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BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: SteveRestless on 26 August 2017, 13:50:26

Title: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 August 2017, 13:50:26
(http://restless.mechadynamics.net/ramiel.jpg)

I would love it if there were some sort of official statement on why in the bloodnames of the founders, this is occurring. I would love to have more than second-hand paraphrasing from con goers.

Because it sounds like we went from the verge of getting a book that I have been waiting for half a decade to see... to what, maybe a 2019 release? WHY!? Because the book was dry and factual? I would fight a rabid polar bear for a dry, factual sourcebook about this. I would pay five to ten times what the finished sourcebook would cost, just to get a raw draft copy of the book that's been aborted, if I had the option. I don't even care if the material gets invalidated by the official copy, I just want an end to the waiting and wondering and waiting and theorizing and waiting and did I mention the waiting?

[Continues screaming externally]
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: marauder648 on 26 August 2017, 14:25:03
(il)KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNN!!!!!

Curses, but if we have to wait, then we have to wait, no point in grousing about it.  Keep calm and Khany on.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 15:02:19
I feel much the same way - this will be the end of the Clan plotline, something around 20 years in the making, and the last book I plan to buy.

Granted, the bar left by Wars of Reaving is high.  As long as it isn't one of the rumor-style books.

But please, let this be the last delay.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Frabby on 26 August 2017, 15:32:04
Why the rush?
I find I rather like(d) the Republic Era and Dark Age Era, story-wise. And I'm cool with fleshing the current era out a bit more, and add more depth and detail, before consigning it all to the ever-growing scrap heap of bygone BT history and usher in yet another era.

The current LD is primarily an artist. If he feels the current version of ilClan products fails quality check or undersells their potential then I'll take his word for it and gladly wait until CGL feel they're putting out the best possible products, for the most benefit to the game line.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ChrystalNiNja88 on 26 August 2017, 15:46:08
I'm frustrated as well but nothing we can do about it. At least it's a little more time for my beloved republic to live on before it gets shredded.  [blank]
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 15:59:37
I guess its because its been the over-reaching story arc since just after I started playing.  I lost all the opponents I could find, and nowadays most of the BT stuff I buy is oriented to finishing whatever AU project I'm working on.

IlClan represents the end, for me.  Whatever's planned after, time jump or whatever, I'm only going to hear and read about it on the forum or sarna.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Empyrus on 26 August 2017, 16:04:03
I feel much the same way - this will be the end of the Clan plotline, something around 20 years in the making, and the last book I plan to buy.


Why do you think it is the end of the Clan "plotline"? It is the end of the Dark Age era, but the Clan "plotline" continues still, they just become the rulers. Hell, by now the Clans aren't a mere "plotline" that is done away with, they're a faction and a culture. Unless you managed to blow them up, there is no end for their "plotline".

The previous Clan attitude on reforming the Star League has been naive as hell.
1)Conquer Earth
2)???
3)Star League, peace and dueling for everyone!

It will be interesting to see how they will actually form the next Star League or IlKhanate or whatever it should be called. Sure as hell it won't happen in a day.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 16:15:44
Because the whole thing was "return to Narnia Terra".

Anyway, its the final book I want, to close the circle, as it were.  The last one I can justify buying to my wife, anyway.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mendrugo on 26 August 2017, 16:38:47
Because the whole thing was "return to Narnia Terra".

Anyway, its the final book I want, to close the circle, as it were.  The last one I can justify buying to my wife, anyway.

The trick is to get her hooked.  Then you're justifying buying them for her, instead of to her.

From the content of the intro to TRO Succession Wars, it looks like many elements of Herb's Great Leap Forward plan will be retained.  If they keep all of it, that opens the way for a simplified, streamlined rule set covering Rebel vs. Clan Empire fights, while the full existing rules can still be used for when old tech is used in the arenas.  (Caveat - I've seen nothing official on the 3250 setting, but the intro text in the TRO tracks strongly with what was teased about Herb's 3250 plans back when.)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: JadedFalcon on 26 August 2017, 16:45:46
From the CG talk at Gen Con that got posted to YouTube, IlClan sounds less like the capstone project it had been described as before and is now being rewritten to be a jumping-off point with less being resolved. Brent Evan's comments about the writing being flat is noteworthy, and I applaud his effort to spice up the prose and make the product more engaging. But his other comments about leaving loose ends make it sound more like Interstellar Players 4: IlClan. But that's really what AToW supplements are like, so no real changes there.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 26 August 2017, 17:15:19
It seems silly to me to put the resources they did into BMM if they plan to immediately discard it for a new set of rules for 3250. Why is it necessary to the narrative to run away from the 3050-60s? It's not like mechs are programmed to stop function once a clan takes over Terra.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 August 2017, 17:18:57
To clarify with what I remember of devcomments lately: originally the book was supposed to bring 3150 and the 'dark age' era to close, and institute at 100 year timeskip to bring us to 3250  With the new line dev and others, they've decided not to do the timeskip, and instead focus on the post-3150 era with the extant apparent-ilClan being part of the new round of the game.

I'm not a big fan of timeskips, I admit, especially BIG ones like that hundred year jump.  Look how much happened in the 100 years from 3050 to 3149, to suddenly 'status quo nothing happens' for an equal amount of time feels very oddly wrong.  It also gives a big chopping off of all of the characters that we've started to enjoy by handwaving whatever might have been for their future, and not giving them a chance to be more than a footnote.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: JadedFalcon on 26 August 2017, 17:26:40
It seems silly to me to put the resources they did into BMM if they plan to immediately discard it for a new set of rules for 3250. Why is it necessary to the narrative to run away from the 3050-60s? It's not like mechs are programmed to stop function once a clan takes over Terra.

If they are to develop a new set of major rules, it could take a number years. During that time, they'll obviously need capital to fund the development and (hopefully) testing and polishing of the new rules. The primary benefit of the Batmanual may not just be a new and focused introductory product to try and keep the boardgame alive, but also a learning process for the developers on writing rulebooks and developing finished products. But I don't have a copy of the Batmanual, so this is merely speculation.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 26 August 2017, 17:41:01
not buying that. they killed 3250 once already and then decided four years later to bring it back? wasn't the original purpose of IlClan to jump us forward? why change the focus and then after a leadership shakeup change it back again to the original, rejected premise?

seems like bad business to me to feed players a specific version of the game and then a couple years down the like be like "haha jk here's the real game we were working on please forget that other one you were paying for and do this instead!"

why not stick with the rules they were developing years ago? i strongly doubt the original 3250 vision was without any forethought on the boardgame front.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: JadedFalcon on 26 August 2017, 17:56:06
not buying that. they killed 3250 once already and then decided four years later to bring it back? wasn't the original purpose of IlClan to jump us forward? why change the focus and then after a leadership shakeup change it back again to the original, rejected premise?

seems like bad business to me to feed players a specific version of the game and then a couple years down the like be like "haha jk here's the real game we were working on please forget that other one you were paying for and do this instead!"

why not stick with the rules they were developing years ago? i strongly doubt the original 3250 vision was without any forethought on the boardgame front.

Whatever was being developed back when 3250 was first shouted down years ago may not match the current objectives of the company, and they may not even have access to it if the developer didn't make them available. One of the side effects of new management is that they have a tendency to set new business goals, since they are going to be responsible for them. But maybe they are using the same old Free Taiw-St Ives rules or whatever, and they just need to time to make them work and create content for it. Dunno. And with Free Taiw-St Ives, maybe the basic mechanics of Battletech are the same and it's merely the number of dots on the record sheets and modifiers in the to-hit numbers that will be changed. Depends on what their target market is. Are they competing with other boardgames or other miniature combat games?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 17:58:30
The basic rules were never going to change. I have no clue where people are getting some of this stuff from.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Kojak on 26 August 2017, 17:59:36
Where was it said that it was being delayed? I haven't seen that anywhere.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Maingunnery on 26 August 2017, 18:02:32
If they are to develop a new set of major rules, it could take a number years. During that time, they'll obviously need capital to fund the development and (hopefully) testing and polishing of the new rules. The primary benefit of the Batmanual may not just be a new and focused introductory product to try and keep the boardgame alive, but also a learning process for the developers on writing rulebooks and developing finished products. But I don't have a copy of the Batmanual, so this is merely speculation.
Another point: If the manual is written properly, then adding new equipment, should not take more then publishing some new tables.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 26 August 2017, 18:05:30
The basic rules were never going to change. I have no clue where people are getting some of this stuff from.

Little known science fact. It actually is possible to extract usable energy from a vacuum. Unfortunately it can only be used to power speculation.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 18:07:12
Where was it said that it was being delayed? I haven't seen that anywhere.

In three or four different threads, several times, including by Adrian Gideon.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 18:12:58
Look - time jump is irrelevant.  The succession wars-feel is gone, left the building.

New tech, new rules, unit types - and this is a rules game, not a miniature-oriented one - may be added later to the core rules (forcing players to update, or not) or be given their own rules supplement, or whatever.

This was a thread where we were whining about a book being pushed back from a rough publication date.  Start a new one to continue this discussion, will you?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Doom on 26 August 2017, 18:31:04
Considering how long it's been delayed at this point, I'd think people'd be used to it by now.  :-\
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 18:36:34
Considering how long it's been delayed at this point, I'd think people'd be used to it by now.  :-\

I am. I was bothered for a while, but I've gotten over it.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mendrugo on 26 August 2017, 18:44:18
I'm still waiting for the Explorer Corps boxed set!  ;)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 18:46:17
I'm still waiting for the Explorer Corps boxed set!  ;)

You might want to let that one go. ;D
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 26 August 2017, 18:47:09
Considering how long it's been delayed at this point, I'd think people'd be used to it by now.  :-\

After the IO waiting game, I have become numb to the passage of time

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 August 2017, 20:36:23
After the IO waiting game, I have become numb to the passage of time
Try waiting for disability claim processing...
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 26 August 2017, 20:38:32
I hope they do something or put something out soon. They're possibly going to lose people interest as whole franchise with all these delay the longer this takes.  I understand if it's a dud, but they need put something else out.  I can't say i was excited or happy with these products of new Starter Sets and Introduce boxes or a repeat Succession Wars TRO. 

I understand the need for these things, but i'm tired of waiting.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 26 August 2017, 20:42:42
Try waiting for disability claim processing...

(http://puu.sh/xkpWn/d15fbead40.png)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 20:47:36
I hope they do something or put something out soon. They're possibly going to lose people interest as whole franchise with all these delay the longer this takes.  I understand if it's a dud, but they need put something else out.  I can't say i was excited or happy with these products of new Starter Sets and Introduce boxes or a repeat Succession Wars TRO. 

I understand the need for these things, but i'm tired of waiting.

I get you, but BattleTech needs new players right now. The BattleMech Manual, TR: Succession Wars, and the new intro products are absolutely critical for giving folks something to start with.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: HABeas2 on 26 August 2017, 20:49:58
From the content of the intro to TRO Succession Wars, it looks like many elements of Herb's Great Leap Forward plan will be retained.  If they keep all of it, that opens the way for a simplified, streamlined rule set covering Rebel vs. Clan Empire fights, while the full existing rules can still be used for when old tech is used in the arenas.  (Caveat - I've seen nothing official on the 3250 setting, but the intro text in the TRO tracks strongly with what was teased about Herb's 3250 plans back when.)

I wouldn't count on any of that.

- Herb
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mendrugo on 26 August 2017, 21:15:42
I wouldn't count on any of that.

- Herb

Fair enough, but the intro to TRO Succession Wars refers to "employment of these older BattleMechs in the arena system," which was a feature of your setting, as well as references to a "modern" tech base kept off limits to the freebirth masses.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 26 August 2017, 21:25:19
But his other comments about leaving loose ends make it sound more like Interstellar Players 4: IlClan.

Ugh... no.  Just no.

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 26 August 2017, 21:38:32
Ugh... no.  Just no.

Funny, because I have the exact opposite reaction.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: HABeas2 on 26 August 2017, 21:39:57
Fake enough, but the intro to TRO Succession Wars refers to "employment of these older BattleMechs in the arena system," which was a feature of your setting, as well as references to a "modern" tech base kept off limits to the freebirth masses.

Did I say that they'd be arena units in an official capacity? I don't recall that. Or is this something you picked up from my FB leaks?

- Herb
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 22:15:17
Funny, because I have the exact opposite reaction.

Well, I don't.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 August 2017, 22:24:52
Fake enough, but the intro to TRO Succession Wars refers to "employment of these older BattleMechs in the arena system," which was a feature of your setting, as well as references to a "modern" tech base kept off limits to the freebirth masses.
And we have no idea how big that setting is, and whether that's across the entire Inner Sphere or within this tiny little nationstate pretending to be relevant with the Loremaster extolling the Dear Leader's internal policy that no other country bothers to pay attention to.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Alex Keller on 26 August 2017, 23:36:19
So... Do we have any kind of time frame for when we can expect the next plot/sourcebook to come out?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 26 August 2017, 23:44:16
Per standard policy (which they must kinda realize they should have followed after saying, "out in 2017"), no, not to my knowledge.

I'd be happy to be wrong, though.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Alex Keller on 26 August 2017, 23:49:42
Hey, I have no problem with them saying "out in 2017" as long as they explain delays. I just hate the standard "you'll know when it's out" type of statement
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: marauder648 on 27 August 2017, 02:34:41
And we have no idea how big that setting is, and whether that's across the entire Inner Sphere or within this tiny little nationstate pretending to be relevant with the Loremaster extolling the Dear Leader's internal policy that no other country bothers to pay attention to.

Thats kind of what I think the IlClan thing would be.  Perhaps back in the 3050's the whole idea of IlClan made sense, but now you've had the Clans in the Inner Sphere change so much that I doubt they would listen to any one in particular if they managed to grab terra and then go "We are the IlClan! You will follow us now!" 

The foxes are free merchants and would probably see it as a buisness opportunity, the Dominion is a Successor State more than a Clan, both Falcons and Wolves HATE each other so wouldn't listen to the other if they grabbed it and the Horses are seemingly content where they are.

So for all we know this IlClan thing could be, as you said, a kind of re-captured Hegemony, who then yell at everyone to obey them, get promptly ignored or snubbed and then start acting like Space North Korea and be all "We're relevant!"
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 27 August 2017, 03:26:22
That doesn't seem to fit with the bits we've seen so far from 3250.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: marauder648 on 27 August 2017, 04:39:28
The problem is, we don't know and we're then just assuming based on some incredibly limited evidence.  To me the whole thing about the ilClan in the modern era is utterly irrelevant save for bragging rights as the other Clans have changed so much that they won't accept it or will challenge it. They won't bend the knee.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: I am Belch II on 27 August 2017, 06:06:36
I will be happy when it comes out, whenever that is.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: marauder648 on 27 August 2017, 06:13:42
I will be happy when it comes out, whenever that is.

Seyla
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SCC on 27 August 2017, 06:15:17
Fake enough, but the intro to TRO Succession Wars refers to "employment of these older BattleMechs in the arena system," which was a feature of your setting, as well as references to a "modern" tech base kept off limits to the freebirth masses.
Did I say that they'd be arena units in an official capacity? I don't recall that. Or is this something you picked up from my FB leaks?

- Herb
Gotta go with Herb here, what I remember being said was that there would be a single, unified, tech base. Which would point in the opposite direction.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Maingunnery on 27 August 2017, 06:25:09
Gotta go with Herb here, what I remember being said was that there would be a single, unified, tech base. Which would point in the opposite direction.
It seems that outside the arena, that there would be a unified tech base.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SCC on 27 August 2017, 06:36:49
The statement was along the line of: 'One tech base, period', so a different one for using in the arena's would be a no-go
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Maingunnery on 27 August 2017, 06:42:36
The statement was along the line of: 'One tech base, period', so a different one for using in the arena's would be a no-go
That interpretation would have always have been impossible to implement.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Orwell84 on 27 August 2017, 08:24:15
Disappointed with the delay, but not really surprised and I will be grateful when we finally see it. If the writers feel the current version just won't justify the expense, then I'll assume they know what they're talking about. Unlike a certain bestselling fantasy author, at least there won't be spoilers from an accompanying TV series :D
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Robroy on 27 August 2017, 08:57:15
I get you, but BattleTech needs new players right now. The BattleMech Manual, TR: Succession Wars, and the new intro products are absolutely critical for giving folks something to start with.

Hard for new players to get into a game with half the rule books out of print. I am a returning player and I find it frustrating that three of the books I want go for hundreds of dollars.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mendrugo on 27 August 2017, 09:08:38
Unlike a certain bestselling fantasy author, at least there won't be spoilers from an accompanying TV series :D

3049

Somerset

House Steiner watches the Periphery border, for every Lyran schoolchild knows their Words in their heart...

Kerensky is Coming!

(Psst - don't dare to refuse his batchall)

(https://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/2619952.jpg)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Moonsword on 27 August 2017, 09:11:16
Ladies and gentlemen, please remain civil in here.  Delays of ilClan and the entire subject matter can be a bit contentious, so please choose your words with care and be aware that how you come across may not be nearly as pleasant as you think it is.

Let's also try to stay on topic but please do not attempt to guide other posters yourselves.  As ever, if you feel something is against the rules or needs moderator attention, please use the "Report to moderator" link on the post to get our attention.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: William J. Pennington on 27 August 2017, 09:40:40
If the producers of a product feel something needs more work, that is their call. Its not like they don't know there is some eagerness for the product. But better a delay to release a very good, eagerly anticipated product than timely release a eagerly anticipated, but  disappointing product that fell short of its potential. In the end, quality is more important that timely release. You really don't here many people saying "Well, this is crap, but it came out on time, so I'm not going to complain" when it comes to gaming products.

Maybe its getting older and having less energy to burn, but I'vew lost the feel for needing explanations that wont really change how I feel upon getting them, and I've lost all interest in speculation. Maybe its just the dad in me, but my reaction is just that of a road trip: We'll get there when we get there.

In the end, its nothing I  can't enjoy battletech without. Its a nice to have, not a necessity, and I look forward to it whenever it does arrive.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Fear Factory on 27 August 2017, 09:52:49
In all honesty, shouldn't we be used to delays at this point?  Necessary or not?  IMO, ilClan is necessary because it advances the story that has been dormant for a long time.  I guess if they need more time then they need more time.  No sense in expecting more.

My suspicions?  BattleTech is on the back burner for Dragonfire since that's where the money is.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 27 August 2017, 10:06:48
Hard for new players to get into a game with half the rule books out of print. I am a returning player and I find it frustrating that three of the books I want go for hundreds of dollars.

With all of the hand-wringing about the box set scarcity, this is an equally difficult issue. I'm glad BMM is hitting the shelves soon. It's the hidden cost to having a giant core book line that no one saw coming.

You really don't here many people saying "Well, this is crap, but it came out on time, so I'm not goign to complain" when it comes to gaming products.

Ain't that the damn truth

In all honesty, shouldn't we be used to delays at this point?  Necessary or not?  IMO, ilClan is necessary because it advances the story that has been dormant for a long time.  I guess if they need more time then they need more time.  No sense in expecting more.

My suspicions?  BattleTech is on the back burner for Dragonfire since that's where the money is.

Based on the scope of the DF project and the need to meet likely external deadlines by WotC, that isn't far fetched
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Fear Factory on 27 August 2017, 10:14:01
Based on the scope of the DF project and the need to meet likely external deadlines by WotC, that isn't far fetched

Yep.  They have deadlines now, and they can barely make their own deadlines for their own products.

EDIT:  If this is the case they would obviously go for the deadlines that give steady cash flow.  Can't argue with that.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 27 August 2017, 10:40:09

My suspicions?  BattleTech is on the back burner for Dragonfire since that's where the money is.

I'll keep mine to myself, thanks.  But, I'll agree deadlines with another company could be a factor.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 27 August 2017, 10:59:00
Where is the source for this?

Does Reformat means rewriting?
----

Not as bad as it sounds firstly, IMHO. It has been so long delayed for now that I look forward till it will be published, but hardly wait feverishly now.

Fever will rise when publication gets serious, however.  ;D
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 27 August 2017, 11:09:32
If ilClan is the book that's going to define the next time period, then it's going to set the tone for BattleTech for a while - probably years - as well as the mood and theme that the current line developers want to set for BattleTech. Given it's importance as a framing piece, I'd much rather that it's delayed until the guys in charge are completely happy with it and ready to build outward on it, than have it rushed out early. I'm maybe more relaxed than I might be for other books, because I honestly really don't care that much about the Clans and because there are so many other books I'm still chewing through and thinking about, but I think no matter how frustrating it might be to keep waiting, it's better to wait than to be disappointed in the longer term.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Nov. Col. on 27 August 2017, 14:13:22
If ilClan is the book that's going to define the next time period, then it's going to set the tone for BattleTech for a while - probably years - as well as the mood and theme that the current line developers want to set for BattleTech. Given it's importance as a framing piece, I'd much rather that it's delayed until the guys in charge are completely happy with it and ready to build outward on it, than have it rushed out early. I'm maybe more relaxed than I might be for other books, because I honestly really don't care that much about the Clans and because there are so many other books I'm still chewing through and thinking about, but I think no matter how frustrating it might be to keep waiting, it's better to wait than to be disappointed in the longer term.

I agree that a better product is what we all want but these delays are now at what, 4 years?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 27 August 2017, 15:26:17
Where is the source for this?

Does Reformat means rewriting?
The source was Brent Evens, new line developer for Battletech. Essential he didn't like the IlClan book he had waiting for release because it read like after action report.  He wanted a book that was bit more exciting.

Given new manage would want do thing differently, i would imagine that some kind shake up of products were likely to happen. 
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: marauder648 on 28 August 2017, 05:26:18
If ilClan is the book that's going to define the next time period, then it's going to set the tone for BattleTech for a while - probably years - as well as the mood and theme that the current line developers want to set for BattleTech. Given it's importance as a framing piece, I'd much rather that it's delayed until the guys in charge are completely happy with it and ready to build outward on it, than have it rushed out early. I'm maybe more relaxed than I might be for other books, because I honestly really don't care that much about the Clans and because there are so many other books I'm still chewing through and thinking about, but I think no matter how frustrating it might be to keep waiting, it's better to wait than to be disappointed in the longer term.

Amen, better we get the product released and its right rather than one that's simply adequate at best or inadequate at worst.  Sure it sucks we've got to wait, but oh well, i'd rather wait and get the right book than have it rushed out.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 28 August 2017, 07:07:01
I agree that a better product is what we all want but these delays are now at what, 4 years?
So... it's a year ahead of the next Game of Thrones novel, half a decade ahead of Interstellar Operations, and several decades ahead of the sequel to To Kill A Mockingbird?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 28 August 2017, 07:17:22
So... it's a year ahead of the next Game of Thrones novel, half a decade ahead of Interstellar Operations, and several decades ahead of the sequel to To Kill A Mockingbird?

Meanwhile, Half Life 3
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Deadborder on 28 August 2017, 08:57:41
Meanwhile, Half Life 3

Meanwhile, the film adaptation of Rendevous with Rama
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 28 August 2017, 09:58:10
Meanwhile, the film adaptation of Rendevous with Rama

some adaptations are better left in the realm of what if

ILCLAN IS NOT ONE OF THEM PLEASE PUBLISH
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 28 August 2017, 10:47:21
If I might make a suggestion: Give CGL a couple weeks to crawl out of the GenCon/Dragonfire rubble and see if they don't have some more interesting stuff to say. Remember, GenCon wasn't just a Con, it was also a chance to get a bunch of folks together in one place where they can meet and discuss some of the direction of BattleTech in person. Blaine Pardoe put up some pictures of a writers summit that happened during GenCon. Also, John Helfers, Mike Stackpole, and Jennifer Brozek all headed for a table at one of the Hotel restaurants one evening. I know because I was eating there and fanboy'd out on Mr. Stackpole and ambushed him on his way in!

What does this mean? Well, who knows for sure. It could be unrelated to ilClan and just pitching proposals for new fiction in general. Or, it could be part of what Brent is trying to accomplish to make ilClan be more than just another sourcebook. Either way, you may want to give it a couple weeks for the result of all those meetings to solidify a bit and then see if Brent/Ray have anything new they can tell us.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 28 August 2017, 11:12:36
The source was Brent Evens, new line developer for Battletech. Essential he didn't like the IlClan book he had waiting for release because it read like after action report.  He wanted a book that was bit more exciting.

Given new manage would want do thing differently, i would imagine that some kind shake up of products were likely to happen.
Thank you for the info.

So maybe more like the Jihad Hotspots books?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 28 August 2017, 11:21:25
writers summit

M A X I M I Z E F I A T
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Vition2 on 28 August 2017, 11:50:09
So maybe more like the Jihad Hotspots books?

I, for one, certainly hope not, the news article and chaotic report format was very frustrating for me.  And while the Dark Age seems well set up for something like that, I would rather the rumor-mongering stay in the side panels or have section of their own at the end of the book.  I like things to be a bit more concrete than the chaos running amok throughout the Jihad Hotspots series.

As for the "writer's summit," I applaud the effort to get together, but feel like there really doesn't need to be a big event to use as an excuse for such, with all the face-time and screen sharing programs out there right now this can be done at any time - this isn't the 90's where people actually had to meet in person to show off their work.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 28 August 2017, 11:57:45
Interstellar expeditions tended to do a good job of separating what the in-universe writer considered truth vs rumor or speculation with clear labeling. I wouldn't mind a little in-character panic as long as it's registered as such.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 28 August 2017, 12:46:26
I didn't get the impression he wanted to make it like the news clips and recollections style of the Jihad stuff where you never knew what was true. More that he wanted a more entertaining voice to the information that is given.

Think of it like this: Two guys witness the British attack on Fort McHenry. One of them is Francis Scott Key, who writes a poem full of imagery and passion. Its so good we end up using it as the national anthem for the USA. It not only tells you what happens but does so in a colorful and interesting way. The other guy is a supply clerk compiling a damage assessment. It would read something like, "moderate damage to fortifications. Stocks of 18-pounder shot depleted by 60%. Stocks of 24-pounder shot depleted by 73%. Major structural elements of fort servicable. British attack repulsed. Replacement flag required, as current item damaged in bombardment." Which of those two versions would YOU find more exciting to read.

...and yes, I am fully aware some of you goofballs will greatly prefer the second one!
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Vition2 on 28 August 2017, 13:06:49
Interstellar expeditions tended to do a good job of separating what the in-universe writer considered truth vs rumor or speculation with clear labeling. I wouldn't mind a little in-character panic as long as it's registered as such.
Yes, I agree fully.
Think of it like this: Two guys witness the British attack on Fort McHenry. One of them is Francis Scott Key, who writes a poem full of imagery and passion. Its so good we end up using it as the national anthem for the USA. It not only tells you what happens but does so in a colorful and interesting way.
Except that it doesn't, taken as a historical document all it tells you is that a battle occurred in a place and the defenders, who had a banner with stars on it, won.  Basically what I'm saying here is that without a huge amount of context, the song/poem doesn't actually tell us much.

Mostly what I'm getting at is I don't want to see something spread over half a decade with very little concrete details.  This is what I don't want to see:
3146 book - chaos snippets
3147 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3146
3148 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3147
3149 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3148
3150 book - chaos snippets, some real info for 3149
Comprehensive book - organizes everything into a whole history of the conflict, mostly hitting on accurate points.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Nerroth on 28 August 2017, 13:16:36
While IlClan - and whatever new era is to follow - is something I look forward to seeing, I would agree with the sentiment that it is better to wait and have it (re-)done to it maximum potential, rather than have it released before it can complete its evolution.

But if this means that there may be potential gaps between major (as in print+PDF) releases between now and...whenever the revised version of IlClan were to be published, perhaps there could be room for new products which made use of the pre-existing stack of game rules and units.

Personally, I think that the alternate Empires Aflame setting would be a good example of this. Not only would the setting not need any new Record Sheets to be drawn up (though the odd EA-unique unit or two might be interesting to see), it would allow for opportunities to use them in ways that are quite distinct from those available over in the "Prime" BT timeline. And while the original PDF ran as far as alt-3095, there could be plenty of scope to move further along the alternate timeline before running out of "new" (to them) BattleTechnologies to introduce.

But then, if there are plenty of potential "pre-IlClan" products to keep the motor running while the gestation process for whatever the road to 3250 may bring is completed, well and good.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Death by Lasers on 28 August 2017, 13:28:10
  I'm just glad they are putting effort into it rather than another historical as much as I like those.  I'm also glad they are making it more "epic".  I remember on Blaine's blog on some of the early ideas for the Twilight of the Clans Saga that sounded way expansive and cataclysmic than the trail on Strana Mechty we ended up with.  If Brent is going that direction with the material I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 30 August 2017, 13:51:01
(http://restless.mechadynamics.net/ramiel.jpg)

I would love it if there were some sort of official statement on why in the bloodnames of the founders, this is occurring. I would love to have more than second-hand paraphrasing from con goers.

Because it sounds like we went from the verge of getting a book that I have been waiting for half a decade to see... to what, maybe a 2019 release? WHY!? Because the book was dry and factual? I would fight a rabid polar bear for a dry, factual sourcebook about this. I would pay five to ten times what the finished sourcebook would cost, just to get a raw draft copy of the book that's been aborted, if I had the option. I don't even care if the material gets invalidated by the official copy, I just want an end to the waiting and wondering and waiting and theorizing and waiting and did I mention the waiting?

[Continues screaming externally]

Considering I know how the book was written at the time of my booting from status here, I'm trying to grasp how it was considered "dry and factual." It was set up and written as a hybrid between the Jihad:HS series and the Wars of Reaving.

But what do I know about developing sourcebooks under the new management. I mean, all I did was gift wrap them a success... Not my fault the gift horse has been executed.

Remember, the new LD is an artist by specialty. Not a writer. Both are creative, but both are also VERY different when it comes to the process and final product. I find it amusing an artist is critiquing the writing.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 30 August 2017, 13:53:27
not buying that. they killed 3250 once already and then decided four years later to bring it back? wasn't the original purpose of IlClan to jump us forward? why change the focus and then after a leadership shakeup change it back again to the original, rejected premise?

seems like bad business to me to feed players a specific version of the game and then a couple years down the like be like "haha jk here's the real game we were working on please forget that other one you were paying for and do this instead!"

why not stick with the rules they were developing years ago? i strongly doubt the original 3250 vision was without any forethought on the boardgame front.

When I was around, the 3250 idea was scrapped for reasons. Herb and I planned out through 2020 the continuation of product and the timeline past 3150. So...
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 30 August 2017, 14:44:41
Considering I know how the book was written at the time of my booting from status here, I'm trying to grasp how it was considered "dry and factual." It was set up and written as a hybrid between the Jihad:HS series and the Wars of Reaving.

But what do I know about developing sourcebooks under the new management. I mean, all I did was gift wrap them a success... Not my fault the gift horse has been executed.

Remember, the new LD is an artist by specialty. Not a writer. Both are creative, but both are also VERY different when it comes to the process and final product. I find it amusing an artist is critiquing the writing.

I don't recall exactly when you and CGL parted ways, but it has been at least a year or two now, right? It's entirely possible what you and Herb left behind isn't what landed on Brent's desk when he stepped into the LD role. I don't think any of us can be sure what 'ilClan' looked like when Brent and Ray stepped in.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 30 August 2017, 15:04:23
I don't recall exactly when you and CGL parted ways, but it has been at least a year or two now, right? It's entirely possible what you and Herb left behind isn't what landed on Brent's desk when he stepped into the LD role. I don't think any of us can be sure what 'ilClan' looked like when Brent and Ray stepped in.

I stepped away last November. And when I left, it was exactly as it was the last 4 years on the shelf; 95% complete. Ray was part of that whole process, there was no 'stepping in' because he was basically the LD in all but title during that time and loved what had been done.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Iron Mongoose on 30 August 2017, 15:50:27
As to the question of weather to take longer and offer the best product possible, I think that in a case like this it is the right call.  Sure, there will be times when you just need to cut your losses and get a product out, but if the ilClan book is to set the tone for what is to come, then it has to have the right tone in and of itself. 

Now, not having been there, I can't say how it looked before.  One of thouse who can has said, and the others I think are unlikely to either conferm or deny the claim, so I can't know what's right.  But, if we are to have a line director, then that line director needs to be alowed to direct.  It may be that director has bad direction (again, untill the book comes out I've got no evidance either way, but I do hope for the best) and that's a problem for the folks who employ him, but so long as he has their trust, then I think he has not just the right but the responcability to judge what is right for the line and what is not.  At least until the book is published, at which time we all get to judge, I suppose.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: MarauderD on 30 August 2017, 16:03:59
I'd take ilClan as is, and would love to have the opportunity to decide if it was dry and factual. If it is anything like Wars of Reaving, then I doubt it. Art schmart, I want to know what is happening!
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 30 August 2017, 17:39:05
I stepped away last November. And when I left, it was exactly as it was the last 4 years on the shelf; 95% complete. Ray was part of that whole process, there was no 'stepping in' because he was basically the LD in all but title during that time and loved what had been done.

Interesting. For some reason I thought you had been away longer than that! Since I'm the one who originally tried to report what Brent was saying, I feel like I may have given you the impression that he was more negative or down on the current state of ilClan than he really was. He had a pretty long spiel about it, and I tried to condense and pull out what sounded important to me. The comment about reading like a military report was just something that was concise and resonated with me so I repeated it. He said a bunch of other stuff that was harder to condense as well, and didn't have much to do with how the book read to him.

Most of what he said gave the the impression that the majority of what he wanted to see worked on was not between the covers of the book called ilClan. He made no promises or anything, but I got the impression he felt ilClan needed to be more than a sourcebook release, and was trying to line other stuff up to support or add to it. Maybe you and Herb tried to do the same thing, and he is carrying old plans forward. Maybe I'm way off on my read of Brent and Ray and they decided to make some big changes to what you left. Either way, I'm just glad that it looks like ilClan is finally moving again.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 August 2017, 17:48:50
. . . looks like ilClan is finally moving again.

You know a glacier moves too . . ?

I think they really need to get something out to start moving the timeline forward, and it would not be little sentence teasers in a TRO.  If that means they have a series of PDF-only type stuff they want to start releasing it does need to move forward.  Right now what is out is sort of hard to build some buzz and forward momentum for the franchise.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mendrugo on 30 August 2017, 18:24:56
What would be nice would be an anthology of fiction fleshing out the key touchpoints of ilClan, possibly in conjunction with a Turning Points set of Tracks, and an Era Digest spotlighting the key movers and shakers, and the factions involved in the ilClan storyline.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 30 August 2017, 18:42:58
I hope this thing isnt more fluffly and less thoughtful. Battletech has always wonderfully been a detailed universe. IlClan era needs to be balanced between both extremes.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Doom on 30 August 2017, 19:01:11
Sometimes I think that the (present) issue with ilClan coming it is analogous to when a new boss comes into a company/department. Doesn't matter how well things were going under the previous person. The new boss has to make (arbitrary) changes to distinguish things under his/her leadership from the prior gal/guy. It's frustrating as all hell for anyone who's suffered through it. It's also nearly inevitable. I'd consider the Combat Manual delay (and lack of even PDF products) as a symptom of this. :(
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: HABeas2 on 30 August 2017, 19:23:37
Ding!

- Herb
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ChrystalNiNja88 on 30 August 2017, 20:37:37
I'm just hoping the ilClan is not Clan Wolf. They really need to lose. LOSE, I TELL YOU!

And yes, I've seen the pic of Devlin and a Mad Cat mk IV in a Circle of Equals, and I hope punches that Mad Cat right in the face! >:D


....it'll probably be the wolves....
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 August 2017, 21:47:41
I'm just hoping the ilClan is not Clan Wolf. They really need to lose. LOSE, I TELL YOU!

And yes, I've seen the pic of Devlin and a Mad Cat mk IV in a Circle of Equals, and I hope punches that Mad Cat right in the face! >:D


....it'll probably be the wolves....

So, you have not read anything from 90s & 00s, just Bonfire of Worlds?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Firesprocket on 30 August 2017, 22:06:40
Ding!
Fries are done!
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: RotS fan on 30 August 2017, 22:12:35
So, you have not read anything from 90s & 00s, just Bonfire of Worlds?
He probably have, and probably that's why he doesn't want the Wolf as ilClan. The story couldn't be more predictable if that  happens. Also, Wolf is the Davion of the Clans, anyone sane should be tired of them by now
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 August 2017, 22:29:22
lmao . . . They had a run in the invasion (early 90s), and that was it . . . until Bonfire (over 20 years later), so keeping in mind the Capellan winning . . . that might be an apt comparison.

And your right, it is predictable . . . because that is what the books were leading up to until they stumbled on releasing IlClan.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SCC on 30 August 2017, 22:45:16
lmao . . . They had a run in the invasion (early 90s), and that was it . . . until Bonfire (over 20 years later), so keeping in mind the Capellan winning . . . that might be an apt comparison.

And your right, it is predictable . . . because that is what the books were leading up to until they stumbled on releasing IlClan.
Yep, a period of Davion and Capellan being on equal ground would probably be good for things right about now
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Red Pins on 31 August 2017, 00:07:59
Sometimes I think that the (present) issue with ilClan coming it is analogous to when a new boss comes into a company/department. Doesn't matter how well things were going under the previous person. The new boss has to make (arbitrary) changes to distinguish things under his/her leadership from the prior gal/guy. It's frustrating as all hell for anyone who's suffered through it. It's also nearly inevitable. I'd consider the Combat Manual delay (and lack of even PDF products) as a symptom of this. :(

...also known as, "Take it out - he doesn't work here any more."

Well.  It will come out eventually, (when they start to run out of backfill and projects like TRO: SS, probably) and we'll decide if the re-write was worth it.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Iron Mongoose on 31 August 2017, 01:41:49
...also known as, "Take it out - he doesn't work here any more."


Well, the stacked quotes thing isn't working properly, but I hope we all know who else chimed in here.

Anyway, I too have lived through this, and I too found dismay in it (and a few times a new job soon after, sometimes at my own instigation, sometimes not).  But, to be a devils advocate (and again mind I'm not in these meetings, so my insights are going to be worse than Herb's or Ben's, perhaps) there's a difrence between a buisness where the goal is clearly defined (usually just making money) and something involving artistic direction.  If I go in to manage a bank, I'm not going to make changes  unless I have a good faith belief they'll boost my numbers.  When I've had people come in over me, I can usualy just point to my performance (generally top of the table) to say that I'm already using best practices.

But, in an essentally artistic endevour, what are best practices?  How do you get your numbers up on the quality of writing, or the direction of a story?

So if your goal is to impart a sense of creative authorship on a project that must now bare your name (at least after a fashon, since I don't know how actual authorial credit would be assigned) then is that irrational changing something that was good anyway?  Or is that rational? 

Like I say, I'm not in the meeting, I'm not in a related field, and I don't know the people in question.  But, I do think that the decision to make a chance isn't nessissarialy irrational, even if the changed product may well have seemed like a quality product.  Of course, it isn't nessissarialy rational, either.

All I know is, as we've all said, however we may judge this decision, we will judge the finished product.  If this is to set the tone for a new era, and we're to wait for it, it had better prove to be a damn good tone.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 31 August 2017, 04:56:16
Ultimately the danger of delaying a project for too long runs the risk of the final product being crushed under the weight of expectations. Whether it is ultimately better than the original version becomes immaterial and meeting expectations proves a more and more difficult task as time goes on. Our community desire for ilClan to be good multiplied by the anticipation  could ultimately undermine its reception and perceived quality. If we're unhappy in any way, our natural tendency is to assume the original would have been better... or at least couldn't have been worse. One of the most dangerous things in sales is when the customer decides what they want before you tell them what it is.

It reminds me of the Patton quote "A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later."
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Kazashi on 31 August 2017, 06:15:53
It may be a little impertinent to comment without seeing the entirety of what the new LD said about ilClan, but this reformat is leaving me disappointed, and a little concerned. Would people make the claim that the writing from books such as WoR, ISP3 and the two Succession Wars books result in them reading like military reports? Is it really that necessary to spice up ilClan even if it will be covering a major transition in BattleTech history?

So it's back to waiting. I'm sure there are lots of people who are also eagerly awaiting ilClan, or from the other side would love to get it out the door. I for one would love to read GhostBear's version given how much I've enjoyed his other work, and am struggling to see how it would need a reformat if indeed it is like WoR/JHS but, well, you know.... I'll just keep waiting.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Foxx Ital on 31 August 2017, 06:39:23
What boggles my mind is ilclan sitting on the shelf for that long. Hearing there needs to be a rewrite only raises my expectations, which after this long of a wait means theres a good chance of me feeling about it as most ppl do about the third matrix movie.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 31 August 2017, 08:22:13
I'm just hoping the ilClan is not Clan Wolf. They really need to lose. LOSE, I TELL YOU!

And yes, I've seen the pic of Devlin and a Mad Cat mk IV in a Circle of Equals, and I hope punches that Mad Cat right in the face! >:D


....it'll probably be the wolves....

It's the Wolves. Sometimes the obvious plot is obvious. Come on, Alaric couldn't be more "destined hero" if he tried. Let's go down the classical hero checklist.

1. Rightful heir to half the Inner Sphere (or four fifths, if you include Victor's ties to the Draconis Combine and Free Worlds League)
2. Child of two of the greatest (or, at least, most influential) rulers the Inner Sphere has ever seen
3. Product of incest; I know it's gross, but that's a pretty classical hero trait
4. Not born of woman
5. Born in exile
6. Raised by Wolves
7. Name means "conqueror," though of course this is deliberate in-universe

Unless Brent chooses to have something come out of left field, Alaric will be the ilKhan of the ilClan. Of course, just because we (probably) know this does not mean that there still aren't stories to tell.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Peter Smith on 31 August 2017, 08:40:06
...it was exactly as it was the last 4 years on the shelf; 95% complete...

Four years and the book didn't get that last 5% completed? That's a failure of the line developers and the writer in charge of the book.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 31 August 2017, 09:01:55
Four years and the book didn't get that last 5% completed? That's a failure of the line developers and the writer in charge of the book.

Nope, it's a failure for the owners to pay like they promised; the last 5% was mine and Schmetzer's material, and we did it as a boycott. I don't consider that a failure on our part.

Both Loren and Randall promised to pay all the writers for their material submitted when they determined they were going to put it on hold for a while, to make sure we were all compensated for our time and effort in trying to meet their original "hurry up and get it out" request. After repeated reminders to no avail - including proof of the original email with that specific promise - we just gave up and didn't bother finishing it.

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Punishermark on 31 August 2017, 09:29:52
Nope, it's a failure for the owners to pay like they promised; the last 5% was mine and Schmetzer's material, and we did it as a boycott. I don't consider that a failure on our part.

Both Loren and Randall promised to pay all the writers for their material submitted when they determined they were going to put it on hold for a while, to make sure we were all compensated for our time and effort in trying to meet their original "hurry up and get it out" request. After repeated reminders to no avail - including proof of the original email with that specific promise - we just gave up and didn't bother finishing it.

Someone finally posts the real reason why Catalyst is in dire straits. Lack of $$$.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 31 August 2017, 09:31:00
Nope, it's a failure for the owners to pay like they promised; the last 5% was mine and Schmetzer's material, and we did it as a boycott. I don't consider that a failure on our part.

Both Loren and Randall promised to pay all the writers for their material submitted when they determined they were going to put it on hold for a while, to make sure we were all compensated for our time and effort in trying to meet their original "hurry up and get it out" request. After repeated reminders to no avail - including proof of the original email with that specific promise - we just gave up and didn't bother finishing it.

For the record, when Herb fired me, he made sure that my payment for Era Digest: Age of War was expedited. It's a damn shame you guys haven't been paid for your work; I know it's one of Herb's complaints as well, and very valid.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: RotS fan on 31 August 2017, 10:02:54
Nope, it's a failure for the owners to pay like they promised; the last 5% was mine and Schmetzer's material, and we did it as a boycott. I don't consider that a failure on our part.

Good old CGL! I'm even more sympathetic towards you and Herb after this.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sartris on 31 August 2017, 10:18:05
Someone finally posts the real reason why Catalyst is in dire straits. Lack of $$$.

I thought it was kind of an open secret at this point
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Mindwiper on 31 August 2017, 10:31:51
What happened years ago with the writers and the Line Developer is a real shame. A naked walk through the masses should be initiated.

I can only laugh out very loud about the sorry excuse of 'rewriting IlClan'. Come on...Half a decade with a nearly finished core, core, core Sourcebook and suddenly this happens? There are not enough LOL smilies for that.

No IlClan, a book everyone wants, but dozens of PDF books like 'Touring the Stars' only some hardcore fans buy... Yeah! You know how to make money to bring the product Battletech in the 21st century.

7+ years no IlClan
2-3 years no Introbox
new Alpha Strike products...nowhere on the horizon

But hey...Dragons breath fire...quiaff?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Moonsword on 31 August 2017, 11:15:36
Okay, folks, reign it in.  The moderation staff is closely observing this thread and we appreciate everyone remaining civil and refraining from incendiary hyperbole.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 31 August 2017, 13:36:11
Hmm, IMHO reformating should not need so much time as a complete overhauling/rewriting.
So first (or second) quarter of 2018 for a release should be possible. IMHO
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sellsword on 31 August 2017, 14:41:26
Someone finally posts the real reason why Catalyst is in dire straits. Lack of $$$.

Lack of funds is an issue but from the outside it appears what they really have is a management problem.



Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Sellsword on 31 August 2017, 14:44:49
Ilclan will be the last hurrah for me unless CGL does something dramatic with the IP or the IP goes to another company.

Unfortunately when and if the IlClan is released, the book will be hard pressed to live up to the 5+ years of delays and hype.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Peter Smith on 31 August 2017, 15:16:46
Nope, it's a failure for the owners to pay like they promised; the last 5% was mine and Schmetzer's material, and we did it as a boycott. I don't consider that a failure on our part.

Generally speaking, what were the payment terms in your contract? Pay on delivery or pay on publishing?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Easy on 31 August 2017, 15:23:33
 Eh. This might have been my default scenario.

I'll grant you that it looks alot like, 'let's restore the old order'. It just still sort of sticks in my craw to see the Lyran Commonwealth go down like that. I'm sure it would be the same if it were any of the original Great Houses (except maybe the Cappellans, lol).

Old habits die hard, though. I'm interested in seeing what the 'new order' will bring.

(http://i.imgur.com/vKAmCPJ.png)

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 31 August 2017, 15:33:19
Generally speaking, what were the payment terms in your contract? Pay on delivery or pay on publishing?

I know what you're getting at, to absolve them because the letter of the written contract (pay on publication). (And for the sake of argument here, let's ignore the fact that they've been breaching THAT clause all the time for the last 8-10 years ANYWAY.)

In an email conversation, ALD to LD (then Randall), after concerns were raised by me about the sudden removal of the project - specifically AFTER it was shoved into fast track mode roughly 8 months prior - I was told to tell the contributors that they would be paid for their work even though it hadn't been published. I clarified if that was an agreement in good faith and was told it was. In writing.

And no money was ever seen by any of the contributors.

Since my material - and the remaining short stories that Jason was doing for the book - was held off on the writing until after all other work was done (because we needed the others' material turned in so we could 'wrap up' the content properly), we hadn't finished. And when, after a year of constant queries (all ignored) passed by, we simply opted to not finish our work because it was apparent that if the others weren't getting paid as promised, we wouldn't be either. So why waste the time?

You can defend them using the letter of the contract, sure. Are you wrong to do so? No. Are they in the wrong by doing so? No.

(Again, setting aside so many other contracts with writers that are still outstanding, 5+ years later in some cases, AND the fact that it was said in correspondence that the clause would be waived.)

But it doesn't make it right, either.

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 31 August 2017, 15:39:35
Both of you. THAT IS ENOUGH. If you want to continue debating contract details, do it in private, do it on another site, do it somewhere that isn't HERE.

I shouldn't even have to step in like this. I'm not pleased to do so. Think very carefully before pushing the issue further.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: GhostBear on 31 August 2017, 15:40:59
Both of you. THAT IS ENOUGH. If you want to continue debating contract details, do it in private, do it on another site, do it somewhere that isn't HERE.

I shouldn't even have to step in like this. I'm not pleased to do so. Think very carefully before pushing the issue further.

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/82/8257de2e997dc0ce60b49de7931fd796843b87cf660146eaa8d6af049ae66335.jpg)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Doom on 31 August 2017, 15:53:53
It's the Wolves. Sometimes the obvious plot is obvious. Come on, Alaric couldn't be more "destined hero" if he tried. Let's go down the classical hero checklist.

1. Rightful heir to half the Inner Sphere (or four fifths, if you include Victor's ties to the Draconis Combine and Free Worlds League)
2. Child of two of the greatest (or, at least, most influential) rulers the Inner Sphere has ever seen
3. Product of incest; I know it's gross, but that's a pretty classical hero trait
4. Not born of woman
5. Born in exile
6. Raised by Wolves
7. Name means "conqueror," though of course this is deliberate in-universe

Unless Brent chooses to have something come out of left field, Alaric will be the ilKhan of the ilClan. Of course, just because we (probably) know this does not mean that there still aren't stories to tell.

I figured "Alaric" was just a direct reference to the king of the Visigoths, who sacked Rome and in so doing helped end the (Western) Empire. Substitute the Republic (as Rome supposedly was) for the Empire...
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 31 August 2017, 16:36:32
At this point, I've been convinced that who wins is less important than how the rest of the sphere deals with someone winning. So, there will be an ilClan...regardless of which clan that is, are the others really going to roll over and just merge with them? Do they even need to, or will they be allowed to remain separate and just sort of be vassals to the ilClan? Heck, the campaign for Terra could very likely be a meat grinder. Will the ilClan be strong enough to STAY ilClan? No matter which clan it is, there is plenty of narrative space there to make things turn out just as messy as you please if that is the desire.

Also, as a Davion fan, may I request that we get to keep New Avalon? I'm okay with the kicking in the teeth we have received recently (it was due, if I'm honest), but can we maybe keep the capital? You took Robinson and most of the Draconis March, and I let it go. You took New Syrtis and a big chunk of the Capellan march, and I figured, "fair play for the 4th succession war." You even started picking apart the Periphery March with the Ravens and Filtvelt and I didn't get upset. Look, I'll even let you hoover up some more of the Crucis march over by the Dragons Tongue, and push up closer to Kathil on the Capellan side. You can even carve a few more planets off for the Ravens! Just let us keep New Avalon. Deal?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 August 2017, 16:57:13
Due?  Its been Capellan winning since '55- aka the late 90s.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: MarauderD on 31 August 2017, 16:57:25
As a Davion fan, I want Robinson back. New Syrtis can be burned to shiny Dragonglass for the White Walkers, along with all of the Hasek line. But man, Robinson has suffered enough over the years. (OK fine, I just want the Black Knight line back, ok?)
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Moonsword on 31 August 2017, 17:34:07
Take the eternal FedSuns/CapCon "who's winning" debate to another thread.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: TigerShark on 31 August 2017, 17:58:19
I figured "Alaric" was just a direct reference to the king of the Visigoths, who sacked Rome and in so doing helped end the (Western) Empire. Substitute the Republic (as Rome supposedly was) for the Empire...
If there is a direct, literary parallel, then Clan Wolf would, most likely, attempt to merge with the Republic of the Sphere as opposed to conquering it. Alaric, in history, didn't simply sack Rome and walk away. He attempted to earn positions within the Roman military by laying siege to the capital.

So I'm guessing he'd be appointed as a Paladin of the Republic and eventually move toward some sort of "legitimacy" as ruler. All the while occupying Terra and the other vital worlds as leverage.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 31 August 2017, 19:21:17
Well if I were to think about it, I imagine a merger with the Republic of the Sphere, not unlike that of the Rasalhague Dominion (given the continued presence of an exarch.

After that, we see a surrender of the Lyran Commonwealth, or at the very least that part trapped between the Wolves and Falcons. This is just a measure of practicality, as they've essentially lost faith in their government, and surrender to the Wolves is infinitely superior to being conquered by the Falcons. This gives the Wolf Empire the industrial capacity of the core Republic worlds, as well as the better part of the Commonwealth.

Next, war with the Falcons. The Jade Falcon clan will probably have to die completely. They arrayed themselves as the biggest immediate threat to the new Empire. The Free Worlds League is in a tenuous enough position that they might accept a diplomatic alliance (formal unification to come later). The Wolf/Falcon war might actually begin after the falcons attack the hell's horses in revenge for them backing out of their alliance. The Horses bend the knee out of gratitude.

The rest is a few decades of diplomacy, war, and assimilation.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 31 August 2017, 20:17:00
I'll be happy if they spoke to use directly what their plans are.  Frankly this big stretches of nothing is not good.

Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 31 August 2017, 20:46:07
If there is a direct, literary parallel, then Clan Wolf would, most likely, attempt to merge with the Republic of the Sphere as opposed to conquering it. Alaric, in history, didn't simply sack Rome and walk away. He attempted to earn positions within the Roman military by laying siege to the capital.

So I'm guessing he'd be appointed as a Paladin of the Republic and eventually move toward some sort of "legitimacy" as ruler. All the while occupying Terra and the other vital worlds as leverage.

I think that's the idea. Clan Wolf takes over as rulers and the core of the Third League Armed Forces, with the former Republic government providing the bureaucracy.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 31 August 2017, 20:58:56
Hopping on this hypothetical train, what's Malvina doing in all this?  There's really not all that much between the Wolves and the Republic; it's mostly the Falcons that surround the Skye thumb.  If there was a general break-up and absorption I'd imagine the area would go green instead of brown.  Now, the League on the other hand, there's a lot more of their worlds between the empire and the republic.

Still, that also prompts another major question.  Looking at the potential break points, is Tharkad included in the ilClan republic?  It would strengthen Alaric's general leadership claim since he's Katherine's kid, and two major capitals would be an impressive feat.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ColBosch on 31 August 2017, 21:06:40
The impression I'm getting is that the Third League conquers everyone.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: TigerShark on 31 August 2017, 23:46:24
Yeah, I imagine there would be some sort of military build up. Especially naval assets. Followed by a "Pentagon Powers" invasion of each of the Great Houses. A historical repeat of Operation Klondike, but on a massive scale. I can also imagine it following along the lines of Gerrik N'Buta's suggestion that the 3049 invasion be a team effort and not fractured by bidding and inner conflict. Horses become the "mechanized divisions," while the Snow Ravens are obviously the naval assets. The other Clans act in concert with strategic goals, conquering one House at a time and bringing them under a new Star League.

Something tells me that the Homeworld Clans have some part to play in this. Possibly after all is said and done, acting as a foil for the new "SLDF." Maybe becoming a reason for the Sphere to stop fighting each other and focus on the outside threat. A new Word of Blake, if you will.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 01 September 2017, 05:56:45
Only Problem with that is the Home Clans industry was horribly hobbled in the Reaving.  Writer wise, there no support really for use of WarShips in Battletech since it prevents in theory stompy robot action. So there likely going be barely any new ships at all if there a invasion unless they lied in GenCon WhatUpwithCatalyst. 

If Clan invasion Dark Age Style comes at IlClan, they would have needed to build large jumpship transport fleet and built up their dropship assets to transport what armies they could muster by the time IlClan happened.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Major Headcase on 01 September 2017, 06:34:24
   I think I would be just as happy to never see ilclan released... I loved how Dark Age started, but as the story unfolded from 3132 to 3145+ it just got more and more silly and over the top for me. Magical Space Fortesses and Frozen Stone Resurrection was the last straw for me. 😂 while Battletech has always been true Space Opera, at the end there it reached "Telemundo Spanish Channel Soap Opera" levels of eye-rolling melodrama...
   I just can't see the ilclan story arc dragging Battletech back to the more gritty and realistic military drama it started out as, especially  since the Clans (for me at least) are themselves pretty over the top to begin with, drama-wise. Too often the Clanners are written as one act trick ponies, gimmicky caricatures of comic book villains. I tend to read all Clan dialog in TOS William Shatners voice... 😂  Playing in an Era where their whole "Dances With Wolves meets Macbeth"  behaviour is dominant makes the hair on my neck stand up...
   Please, CGL, take ALL the time you need.... 😉
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: sadlerbw on 01 September 2017, 08:33:06
I'll be happy if they spoke to use directly what their plans are.  Frankly this big stretches of nothing is not good.

I don't think this is a fair statement. It was just a couple weeks ago at GenCon where they leaders of the company sat down for an hour and talked about their plans, then the lead on the BattleTech line sat down with the fans for another hour answering questions. Yes, that was at GenCon and not on the forums, but us folks who were there tried to pass on as much info about what happened as we could. I can understand if they didn't like what they said, or if you would have liked more detail, but really we just got the biggest info dump of the year a couple weeks ago. I feel like that counts for speaking directly about what their plans are.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 01 September 2017, 08:37:36
I don't think this is a fair statement. It was just a couple weeks ago at GenCon where they leaders of the company sat down for an hour and talked about their plans, then the lead on the BattleTech line sat down with the fans for another hour answering questions. Yes, that was at GenCon and not on the forums, but us folks who were there tried to pass on as much info about what happened as we could. I can understand if they didn't like what they said, or if you would have liked more detail, but really we just got the biggest info dump of the year a couple weeks ago. I feel like that counts for speaking directly about what their plans are.
I greatly appreciate the service you and the others have done to post us what was said.  I just felt that not posting it so others who may no be as savvy to find such information on what was going on is unfair.  I know they have to be careful what they say, i get that. I understand were almost crazy mob about our beloved Battletech and it's hard deal with.

We used to have Blogs done by Randall posting on the main webpage what was next steps were.  We need that.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Foxx Ital on 01 September 2017, 09:01:48
I greatly appreciate the service you and the others have done to post us what was said.  I just felt that not posting it so others who may no be as savvy to find such information on what was going on is unfair.  I know they have to be careful what they say, i get that. I understand were almost crazy mob about our beloved Battletech and it's hard deal with.

We used to have Blogs done by Randall posting on the main webpage what was next steps were.  We need that.

Its great they wanna talk about it at gencon, but having to rely on second hand according is almost a game of telephone. Being treated like mushrooms gets old after a while, so don't be surprised when the people under the stairs REEEEEE when someone in the know turns the lights on.
 
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 01 September 2017, 09:58:40
Personally, as much as I would like to see IlClan, I would much rather get some novels fleshing out the time period from 3138-3150.  The last two Battletech novels chronologically are "To Ride the Chimera" (ending in 3139), and Bonfire of Worlds (Ending in 3143 I think?). 

That leaves the Draconis Combine/Federated Suns/Capellan Confederation all needing to be more fleshed out from 3137-3145.  And novels about what is going in Fortress Republic during all this time, Operation Damatio, etc.  I'd rather have novels to read than a big sourcebook pushing the timeline even more forward.

Look at what you have right now with novels trying to fill in the Jihad era.  I don't want Catalyst to constantly be catching up in story with the novels.  Novels should be EXPANDING the story, and sourcebooks should be summarizing it or providing bigger picture.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 September 2017, 10:06:05
   I think I would be just as happy to never see ilclan released... I loved how Dark Age started, but as the story unfolded from 3132 to 3145+ it just got more and more silly and over the top for me. Magical Space Fortesses and Frozen Stone Resurrection was the last straw for me. 😂 while Battletech has always been true Space Opera, at the end there it reached "Telemundo Spanish Channel Soap Opera" levels of eye-rolling melodrama...
   I just can't see the ilclan story arc dragging Battletech back to the more gritty and realistic military drama it started out as, especially  since the Clans (for me at least) are themselves pretty over the top to begin with, drama-wise. Too often the Clanners are written as one act trick ponies, gimmicky caricatures of comic book villains. I tend to read all Clan dialog in TOS William Shatners voice... 😂  Playing in an Era where their whole "Dances With Wolves meets Macbeth"  behaviour is dominant makes the hair on my neck stand up...
   Please, CGL, take ALL the time you need.... 😉

 You and me pal. I really hope this new "3rd Star League" and clan shenanigans stay far from the Periphery.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SteveRestless on 01 September 2017, 10:08:58
Novels could be great. But the inability cgl has demonstrated in getting out new story fiction has me wary. There is absolutely no reason that the finished or near finished book couldn't drop first and be followed by novels. It is shameless to damn us to this eternal stagnation. Plus, the constant back fill with things like the early succession wars books demonstrates that the developers are no strangers to releasing past books. It's not like once ilclan drops, they can't go back and tell the story in fiction.

Novels could also be terrible. The franchise would be much better off without the first ten or twenty mwda novels. If it would be a repeat of that, I would really rather not have them.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Adacas on 01 September 2017, 10:09:22
I hope that the Clanners and those who managed to remain confined in the area of the Terran Hegemony and nothing else, that the Periphery grows alone and that the backwaters of the houses seek to survive without the interference of the Clans and fighting with them, that to be surrendered would be very sad as an attempt at rebirth
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: CungrVanck on 01 September 2017, 10:51:03
Well if I were to think about it, I imagine a merger with the Republic of the Sphere, not unlike that of the Rasalhague Dominion (given the continued presence of an exarch.

After that, we see a surrender of the Lyran Commonwealth, or at the very least that part trapped between the Wolves and Falcons. This is just a measure of practicality, as they've essentially lost faith in their government, and surrender to the Wolves is infinitely superior to being conquered by the Falcons. This gives the Wolf Empire the industrial capacity of the core Republic worlds, as well as the better part of the Commonwealth.

Next, war with the Falcons. The Jade Falcon clan will probably have to die completely. They arrayed themselves as the biggest immediate threat to the new Empire. The Free Worlds League is in a tenuous enough position that they might accept a diplomatic alliance (formal unification to come later). The Wolf/Falcon war might actually begin after the falcons attack the hell's horses in revenge for them backing out of their alliance. The Horses bend the knee out of gratitude.

The rest is a few decades of diplomacy, war, and assimilation.

Your thoughts are similar to my own:

1) Fortress Wall comes down, Republic comes out blazing.

2) During the fighting, Wolves repel the Republic attack and/or do a deep raid to take Terra and cut supply lines.

3) Wolves take Terra, becoming IlClan, take over the Republic and all but one Clan goes "meh...don't care".

4) That one Clan is the Jade Falcons and with a not level headed leader at the helm they do something stupid in anger at losing Terra to the Wolves...like maybe dropping nukes/weapons of mass destruction on Terra level stupid.

5) This act, whatever it is, enrages the other Clans and unites them against the Falcons.

6)  Clan Jade Falcon falls to the other Clans and the Lyran Commonwealth capitulates as most of the fighting is in their territory/Wolf takes Tharkad with combined Clan forces to claim the throne for Alaric

7)  Other powers, who have been fighting their own wars, get very nervous seeing this result.

This is where it gets tricky/mostly guess work......

8)  Clan Wolf invites other powers to join the new Star League....FWL might join if given help in taking former worlds, FedSuns might join to beat off the Combine and Confederation, Heir to the Taurian throne might join if given help uniting their nation

9) The nations that don't join see the writing on the wall, but resist.  Maybe the Clans smash one to make a point.  The Combine is uniquely positioned for a big beat down. Confederation and Canopus submit, but plots behind the scenes.

10) Over time, through war and diplomacy, all nations merge and/or are conquered by the IlClan

11) Then 3250....or whatever year is selected happens...NEW ERA
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 01 September 2017, 11:31:12
Only Problem with that is the Home Clans industry was horribly hobbled in the Reaving.  Writer wise, there no support really for use of WarShips in Battletech since it prevents in theory stompy robot action. So there likely going be barely any new ships at all if there a invasion unless they lied in GenCon WhatUpwithCatalyst. 

If Clan invasion Dark Age Style comes at IlClan, they would have needed to build large jumpship transport fleet and built up their dropship assets to transport what armies they could muster by the time IlClan happened.

IMHO the Homeclans are a wildcard.

Time given since the connections to the Inner Sphere were cut, there could have been a massive reconstruction program and new Golden Age in the Home Clan space region. They might have even decided that they do not want to invade the Inner Sphere and move to exploit (or even settle) unknown space regions.

The Homeclans would never have the numbers of the Inner Sphere but quality (better technology) would be an interesting choice for them.

When the Inner Sphere might get united under the aegis of a Wolf ilClan a conflict with the Home clans will be very likely, imho.
I would like to have a deep space war of attrition, no side getting a deciding advantage for some time.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Iron Mongoose on 01 September 2017, 12:12:00
Either way, I think ilClan will be a chance to settle them.  What I wouldn't want to see is to leave them to hang, unresolved (in their way) as a perpetual boogyman.  Are they impovershed?  Was there a terrable colapse, and they're all gone?  Are they all mysteriously gone?  Are they super high tech, biding their time and plotting vengance?  Are the Adders actually Wolverines?

If we're to move on, better to consolodate things, and clean up.  What form that takes, the ilClan invading them or them invading the ilClan or them joining with the ilClan or becoming the ilClan or just being eaten by hyperspace monsters or even just all colectively slipping on the soap in the shower, I don't care.  Just so long as they don't become the Wolverines writ even larger, every lurking on the fringes but never given a final resolution.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Wrangler on 01 September 2017, 12:24:26
Either way, I think ilClan will be a chance to settle them.  What I wouldn't want to see is to leave them to hang, unresolved (in their way) as a perpetual boogyman.  Are they impovershed?  Was there a terrable colapse, and they're all gone?  Are they all mysteriously gone?  Are they super high tech, biding their time and plotting vengance?  Are the Adders actually Wolverines?

If we're to move on, better to consolodate things, and clean up.  What form that takes, the ilClan invading them or them invading the ilClan or them joining with the ilClan or becoming the ilClan or just being eaten by hyperspace monsters or even just all colectively slipping on the soap in the shower, I don't care.  Just so long as they don't become the Wolverines writ even larger, every lurking on the fringes but never given a final resolution.
Given how the Betrayal of Ideals went down, i think that's possibility.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 01 September 2017, 12:55:10
Either way, I think ilClan will be a chance to settle them.  What I wouldn't want to see is to leave them to hang, unresolved (in their way) as a perpetual boogyman.  Are they impovershed?  Was there a terrable colapse, and they're all gone?  Are they all mysteriously gone?  Are they super high tech, biding their time and plotting vengance?  Are the Adders actually Wolverines?

If we're to move on, better to consolodate things, and clean up.  What form that takes, the ilClan invading them or them invading the ilClan or them joining with the ilClan or becoming the ilClan or just being eaten by hyperspace monsters or even just all colectively slipping on the soap in the shower, I don't care.  Just so long as they don't become the Wolverines writ even larger, every lurking on the fringes but never given a final resolution.

I actually like keeping up the mystique of different factions.  Give us tidbits here and there, but don't reveal everything.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 01 September 2017, 13:04:26
Well, the Homeclans might get the White Walker/The Others.

Lost in space, mysterious, considered to be spooky fairy tales, but then ...
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 01 September 2017, 18:00:34
   I think I would be just as happy to never see ilclan released... I loved how Dark Age started, but as the story unfolded from 3132 to 3145+ it just got more and more silly and over the top for me. Magical Space Fortesses and Frozen Stone Resurrection was the last straw for me. 😂 while Battletech has always been true Space Opera, at the end there it reached "Telemundo Spanish Channel Soap Opera" levels of eye-rolling melodrama...
   I just can't see the ilclan story arc dragging Battletech back to the more gritty and realistic military drama it started out as, especially  since the Clans (for me at least) are themselves pretty over the top to begin with, drama-wise. Too often the Clanners are written as one act trick ponies, gimmicky caricatures of comic book villains. I tend to read all Clan dialog in TOS William Shatners voice... 😂  Playing in an Era where their whole "Dances With Wolves meets Macbeth"  behaviour is dominant makes the hair on my neck stand up...
   Please, CGL, take ALL the time you need.... 😉
You and me pal. I really hope this new "3rd Star League" and clan shenanigans stay far from the Periphery.

Honestly, me three.  I'm trying to not join the clucks from the Chicken Little Gallery, but honestly if the intended ilClan direction involves re-imagining the Inner Sphere as a Clan society that involves the removal of even one of the "core" five Great Houses, I'd frankly rather see story progress towards that end simply go into a derailed train wreck rather than take me to a Third Star League.

Game of Thrones in Space rather than Robot Jox: The Boardgame for me, please.   The Clan Homeworlds (presumably still) exist for visiting the "Clan only" stories.  Just one fan's preferences.  YMMV.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Maingunnery on 01 September 2017, 18:15:48


Honestly, me three.  I'm trying to not join the clucks from the Chicken Little Gallery, but honestly if the intended ilClan direction involves re-imagining the Inner Sphere as a Clan society that involves the removal of even one of the "core" five Great Houses, I'd frankly rather see story progress towards that end simply go into a derailed train wreck rather than take me to a Third Star League.

Game of Thrones in Space rather than Robot Jox: The Boardgame for me, please.   The Clan Homeworlds (presumably still) exist for visiting the "Clan only" stories.  Just one fan's preferences.  YMMV.
Just imagine it like this, something happens to Terra and the Clan Star League falls apart.
In the following chaos the descendants of the old houses try to re-establish power.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 01 September 2017, 18:26:04
Personally I intend to actually read IlClan before I denounce the setting.

I mean, I still might not like it, but there will be reasons.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Pat Payne on 01 September 2017, 18:34:36
Personally I intend to actually read IlClan before I denounce the setting.

I mean, I still might not like it, but there will be reasons.

Same here. I'm more of a Succession Wars person, but it'd at least be interesting to see the culmination of the story.

That, and at least it's a long-delayed RPG/TTG supplement that I'll be able to see BEFORE I'm 90 (*coughcoughGaryGygax'sOriginalCastleGreyhawkcoughcough* -- seriously - that one's been in Development Hell since literally before I was born and with legal issues that make HG look like choirboys ::) )
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 01 September 2017, 18:37:41
Same here. I'm more of a Succession Wars person, but it'd at least be interesting to see the culmination of the story.

That, and at least it's a long-delayed RPG/TTG supplement that I'll be able to see BEFORE I'm 90 (*coughcoughGaryGygax'sOriginalCastleGreyhawkcoughcough*)

And if we don't like our new clan overlords, that will just make the campaigns to tear them down all the sweeter.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: carmachu on 01 September 2017, 20:23:27
Well, the Homeclans might get the White Walker/The Others.

Lost in space, mysterious, considered to be spooky fairy tales, but then ...

Then you want 2050 clan invasion revisited?
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Gaiiten on 02 September 2017, 07:06:20
Then you want 2050 clan invasion revisited?

It has not to be a full-scale invasion, an invasion from the Inner Sphere / Third League firstly and then a steady escalation. A war being fought in deep space away from the Inner Sphere.

Slowly weakening the Third League who will be confronted then by increasing nationalism in the regions of the old Successor States and then more and more rebellions. Besides increasing tensions among the Third League Clans.

So a lot of internal conflicts and and very dangerous external conflict ... a good start for a new age of war.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 02 September 2017, 07:51:35
In terms of predictions, I have always thought the IlClan era might see all the I.S. Clans become one-mega Clan, the IlClan, with all the component parts inside (There are still internal Khans, who operate the Clans like states with the IlClan being a very strong federal-style of government).  I remember the Devs mentioning wanting to simply the factions down, and we see that happening with a number of factions.  Then they could have The IlClan in the Inner Sphere, with an IlClan in the Homeworlds.

Capellan Confederation + Canopus + Andurien (Dania Centrella-Liao being the heir to all 3)
Republic + Fed Suns (Mention of a Government in exile in TRO3150)
All the Clans (IlClan perhaps?)

My bet is that even if there is an IlClan, they don't get to hold onto Terra for the long hall.  Given Alaric Ward's cunning, maybe he decides landing on Terra and holding it briefly gives him the prestige to claim IlClan status, kind of like how he played games with Tharkard (only claiming a continent, just going in to kill or capture Archon Melissa).
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ChrystalNiNja88 on 02 September 2017, 10:15:13
It has not to be a full-scale invasion, an invasion from the Inner Sphere / Third League firstly and then a steady escalation. A war being fought in deep space away from the Inner Sphere.

Slowly weakening the Third League who will be confronted then by increasing nationalism in the regions of the old Successor States and then more and more rebellions. Besides increasing tensions among the Third League Clans.

So a lot of internal conflicts and and very dangerous external conflict ... a good start for a new age of war.

I'd be down with that. Nothing settles in a new League like a good ol' unification war  >:D. Also, the steady increase of successor state rebellions lets players root for their favorite House throwing off the League's shackles and open up some new fun campaign possibilities.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: SteveRestless on 02 September 2017, 13:38:08
I begin to think you're all trolling me, the way this thread has descended into the same stravag grasping at crazy theories that renders the wait more wearisome than anything else.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 02 September 2017, 13:54:26
I begin to think you're all trolling me, the way this thread has descended into the same stravag grasping at crazy theories that renders the wait more wearisome than anything else.
That's just called the internet.  You should be used to it by now.
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: ActionButler on 02 September 2017, 14:15:29
Locked pending review
Title: Re: IlClan Delayed for Reformat
Post by: Bedwyr on 02 September 2017, 15:43:09
At this point we're going to keep the thread lock. It has been such a source of bad blood that the mods regard this as a conversational well of poison. Frankly, we're tired of it.


"We're done here." - Cave Johnson