Author Topic: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors  (Read 34117 times)

Giovanni Blasini

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Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« on: 10 March 2015, 02:02:31 »
So, one tidbit from Handbook: Major Periphery States was the Errant MechWarrior, lone hired guns defending minor Periphery worlds that their parent nations, if they have them, can't spare the resources to protect.  This, of course, conjures the image of the lone Old West gunfighter defending a town from a pack of desperados.

With that said, though, it's one thing to pack a pair of old Colt 1860 revolvers and keep 'em in powder and bullets.  It's another thing entirely to keep a BattleMech running in Nowhere, Middle Of.

So, how do these modern-day hired guns get by?  What kind of 'Mechs are best suited for the job, and how much could your average world do to keep them operating?
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #1 on: 10 March 2015, 02:21:36 »
To kick things off, there's the example of Uchi Tikidomo, a retired DCMS MechWarrior, who met the Ghost Bears in his Archer when they landed on Porthos, challenging them for control of the world.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #2 on: 10 March 2015, 09:08:54 »
Minor quibble. I believe Uchi was a woman?

My guess is she was capable of keeping her ’Mech in working order. Seeing as 3049 was the tail end of the Succession War-era—at least for a retired warrior such as herself—I wouldn't be all that surprised if Uchi had some technical skills in addition to her fighting ones.

If she didn't fire off LRMs all the time, what could she really need to keep her ’Mech "ready?" A little actuator lubricant here, a little cockpit window washer there, etc. 
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #3 on: 10 March 2015, 09:19:13 »
The best type of mech for this role would be a energy boat between 50 and 70 tons, and include jump jets. I would also try to come with some spare parts, and work it in the contract for spare part shipments to keep the mech up. I would pick the grasshopper H. It's got jump jets, good armor, and a decent punch.

I would also make sure to have a tech or at least have the skill to fix my own mech.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #4 on: 10 March 2015, 10:10:02 »
Minor quibble. I believe Uchi was a woman?

My guess is she was capable of keeping her ’Mech in working order. Seeing as 3049 was the tail end of the Succession War-era—at least for a retired warrior such as herself—I wouldn't be all that surprised if Uchi had some technical skills in addition to her fighting ones.

If she didn't fire off LRMs all the time, what could she really need to keep her ’Mech "ready?" A little actuator lubricant here, a little cockpit window washer there, etc.

I haven't seen a physical copy of Invading Clans in some time, and lack the PDF, so it's possible Uchi was female.  My source was Sarna, which used male pronouns:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Invasion_corridor_-_Clan_Ghost_Bear#Porthos_.28September_3049.29

And that certainly is part of the question: if you're an errant, do you patrol?  Just leave the 'Mech parked?  What kind of maintenance do you need?  How do you operate in general?
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Vehrec

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #5 on: 10 March 2015, 10:15:35 »
The Knight Errant was really a myth of chivalrous literature even in the middle ages. 

That said, if you're an expert mechwarrior, come to defend our lands, we will offer you technical support, land to draw income from, a rank of General in our planetary militia, and all the praise our media can provide.  With the connections our government can offer, you'll be able to secure replacement parts even out in the Periphery.  Or you can side with the righteous rebels, who offer you a chance to throw off the chains of injustice and forge a new more equal society where the strong will not oppress the weak.  They can't offer you much money or influence, but they can offer skilled and worthy friends to help you in your cause.

The Errants also offer another interpretation of Battlemech durability-that with time and care, even a heavily damaged machine can be made right, that Mechs are perhaps not as fragile as the rules sometimes lead us to believe, and that most battles end by mutual consent when one side, clearly whipped, leaves the field.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #6 on: 10 March 2015, 10:17:42 »
The best type of mech for this role would be a energy boat between 50 and 70 tons, and include jump jets. I would also try to come with some spare parts, and work it in the contract for spare part shipments to keep the mech up. I would pick the grasshopper H. It's got jump jets, good armor, and a decent punch.

I would also make sure to have a tech or at least have the skill to fix my own mech.

I thought about energy weapons, too, but then I got to wondering whether they're as optimal as we'd think: lasers and PPCs are fairly high-tech, and while they leave you independent of ammunition and reduce your logistical train on the short term, do their parts requirements outweigh the ammo requirements over the long term?

Size-wise, I think you may be on to something: an errant is gong to be stuck facing multiple opponents alone, which means you either need the maneuverability to be able to isolate your opponents when possible while still having the firepower and armor to oppose them.  A solid heavy or medium may be able to do the job, though I may prefer a GHR-5N for that role than a 5H.
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snewsom2997

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #7 on: 10 March 2015, 10:46:27 »
I would figure one of the 55 Ton designs, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine. Most would have been manufactured in the periphery at one time or another, maybe even currently, so there would be some supplies

LRM's, SRM's and AC ammo are pretty easy to come by, and even manufacture in the periphery. If you want something less ammo dependent, there are versions of the 55 toners that swap the AC for Large Lasers or PPCs.

The one thing you may not be able to do is keep your mech in one standard configuration, you might have to swap an AC for a PPC or Large Laser, or a LRM with SRM rack or vice versa, or with medium lasers or Heat Sinks, all depending on salvage and supplies.

275 Engines are fairly common, so are the 3 ton Gyro that goes with it.

However after the Clan Invasion, the days of mechwarriors being cross trained as techs I think were over, as were the days of the tech able to scrounge together enough parts make a mech and to become mechwarriors.
« Last Edit: 10 March 2015, 14:01:16 by snewsom2997 »

DavyJones

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #8 on: 10 March 2015, 12:42:14 »
 A lone Gunslinger in the middle of nowhere there is only 1 thing he can depend on his Quickdraw   O0

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #9 on: 10 March 2015, 14:38:53 »
You might also want to re-think Jump Jets.

Sure jump jets are great for mobility, but jumping 55 tons through the air puts a lot of stress on those actuator joints. If you're the sole operator AND tech, the additional maintenance may not be worth the headache or cost.

Just something to think about...
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #10 on: 10 March 2015, 17:12:53 »
Better to have them and not use them than not have them when you need them.  That is especially true if one is on patrol and suddenly finds oneself facing a full company of pirate raiders by oneself.  Speed alone might not be enough to get one out of a tight spot.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #11 on: 10 March 2015, 18:35:40 »
unless put to heavy use, battlemechs don't seem to need tons of maintenance.. and if a world can arrange to hire a 'knight errant' odds are they can arrange to have a tech hired to support them, and obtain supplies of the most important expendables (coolant, lubricants, etc.) on a regualr enough basis to support those they hired.

honestly the main thing i'd question is the idea of a single mech for a whole world.. i would assume that this would mainly be the case where the world is lightly populated, and only really boasts one major city (near the spaceport). and i would assume those worlds have some local militia with tanks (even if only support vee ones) and other vehicles to support the mech.

however i'd imagine that for most worlds they'd try to hire at least a lance. and for bigger worlds a company would probably be desired, if not larger. the bigger the world, the more places needing defending, so the more mechs they'd want.
« Last Edit: 10 March 2015, 18:37:36 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #12 on: 10 March 2015, 20:08:46 »
Agreed Jump Jets are like condoms and guns, better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them. ;D

For a medium something like the Cronus 3M or  Wolverine 6M are nice contenders.

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #13 on: 10 March 2015, 20:39:02 »
Also have to wonder how widespread sales of the Marshall are.

On the flipside, there's a bandit who gets written up in a Tech Readout and, IIRC, Total Warfare, whose a solo operator in an UrbanMech, which probably makes for one of the slowest crime sprees ever, but who probably has a lot of the same operational constraints.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #14 on: 11 March 2015, 00:11:49 »
One thing to remember is that as staff changed the amount of maintenance they require has quite literally changed.  In the beginning they were modeled on armor vehicles or WW2 fighters.  Where maintenance is required regularly but not nearly as intensively as a modern fighter.  Looking at write-ups from some of the very old materials mechwarriors handled at least some of the low-level PM stuff and often you'd have just one team of a couple 'techs' in an entire company.  Which is more in line with armored vehicles where quite a bit of the maintenance is done by the crew and specialists only come in on fairly major repairs.  And the original 'ideal' of one warrior and one tech per 'Mech is from WW2 fighters where often a unit would have a single pool of maintenance personnel but each one would be personally responsible for the minor PM and paperwork on a single aircraft. 
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #15 on: 11 March 2015, 09:01:03 »
You might also want to re-think Jump Jets.

Sure jump jets are great for mobility, but jumping 55 tons through the air puts a lot of stress on those actuator joints. If you're the sole operator AND tech, the additional maintenance may not be worth the headache or cost.

Just something to think about...
Not to mention they're another sort of part that can fail that you have to know how to fix and be able to acquire supplies of.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #16 on: 11 March 2015, 16:14:43 »
I have always been intrigued by the idea of a knight errant warrior on the periphery. I see this as a great subset of Battletech that never got enough credit. I would love to see more on this.

As far as the mech goes, I would also say a medium build mech with jump capabilities. You also have mechs that are fluffed as being easy to maintain like the Crab.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #17 on: 11 March 2015, 16:20:27 »
So, one tidbit from Handbook: Major Periphery States was the Errant MechWarrior, lone hired guns defending minor Periphery worlds that their parent nations, if they have them, can't spare the resources to protect.  This, of course, conjures the image of the lone Old West gunfighter defending a town from a pack of desperados.

Where is this tidbit?

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #18 on: 11 March 2015, 16:23:08 »
So, how do these modern-day hired guns get by?  What kind of 'Mechs are best suited for the job, and how much could your average world do to keep them operating?

The ideal Periphery 'Mech will have:

Energy weapons. Take a look at the Force Operations beta rules, which consolidate the operating costs of 'Mechs and slap them in the face of players. A ton of LRM ammo is about three times the annual salary of a MechWarrior, and SRMs aren't far behind.

Common parts. 2- and 3-ton gyroscopes, 120-, 275-, 300-rated engines, major brand name weapons: things easy to find in the Periphery.

Everyone wants heavy armor, but put some thought into finding a 'Mech with lots of armor. Armor is cheaper to repair and easier to find than gyroscopes and new weapons.

At higher tech levels: CASE.

What can the planets provide? Depends on the place, but often not much if they're independent Periphery worlds, which tend to have tech scores (per USILR codes) of about D to F, while 'Mechs generally need C or better. They can probably provide lots of manpower, housing, and local scrip, but not much for the 'Mech and MechWarrior. Maybe armor and simple ammo types.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #19 on: 11 March 2015, 16:38:17 »
The ideal Periphery 'Mech will have:

Energy weapons. Take a look at the Force Operations beta rules, which consolidate the operating costs of 'Mechs and slap them in the face of players. A ton of LRM ammo is about three times the annual salary of a MechWarrior, and SRMs aren't far behind.

Common parts. 2- and 3-ton gyroscopes, 120-, 275-, 300-rated engines, major brand name weapons: things easy to find in the Periphery.

Everyone wants heavy armor, but put some thought into finding a 'Mech with lots of armor. Armor is cheaper to repair and easier to find than gyroscopes and new weapons.

At higher tech levels: CASE.

What can the planets provide? Depends on the place, but often not much if they're independent Periphery worlds, which tend to have tech scores (per USILR codes) of about D to F, while 'Mechs generally need C or better. They can probably provide lots of manpower, housing, and local scrip, but not much for the 'Mech and MechWarrior. Maybe armor and simple ammo types.
So an Ostsol, Marauder-3D, or Chameleon would be about as close to the ideal as you can get?
« Last Edit: 11 March 2015, 16:42:07 by Arkansas Warrior »
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #20 on: 11 March 2015, 17:44:45 »
Where is this tidbit?

Handbook: Major Periphery States, page 57.  Under Summits and Spies, evidently.  The copy of HB:MPS I can currently find consists of the draft Word docs, and I don't know where my "print" PDF is at the moment, but I found it in the draft files as well.

So an Ostsol, Marauder-3D, or Chameleon would be about as close to the ideal as you can get?

Chameleon works fine, until you face off against three or four Jenners, and have to run from the Citadel.  ;D

Wouldn't the Marauder be a bit light on armor for its size?
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #21 on: 11 March 2015, 20:15:44 »
He may be a lone mech pilot but its rare that any MechWarrior would operate totally alone. Techs, mission operators... There are simply too many needs to keep operating in the field for one person to manage all alone without some form of local support or bringing your own. What might that look like?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wayland_Mobile_Base

I had been sitting here thinking about updating the design. Maybe Cappellan like with stealth armor. It just occurred to me that that sort of vehicle would be ideal support for a small time operator to hire or own for repairs and supply.
« Last Edit: 11 March 2015, 20:18:10 by Lone Star »

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #22 on: 11 March 2015, 23:26:32 »
The ideal Periphery 'Mech will have:

Energy weapons. Take a look at the Force Operations beta rules, which consolidate the operating costs of 'Mechs and slap them in the face of players. A ton of LRM ammo is about three times the annual salary of a MechWarrior, and SRMs aren't far behind.

Common parts. 2- and 3-ton gyroscopes, 120-, 275-, 300-rated engines, major brand name weapons: things easy to find in the Periphery.

Everyone wants heavy armor, but put some thought into finding a 'Mech with lots of armor. Armor is cheaper to repair and easier to find than gyroscopes and new weapons.

At higher tech levels: CASE.

What can the planets provide? Depends on the place, but often not much if they're independent Periphery worlds, which tend to have tech scores (per USILR codes) of about D to F, while 'Mechs generally need C or better. They can probably provide lots of manpower, housing, and local scrip, but not much for the 'Mech and MechWarrior. Maybe armor and simple ammo types.
There's no escaping the fact that those same rules require about .1% of a Mech's value in Spare Parts and other maintainance supplies per...month?  I don't have them open right now and I'm about to go hit the sack, but any time I hear 'lone mechwarrior opperating far from base of supply' what I actually hear is 'fluff and rules are getting into a fight again'.  Per the rules, basing your Mech for months or years out of primitive conditions is asking for breakdowns and problems-but per fluff, such things aren't unheard of, or even terribly remarked upon except when the mech in question is found wrapped in a scafold of bamboo platforms with only a tarp for a roof.

I think you're underestimating what even an independent world can provide if you give them a chance-while they might not be able to produce locally what you need, anywhere with decent merchant contacts can get you the supplies you need if you wait around for a while.  A while might be a couple of years, but it's the Periphery, and things move slower out there without HPGs or the numbers of Jumpships you get in the Sphere.  Still, a few tons of ammo or some armor aren't unreasonable, and scratch-building autocannon ammo or dumbfire SRM rounds might be a taxing project, but it wouldn't be impossible.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #23 on: 11 March 2015, 23:32:07 »
Quote
Chameleon works fine, until you face off against three or four Jenners, and have to run from the Citadel.
I wouldn't mind, though I'd probably mod it by trading in the machine guns and ammo for heat sinks.

Quote
So an Ostsol, Marauder-3D, or Chameleon would be about as close to the ideal as you can get?
Other designs to consider would be the Crab, the Lancelot, and at the heavy end, the Black Knight.

Lone Star

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #24 on: 11 March 2015, 23:59:09 »
If you are looking for a specific mech recommendation I would suggest the Cronus for a lone merc mech particularly based on the lore.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cronus

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #25 on: 12 March 2015, 08:29:57 »

Wouldn't the Marauder be a bit light on armor for its size?
Probably, but it has the flashbulb armament, 300-rated engine, and 3 ton gyro cray mentioned.  Not a lot of 75 tonners come as close to meeting all his points.  Black Knight and Flashman (4/6 variants,, at least) are a couple of others that I probably should've thought of though.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #26 on: 12 March 2015, 14:55:04 »
  If you are using 'Mech quirks my choice would be the Crab. 50 tons, good speed, energy loadout, and Easy to Maintain quirk.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #27 on: 12 March 2015, 17:44:42 »
Just remember that chances are whilst you are the only MechWarrior on the planet (At least with a working 'Mech) you'll be far from it's only defender. At the very least the planet will have infantry, and HTP: Tortuga suggests that ANY planet is capable of manufacturing vehicles

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #28 on: 12 March 2015, 17:53:14 »
So, Lots of armor, energy weapons, no jump jets and a medium sized mech since repairs seem to go up exponentially with weight.  So what you really want is an old PHX-K?

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #29 on: 12 March 2015, 18:46:03 »
Or the old Wolverine-K variant or the Centurion-AL with something to replace the LRMs or a Swayback.

Also I think for a lot of people their image of the Inner Sphere has changed and along with it their expectation for the support required by battlemechs.  As of 3025 the Inner Sphere is not the First World.  The Inner Sphere in 3025 is post-colonial Africa of the 60s or 70s.  There are a few centers of industry that can build modern technology and war machines.  But most of the rest of the sphere are 3rd world crapholes that barely manage to make ends meet constantly wracked by warlords and revolutions. 

To use an analogy.  Most of the Inner Sphere are those drugged-up fighters in technicals led by madmen trying to claw out their own petty kingdom.  And the mechwarriors are the western mercenaries with modern french hardware that come in on one side or the other and devastate everything locally produced in the name of their paymaster until they come up against another group of well-equipped mercenaries and it turns into a serious fight.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #30 on: 12 March 2015, 20:21:00 »
Could a primitive mech find maintenance on a D-F world where a modern mech would have trouble?

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #31 on: 12 March 2015, 20:34:43 »
Could a primitive mech find maintenance on a D-F world where a modern mech would have trouble?
Primitive mechs are built with 22nd century technology instead of 25th century technology.  So if the world can manage 21st or 22nd century technology at all I'd rule it could find maintenance though it's a personal ruling rather than looking it up in the rules.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #32 on: 12 March 2015, 21:31:43 »
I would also think that a Vulcan might be a mech to have.  I mean if you might be that lone gunman, you might be facing off against forces of Vees and Infantry only.  Also from what i remember of the 1st edition of Mechwarrior and Mercenary books, repairs on an AC were much lower than repairs on a PPC or Large Laser.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #33 on: 13 March 2015, 20:37:45 »
I would also think that a Vulcan might be a mech to have.  I mean if you might be that lone gunman, you might be facing off against forces of Vees and Infantry only.  Also from what i remember of the 1st edition of Mechwarrior and Mercenary books, repairs on an AC were much lower than repairs on a PPC or Large Laser.

On the other hand, it uses cash for ammo faster than an energy weapon needs repairs.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #34 on: 13 March 2015, 23:13:42 »
So, how do these modern-day hired guns get by?

A bigger question might be how errant mechs get created in the first place.  Armies are usually loathe to allow a major piece of military equipment to walk off (or be secreted out of) a base, nevertheless launched offworld and jumped into the unknown Periphery.  And it's hard to see how a mechwarrior who owns his ride and is rich enough to afford interstellar shipping to a very out-of-the-way world would choose to spend his riches on the errant lifestyle in retirement.  Even if seeking solace from PTSD, setting oneself up to take on annual bandit raids singlehandedly seems like a bad way to deal with the psychological scars of warfare. 

I think it's more likely that errants are forced into that lifestyle rather than choosing it.  Mechwarriors who are left behind on a world due to retreat or accident and with no other way to make a living seems like a more probable source of errants.  But even this will be a rare event.

So aside from a very few eccentric and rich and a few very desperate mechwarriors, it's hard to see how errants come to exist in the first place.

But these are problems throughout the btech universe.  It's also hard to explain many mercenary, family, and gladiatorial mechs.  So handwaving the origins questions away and going with the romance of the errant mechwarrior for a moment...

I'd assume that without the backing of a military logistical train, that an errant mech will run out of usable ammo in a matter of years.  Even if the errant mechwarrior brings a large store of ammunition with him, high-grade explosives tend to degrade with time and his ammo will become dangerous to handle or turn into dummy rounds (or both).  There are no rules for this, but unless chemistry works differently in the btech universe, it's unavoidable.  This may also be true for other consumables like coolants and lubricants, depending on their composition.

The exception to this would be if the local militia uses some of the same heavy weapons and equipment on their combat vehicles, field guns, or emplacements.  If the militia has vehicles, autocannons, missile racks, and heat sinks, then the errant may be able to leverage their supply of lubricants, ammo, coolants, etc.

If the militia doesn't have the same heavy weapons, then it may also be possible to modify the errant mech to use what the militia does field.  Specifically trading RLs (maybe MRMs) for LRMs and SRMs and maybe rifles for autocannons.  Hopefully there's enough heavy machinery requiring the right lubricants regardless, but the absence of heat sinks on-world and a source of their coolants might pose a limiting problem.

Even if they can leverage militia ammo and consumables (or industrial consumables), I'd also assume that errant mechs can't get by for very long before suffering the kind of permanent damage that showed up in the TO&Es in the old Succession Wars-era scenario packs.  Things like a non-functional heat sink, a stuck actuator, sensor impairment, an improperly aiming weapon, and structural failure that reduces armor capacity (even when repaired) in a particular section of the mech.  Even if the errant mech sees no combat, it will be a matter of years before certain components to wear out from fatigue or the environment.  Seals will fail, optics will go out realignment, electronics will short out, fasteners will oxidize, reactor structures will suffer neutron bombardment, etc.  When they do, some malfunctions may be resolved with jury-rigging but others will be irreparable without replacement components and the right tools to install them.

So to sum up, to realistically portray an errant mech, I'd say it has to be able to tap into militia supplies or at least supplies for local heavy machinery.  An errant will not last long protecting an Amish village.  An errant mech may also have some modifications to accommodate the weaponry and ammo that is available locally.  And an errant mech is probably also suffering from one or more permanently malfunctioning components.

At least, that's what I would do if I was GMing a campaign with an errant.  Anything less is either a newbie errant or unrealistic, IMO.

Quote
What kind of 'Mechs are best suited for the job, and how much could your average world do to keep them operating?

As others have already stated, assuming the errant has a choice, he'll want a relatively well armored and mobile generalist that relies mostly on energy weapons to reduce the ammo problem.  But realistically, an errant is not going to last long without some militia supply chain or semi-modern industrial base to leverage, and even then, the errant mech may require modifications and will probably suffer long-term malfunctions.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #35 on: 14 March 2015, 16:48:21 »
A long-ranged energy weapon, Large laser or PPC.  This is to allow the mechwarrior to engage at range without worrying about running out of ammo.  If PPC, I expect a brace of medium lasers to handle minimum range issues.

RL/10 - for when they need a massive punch vs armor.  The nice part is the reloads can likely be created from a Periphery world tech base.  Reloads might be fast too, allowing a Mech to shoot and scoot.

A supply of I-beams, or similar solid items that could be used for melee combat.  The mechwarrior knows where they are, the attackers don't.

Commercial armor?  24 pts of armor per ton, but taking criticals from anything hitting with 6+ pts of damage might be worth it.  So Mechs with less than max armor might replace some of it with Commercial, and boost their coverage.

For spare parts, everything will cost *10 or higher.  Remember the comment about creating Clan tech gear in Inner Sphere, and how it could only be made in a lab at an obscene price?  Same thing goes for regular Mech parts on a Periphery world, so the Mechwarrior will be well-connected with the local government, to ensure the spare parts keep flowing.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #36 on: 14 March 2015, 17:53:33 »
Yeah, even with the BAR rating, commercial armor would probably be a big boon to a lot of lights, or to 'Mechs like the Rifleman or JaegerMech.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #37 on: 14 March 2015, 21:15:03 »
The exception to this would be if the local militia uses some of the same heavy weapons and equipment on their combat vehicles, field guns, or emplacements.  If the militia has vehicles, autocannons, missile racks, and heat sinks, then the errant may be able to leverage their supply of lubricants, ammo, coolants, etc.

If the militia doesn't have the same heavy weapons, then it may also be possible to modify the errant mech to use what the militia does field.  Specifically trading RLs (maybe MRMs) for LRMs and SRMs and maybe rifles for autocannons.  Hopefully there's enough heavy machinery requiring the right lubricants regardless, but the absence of heat sinks on-world and a source of their coolants might pose a limiting problem.
I think you got some of this backwards. And despite what Herb says there's plenty of evidence that suggests that Infantry SRM's, LRM's and MRM's are the real deal

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #38 on: 14 March 2015, 23:35:02 »
It's all a result in changes in the setting slowly creeping in over years.  As a group of people try to make BattleMechs more akin to the late-generation fighters they want to think of them as rather than the armored fighting vehicles they were originally envisioned as.  Notice how maintenance requirements slowly but steadily went up, they emphasized need for parts as being special that were never made a fuss about before, assumed that mech units would need larger and larger teams of techs and astechs per mech.

Just ignore them and go back to the foundation of the setting, they want you to play the game their way but remember you can just ignore them and play it your way.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #39 on: 14 March 2015, 23:44:00 »
It's all a result in changes in the setting slowly creeping in over years.  As a group of people try to make BattleMechs more akin to the late-generation fighters they want to think of them as rather than the armored fighting vehicles they were originally envisioned as.  Notice how maintenance requirements slowly but steadily went up, they emphasized need for parts as being special that were never made a fuss about before, assumed that mech units would need larger and larger teams of techs and astechs per mech.

Just ignore them and go back to the foundation of the setting, they want you to play the game their way but remember you can just ignore them and play it your way.
I don't know that it's so much a sinister plot to impose a specific vision as it is the gradual move away from "beer & pretzels" to a more highly detailed and realistic setting.  It makes perfect sense that a fusion-powered walking war machine from centuries in the future would be more technologically advanced and complicated than anything we have today.  Battlemechs should be fantastically more complicated than armored vehicles or modern combat aircraft.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #40 on: 15 March 2015, 00:42:10 »
I think you got some of this backwards. And despite what Herb says there's plenty of evidence that suggests that Infantry SRM's, LRM's and MRM's are the real deal

I didn't mention infantry missiles one way or the other.  But since you bring it up, I'd probably say that infantry missiles can be fired from mech/vehicle launchers.  But infantry missile launchers can't substitute for mech/vehicle missile launchers.

FWIW...

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"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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blackjack

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #41 on: 15 March 2015, 00:43:16 »
What time frame?? Good stand alones Thunderbolt 5SE /9SE. Phoenix Hawks, wolverine 6m,  grasshopper 5n :o) Many more! I would go with a Griffin 6S or Shadowhawk 3K
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #42 on: 15 March 2015, 01:07:26 »
I didn't mention infantry missiles one way or the other.  But since you bring it up, I'd probably say that infantry missiles can be fired from mech/vehicle launchers.  But infantry missile launchers can't substitute for mech/vehicle missile launchers.

FWIW...
MW3 explicitly stated that infantry SRMs all full size ones, and the stats for SRMs, LRMs and MRMs all line up

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #43 on: 15 March 2015, 05:39:48 »
Minor quibble. I believe Uchi was a woman?

'Uchi' is a male name as far as I understand. Invading Clans indeed used male pronouns.

You might be thinking of Sarah 'Cat' Kattrin on Twilight (Jade Falcon Sourcebook).

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #44 on: 15 March 2015, 18:34:48 »
I didn't mention infantry missiles one way or the other.  But since you bring it up, I'd probably say that infantry missiles can be fired from mech/vehicle launchers.  But infantry missile launchers can't substitute for mech/vehicle missile launchers.

I'd be happy with infantry fired munitions getting a shorter range than Mech mounted munitions.

I.e. Ranges for firing SRMs from various platforms:
Infantry: 2/4/6
BattleArmor: 2/4/7
ProtoMech: 3/5/8
BattleMech: 3/6/9

The launchers get bigger, so the missiles get more range (from better firing support).  So a Mech could mount infantry sized SRM launchers, but they also get infantry SRM ranges.  Similarly, since infantry SRMs are exposed, this means the autoloaders are exposed, so any hits to that location disable the infantry weapons on that area (no critical roll needed).

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #45 on: 16 March 2015, 11:21:15 »
I don't know that it's so much a sinister plot to impose a specific vision as it is the gradual move away from "beer & pretzels" to a more highly detailed and realistic setting.  It makes perfect sense that a fusion-powered walking war machine from centuries in the future would be more technologically advanced and complicated than anything we have today.  Battlemechs should be fantastically more complicated than armored vehicles or modern combat aircraft.

On the other hand, Lostech.  Why can't Battlemechs self-repair to a certain extent, making them less inert pieces of metal and more blurring the line between life and technology?  Buster Machines in DieBuster are certainly in this category of lost technology, replicateable only through tremendous effort, and then sometimes failing to 'awaken' their true power.  Think of that as a road not taken, a way to have more Mechs Errant, and fewer questions about the economics of the setting if the Battlemech is well and truly disconnected from the economy of those who use it.

Fewer new designs, TROs, and models though.
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blackjack

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #46 on: 16 March 2015, 22:17:53 »
One of the Keith brothers actually had an article in an old mag (far & away maybe) that Spoke about nano bot repair systems.  They would repair damaged circuits etc.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #47 on: 17 March 2015, 02:18:57 »
I don't know that it's so much a sinister plot to impose a specific vision as it is the gradual move away from "beer & pretzels" to a more highly detailed and realistic setting.  It makes perfect sense that a fusion-powered walking war machine from centuries in the future would be more technologically advanced and complicated than anything we have today.  Battlemechs should be fantastically more complicated than armored vehicles or modern combat aircraft.
It doesn't require any plot at all just human nature.  You get a few people high up in a team who think of the project a certain way.  And they'll favor others who do the same, and before too long all that's left are people who think like them because others left.  And that's what happened with BattleTech in my opinion, a group of like-minded people populated the team with other people like them.  And in the process began changing the setting to meet their own vision rather than one closer to its origin.

I look at what Battlemechs actually do and what they're supposed to be modeled on and I don't think current trends are in the right direction.  I prefer to ignore a lot of the newer rules on maintenance and support and go back to older rules or where those didn't exist base them on armored vehicle logistics rather the fighter squadrons used by the current PTB.  So while designing the major components and producing them may be very complicated and very hard at the assembly/repair level it's not nearly that difficult.  Designing and manufacturing a modern engine for a large vehicle is difficult and requires lots of people and hardware.  But nearly any backwater industrial/agricultural garage can rebuild it, install it, or modify it.  And I see mechs the same way, I don't see the practical end of their use and maintenance as being any more complicated than keeping a modern AFV or piece of heavy industrial equipment running.
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SCC

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #48 on: 17 March 2015, 03:50:40 »
A 'Mech suffering serious problems because it's not maintained properly is rather at odds with the universe fluff

RunandFindOut

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #49 on: 17 March 2015, 07:38:13 »
A 'Mech suffering serious problems because it's not maintained properly is rather at odds with the universe fluff
Indeed they have many examples of the things getting by on impossibly low levels of maintenance going by current rules.  Being left stored sometimes for centuries with no maintenance and still be in working order.  Being repairable by local techs who aren't genius highly educated specimens and more in common with the local industrial equipment supplier. etc.

But it doesn't really matter because they see the setting in a certain way and are determined to make it match that vision by adjusting the rules and changing the newer fluff.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #50 on: 17 March 2015, 08:25:52 »
It doesn't require any plot at all just human nature.  You get a few people high up in a team who think of the project a certain way.  And they'll favor others who do the same, and before too long all that's left are people who think like them because others left.  And that's what happened with BattleTech in my opinion, a group of like-minded people populated the team with other people like them.  And in the process began changing the setting to meet their own vision rather than one closer to its origin.

I look at what Battlemechs actually do and what they're supposed to be modeled on and I don't think current trends are in the right direction.  I prefer to ignore a lot of the newer rules on maintenance and support and go back to older rules or where those didn't exist base them on armored vehicle logistics rather the fighter squadrons used by the current PTB.  So while designing the major components and producing them may be very complicated and very hard at the assembly/repair level it's not nearly that difficult.  Designing and manufacturing a modern engine for a large vehicle is difficult and requires lots of people and hardware.  But nearly any backwater industrial/agricultural garage can rebuild it, install it, or modify it.  And I see mechs the same way, I don't see the practical end of their use and maintenance as being any more complicated than keeping a modern AFV or piece of heavy industrial equipment running.
Don't you think the people running the universe know what they're supposed to be modeled on?  I mean, since they're the ones coming up with the ideas in the first place and all...
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #51 on: 17 March 2015, 09:40:20 »
Don't you think the people running the universe know what they're supposed to be modeled on?  I mean, since they're the ones coming up with the ideas in the first place and all...
I think that enough has changed since the earlier days of FASA and enough people involved have changed that you've got developers with a somewhat different view of the setting than was originally intended.  And if you don't agree with where the newer ideas are going why should you care what the people doing them intend? 
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #52 on: 17 March 2015, 12:19:44 »
Edit: nevermind.  There's no point in arguing over what Jordan Weisman & co. intended in the 80s.  It's irrelevant anyway.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2015, 12:21:27 by Arkansas Warrior »
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #53 on: 17 March 2015, 16:45:42 »
Edit: nevermind.  There's no point in arguing over what Jordan Weisman & co. intended in the 80s.  It's irrelevant anyway.
Yes we should stop before it becomes threadcrapping.

In the end people just have different visions of aspects about the game setting.  I tend to prefer ones from earlier in the game's development which make the 'Errant Mechwarrior' vibe easier to pull off in-setting.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #54 on: 17 March 2015, 16:55:33 »
And I'd much rather have the modern developers.  The modern fluff makes a lot more sense, and works together better, than FASA's ever did.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #55 on: 17 March 2015, 22:13:54 »
And I'd much rather have the modern developers.  The modern fluff makes a lot more sense, and works together better, than FASA's ever did.

That is, of course, entirely a matter of perspective.  The modern fluff has some bits that make me, personally, want to burn my sourcebooks.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #56 on: 17 March 2015, 22:28:49 »
Of course, that's what this whole debate has been about, perspective and opinion.  Like whether mechs are more like tanks or fighters.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #57 on: 18 March 2015, 03:27:28 »
I think you got some of this backwards. And despite what Herb says there's plenty of evidence that suggests that Infantry SRM's, LRM's and MRM's are the real deal

Sorry. I said this where and when?

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #58 on: 18 March 2015, 03:41:54 »
Sorry. I said this where and when?
Ring any bells?

Hi,

Because all three are different weapons. They may have the same name, but the conventional infantry MagShot, the battle armor version, and the vehicular versions, are different forms.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #59 on: 18 March 2015, 04:10:09 »
Ring any bells?

That answer referred to the MagShot. You mentioned SRMs, LRMs, and MRMs. Apples do not equal oranges, no matter how many nuts you throw into the equation.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #60 on: 18 March 2015, 04:36:13 »
Ok, true, but it's still a good explanation for why infantry missiles don't pack the wallop 'Mech ones do

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #61 on: 18 March 2015, 08:20:52 »
Battlemechs should be fantastically more complicated than armored vehicles or modern combat aircraft.

they should also be rugged as all heck, given what we know. unlike the hollywood "everything gets its own underlighting and is made of techno-origami" idea of advanced tech, a battlemech is fantastically durable and idiot-proofed (which, given the caliber of idiocy you see in the inner sphere is sorta vital) and isn't built to start seizing up because techs haven't been there to give it a full-body rubdown after every fight. most of the systems are apparently fairly self-contained and aren't about to malf up unless you're pounding on it directly, which is why armor is kind of a big thing.

sure, without routine maintenance it'll start to get loud and a bit stiff when it moves i'm sure, but nothing you can't clear up when you can actually get to a repair facility and open her up.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #62 on: 18 March 2015, 09:29:23 »
they should also be rugged as all heck, given what we know. unlike the hollywood "everything gets its own underlighting and is made of techno-origami" idea of advanced tech, a battlemech is fantastically durable and idiot-proofed (which, given the caliber of idiocy you see in the inner sphere is sorta vital) and isn't built to start seizing up because techs haven't been there to give it a full-body rubdown after every fight. most of the systems are apparently fairly self-contained and aren't about to malf up unless you're pounding on it directly, which is why armor is kind of a big thing.

sure, without routine maintenance it'll start to get loud and a bit stiff when it moves i'm sure, but nothing you can't clear up when you can actually get to a repair facility and open her up.
I agree.  Here's the post I was responding to:
It's all a result in changes in the setting slowly creeping in over years.  As a group of people try to make BattleMechs more akin to the late-generation fighters they want to think of them as rather than the armored fighting vehicles they were originally envisioned as.  Notice how maintenance requirements slowly but steadily went up, they emphasized need for parts as being special that were never made a fuss about before, assumed that mech units would need larger and larger teams of techs and astechs per mech.

Just ignore them and go back to the foundation of the setting, they want you to play the game their way but remember you can just ignore them and play it your way.
I'm disagreeing with the bolded part that suggests mechs don't need special, hard-to-acquire parts or tech teams.  Mechs are certainly fantastically rugged, and if you just leave one in a shed your great-great-grandchild will probably be able to start it right up one day, but it's still a high-tech, fantastically complex machine that's hard to acquire parts for (especially on backwater Periphery worlds) that needs technical support if you take it out and get it shot up facing down pirates.  Likewise, I wouldn't trust the pilot to do most of his own technical work.  Can he help out as an astech?  Sure.  But there needs to be at least one fully-trained tech on hand, and probably several astechs, at least if you want to do the job quickly.
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blackjack

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #63 on: 19 March 2015, 23:26:57 »
If I were to be stationed out in the periphery I would think it best to use a mech that is in general use.  Mechs like the griffin, shadow hawk, ostrocs & marauders are in general use. In most cases  an Errant MechWarrior is going to have a mercenary type contract with the locals to some extent. This would possibly include some level of maintenance & or spare parts.
#704

Alan Grant

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #64 on: 03 April 2015, 18:01:22 »
I imagine a nightmare scenario for a mechwarrior out in the periphery is something like what happened to the mercenary commander during the intro to Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries.

Some dropship takes you someplace and then abandons you when things get too tough. You are on your own until you find some safe harbor or sanctuary and make some new friends by cutting a new deal.

So anything that helps the endurance factor is good, like energy weapons.

Same with something like what happened to Avanti's Angels out in the periphery. A periphery planet government decided to declare that the unit's creditors were shutting the unit down and that the government had orders to seize all the unit's personnel and equipment. In reality it was just a ruse to grab the unit's equipment for their use and to maybe turn the personnel into slaves.

In the Inner Sphere this kind of scenario is less likely, but in the more remote parts of the periphery anything goes.

Vehrec

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #65 on: 05 April 2015, 18:22:54 »
I dunno-in the inner sphere, the only difference would be more lawyers and a less questionable set of loan sharks making the initial outlays of cash.
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blackjack

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #66 on: 07 April 2015, 22:29:09 »
I imagine a nightmare scenario for a mechwarrior out in the periphery is something like what happened to the mercenary commander during the intro to Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries.

Some dropship takes you someplace and then abandons you when things get too tough. You are on your own until you find some safe harbor or sanctuary and make some new friends by cutting a new deal.

So anything that helps the endurance factor is good, like energy weapons.

Same with something like what happened to Avanti's Angels out in the periphery. A periphery planet government decided to declare that the unit's creditors were shutting the unit down and that the government had orders to seize all the unit's personnel and equipment. In reality it was just a ruse to grab the unit's equipment for their use and to maybe turn the personnel into slaves.

In the Inner Sphere this kind of scenario is less likely, but in the more remote parts of the periphery anything goes.
And this is when you go pirate on em!!!
#704

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #67 on: 12 May 2015, 20:27:19 »
And this is when you go pirate on em!!!
  Or when you turn their kingdom into your kingdom.  8)

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #68 on: 12 May 2015, 21:49:12 »
Good point. I suspect that may be how a lot of early bandit kingdoms got started.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #69 on: 13 May 2015, 07:42:49 »
In theory, if you want something that's as easy to maintain as possible while still a BattleMech... or at least close to it... maybe that errant should be piloting an Arbiter.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #70 on: 13 May 2015, 14:58:05 »
In theory, if you want something that's as easy to maintain as possible while still a BattleMech... or at least close to it... maybe that errant should be piloting an Arbiter.

The phrase "penny wise, pound foolish" comes to mind.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #71 on: 13 May 2015, 17:19:13 »
If we are talking milita mechs I'd go for a Lumberjack or Quasit. 
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #72 on: 13 May 2015, 17:26:27 »
Yeah, but how many militia 'Mechs on industrial platforms can expect to engage one or more BattleMechs and actually survive?  I suspect you're better off with a true BattleMech.
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #73 on: 13 May 2015, 17:43:50 »
The key consideration is long term endurance. We're talking flashbulb mostly, but a "deal closer" weapon for emergencies wouldn't be out of the question. I'd lean toward a heavy cavalry mech (I'd like the Black Knight), that can take a punch but can still had the speed to simply evade hits (more economical). A speedster could work in theory, but I don't see him having the muscle to stand up to a determined assault. There's also an argument for the "go big or go home"; An  Awesome has good balance of endurance, speed and firepower, and nothing says "you came to the wrong neighborhood" like an Atlas that just might send the would be bandits to look for easier targets.

The image of a duelist taking all comers might seem nice, but a true warrior knows that 90% of war is deception and the greatest victory is the one achieved without fighting. The best course of action for a successful knight errant would probably be to make himself seem like more trouble than he's worth.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #74 on: 14 May 2015, 03:25:41 »
The phrase "penny wise, pound foolish" comes to mind.
Yeah, but how many militia 'Mechs on industrial platforms can expect to engage one or more BattleMechs and actually survive?  I suspect you're better off with a true BattleMech.
I think you're both absolutely correct, and I can't think of any combat situation where I'd want to be in an Arbiter ahead of any BattleMech. The fact remains though, if one of your key requirements is what's the most logistically supportable/easily maintained ride when operating in backwater no-name Periphery worlds with level D-F USIIR ratings across the board and tenuous supply links... there's not much out there more easily supportable than the Arbiter.

Of course if a planet is being defended by a single MechWarrior, then chances are that for the residents of that planet, when the pirates attack, life's going to suck - however many pirates there are.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #75 on: 14 May 2015, 10:05:18 »
I'd lean toward something like an old Phoenix Hawk.  You can outgun anything you can't outrun, and outrun anything you can't outgun.  You have sufficient reach to avoid facing ML or SRM spam, and can keep shooting all day at bad odds (thanks to keeping your movement modifiers as high as possible) without running out of ammo.  You can get in and back out of a lot of places where your opponents can't easily follow, or chase them into places they thought they were safe, thanks to the jumping capabilities of the 'Mech.  It's also a common enough design, for pretty close to forever, to allow you to get replacement parts with relative ease.  If you run into something like a full lance of Mediums or Heavies, one 'Mech isn't going to stop them anyway, no matter what you use, and you've got the maneuverability to stay within spotting distance without getting caught, in case they make a mistake you can capitalize on.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #76 on: 14 May 2015, 15:33:15 »
The fact remains though, if one of your key requirements is what's the most logistically supportable/easily maintained ride when operating in backwater no-name Periphery worlds with level D-F USIIR ratings across the board and tenuous supply links... there's not much out there more easily supportable than the Arbiter.

The point of investing in a defense is to deter pirates, not convince them it's time to torch a few orphanages to make a point.  Supporting a single Arbiter to do anything other than march in a parade is probably prosecutable as criminal negligence under some planets' law codes.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #77 on: 14 May 2015, 20:08:12 »
While a industrial militia mech would not be my first choice (That's a Grasshopper), the Lumberjack militia mech  should not be dismissed. With 2 LRM 15's, 2 Med Lasers , a Large Laser, Advanced Fire Control, Jump Jets, and heavy armor ( almost as much as a Archer) it can put a hurting on anything and take some punches. The downsides it is slow and you have to watch your heat but it is easier to maintain in the backwaters .
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #78 on: 11 June 2015, 05:44:36 »
The point of investing in a defense is to deter pirates, not convince them it's time to torch a few orphanages to make a point.  Supporting a single Arbiter to do anything other than march in a parade is probably prosecutable as criminal negligence under some planets' law codes.
Well as long as the pirates don't know what an Arbiter actually is and how good it is, that whole marching in a parade thing sounds like a good idea

imperator

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #79 on: 21 June 2015, 05:56:58 »
Most mech errants are basically set up as mobile small units any way. Think one mech, with 2-3 trucks and 2-7 men in Support. Though you could probably do it yourself with a truck with cargo for the Mech, a small mobile fabricator/smithy, and a trailer with cargo and ammo. You would need an industrial Exo/ mover for smaller loads. Having skills in Mechtech, Vehicle tech, and a knoledge to produce your own ammo could allow you to Do the wandering Errant thing.
Their is no problem Jump Jets and an assault class auto-cannon can't handle.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #80 on: 08 July 2015, 08:18:02 »
From a role playing sense, would be nice to have a quick and dirty guideline for an errant unit. Keep it small and the stories gritty with lots of firepower.

Koren-Gagin

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #81 on: 03 September 2015, 00:42:52 »
Quick idea here folks let's a hypathetical knight errant on some find down barely a planet whose only defenders would most likely be the farmers with theeir peashooters.

Well suddenly boom a lance of pirate raiders land to snatch and grab what they want than said Knight Errant fights them. The pirates are most likely be in light mechs with hand actuactaers so they can pick up or heap loot and haul it as need I would assume and what I would want for my mech if I was a pirate. Being light, fast and having hands.

So let's then assume this knight is in a medium or light for you energy boat panther with its ppc its got a punch that well tear any light mech to shreds sure only one hand but he aint there to steal and rob the locals unless he decides having his own kingdom sounds good. So thanks to this knight errant he takes a few pirate mechs out forceimg them to withdraw leaving the spoils to the knight.

There you go folks sure I just waved my hands gave the win to the knight errant but than it helps fixes the supply issue a bit sudddenly there's ton of armor laying around, parts, or even a spare mech if the remains are able to jubbled together making a second mech the knight can either keep around as a spare, possible share with a disppossed mechwarrior on planet he trust, or train a local that he notices that has the aptitude to pilot a mech.

But of course this relies on the knight errant actually beating the pirates the first time and hoping their leader does not come for revenge ASAP. For supply before any pirates if the knight is in the good with the local gov or any smiths he can get primative armor easily. On ammo its not so hard either expolosives are chemistry 101 any self respecting hillbilly that makes his own ammo can tell dull making ur own ammo may not be as great as that fancy factory ammo but if its all you got its better than nothin.

So since we have rules for primitive mechs, including primitive armor, primitive ammo/homade ammo its not hard to assume that any back water planet in the middle of no where can give basic support to a mech though I would think the clan era and on built mechs may hurt the most in such situations but most mechs by then are nationalized affairs with less staying in the hands of families form one genaration to the next.

But anyone do a knight errant game its going to be a RP game with house rules as need to fix rules that seem to not work in said game. But I digress hope ya enjoyed reading this has actually gave me an idea to run among the ppl I play with since they like to RP and want to try a little "out of the box" game. I think it will take months for them to want to do anything else once I pass this on to them.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #82 on: 04 September 2015, 09:26:52 »
If your hypothetical Knight Errant is in a Panther, those pirate bug 'Mechs are very likely to try to get behind that Panther, and have the speed to do so.  Your Knight doesn't have the speed to avoid that, or to get a high enough modifier to give them a bad shot when they get there.  End result, the farmers are happy because the Pirates had more valuable stuff to take than their crops and farm machinery; the Pirates are happy because they got the remains of a Panther for parts, and the only person who's really less than satisfied with the deal is your dispossessed Knight Errant.

Compare that to a Phoenix Hawk.  The Pirates probably don't have more than maybe one lightweight 'Mech in their force faster than the P-Hawk, and perhaps an even thinner-skinned hovertank.  If they do, the P-Hawk is tough to hit, so they may do some trivial damage without punching the back armor, and get an arm-mounted LL and MG at point-blank in reply.  Hovertanks and 20 ton bug 'Mechs really hate that for some reason.  The P-Hawk can at least maintain range from everything else, or close at his own convenience.

The Pirates can't burden their 'Mechs with arm-loads of loot without compromising their fighting abilities, and can't spread out to search, so they're frustrated.  They can't catch the Knight, except for one or two individual units that are no match for the P-Hawk's greater firepower and armor, and can't run fast enough to avoid being trailed.  In essence, it's a standoff at worst, if not in outright favor of the Knight, until the Pirates decide that there's nothing further to be gained.

If the Pirates show up with a lance of Heavies, no other single 'Mech is going to deal with that anyway, and the P-Hawk can at least trail them and try to harass any that fall behind or are hindered by carried loot.

Also, how difficult or expensive is it to get MG ammo?  The Panther's SRMs may be slightly more difficult to find at the local flea market or general store.  If your Panther pilot needs an actuator, he's got to order one from Combine space.  A P-Hawk replacement part is probably available from suppliers in every major House and some Periphery realms.
« Last Edit: 04 September 2015, 09:33:11 by Kovax »

snakespinner

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #83 on: 04 September 2015, 21:04:19 »
The D variant PHX does not need MG ammo. So even better.
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Koren-Gagin

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #84 on: 05 September 2015, 11:03:15 »
If your hypothetical Knight Errant is in a Panther, those pirate bug 'Mechs are very likely to try to get behind that Panther, and have the speed to do so.  Your Knight doesn't have the speed to avoid that, or to get a high enough modifier to give them a bad shot when they get there.  End result, the farmers are happy because the Pirates had more valuable stuff to take than their crops and farm machinery; the Pirates are happy because they got the remains of a Panther for parts, and the only person who's really less than satisfied with the deal is your dispossessed Knight Errant.

Compare that to a Phoenix Hawk.  The Pirates probably don't have more than maybe one lightweight 'Mech in their force faster than the P-Hawk, and perhaps an even thinner-skinned hovertank.  If they do, the P-Hawk is tough to hit, so they may do some trivial damage without punching the back armor, and get an arm-mounted LL and MG at point-blank in reply.  Hovertanks and 20 ton bug 'Mechs really hate that for some reason.  The P-Hawk can at least maintain range from everything else, or close at his own convenience.

The Pirates can't burden their 'Mechs with arm-loads of loot without compromising their fighting abilities, and can't spread out to search, so they're frustrated.  They can't catch the Knight, except for one or two individual units that are no match for the P-Hawk's greater firepower and armor, and can't run fast enough to avoid being trailed.  In essence, it's a standoff at worst, if not in outright favor of the Knight, until the Pirates decide that there's nothing further to be gained.

If the Pirates show up with a lance of Heavies, no other single 'Mech is going to deal with that anyway, and the P-Hawk can at least trail them and try to harass any that fall behind or are hindered by carried loot.

Also, how difficult or expensive is it to get MG ammo?  The Panther's SRMs may be slightly more difficult to find at the local flea market or general store.  If your Panther pilot needs an actuator, he's got to order one from Combine space.  A P-Hawk replacement part is probably available from suppliers in every major House and some Periphery realms.

Well since I did not state the location of the planet this knight errant is does not suggest that it has to be on the far side since most likely its a former combine pilot or a pyramids or davion that has fought angainst the combine meaning its near the combine roughly but this fiat and hand waving which in a RP game happens no big deal.

On possibilities of pirates have heavy mechs if they did bring them I would think they would be staying near the dropship most likely anyways. On the bug mechs speed vs my panthers slow speed. Yes mechs like the spider can go 8/12/8 compared to the panthers' 4/6/4.

But the two medium lasers on the spider compared to the panthers ppc and srm 4. Since I will be assuming that my panther pilot well most likely be better than some average Joe pirate except the pirate leader and his/her second in command. But since the panther using on its ppc and walking using the PNT-9R can stay heat manageble also I doubt the spider well stay around long once the first blast of ppc hits it.

Now onto the ammo since there are ammo creation rules and with some hand waving and RP poor got ammo. So I must say srm 4 ammo not hard if the local militia is using srms anyways since in Battletech infantry weapons can be used on mechs just with the infantry ranges.

But thanks to RP we can say the knight errant goes to the ppl making the arms for militia, role for whatever you like. Reputation, convincing the factory boss to make u more ammo in return you live near by with the promise to help protect the factory or whatever the boss is willing to trade.for his services to make ammo. Just remember RP it, hand wave it if there's no rule or stat in some book saying that this or that is built hear or there.

But I'm ok with the panther since it may be slow but compared to most mechs in it the same weight area it packs the most punch and pirates don't like scary big boom badda boom stuff. I word hope since the arbiter proves pirates don't like scary things. If I were a pirate I would be like hey its a panther let's swarm than poof.

"Bob! Bob is down run! Back to the dropship!"

But that's mho of how the knight errant and pirates would react but if you want the knight errant to lose go ahead that's your game I'm ok with that but remember man we have our games and well they well run differently and with the power of RNJesus even then it could be anything how it ends.
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #85 on: 05 September 2015, 11:28:16 »
Any unit that resorts to swarm tactics, isn't going to back down the moment someone bites it. The pirates leader, or at least his "dragon" if he's one of the more successful pirate captains, will likely be leading the raid; both for weeping the man into battle, and at the very least seeing exactly what kind of loot they find, making sure no one is pocketing some nice bauble.

And assuming that you are better than the average pirate, especially several of them, is a dangerous assumption. Most pirates, particularly mechwarriors (as other classes are easier to train), would be unemployed mercs and deserters. People who were trained to fight for a living. The knight errant is basically a guy who happened to come by a mech and decided to go vigilante, he thinks he's a badass but won't know until he meets the first pirate who come looking for trouble. You'd have a hundred guys like that for every former DEST that decides to become space-batman.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #86 on: 05 September 2015, 11:31:33 »
Actually, I suspect a lot of errants are either survivors from mercenary commands that got chewed up, or older MechWarriors who have gone into retirement.
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #87 on: 05 September 2015, 11:53:12 »
Actually, I suspect a lot of errants are either survivors from mercenary commands that got chewed up, or older MechWarriors who have gone into retirement.
Same can be said for pirates.
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Have you met the clans? Words like "Naïve" and "misguided" are not enough to describe the notion that a conquest of the IS by the clans would result in a Utopian pacifistic society.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #88 on: 05 September 2015, 12:46:52 »
And I suspect that a lot of errants end up petty bandit kings.
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Koren-Gagin

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #89 on: 05 September 2015, 14:33:42 »
And I suspect that a lot of errants end up petty bandit kings.

For sure but when you got the only mech on planet either someone going to try and steal it or your going to tell the sheeple what to do.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #90 on: 16 September 2015, 14:51:34 »
But I'm ok with the panther since it may be slow but compared to most mechs in it the same weight area it packs the most punch and pirates don't like scary big boom badda boom stuff. I word hope since the arbiter proves pirates don't like scary things. If I were a pirate I would be like hey its a panther let's swarm than poof.

"Bob! Bob is down run! Back to the dropship!"

But that's mho of how the knight errant and pirates would react but if you want the knight errant to lose go ahead that's your game I'm ok with that but remember man we have our games and well they well run differently and with the power of RNJesus even then it could be anything how it ends.
I'm NOT "OK" with the Panther, because I know how easily I can take one down with almost ANY Medium 'Mech.  I've killed several Panthers with Locusts or Stingers, and heaven help you if the pirate leader shows up in a Heavy, because you can't outrun it.  PPC?  Nice, here's TWO of them!

The minimum range modifier on the PPC and the torso-mounted missile rack means that covering your back arc is "iffy" at best.  Where do you think any self-respecting Spider or Locust pilot is going to park his ride?  Say "bye-bye" to those ammo bins, and hope that you ran them empty due to a local SRM shortage before you took that hit to the back.

Give me a  PXH-anything, HER-2S (or -2M, even better), WLF-1, JR-7F, or even a FS-9A (SLs, rather than MGs, so no ammo to worry about).  You've got better firepower than whatever can catch you (unless they've got their own decently powerful speedster), and better speed than whatever can outgun you.  Armor is respectably thick, and your weapons loadout is primarily energy-based.  If the pirates show up with a lance of bug-'Mechs and/or vehicles, you can take them on piecemeal in a running fight, with a decent chance of winning.

If the pirates show up with a couple of 4/6 movement Heavies or even 5/8 Mediums, you can maintain your watch from a safe distance, and there's nothing they can do about it.  If they drop their guard to loot, split up, or carry stuff, they're suddenly vulnerable to an attack, and they know it.

The Panther leaves the initiative entirely in their hands.

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #91 on: 18 September 2015, 08:35:29 »
Not if they bring an UrbanMech. :)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #92 on: 18 September 2015, 09:32:54 »
Then they're doomed, because Urbie > all. ;)
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Kovax

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #93 on: 18 September 2015, 10:25:46 »
Not if they bring an UrbanMech. :)
Oh no, I completely forgot about the Urbanmech.  That obviously negates any arguments, and trumps whatever plans were made beforehand.  That 10-point weapon threat is fully reversible, and the 'Mech can torso twist, offering a full 360 degree firing arc with no minimum range.  Forget about attacking it with a bug 'Mech, because it's suicide.  Unless someone brings an Imp (what an Urbanmech becomes when it grows up) to deal with it, they're screwed.

Koren-Gagin

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #94 on: 18 September 2015, 10:42:49 »
Oh no, I completely forgot about the Urbanmech.  That obviously negates any arguments, and trumps whatever plans were made beforehand.  That 10-point weapon threat is fully reversible, and the 'Mech can torso twist, offering a full 360 degree firing arc with no minimum range.  Forget about attacking it with a bug 'Mech, because it's suicide.  Unless someone brings an Imp (what an Urbanmech becomes when it grows up) to deal with it, they're screwed.

Than just bring more urbies or take yor urbie to the mech trainer to level him up to imp. URBIE upgrades to IMP!
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akodo

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #95 on: 06 November 2015, 15:04:22 »
Knight Errant in the romance novel was often accompanied by his faithful young squire, or sometimes the old servant/tutor who had been at his side since childhood.

The real Knight Errant was more wandering around because he was the 2nd or 3rd son and when Dad died older brother inherited everything except for his personal armaments, some horses, and a purse of gold, so he was out to find his way in the world.  Keep in mind such a knight would have his war horse, a riding horse, and probably a couple pack horses, a squire, a few general man-at-arms (a couple guys with helmets and spears, or maybe a few bowmen) and a couple servants.  It wasn't really a lone figure.

I expect the Battletech equivalent was a mechwarrior, his mech, and a couple technicians for repairs, and probably a couple of people who just oversaw the logistics of the small band = cooking, cleaning, fetching things, repairing non-mech stuff that broke, etc.

Also, a mechwarrior needs to get his mech there somehow.  An errant mechwarrior isn't going to have his own jumpship and his own dropship.   He's going to be limited to worlds that have a spaceport, find where a cargo ship or something is going and pay to have them include his mech and team.  This means there is going to be SOME commerce going on.  He may have 4 tons of LRM ammo in a stash someplace, uses 2 tons and then orders 2 more at the local spaceport.  It may take a few months possibly maybe a year, but he was able to deliver his mech there, he's going to be able to get other items delivered as well.

Still, relying mainly on energy weapons is going to be the smart move

akodo

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #96 on: 06 November 2015, 15:12:46 »
A bigger question might be how errant mechs get created in the first place.  Armies are usually loathe to allow a major piece of military equipment to walk off (or be secreted out of) a base, nevertheless launched offworld and jumped into the unknown Periphery.  And it's hard to see how a mechwarrior who owns his ride and is rich enough to afford interstellar shipping to a very out-of-the-way world would choose to spend his riches on the errant lifestyle in retirement.  Even if seeking solace from PTSD, setting oneself up to take on annual bandit raids singlehandedly seems like a bad way to deal with the psychological scars of warfare. 



You make a good point about how often someone is going to be able to walk off with millions of credits worth of military gear.

I think the most likely avenues are mechwarriors that were part of mercinary units that sustained enough losses to dissolve.  This might not be a lot, if the band is held together by a charismatic leader who catches an AC/20 with his cockpit, everyone else might go on their own.  If we have mechs coming from a feudal system, then too with the death of a leader you might have a few that break away and do their own thing going knight errant.  The more organized units directly serving one of the big houses, probably not a good chance they'd ever go knight errant, but some possibilities are their unit was thought to be wiped out, but in reality there is one mechwarrior left.  Stuck behind enemy lines, he says F You for abandoning him to trying to return to formalized service, and yet hates plus needs to hide from the conquerors.  So he gathers up support staff that was probably also abandoned, a bit of battlefield salvage for spare parts, and takes a space-train home or just to a fringe world where he views the people as being the same citizenry as himself but one with no official governmental or military presence.

solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #97 on: 06 November 2015, 19:58:01 »
Well, how I understand it works in BT pretty much from the reunification wars, the militaries were just fine with someone taking his all but obsolete machine instead of having to pay him a pension for the next 40-60 years. It happens especially at the end of wars, when there's a massive demobilization. As for why it would fly in the succession wars time, when battlemechs were at a premium? In a homage to the customs of chivalry of old, if you down a battlemech and it can be salvaged in good shape (like after a head shot), you get to keep what you kill. You see some of the more successful MechWarrior families keeping a "stable" of a couple of spare machines, in case the family mech goes kaput.

In places like the DCMS, where the MechWarrior and his ride are suppose to be as one, they would probably have to pry it from his cold dead fingers.
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #98 on: 08 November 2015, 20:04:14 »
The real Knight Errant was more wandering around because he was the 2nd or 3rd son and when Dad died older brother inherited everything except for his personal armaments, some horses, and a purse of gold, so he was out to find his way in the world.
And just as many were first sons but of fiefs that were so small or poor they couldn't really support a knight.  So they gathered a couple of their trusted men and went out looking to bring in money to keep the fief afloat via ransom, prize, and war loot.
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Von Jankmon

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #99 on: 08 November 2015, 20:12:35 »
Best ride for an errant:

Phoenix Hawk PXH-1
- Basic technology, all energy except for machine guns. Machine gun ammo is plentiful and useful allowing for what the errant will be mostly facing.


Best ride for his squire:

Stinger-3R
- No nonsense design that can keep up.



Romantic reputation aside an errant is likely a deserter or someone who missed an evac and ended up wandering.  Either than or a fugitive who kept on running.  Both might want to make a different name fro themselves once they get to the periphery.  There may well be a quiet agreement amongst law enforcement that if a mechwarrior goes into the deep periphery and becomes and errant rather than a pirate they will be left alone unless they have committed a heinous offense, and their past will not be exposed.  Errants help keep the periphery border clear.
« Last Edit: 08 November 2015, 20:16:35 by Von Jankmon »
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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #100 on: 09 December 2015, 11:05:33 »
Historically, most errant knights were younger sons of a noble.  The eldest son inherited the title and land, while the younger son(s) got whatever they managed to obtain as a gift (often a weapon, some armor, and a horse) from their father before his death.  Their only chances of regaining status as landed nobles were by winning tournaments for the hand of a widow (and her land) or taking and being granted a title to land in a war.

In the BT universe, I would assume that the "younger son" situation would again play a leading factor, although former military or mercenary Mechwarriors who managed to obtain a 'Mech (legally or otherwise) would likely be a significant addition.  In virtually all cases, there is nothing for them to go back to.  On a minor border or periphery planet, they can be a "de facto" lord and protector, but without any official sanction behind it.

solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #101 on: 09 December 2015, 15:39:16 »
In MechWarrior families, I don't see the family getting a "younger son" (or other scions) his own mech. In MechWarrior families, the pilot of the family's mech, is the defacto head of the family (including the extended family). Of course this scions would still get preference when trying to get into a military academy and receive a battlemech through military service.

In not so minor noble families, things would be different. The holder of the highest title (say a duke), is the head of the extended family; giving and rebuking barony titles to his siblings and cousins, and even holding some tenues dominion over the lesser cadet lines (headed by counts and below, but are usually controlling their own planets, which aren't necessarily part of his territory). While they would have the resources to provide a scion with a ride, they would probably prefer to use their clout to arrange for him a military commission and battalion or regiment command, which in turn will increase the family's overall influence far more than bankrolling a roaming vigilante.
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jackson123

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #102 on: 10 December 2015, 20:15:18 »
Now maybe if the noble family has more then one mech then younger children would have the option of piloting mechs.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #103 on: 11 December 2015, 01:26:58 »
Right.  The oldest inherits dad's Marauder, and the youngest gets to rebuild the salvaged Panther he brought home last year.  :-\


I've only just remembered, there's an errant mechwarrior of sorts mentioned in TRO 3058: he drives a Nightstar.
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #104 on: 11 December 2015, 10:52:27 »
It's a little more complex than that. It's not unusual for successful families to keep "spares". In case the family mech is destroyed, the family devotes their resources to replacing it; preferably having one or more on stand-by. If another family member acquires a battlemech (like the doing it the "hard way", through enlistment into the army) than he starts his own cadet line (same as for example of a noble scion who gets appointed as a noble ruler of a planet by the house lord). I'd imagine that there's leeway, in case the MechWarrior captures a superior machine (say the family mech is a centurion, and he captures an Atlas); he might decide to upgrade (many don't), but there's no point for it just sitting and collecting dust.

Also, about the inheritance. In principle, it's not a direct line of succession; though of course it's not unheard of a son inheriting his father's machine. If he's alive, as the head of the family, he probably has a huge weight in choosing his successor. But in principle, all the children of the extended family are trained from an early age, and are tested for the position (which makes them also excellent candidates for academies...); the idea is to find the candidate that has the best chance to add glory to the family - though one can simply appoint his son, many will consider it a betrayal of the family if he didn't at least gone through the motions to prove he's the superior inheritor. It's likely that the holder of the mech stacks the odds at his progeny favour by giving him more opportunities for "hands on" experience, while the rest rely mostly on simulators.
Making the dark age a little brighter, one explosion at a time.
Have you met the clans? Words like "Naïve" and "misguided" are not enough to describe the notion that a conquest of the IS by the clans would result in a Utopian pacifistic society.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #105 on: 11 December 2015, 15:20:51 »
Is that headcanon, or do you have a reference for it?  Neofeudalism isn't necessarily identical to medieval feudalism, but that's...not really how it usually worked in the old system.  The eldest son inherited by virtue of being the eldest son, period.  It seems to me that BT usually follows this pattern the vast majority of the time.  How often do we see a noble cut their eldest child out of the Succession for a sibling or more distant relative?  Harrison Davion inteded to, and the Mariks have done so on occasion, but the examples of that sort of thing in BT are quite rare with the families we get any detail on.  I'm not sure why it would be the case for the families we don't get detail on.
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #106 on: 12 December 2015, 11:29:26 »
Is that headcanon, or do you have a reference for it?  Neofeudalism isn't necessarily identical to medieval feudalism, but that's...not really how it usually worked in the old system.  The eldest son inherited by virtue of being the eldest son, period.  It seems to me that BT usually follows this pattern the vast majority of the time.  How often do we see a noble cut their eldest child out of the Succession for a sibling or more distant relative?  Harrison Davion inteded to, and the Mariks have done so on occasion, but the examples of that sort of thing in BT are quite rare with the families we get any detail on.  I'm not sure why it would be the case for the families we don't get detail on.
Not exactly headcanon, as much as deduction from given sources. From the new CM: Mercs :
"When a MechWarrior died, his ’Mech passed to an heir. Knowing this, parents began training their children in BattleMech operation at very young ages. Those who showed the most promise received intense training in their teen years, including simulator training, mock battles, and live-fire drills. The best of these teenagers were admitted to prestigious MechWarrior academies."

The bolded part implies that mechwarrior training and ownership isn't simply passed downed in a straight line to the next in line. Mechwarrior family are more than feudal knights, they are also a franchise; especially in the BTverse, the right name can open doors and bestow power. The family has to make sure they are properly represented; if they stop producing good mechwarriors, it hurts the whole family.

The senior mechwarrior holds a lot of power, and he can stack the odds in his son favour. But for big and old families, there would be a lot of cousins eying the position. Once the senior mechwarrior is dead however, his power becomes only sentimental. You'll have different branches of the family vying for the political power that comes from being the new pilot; but the on the overall, it would be in the family interest to have the most telanted candidate. depedning on the famliy, that could mean a smooth transition from father to son. It mostly depend on the overall power of the family. The endgame would be to reach straight up noble status, where the battlemech becomes a marginal part of their pwoer compared to their estates. In a lowly famliy, where being the battlemech pilot is the difference between being somebody or being a nobody commoner, I'd expect there would be stiff competition, with brother pitted against brother, to the point of even fratricidal violence. It also depdnds on the availability of battlemechs: if the other siblings are confident that they can simply join a national academy and fulfill their potential as mechwarriors, they'd have no reason not to simply shrug and say "Buh! I'll start my own mechwarrior family! with BlackJacks and hookers!".
Making the dark age a little brighter, one explosion at a time.
Have you met the clans? Words like "Naïve" and "misguided" are not enough to describe the notion that a conquest of the IS by the clans would result in a Utopian pacifistic society.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #107 on: 12 December 2015, 15:04:18 »
I think you're reading too much into that one line.  Almost everywhere else I've ever seen where we have any detail, the fief passes to the eldest child.  Janos disinheriting Therese and Harrison intending to disinherit Caleb are the only counterexamples that come to mind, though I'm sure there are a few others.  I can't see there being constant fratricidal warfare somewhere in the nation as families fight over who gets to be the heir.  In feudalism these things are usually clearly delineated, in a will if nothing else.  I'm not saying it never happens, but I can't see it being common for families to disregard the head's wishes and start fighting over the succession as soon as his body's cold.  How often has that actually happened in the fiction?
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #108 on: 12 December 2015, 16:51:16 »
You keep equating battlemechs with land...

The metaphor of giving the second born a horse and armor as consolation for not getting land, is upside down. The "horse" i.e. battlemech, is more important than some mansion or manor. Nobles will gladly give you land if you bring your mech along. If you have a mech battalion a house lord will gladly give you your own planet; it won't be a fancy planet, but it'll be yours.

Unlike a piece of land, where you can hire an administrator to run things while you go live in your cottage at a much better planet, military hardware is another thing. Skill means a lot more than simply being next in line. Look at various commands, mercenary, national and privately owned. More often than not, leadership of the command doesn't pass directly to the son, but rather to the XO, or one of the battalion commanders. Will the son be given a place, even in a minor command position? Sure. Might he be able to climb to command of the entire unit? Why not.

Many of the cases where the battlemech is passed directly to the son, is when there simply isn't anyone else to challenge it. Also post clan invasion, heirlooms mechs aren't what they used to be, often heavily outclassed by newer machines.

Discussing Marik and Davion succession in length would be way off-topic for this thread, so I'll just say that when it comes to the throne of a house lord, a clear and predetermined line of succession is a matter of national stability; you want the transition of power to be as smooth as possible, not start a civil war every time a house lord dies, which often already a time of crisis which needs not be exacerbated.
Making the dark age a little brighter, one explosion at a time.
Have you met the clans? Words like "Naïve" and "misguided" are not enough to describe the notion that a conquest of the IS by the clans would result in a Utopian pacifistic society.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #109 on: 12 December 2015, 18:01:49 »
Several points here.  A mercenary unit isn't necessarily a feudal organization.  The unit CO is the boss, he doesn't hold the unit as a vassal of anyone.  Therefore, if he doesn't want to pass it to a blood heir, he doesn't have to.  Many units do, many units don't.  Likewise the mercenaries in the unit aren't vassals of the CO.  If he appoints an incompetent successor, they can leave.  As such, there's good incentive not to pass the unit to an inexperienced or incompetent heir, at least not immediately.

I'm not equating mechs with land exactly, but there is usually a strong link, especially at lower levels; the noble is granted land in return for service, usually as a mechwarrior.  If the noble can no longer provided the required service or cannot effectively rule their fief, they're likely in danger of losing said fief.  The two go hand in hand.  The idea of simply giving the mech to the best pilot would be as likely to get the family stripped of lands & title for incompetent rule as giving the mech to an incompetent pilot would get lands & title stripped for not fulfilling military obligations.  Also, I doubt you'd find historical cases, or many parents who'd wish to strip their children of their inheritance.  Besides, was every member of the extended family trained from birth to possibly inherit the fief?  The best mechwarrior might be a completely incompetent Lord.  I don't think it's realistic at all to think a noble could just hire someone to rule their fief and not need to do so themselves.  Again, I don't know of any historical or canon precedent for that.  I doubt their noble superior is going to accept "The guy I hired to do my job screwed it up."  That's a good way to get stripped of your title.  I could perhaps see the mech being loaned out to an aunt/uncle or cousin or niece/nephew, etc if the noble ruler was incapable of piloting for some reason, but not the designated mechwarrior being given the title as well.  That's completely foreign to any depiction of feudalism or neofeudalism I've seen.

Is there any canon precedent for property being held communally by an extended family?  That's how I'm understanding the argument here, that whoever in the whole family is the best warrior inherits the mech and the fief as a whole each generation.  Is that what you're saying?  I can't think of any example of that happening.

I think that when it comes to succession disputes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  Sure, the House Lord wants an established succesion so as to prevent fratricidal conflict, but so would lower-ranking nobles.  The danger of fratricide doesn't disappear because the inheritance is a resource-poor continent on some Outback world instead of a whole realm.  In fact, if a family had such a conflict it'd be a pretty good reason to strip them of lands & title and give it to a more deserving ruler.  As it says in Handbook House Davion:
Quote
A noble leader has the right to remove from power nobles subordinate to them, subject to the approval of his or her direct superior, bestowing that noble title upon the successor. In cases where an entire noble family is implicated in wrongdoing or shown to be incapable of governing their landhold, that family may be stripped of its title
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solmanian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #110 on: 13 December 2015, 01:13:06 »
I started a new thread to discuss this:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50252.0
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #111 on: 16 December 2015, 01:17:42 »
Right.  The oldest inherits dad's Marauder, and the youngest gets to rebuild the salvaged Panther he brought home last year.  :-\


I've only just remembered, there's an errant mechwarrior of sorts mentioned in TRO 3058: he drives a Nightstar.

"Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper.  Just read his entry, and, yeah, that's an awesome example.
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Lord greystroke

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #112 on: 16 December 2015, 15:36:27 »
yes "Rattlesnake Jack" Culpepper is a great example of a errant one can imagine the minor pirate bands avoiding the 95 ton assault mech

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #113 on: 17 December 2015, 14:40:54 »
I suppose that's one of the upsides of using a heavier chassis.

Shorter firefights tend to mean more salvage. So even if you only have one assault to hand off to your heir, chances are, you'll have that medium on the side that you've been rebuilding with salvage for your spare.

nightcall

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #114 on: 02 June 2016, 02:22:36 »
I've played a few games, both MW3 and straight Battletech on this premise.
one thing I've used a lot of that doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far is Working Passage; in the periphery, especially the meaner, independent sort of parts, a DropShip on the ground is a very, very rich target for local bandits, who might be able to muster a tank or two or even a mech for that sort of thing. Thus, a wandering mechwarrior with his own machine could very easily find a merchant crew who'd be willing to trade mech protection on the ground for carrying a mech that is likely to be barely 1% of their total cargo space (assuming a Mule or Jumbo, some of the most common cargo haulers way out in the periphery. Even on a Buccaneer, it's only 4%, or less). so that's a good way for toshiro mifune in a mech to get about. hell, I've even had more than a few lance-sized merc units working passage from point-to-point to avoid paying twice as much as the contract's worth in transport fees
Plus, the merchant connection would work somewhat for the supply issues; picking that sort of gear up on their last visit to the TC or FS or wherever they're buying whatever they're carrying out to the independent worlds wouldn't cost much compared to what they make, and would very much improve their chances of picking up some security for their next run.

Comedian

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #115 on: 31 July 2016, 06:53:25 »
....take yor urbie to the mech trainer to level him up to imp. URBIE upgrades to IMP!

I am sooo stealing this for a sig....
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #116 on: 11 October 2017, 19:39:57 »
I know it has been a while but I just saw this vehicle and think something like this would be perfect for a Errant Mechwarrior operating nearly alone out there.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58883.0
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Have 'Mech, Will Travel: Errant MechWarriors
« Reply #117 on: 11 October 2017, 22:09:16 »
Yeah, I think MechWarrior 3 showed how valuable a good MFB can be, but I'm worried something like that becomes a valuable target for raiders and bandits.
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