Using space stations as permanent jumpship pods?

[Korzon77]

Is there any reason this can't be done? The rules state that you can't use weapons and sensors and such, but from a mass view, there seems to be little reason to permanently mount a dropship on your jumpship since you're paying for things that will never be used.

I'm considering this for a series of long-range colonization ships in the 2600s, and it seems that would be the most economical way to move large numbers of people.

[Frabby]

As far as I'm aware, the space stations are also subject to the 100,000 ton limit per JumpShip hardpoint. For all intents and purposes, it is treated just like a DropShip.
If a station is bigger than 100,000 tons, ten it has to be disassembled into individual modules of not more than 100,000 tons for transportation. This was the case for the Dragoons' Hepaestus Station, for example.

[Fireangel]

Some time back, I designed the Jonahian Jump Barge; a 100kt dropship with a 1/2 thrust engine and a 90kt cargo capability, but fluffed as a 10kt dropper with massive K-F booms.

The thing is the ideal method of ferrying a fully functional space station that weighs in at 90kt or less across a jump and then deliver it to its duty station.

The rules for constructing space stations could be used to build "station modules" for colonization; a 90kt unit with massive passenger accommodations and cargo capacity, along with a number of small craft bays, the mission profile would be:

1) Jumpship arrives with barge + module
2) barge transports module to planetary orbit
3) barge detaches, and returns to jumpship
4) station in orbit begins transporting the colony down to the surface using its small craft and deploying weather/communication sattelites
5) any product from the surface (such as mining product) is transported to the station
6) after a pre-determined period of time, a jumpship with a barge and a second colony module arrives
7) barge brings the new module to planetary orbit and drops it off
8 ) barge picks up the old module, loaded with "export" and any personnel leaving the world, and returns to the jumpship
9) new colony module continues the colonization process
10) the old colony module is unloaded, checked over/refurbished, and reloaded to continue the colonization process.

[cray]

The canonical jump-transportable space stations are much more expensive than normal because of their KF boom, which is also a driving force in the cost multipliers of DropShips.

[pheonixstorm]

the cost calculations for dropships are rubbish though.. Add any piece of expensive hardware and the cost of your DS goes beyond warship range. Mobile HPG doesn't weigh a lot but slap it on a DS and that extra 1 billion becomes 30 billion.

[Maingunnery]

the cost calculations for dropships are rubbish though.. Add any piece of expensive hardware and the cost of your DS goes beyond warship range. Mobile HPG doesn't weigh a lot but slap it on a DS and that extra 1 billion becomes 30 billion.

Yes, cost modifiers are a very abstract way to handle the costs general features, in some ways too abstract.

[Korzon77]

I'll be honest-- for aerospace, I pretty much ignore the costs. They really make no sense. 

[idea weenie]

Use a Repair Bay to contain a space station, and jump with that.  A Space Station can be 95% cargo by mass, and a Repair Bay can jump with up to 1 Space station or 2 Dropships held inside.

It will take much longer to unload from the Space station since you have to use cargo handling operations, but if you use a modified Monolith (with a 450 kton Repair Bay), you can jump a space station containing up to 405 ktons of cargo.

The problem with this idea is you need compact core vessels to mount the Repair Bay, and you will need extra Dropships to transfer cargo from the space station to the planet.  Technically, the space station could transit from the zenith/nadir jump zone at .01G (station-keeping is .1G, so this is actually less stress on the hull), only taking 10* as long as the dropships transiting at 1 G.  Attaching Dropship Docking collars to the Space Station means cargo can be loaded in shirt-sleeve environment instead of vacuum operations.

That would be a fun set of math, comparing if it is faster to ship and assemble a space station at the destination, or build it at the source planet then have it transit to the destination using its station-keeping drive.

What I wish we could do for Dropships is list certain items as internal vs external.  An item listed as internal only needs the Warship cost modifier, while external gets the Dropship cost modifier.  However, anything that is listed as internal and takes Aerospace level damage is immediately destroyed.  So a merchant might try to make internal structure as internal only, but the Dropship gets an asteroid collision.  The collision is strong enough to do damage past the armor, and the internal structure takes damage.  This causes all the internal structure in the area to be effectively lost, and a major investigation into the manufacturing company is launched.  An HPG would be listed as internal only, since the player does not expect to be using it during combat or during atmospheric entry.  This cuts the cost for the HPG on the Dropship by a large amount.  Weaponry and armor would obviously need the external cost multiplier, ditto for the engine.

[VhenRa]

I believe the concept here is a 100 KT Station, jump transportable with KF Boom, used to carry cargo docked to a Jumpship essentially as a Behemoth without the big bulky 1/2 engine. As a way to cram as much cargo as possible into a single collar. So while, yes, its more expensive then a normal station.... its still less expensive then such a large dropship.. and doesn't waste tonnage on a big engine.

Edit: Its a 2/3 engine... I feel dumb. But even more tonnage saved per collar. Score.

[Korzon77]

Pretty much, and you can also put a grav deck on it. Granted that's slight rules abuse, but I don't see the problem-- two contrarotating grav decks would eliminate most of the issues with the jump ship.

[RogueK]

I'd prefer 50000 tons to ensure it is on a single collar.

And if you want REAL abuse I have an excel file with a design such a station equipped with a dropshuttle bay as the rules are vague on specific workings. In theory that'll let your station carry 2 dropships of up to 5000 tons and itself on a single collar.

I admit the main reason I have never dared to ask about specific rules clarification is that I'm sure that if I ever bring it up to TPTB they'd clarify that loophole out of existance immediately

[idea weenie]

I'd prefer 50000 tons to ensure it is on a single collar.

???

A Jumpship/Warship can only mount 1 Dropship Docking collar per 50,000 tons, but each collar can handle up to 100,000 tons.

[Fireangel]

There really is no reason (besides the rules, duh) why a dropship could not be built with a station-keeping drive instead of a full-on 1/2 transit drive. In fact, the Battlespace ruleset allowed it.

[sillybrit]

A Jumpship/Warship can only mount 1 Dropship Docking collar per 50,000 tons, but each collar can handle up to 100,000 tons.

Using the optional quirks rules, large DropShips require 2 collars. The 100kt Behemoth originally required 2 collars and the same size Castrum from XTRO Rep I has the 2 collar quirk.

[Archangel]

There really is no reason (besides the rules, duh) why a dropship could not be built with a station-keeping drive instead of a full-on 1/2 transit drive. In fact, the Battlespace ruleset allowed it.

Would it, or could it, still be called a Dropship then?   ^-^

[Fireangel]

Would it, or could it, still be called a Dropship then?   ^-^

Why shouldn't it? The fact that it would take longer to transit in does not take away from the fact that it is a ship capable of transiting under its own power, dock with a jumpship, jump with said jumpship, then "drop" and transit in-system under its own power.

If we are talking game terminology, we might be facing the same issue that has a completely unarmed, unarmored mobile shipyard with a compact K-F core being called a "warship".

[Frabby]

Using the optional quirks rules, large DropShips require 2 collars. The 100kt Behemoth originally required 2 collars and the same size Castrum from XTRO Rep I has the 2 collar quirk.

This quirk was spun out of a fluff description iirc that said the Behemoth is so big that it blocks out an adjacent hardpoint on JumpShips. It doesn't technically need two, and can be carried on JumpShips with only one hardpoint. The quirk is optional in any case, so you can absolutely haul one DropShip of up to 100,000 tons per hardpoint.

BattleSpace rules had a rule (since dropped) that said it applies to all DropShips of 60,000 tons or more.

[cray]

the cost calculations for dropships are rubbish though.. Add any piece of expensive hardware and the cost of your DS goes beyond warship range. Mobile HPG doesn't weigh a lot but slap it on a DS and that extra 1 billion becomes 30 billion.

Other than HPGs, the new "support equipment" in StratOps helps separate DropShip and WarShip costs

[Hellraiser]

Does that mean a Medium Laser isn't 28x as expensive on a DS v/s a Mech/ASF?

[Fireangel]

Does that mean a Medium Laser isn't 28x as expensive on a DS v/s a Mech/ASF?

You have to remember that the over-the-counter plain-vanilla ML costs the same: the mounting equipment, linkages, wiring, targeting module and matching paint job increase the price to x28 when building the ship.

Plus you can get discount coupons and take advantage of BOGO offers...  :D

[sillybrit]

It gets fruitier when you consider a 200t small craft and a 200t DropShip. Crew quarters suddenly become more expensive on the DropShip because there happens to be a KF boom stuck on the hull's butt.

[idea weenie]

It gets fruitier when you consider a 200t small craft and a 200t DropShip. Crew quarters suddenly become more expensive on the DropShip because there happens to be a KF boom stuck on the hull's butt.

Well, the 200 ton Small Craft can ride inside the mounting craft when it jumps, while a Dropship has to have external protection.  If the math is wrong on the Dropship's protective KF setup, Bad Things Happen.