates, and go from there.
For my Fed Suns Alt Universe I am using ARC to create the maps, and I know the maps on ourbattletech.com are done in ARC as well, i received most of my files from the guy who did them there, I am totally having a brain cramp and forgetting his name.
But, as an example of what you can do, see attached.
Each planet is a point that can be moved. Each line can be redrawn, or moved. Each border is comprised of a bunch of vertices that can be moved to reflect planet ownership and the like. That image is probably 5 layer files, each of which can be turned on or of depending on what you want to do.
Ourbattletech.com has a ton more exam0ples of what a good GIS user can do.
I am still in the walk phase myself...
Throwing that into ArcGIS is a great idea. Now to get the squirrels in the old computer up and running to play with the idea.
Wasp
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Thanks Davout, that was me over at OurBattleTech.
For those that are interested, I am also uploading the shapefiles I made for the states, provinces and regions with each of the maps I am uploading there on the OBT forum. With Volt/BS's data and the shapefiles I am making, mapping takes no time at all. For ArcGIS users, I am also saving the colour palettes and icons for each map, so those that want them can use them.
It basically means, instead of building the map from scratch, which takes a good couple of hours once all changes are made, with the data at OBT, you can have the maps up and running in minutes. I have a thread here in general discussion announcing the release of each era map.
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You're most welcome :-)
If people are interested, I also have a basic OOB file for all five houses and periphery compiled from the 3025 books, I can post that somewheres. I even figured out a way to incorporate that into Arc, but that was a PITA to get the relates right...
Davout
Thanks Davout, that was me over at OurBattleTech.
For those that are interested, I am also uploading the shapefiles I made for the states, provinces and regions with each of the maps I am uploading there on the OBT forum. With Volt/BS's data and the shapefiles I am making, mapping takes no time at all. For ArcGIS users, I am also saving the colour palettes and icons for each map, so those that want them can use them.
It basically means, instead of building the map from scratch, which takes a good couple of hours once all changes are made, with the data at OBT, you can have the maps up and running in minutes. I have a thread here in general discussion announcing the release of each era map.
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I plan on doing the units next and have found a way to do it that is quite easy. If you have units and worlds they are stationed on, I can take it from there and jig it quickly for you.
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I figured it out, just took some doing. Problem was when you has multiple units on one planet, it would only display the first unit and not the rest. Took some jumping through hoops, but I got it.
Thanks!
Davout
I plan on doing the units next and have found a way to do it that is quite easy. If you have units and worlds they are stationed on, I can take it from there and jig it quickly for you.
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Just an FYI:
I've added 8 entries, but none of them have any coordinates at this time because none of them appear on any published map:
Herat [Khwarazm Empire/Clan Jade Falcon, probably Quadrant I or II]
Nishapur [Khwarazm Empire/Clan Jade Falcon, probably Quadrant I or II]
Marv [Khwarazm Empire/Clan Jade Falcon, probably Quadrant I or II
Urgenj [Khwarazm Empire/Clan Jade Falcon, probably Quadrant I or II]
Siroc [Independent/ComStar Explorer Corps/Clan Steel Viper, probably Quadrant I or II]
Farhome [Independent, rediscovered by Comstar Explorer Corps, probably Quadrant IV]
Mundo Nublar [ComStar(?) then later WoB, probably Quadrant II, near Hanseatic League/Nueva Castile]
Etienne's Sanctuary [Independent/Society, probably Quadarant II, possibly an abandoned Rim Worlds Republic system]
I'm hoping we could someday identify the locations of these systems, or perhaps determine that they're worlds within existing systems [like ComStar's Columbus, which is in the Epsilon Pegasus System or Talon in the Wernke System]
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I also had the following systems that were never on a map, but mentioned, some from http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,261.0/all.html:
Etienne's Sanctuary
Ross 248 (Near Terra) - Maybe 10.3 LY?. Aka Terrelibre
RWR Outpost 27, top left)
Luyten 68-28 (Near Terra) - maybe 8.3 LY? - DC Space
Farhome (90 LY beyond TC)
Taussen - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Obeedah - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Mayadi - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Barnard - Had an HPG A facility, part of first circuit, perhaps its Barnard's Star which is a 1.8pc away?
Roxborough - hidden comstar world?
Haddings - hidden comstar world?
Opotiki - hidden comstar world?
Trisha - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
Trentwash II - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
Alpha Hydri - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
As for all the vector stuff at ourbattletech.com, their maps look really good. What I was trying to do was make the maps completely dynamic, without *any* need for user interaction to update borders. This is what I accomplished quite a bit of with the cartographer. It actually stores systems as vector coordinates, but renders them onto a dynamically generated bitmap. I did this so people with crappy hardware could use it, as it wouldn't be too hard for me to use DirectX instead and allow fluid scaling and panning. If I ever get back to finishing it, I may add that as an option. I did add some parallelism and multi-threading to support multiple cores in my current build, which makes it load/update a lot faster.
I did however pull all those color codes out of thin air, with no research/confirmation/etc. I liked the ourbattletech.com colors, and thought of applying them, but needed colors for 105 or so factions I currently have within my own data before I go tinkering with the colors. They are super easy to change within cartographer tho, just edit the factions.txt file and modify the R/G/B codes within the file to change colors.
I also had code done so you could have a units.txt file, which allowed any # of any type of units to be on planets, and allowed you to move them around, change stats, etc.
I also had factories.txt, which had a list of factories, what world they were on, and what they produced.
I also had entities.txt, which was a list of unit types (like WHM-6R) and who built all the components. Combined with the factories file you could build a map of where a unit was produced. Kinda neato.
I also had routes.txt, which let you setup/create dynamic trade routes that could be animated on screen.
I had a few system generators created, though I was hoping Interstellar Operations would have been out already so I could re-code that with the new tables. I also had Traveller/GURPS system generation within there, so you could build some *really* detailed systems. I planned on creating maps of the systems, with all the planets/moons/orbits, and letting you plan our travel routes within a system, moving units around, changing ownership, etc, etc, but never got that far, plus some of the math was killing me (like hohman transfer orbits!) so it never got finished either.
And lots of other things that I never finished implementing, due to some frustration I had on here. I liked FM 3085, since it was the most complete OB we've ever had in the BTU, and I was happy to see the old jihad hotspots series come to an end, which is why I kinda came back to it.
I'm tinkering with the idea again of a dynamic unit builder that dynamically allows you to create every type of unit (except characters and infantry platoons, as they are really different). In the past windows forms have killed me with all the recursive updates, but I'm thinking of building a dynamic webpage now (so yeah, the builder would be ONLINE!) though only time will tell if I get past the hurdles set before me.
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I was able to get the colors of some of the factions from the FM3085 IS map [apparently, the per-Faction maps and the whole 2-page map don't have consistent color pallets so I used the 2-page map colors just to make it "standard"] I'll probably work on the colors of the other systems when I find time for it. Not really at the top of my list of priorities at the moment as the existing color pallet you originally made is good enough for me.
Oh and I'm still hoping most of those systems you put there [From Frabby's list, right?] are just renamed/rediscovered pre 3rd SW systems that were thought to be abandoned.
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I was able to get the colors of some of the factions from the FM3085 IS map [apparently, the per-Faction maps and the whole 2-page map don't have consistent color pallets so I used the 2-page map colors just to make it "standard"] I'll probably work on the colors of the other systems when I find time for it. Not really at the top of my list of priorities at the moment as the existing color pallet you originally made is good enough for me.
Oh and I'm still hoping most of those systems you put there [From Frabby's list, right?] are just renamed/rediscovered pre 3rd SW systems that were thought to be abandoned.
Unfortunately the pile of shite program suite Adobe puts out messes up my colors all the time, so I keep having to reset them. :(
With regards,
Øystein
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I know what you mean, I get the same problem when I make a file from RGB then convert to CMYK, for some reason the colors shift ever so slightly. Almost makes me want to go back to Corel.
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faction ownership database (systems by era.xlsx) updated! now includes the following:
Operation Revival Periphery Action
Wave 1 to 3
Year of Peace (right after Wave 4)
Also revised the ownership of Star's End from CWF to Independent up until CHH captures the system and purges it of the pirates in the 70's.
Minor bug fix, corrected tag of Marian Hegemony systems from "HM" to "MH"
I'll probably do Operation Bulldog when I find time for it
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forget what I just said... Operation Bulldog Wave 1 to 4 now included!
Also updated some pre-Age of War faction ownership and added some factions that existed during this time.
Faction ownership before 2571 needs A LOT of work, about 34% of 2271-2366 is blank. I'm gonna need some help sifting through pre-Age of War histories of the five houses to get anything more done.
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Minor update... added "Lothian District" and "Illyrian District" from 3067 onwards for the relevant Hegemony worlds.
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systems database by era has been updated [again]
no new year this time, but I've changed the spelling of Wroclaw to Wrociaw as validated by Oystein, and I added a column that will allow you to see the linear distance between two systems [idea inspired by the need of the Sarna Projects Planet group]
Just select the reference system on the drop-down menu at cell E2 of the spreadsheet then it will automatically display the distances from each of the 3008 other systems to this systems.
caveat though, because of the quirky way VLOOKUP works in excel, the !Systems list HAS TO BE in alphabetical order, or it will not display the correct distances.
file is located at http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti (http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti)
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Thanks, 1 of the downloads is password protected, any chance of the password Please ?, or should that not be there ?.
Dave.
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oh um, actually that file is intentionally password protected, I've limited access to the raw coordinates and the actual conversion formulas to a few key people in order to maintain a centralized means of updating the coordinates as necessary. I'm unable to share hidden folders/files and I didn't want to take out the file from my "cartography folder" so I just decided to password protect it.
Essentially the results of that excel file you will find in the systems by era.xlsx file, already organized and standardized to 3 decimal places.
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Thanks, understand & NP.
Dave.
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Thanks :) oh and by the way, i uploaded [just now] the updated file this time showing the Jade Falcon Incursion of 3058 [leading to battle of Coventry]
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Just select the reference system on the drop-down menu at cell E2 of the spreadsheet then it will automatically display the distances from each of the 3008 other systems to this systems.
caveat though, because of the quirky way VLOOKUP works in excel, the !Systems list HAS TO BE in alphabetical order, or it will not display the correct distances.
Add the ,0 at the end of the vlookup function for an exact match, that should fix the alphabetical issue.
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nice, thanks Syntax! updated xlsx file uploaded!
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Hi guys, I just made a file that showed the distances [in LY] between the 3009 systems. I made the array to look like your typical multiplication table so that it would be intuitive. Fair warning though, because the distances are dynamic [ie formula] the file takes a while to open/save, and is approximately 125MB [well, what do you expect from a file with over 9 million cells and formulas?]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jqz53qk660ozfwn (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jqz53qk660ozfwn)
enjoy!
ps: i made the distances formulas based on the extrapolated and consolidated coordinates. So that IF/WHEN [please be WHEN] we get official coordinates we automatically get the distances [i so love future-proof designs]
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Hi guys, I just made a file that showed the distances [in LY] between the 3009 systems. I made the array to look like your typical multiplication table so that it would be intuitive. Fair warning though, because the distances are dynamic [ie formula] the file takes a while to open/save, and is approximately 125MB [well, what do you expect from a file with over 9 million cells and formulas?]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jqz53qk660ozfwn (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jqz53qk660ozfwn)
enjoy!
ps: i made the distances formulas based on the extrapolated and consolidated coordinates. So that IF/WHEN [please be WHEN] we get official coordinates we automatically get the distances [i so love future-proof designs]
Thats insane, why not just give people 2 blanks, a FROM and a TO (you can even use a validation list to give users dropdowns with all the system names), then do the calculations on it in a 3rd cell? I have no idea why anybody would want to see *all* of them at once. Heck, I have a dual core i7, 12 GB of ram, and a smoking SCSI 15K 5 disk array and *I* wouldn't touch that file with a wireless keyboard :)
Still waitin on HBHK :(
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Oh, my systems by era.xlsx file does something like that already. Just select the "From" system and it will put the distance on each of the 3008 other systems on the list.
This dedicated table is just for the crazy people like myself. I got bored and decided to see if my laptop would break or not if i tried to do it... apparently it didn't break :D :D :D
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Hey guys,
with the advent of the 2765 map from H:LoTv1, I've updated the systems list and the coordinates. Changes:
1) renamed duplicate systems and systems with Extended Latin characters (such as Å and Ú etc...)
2) added 51 "new" systems, which actually means 49 new systems and two that I was not able to add before because I totally missed them
3) changed the base coordinates of more than 600 systems from the various handbook maps to the two-page 2765 map. As of this time the only system using coordinates from a handbook is Fable as it does not appear on any "full" Inner Sphere map. (if rounded to 0.1 decimal places, 98-99% of the systems are identical to the old coordinates, with the remaining 1-2% either off by 0.1 or -0.1 or were previously wrong, such as Onverwacht and Elba, among others)
4) adjusted the coordinates of the Chainelane Isles, Deep Periphery, HL, NC, JarnFolk, Pentagon and KCluster systems because of an X-axis scaling error using the 3085 map (oops).
The file is still systems by era.xlsx found in http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti (http://www.mediafire.com/?q47sjqbc94qti)
You guys who have access to converted coordinates.xlsx file [you know who you are] are now free to scrutinize my raw coordinates for errors [you each get -100,000.01 points for missing the errors that I spotted]
@BN, sorry mate, but your maps just got rendered obsolete with this new list
@BTW Project: Planets guys, I'll try to generate a new distances file. I'll think I'll do it from scratch because of so many MINOR errors I saw in the master file which I had to correct to get this new release to make sense.
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Considering the + or - 0.01 and that I have not shown the Clan worlds of deep periphery, it is a realitivly minor issue that would not be discernable to the casual observer. Good thing it is done now as I am thinking of getting back into the mapping soon. Still, I'll use this new list for future mapping work, so thanks for the effort.
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Excellent, VoltAmpere. My confidence in the accuracy of these coordinates (compared to the old, outdated FASA ones) jumps leaps & bounds with each new release of your's.
Update: the file has been loading for about 45 minutes now. Its not a large file (718kb), but it must have a lot of formulas to display.
Is there anyway to create a coordinates only file, for those of us interested only in the navigation side of the project? I had been planning to strip this file myself, but as it's not even a third loaded yet, I may not be able to.
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1) CRAP, I made a mistake on my distance formula, which makes everything FARTHER than actual. Thanks to Bad_Syntax's post (quoted below), I tried to see if Roxborough is in the Isfahan system (Roxborough is said to be one jump coreward from Schwartz) I initially got 43 LY, then counter-checked against the PDF but my numbers don't tally. So I verified the formula and boom, found the mistake. Even while on vacation from cartography Syntax is still able to find errors in my work, imagine that. So anyway, unfortunately, I'm still at 35.876LY distance and with one Jump about 29.35467LY [difference of 1.999408parsec distance], I don't think it's the right system. So unless TPTB will say that a single 11-parsec [35.87793LY] jump is completely possible then it's POSSIBLE that Roxborough is in Isfahan, which is 35.876LY coreward from Schwartz.
I also had the following systems that were never on a map, but mentioned, some from http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,261.0/all.html:
Etienne's Sanctuary
Ross 248 (Near Terra) - Maybe 10.3 LY?. Aka Terrelibre
RWR Outpost 27, top left)
Luyten 68-28 (Near Terra) - maybe 8.3 LY? - DC Space
Farhome (90 LY beyond TC)
Taussen - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Obeedah - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Mayadi - one of the 5 WOB hidden worlds
Barnard - Had an HPG A facility, part of first circuit, perhaps its Barnard's Star which is a 1.8pc away?
Roxborough - hidden comstar world?
Haddings - hidden comstar world?
Opotiki - hidden comstar world?
Trisha - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
Trentwash II - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
Alpha Hydri - hidden deep periphery comstar world?
"Terrelibre" could be a planet in Keid, which is 10.591LY from Terra.
I found Haddings in TH c.2571 and LC c.2822-2864, lost by 3025. Only just realized we had coordinates for it when I ran through the 2765 map.
2) I found another error in the formulas, making the coordinates of Fasa and EC821-387D #N/A. They're corrected now in this version.
3) Added another Column that says the number of Jumps from the Reference System to each of the 3060 listed systems. This is just the distance divided by number of LY per jump and rounded up to zero decimal places. Should make it easier to sort systems that are roughly two jumps away, or for plotting single- or double-jump routes through identified systems. Does not take into account if a system was abandoned or undiscovered at that era, so you'll have to further filter the data using the eras columns.
4) @Rev, coordinates + distances.xlsx ready for download just for you
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4) @Rev, coordinates + distances.xlsx ready for download just for you
Thanks, V-Amp. You're the best.
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I tried to see if Roxborough is in the Isfahan system (Roxborough is said to be one jump coreward from Schwartz)
Most assuredly not. Roxborough is detailed in the "Living Legends" scenario module, p. 52: "The Roxborough system consists of three planets. The largest, and the only one that sustains life, was christened Roxborough [...]. The planet was settled in 3051 [...] (essentially as a ComStar Explorer Corps base, because the Clans ignored it or were unawares of it).
Roxborough had been known for much longer than it had been colonized. It is a somewhat inhospitable world with hundreds of active volcanos and a jungle life zone on the equatorial belt complete with dangerous dinosaurs. It has no valuable ores so it was not deemed a viable planet for colonisation.
"Terrelibre" could be a planet in Keid, which is 10.591LY from Terra.
No, it is another name for the Ross 248 system which is one of two hidden ComStar shipyard systems close to Terra.
Edit: And about RWR Outpost 27: According to the rumors that gave us this name in the first place it's an area of space with several systems in in, not a single system.
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Ugh, so there's another system 30LY coreward from Schwartz that's neighboring our good friend Isfahan. I thought Roxborough was the name of a planet in a system, I was not previously aware (or I might have forgotten) that it was the name of the system itself, with the prime planet named also such.
You think we'll ever see those hidden systems in the future?
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One more thing about Terrelibre: It's the new name for the Ross 248 system, but in Jihad Conspiracies it is referred to as Ross 2458.
You think we'll ever see those hidden systems in the future?
Those in the IS, probably yes if they're part of some storyline/plot.
Those in the Periphery, I'd wager not. Because the Periphery is deliberately left a largely unexplored playground by TPTB. Heck, by the time of the Dark Age, most of the IS beyond Republic borders seems to revert to periphery status...
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One more thing about Terrelibre: It's the new name for the Ross 248 system, but in Jihad Conspiracies it is referred to as Ross 2458.
That's merely a typo.
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Minor Updates again:
I used a different method to get the relative coordinates of the four JarnFolk worlds. Previously I used proximity to Alfirk to get the coordinates of the four JF worlds. This time I used the same method I employed that got me the Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Deep Periphery outposts, Pentagon and Kerensky Cluster systems.
the new coordinates are:
Alborg 554.930 499.044
Hamar 593.985 495.067
Hofn 602.133 545.074
Trondheim (JF) 578.460 526.133
Here are the actual coordinates for some of the worlds you have incorrect.
Jarnfolk
Alborg - 558.5, 504.5
Hamar - 599.4, 500.4
Hofn - 606.5, 551.5
Trondheim - 582.4, 542.2
Nueva Castile
Aragon -668.9, 1129.1
Asturias -721.1, 1105.2
Córdoba -691.1, 1153.9
Granada -675.9, 1163.9
León -692.4, 1104.1
Navarre -715.3, 1148.2
Valencia -709.7, 1124.9
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hey Highball, thanks. Can you post me the references for the coordinates so I can align mine accordingly?
EDIT: WOW!!! Analyzing the numbers of the JarnFolk systems, it would appear that we have a pretty consistent X scale (99.258%), but the Y scale is off, which I'll attribute to the Y coordinate you put on Trondheim. Your Y coordinate for Trondheim would put it too close to Hofn, which the Interstellar players map does not corroborate. This could be a typo in either your source or in transferring from that post to this source.
With the X coordinates at 99% accuracy, I am able to identify that my coordinates are OFFSET by <6LY to the LEFT of yours. If only we have more reference points, I would be able to triangulate ["pentagulate"? since I'm actually using five reference points to determine the location of the 6th point] a more accurate placement.
On the Nueva Castile systems, comparing the first six against my data, my X & Y scales are close to 100% accurate, my offset however is another matter [<8LY], which is the same case as the JarnFolk offsets due to the same methodology employed. I really need those reference coordinates :D
EDIT #2: for those who use Bad_Syntax's Cartographer app, I uploaded an updated systems.txt and factions.txt file that uses the new coordinates and also has the 2765 data.
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Minor update to the following files:
systems by era.xlsx
converted coordinates.xlsx
coordinates + distance.xlsx
systems.txt
changes are:
1) minor system renames
2) updated some faction ownerships pre-2822
3) merged the Calish, Davetal, Mica and Niops planets into one entry each, the coordinates of which were extrapolated by getting the midpoint of Calish & Davetal systems and the centroid of the Mica & Niops systems [aka, averaged the X and Y coordinates :D]
note: At this time the error on the 2765 map on showing two Bayeux have been temporarily corrected as follows:
1) retained the name of the original one in the Anjin Muerto area
2) renamed the duplicate system in Point Barrow region to "Diediediediedieidiediedie" until such time that the official [correct] name has been released [please note that there are 8 "Die" in the name, as specified by this post http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17264.msg396554.html#msg396554 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17264.msg396554.html#msg396554)]
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very very minor update to Systems.txt and systems by era.xlsx:
reading Whispering Death [battlecorps] the other day, appears that Hoard already existed in the 2900s so I updated the faction ownership. If you load the txt file to Bad_Syntax's app you will now see Hoard appear from 3025 onwards instead of 3067 onwards.
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Minor update based on the 2750 map:
renamed Diediediediedieidiediedie to Kaufermann
no border changes, no new systems. 2750 is virtually identical to 2765 so I copied all faction ownership of 2765 to 2750.
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2764 map is out... but it's basically a multi-colored version of 2750 and 2765, also "Kaufermann" appears in-map. I did not include it in the database anymore as the faction ownership of the systems are identical with 2750 and 2765.
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Time to bump the topic to the top again.
I'm currently transferring all my coordinates from the base 3130 map to the base 2764 map for several reasons:
1) 2764 map is one page, so it reduces the problems with merging coordinates from two pages
2) 2764 map is the most dense map we have so I'll have to work on fewer actual maps to be able to combine all systems (past and present) in a single plane. Having fewer maps to work with reduces the risk of inconsistency because of the differing XY scales between maps
3) I've found some inconsistencies in the positions of some of the systems in the 3130 map compared to all the more recent maps released by Oystein [Tortuga Prime appears about 7LY lower in the new maps, and Kentares appears 2LY closer to Terra on the new maps, to name some
4) Allows me to recheck all my previous coordinates for typos (I've already spotted several)
At this time I've completed conversion of 722 of the 3054 systems (23.64%). For those that have used previous versions of the coordinates, there will be minimal variance (-0.004LY to +0.018LY average) on the X-axis but about -0.045LY to +0.096LY average on the Y-axis. This is because the 3130 uses a different Y-scale compared to the other maps, but overall still minor. Once I'm done transferring the coordinates I'll be uploading the following:
1) Systems by Era.xlsx [shows the ownership of each system from 2271 to 3130, still WIP]
2) Systems.txt [this is #1 but in a format readable by Bad_Syntax's latest cartographer app] <-- BN, you can use this file to generate your vector maps
3) Factions.txt [companion file of #2 that assigns RGB colors for each faction]
4) Coordinates+Distances.xlsx [System, coordinates, absolute linear distance, and jump distance between systems from a selectable Reference System] <--Rev, this is the lite version just for you
I'll probably take a week since I'm now doing everything myself and work hasn't been very cooperative with free time.
Still hoping HB:HK comes out soon!!!
Pointless Trivia: the centerline of the Caliban Nebula is approximately 840LY North of Syrstart [assuming Y-scale of 2764 is correct]
UPDATE: Sorry for the delay, too much RL stuff eating up my time. I still have 820 coordinates to teansfer before I'm done. On the plus side, the coordinates of the new systems from ISP3 are going to be part of the update, as I,ve already completed them. All deep periphery system coordinates changed because i'm using the scale on the 300LY ruler on the four maps. Hopefully i finish the 820 before the year ends.
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new coordinates! all 3139 mapped systems and clusters with [known] faction ownership per era:
http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/cartography-central/list-of-completed-canon-and-au-maps/msg27018/#msg27018 (http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/cartography-central/list-of-completed-canon-and-au-maps/msg27018/#msg27018)
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Once the moratorium for Era Report: 3145 is out I'll post the updated database showing the new maps, and hopefully the ownership changes between 3135 and 3145. It'll also include minor update to the coordinates. I've changed the source coordinates of 10 systems that originally appeared in the 3130 map to the 3135 map since that is more consistent with the recent releases. I'll also be changing the source coordinates of the four JarnFolk systems from ISP1/ISP3 to 3135 since they appear in the 3135 map (hidden behind the upper-right legend). I found minor naming inconsistencies in the new maps but I won't bother with those anymore as they could be simple typos.