Author Topic: Request: Can you make  (Read 11946 times)

bblaney

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Request: Can you make
« on: 18 April 2011, 21:42:45 »
Hey guys, I am not too good at making Naval Vessels, but love them immensely and want to know if someone can make me a few.

I would like something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_class_battleship

or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_class_battleship

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford_%28CVN-78%29

and smaller escort ships

I see a battleship as a viable bombardment vessel, but of course gets nuked from orbit, so has a weakness and such

Any thoughts?
Quote from: Nanaki
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

Quote from: HABeas2
That's debatable, but let's face it; some folks gave them a pass because they were big and claimed to be Scottish.

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #1 on: 19 April 2011, 18:46:22 »
Well... first off, the question to ask is if you want an all big gun (for the flash effect and the fun of rolling massive numbers of dice) verse a missile arrangement.   I only ask this because designing these ships is a bit of a math monster due to lack of an easy program to work them up... nothing insurmountable, just wanting to know what is desired before hammering away at the rules and still making mistakes, as earlier examples are prone to displaying.  They are still kinda nebulous on how much of what should be carried to keep one serviceable (as everyone's knowledge is not equal nor information to fill in the gaps readily or easily available).

Also, are you looking for a straight translation of these ships or something that carries the spirit of them forward but modernized (IE:  The WWII Iowa or her 90's configuration, or the Yamato as launched, as refitted when she went down, or with a hypothetical refit if she had survived to the 90's like the Iowa)?

In addition, still waiting to hear back for official word if Thunderbolts can be used as torpedoes or not (Because even a sextuplet launch of Mk 48 ADCAP or , which is rare to say the least, should not be represented by a mere SRT-6 rack or the macross missile massacre that is a LRT-20, mass torpedo salvos worked in the pre-guided days but not in more modern environments).

As for getting nuked from orbit.   If you have a planet valuable enough to warrant a wet navy for coastal support in the event of invasions, we are talking here about a very high value location...  like Terra herself or a major capital world.  If the fighting is heavy enough to justify such a massive ship, there has to be the space equivalent of the shore guns...  fixed and mobile emplacements capable of keeping the big ships out of bombardment range.   Because no one likes trying to support troops moving up the Italian Peninsula and suddenly having half the bloody Alps open up with heavy gauss rifle fire or other such surface to space cannons.  Nothing says no to aerospace assets more than a nice heavy fortress that makes you have to come to it.  Even a low orbit pass might be enough to deter even a vaunted McKenna after she has had a third of her armor belt shredded and in need of a major repair job, not knowing how many more emplacements are left to be unmasked.

Heck!  That might make it a worthwhile campaign all unto itself... trying to push in to knock out a mountain orbital defense instillation or track down a railway... sorry, maglev gun that has been picking off dropships bringing in supplies for weeks.

So yeah, in a situation like that, a good wet navy ship might actually see some fun.

-Edit-

To give an example of what to expect when converting over a pseudo-direct iteration of a gun cruiser might be as follows, a mostly finished thought experiment that needs a bit of polishing up honestly (infact, badly)...  but it gives an idea to see if this is what you might be looking for.

Code: [Select]
Type:  Des Moines Class CA
Chassis:  Large Naval Vessel (Template D)
Weight:  17,300 tons
Equipment Rating:  D

Equipment
Chassis/Controls                 Armored                        4335 tons
Engine:                      ICE                                       4590 tons
          Cruise:      4
          Flank:       6
Fuel:                    10,000 km                                 6885 tons
Armor: (Bar 10)                                                         53.5 tons
Front 80
Front Sides 79/79
Rear Sides 79/79
Rear 80
Main Turrets (3) 77 Each
Secondary Turrets (2) 71 Each

Weapons
Thumper x 3 Turret 1 45 tons
Thumper x 3 Turret 2 45 tons
Thumper x 3 Turret 6 45 tons
Thumper Ammo(540) Body 27 tons
2 AC/5 Turret 3 16 tons
2 AC/5 Turret 5 16 tons
2 AC/5 Front Left 16 tons
2 AC/5 Front Right           16 tons
2 AC/5 Rear Left 16 tons
2 AC/5 Rear Right 16 tons
AC/5 Ammo (720) Body 36 tons
2 LAC/2 Front         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Front           8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear               8 tons
2 LAC/2 Front Right                 8 tons
2 LAC/2 Front Right           8 tons
2 LAC/2 Front Left         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Front Left         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear Right         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear Right         8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear Left           8 tons
2 LAC/2 Rear Left         8 tons
LAC/2 Ammo (1080) Body 24 tons
MG Array (3 MG) Front Right 2 tons
MG Array (3 MG) Front Left 2 tons
MG Array (3 MG) Rear Right 2 tons
MG Array (3 MG) Rear Left 2 tons
MG Ammo (1200) Body 6 tons
Advanced Fire Control

Equipment of Note: Items of Note:   1 Helipad (stern hex), 2 VTOL Hangar Bays (100 tons), MASH (4 Theaters), Communications Equipment (7 tons), Mess Hall, Liquid Cargo Bay (200 ton fuel capacity), 1 Lift Hoist, 2 Searchlights, 2 Vehicle Bays (50 tons each, 2 doors, 1 right, 1 left), Flag Officer Quarters (5 1st class quarters), Infantry Bay (4 foot platoons), Crew Quarters (160 extra crew quarters), Regular Cargo bay (300 tons)

Total Crew: 133 enlisted, 21 officers, 5 Flag officers

That is one of the larger heavy gun cruisers built (the Prinz Eugen is a wee bit bigger at 18,400 full displacement, Tone at 15400 or so, and a Ticonderoga is a mere 9,600 tons... so a slightly enlarged Sovereign might work for you there... just to give you a sense of what could be done) and it wouldn't take much scaling up to reach the mammoth beasts of the sea.

Leave a line...
« Last Edit: 19 April 2011, 19:17:11 by Khymerion »
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

bblaney

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #2 on: 25 April 2011, 07:33:04 »
Yeah I love the big gun concept alot, your CA is nice, thanks. Great job.

The modern 90's version of the Iowa

The Yamato refitted before she sunk

Quote from: Nanaki
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

Quote from: HABeas2
That's debatable, but let's face it; some folks gave them a pass because they were big and claimed to be Scottish.

Marwynn

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #3 on: 26 April 2011, 21:26:14 »
I've been making these for my own project as well, however each and every single one (save for the 100,000 ton one) is submersible. With the "neutrino detectors" being rendered as impractical lostech, you can have these be fusion powered as well without worry of being tracked (on account of neutrinos at least).

Will post finalized versions when I can.

bblaney

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #4 on: 26 April 2011, 22:43:02 »
I've been making these for my own project as well, however each and every single one (save for the 100,000 ton one) is submersible. With the "neutrino detectors" being rendered as impractical lostech, you can have these be fusion powered as well without worry of being tracked (on account of neutrinos at least).

Will post finalized versions when I can.

That is absolutely perfect, so you have a BB, CA, DD and CV that are also submersible? :-)

Sweet
Quote from: Nanaki
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

Quote from: HABeas2
That's debatable, but let's face it; some folks gave them a pass because they were big and claimed to be Scottish.

GOTHIK

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #5 on: 01 January 2012, 18:29:43 »
What program did you use to generate that TRO info, Khymerion?

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #6 on: 01 January 2012, 19:38:06 »
What program did you use to generate that TRO info, Khymerion?

I don't use a purpose built program honestly.   I pretty much use a pad of paper, pencil, a battered old T-85 calculator that I have had since the dawn of time, and then Open Office to type it up while looking at a PDF to try and match up the lay out from it to the typed up version.   I wish I knew programming to be able to make a support vehicle or even an updated vehicle designer in general...   I don't trust HMV or HMA honestly.

Why?   You think I missed a step or miscalculated?   If so, I am more than happy to know where I did so I can correct those mistakes.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

GOTHIK

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #7 on: 01 January 2012, 23:57:16 »
Oh no ... nothing like that at all!  I just really dug the format of your write up ... and I'm even more impressed to learn that all of it was done "long hand".

wolfgar

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #8 on: 09 July 2013, 11:29:01 »
Oh no ... nothing like that at all!  I just really dug the format of your write up ... and I'm even more impressed to learn that all of it was done "long hand".

amen there, hoping SAW or someone else will come up with aerospace BA and proto builders
Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

AchanhiArusa

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #9 on: 20 July 2013, 11:17:17 »
I cover the Gerald R. Ford here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27277.0.html

I have the Iowa lurking somewhere in a spreadsheet next to an updated version of the Montana.
The Patton of wargame design, the Berg himself, is being immortally quoted elsewhere.
"Rich Berg once responded to gamers comments about one of his games, "I make this ****** up, so can you.""

"Back in MY day we played Battletech with figures made of LEAD! POISONED LEAD! And the only PAINT we had was RADIOACTIVE! Why, we lost at least THREE or FOUR dear friends every YEAR to BATTLETECH POISONING! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT!
And we rolled DICE for HOURS to play our games! There was none of this plastic clicky nonsense! Our DICE were radioactive TOO! And we had to roll them for hours and hours and hours to track EVERY SINGLE MISSILE! Why, my some of my friends are STILL rolling dice for their last turn when I left Norman THREE YEARS ago! And I don't plan to move back for at least five years and it STILL won't be my turn! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT.
These kids today."  --Jim Butcher, Dresden Chronicles Author

bblaney

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #10 on: 21 July 2013, 09:05:32 »
I cover the Gerald R. Ford here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27277.0.html

I have the Iowa lurking somewhere in a spreadsheet next to an updated version of the Montana.

Oh I love it

Can you post the Iowa and Montana? :-)

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Nanaki
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

Quote from: HABeas2
That's debatable, but let's face it; some folks gave them a pass because they were big and claimed to be Scottish.

AchanhiArusa

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #11 on: 22 July 2013, 08:46:44 »
This is a fictional "what if?".  What if the Montana Class Battleships had been built and survived to the present day?  Since they were larger than the Iowa Class almost every improvement that was suggested for the Iowa Class could be put on the Montana (except the flight deck, I think I can just squeeze it in).  So it is the ultimate naval battlewagon that never was.  The armor uses the original (not the errated) armor (I agree with DarthMeToo on this one), my excuse is that the errata table applies to land vehicles only and combat naval vehicles and that the original applies to Large naval support.  I don't really follow the Schizotech Battletech technology timeline instead trying to find the closest equivalent to the modern day systems.  I also also interpret the tech eras a little differently from the TechManual.

Montana Class Battleship
Tech/Avail/LegalB-C/X-X-X/X
Chassis TypeE
Tonnage85,000
Spaces885
Spaces Used747
Crew2,252
Structure/Control26,903 (Armored Chassis)
Engine/Trans19,890 (ICE)
Cruise3
Flank5
Heat Sinks0
Range14,000 km
Fuel27,846
Turret42
Weapons and AmmoTonsSpacesLocation
Long Tom (x4)120120T1
Long Tom (x4)120120T2
Long Tom (x4)120120T3
Ammo (Long Tom) 270541Front
Heavy Rifle (x5)405T4
Heavy Rifle (x5)405T5
Heavy Rifle (x5)405T6
Heavy Rifle (x5)405T7
Heavy Rifle Ammo 540901Aft
Thunderbolt-20 (x4)6020T8
AC/5 (x18)144183/Arc
Ammo (AC/5) 500251Aft
Ammo (AC/5) Flak 400201Aft
AC/2 (x60)3606010/Arc
Ammo (AC/2) 2430541Aft
LRM-5 (x2)42Front
Ammo (LRM) 2411Front
SRM-2 (x2)22Aft
Ammo (SRM-2) 50201Aft
Cruise Missile/50 (x4)220220Aft
Ammo (Cruise Missile/50) 328001Aft
Anti-Missile System361/arc
Ammo (AMS) 15601301Aft
LRT-15 (x2)146Front
Ammo (LRT) 1621Front
Chaff Pod (x18)18183/Arc
Cargo and EquipmentTonsSpaces
Cargo 4,698 tons5,220.51
Light Vehicle Bays (x9)4509
Drone Control (x5)51
Lift Hoists (x3)31
Field Kitchens (x37)1111
MASH (x20)241
Comm Equipment151
Infantry Bays (x955 troops)1719
Officers' Quarters (x382)3821
Helipad5005
Advanced Fire Control129.50
Armor Factor:  4339 (BAR 10)1085
ArmorLocationPointsStructure
Front70272
Front/Rear Left/Right70272
Aft70272
Turrets 1-81672
The Patton of wargame design, the Berg himself, is being immortally quoted elsewhere.
"Rich Berg once responded to gamers comments about one of his games, "I make this ****** up, so can you.""

"Back in MY day we played Battletech with figures made of LEAD! POISONED LEAD! And the only PAINT we had was RADIOACTIVE! Why, we lost at least THREE or FOUR dear friends every YEAR to BATTLETECH POISONING! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT!
And we rolled DICE for HOURS to play our games! There was none of this plastic clicky nonsense! Our DICE were radioactive TOO! And we had to roll them for hours and hours and hours to track EVERY SINGLE MISSILE! Why, my some of my friends are STILL rolling dice for their last turn when I left Norman THREE YEARS ago! And I don't plan to move back for at least five years and it STILL won't be my turn! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT.
These kids today."  --Jim Butcher, Dresden Chronicles Author

truetanker

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #12 on: 22 July 2013, 18:10:35 »
While interesting, it detracts from the planned 4- three gun turret. By insisting on T1-T3 as the only 16"/50 gun platforms, you cut off the concept of 360* fire.

So...

Keeping what you put already:

T3- 3x LT
T3- 1x AMS
T4- 3x LT
T4- 1x AMS

T5- 3x LT
T5- 1x AMS
T6- 3x LT
T6- 1x AMS

2- 2x LBX/5 front to reflect 5"/54
3- 2x LBX/5 sides to reflect 5"/54
2- 2x LBX/5 aft to reflect 5"/54

T1-, T2-, T7-, and T8- 4x LAC/2 to reflect the Bofors 40mm AA guns, just check the special munitions. Also what would you say to having a MML-3 added to each turret for minor missile offense? Replaces your LRM-5 and SRM-2 packs. The Cruise Missile-50s are neat, but why add a T-Bolt missile as well? I'd rather go straight Arrow and alot more of them since they can now do AAA as well as Crocket rounds ala Tomahawk. And what about MGA's? The Machine Gun Array with 3 standard MGs 1x per arc sounds nice.

TT
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AchanhiArusa

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #13 on: 22 July 2013, 22:17:23 »
While interesting, it detracts from the planned 4- three gun turret. By insisting on T1-T3 as the only 16"/50 gun platforms, you cut off the concept of 360* fire.

So...

Keeping what you put already:

T3- 3x LT
T3- 1x AMS
T4- 3x LT
T4- 1x AMS

T5- 3x LT
T5- 1x AMS
T6- 3x LT
T6- 1x AMS

2- 2x LBX/5 front to reflect 5"/54
3- 2x LBX/5 sides to reflect 5"/54
2- 2x LBX/5 aft to reflect 5"/54

T1-, T2-, T7-, and T8- 4x LAC/2 to reflect the Bofors 40mm AA guns, just check the special munitions. Also what would you say to having a MML-3 added to each turret for minor missile offense? Replaces your LRM-5 and SRM-2 packs. The Cruise Missile-50s are neat, but why add a T-Bolt missile as well? I'd rather go straight Arrow and alot more of them since they can now do AAA as well as Crocket rounds ala Tomahawk. And what about MGA's? The Machine Gun Array with 3 standard MGs 1x per arc sounds nice.

TT

Let me play around with that.  I was playing around with the various missile types that had been placed or planned to be placed on the Iowa.  I'll get back with your changes.  Oh, more stats to play with.  /grin
The Patton of wargame design, the Berg himself, is being immortally quoted elsewhere.
"Rich Berg once responded to gamers comments about one of his games, "I make this ****** up, so can you.""

"Back in MY day we played Battletech with figures made of LEAD! POISONED LEAD! And the only PAINT we had was RADIOACTIVE! Why, we lost at least THREE or FOUR dear friends every YEAR to BATTLETECH POISONING! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT!
And we rolled DICE for HOURS to play our games! There was none of this plastic clicky nonsense! Our DICE were radioactive TOO! And we had to roll them for hours and hours and hours to track EVERY SINGLE MISSILE! Why, my some of my friends are STILL rolling dice for their last turn when I left Norman THREE YEARS ago! And I don't plan to move back for at least five years and it STILL won't be my turn! But we didn't know any better, and we LIKED IT.
These kids today."  --Jim Butcher, Dresden Chronicles Author

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #14 on: 07 November 2013, 00:49:13 »
You know, I remember posting in a discussion about a new modern fire support cruiser using some of the recently discarded or current force systems.

Would you be able to simulate something like the Crusader 155mm system (10.4 rounds a minute) of which a single tube can fire so that up to 8 rounds can land on a target at the same TOT.

Also sporting something akin to MLRS, either a turret like the M270's two sixpacks or HIMARS's single six pack using the guided rockets hitting out to 60 klicks (120 mapsheets) with either cluster rounds or explosive . . .

Oh yeah . . .

For totally different tack, anyone make a BT Support Vehicle version of the Liberty ships?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #15 on: 07 November 2013, 03:19:30 »


For totally different tack, anyone make a BT Support Vehicle version of the Liberty ships?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

Yes...   Yes someone can.
Code: [Select]
ype:  Large Naval  (Type D template)
Tech Base:  Inner Sphere
Weight:  14,245 tons

Length:  7 hexes Depth:  2 Hexes Height: 2 Hexes -3 to Hit

Item Slots: 177

Structural Tech Rating: D

Base Chassis Rating: .17 Base Engine Rating: .009
Chassis Weight: 2422 tons
Chassis Cost: 6,055,000

Engine Type: I.C.E. Technology: D Movement Factor: 8
Cruise: 2 Flank: 3
Engine Weight: 1538 tons
Range: 12000 km Fuel Tonnage: 1846 tons
Engine Cost: 7,690,000

Minimum Crew: 7 Enlisted, 6 Gunners, 3 Officers

Additional Crew: 14 Enlisted, 2 Officers, 28 Passengers (steerage) 96 tons
Cost: 410,000


Armor: 24.3 tons of armor (540 pts)
BAR 7
Fore 67
Fore Sides 67/67
Aft Sides 67
Aft 67
Turret A 69
Turret B 69
Cost: 162,000


Weapons
AC-5 Aft Turret 8 tons
AC-5 Forecastle Turret 8 tons
Fore ammo stores 60 rounds 3 tons
Aft ammo stores 60 rounds 3 tons
1 MG Front Left .5 ton
1 MG Front Right .5 ton
1 MG Rear Left .5 ton
1 MG Rear Right .5 ton
MG Ammo 400 rounds 2 tons
Fire Control Weight:  Advanced 2 tons


A Turret weight 1 ton
B Turret weight 1 ton

Weapon Costs: 336000

Cargo Capacity: 8266 tons 4 Doors (2 Right, 2 Left), 4 Light Hoists (2 Right, 2 Left)

Additional Equipment: 4 Lift Hoists (12 tons),  4Cargo Bay Doors, 1 Ton of Communication Equipment, 6 Maritime Lifeboats

Equipment Cost: 244000

Final Cost Multiplier: 1.14

Final Cost: 16,982,580 cbills

"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #16 on: 07 November 2013, 18:54:04 »
Thanks for this, couple of quick questions . . .

Aside from the AA & Fire Control, the ship is as cheap as can be?

7 hexes long, 2 hexes wide, 2 levels deep (below waterline) and 2 levels above waterline?  Total of 4 levels in height?

How does this stack up with other surface cargo ships?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #17 on: 08 November 2013, 03:31:05 »
Okay, this is the problems I know I had with this...

Well, she is the right tonnage but a little longer than her historical counterpart (it's dimensions are more tied to the hull template I used to construct it).   

Her range is not as impressive but the amount of fuel needed to do a 37K kilometer range is almost prohibitive.   

Her cargo capacity is off by 2K tons but with external cargo (strapping it onto the decks), that can be made up.   

She is a bit faster than her historical counterpart at speed 2/3 but I was assuming it's cruising speed would be 20km/h, her historical crossing speed) and thus went with that.   It could be reworked to a 1/2 speed if you want to run the engines at flank speed the entire time and free up some weight/lower cost.

She has one more deck gun (fore) than her historical.   That could be dropped for some kind of AA gun on the forecastle but since the AC-5 is versatile, I went with it.

They are actually fire controlled instead being still hand cranked.  I would assume by the 31st or 32nd centuries, someone might want to throw some cash at fire control, even if the armor is thin  and only BAR 7.

In summery, it is not a 100% faithful reconstruction of a Liberty Ship but when I get some more time, I can get a calculator and the hand sheets out to redo the ship.

Now, as for how does it compare to other surface ships currently published?   As there is only the Kaleen Bay and the Anastaska Maro, it compares favorably.   At nearly twice the tonnage, you are only gaining twice the armor and 1,200 tons of cargo space with a cruising speed of 3/5 instead of 2/3...  on a small margin if you are looking only at cruising speeds and not tearing up the engines at always running at flank speed.   You are also losing approximately 4K range by going with the Kaleen Bay/Anastaska Maro's 8K range, which puts it also into Liberty's favor with it's 12K range.     You get more passenger space, a MASH hospital, and 4 vehicle bays on a Anastaska Maro, a true luxury on a cargo ship.

And as usual, since it is out of a technical manual... they don't bother to give you a price tag on anything (lazy)... a price comparison is going to be difficult.

So while I am sure I could find more ways to cut prices on the Liberty ship, compared to it's only counterpart....  I think it is about as close to bare bones as one is going to get.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #18 on: 08 November 2013, 13:14:58 »
No no no no . . . it is great.  I was looking for something similar to use for a scenario, and this does it.  IMO, all your differences are just fine- 2/3 makes sense just as you mentioned- my only question there is would a FCE make more sense?  I do not have the rules for how to make support ships so I wanted to know some of your decisions on the back end.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #19 on: 08 November 2013, 13:43:48 »
Ah, when I did up the original Victory Ship, it was to try to get as close to the real one as I could manage for purposes of getting a freighter for pretty much exactly the reason you are wanting one...   something for a Neptune to go hunting after.   Thus, I never really considered an Electric (fuel cell) engine.

Fuel Cell engines for support ships have an advantage of having a 1.0 multiplier at tech D (as I wanted it to be a semi-modern, still maintainable by the world that built them hull) instead of a 1.5 multiplier in terms of weight of the engine for a ICE engine.   So you might see the engine for the ship drop a considerable amount in terms of tonnage.   Good thing, right?   In some regards.

The counter to this savings in weight comes from the fact that fuel bunkering is going to be killer in terms of range.   At Tech D, an ICE engine need 1% of it's weight in fuel per 100 km while the FCE engine requires 1.5% of it's weight to be able to do the same distance.    Thus, the 12km range I settled on as a viable compromise would see the liberty ship you see above paying 120% of it's engine weight to fuel bunkers while the FCE will see 180% of it's weight dedicated towards fuel bunkers.     The switch to a FCE engine would only net an appoximate 500 tons in weight in terms of engine+fuel range... which could add 3K to range over the ICE engine if the saved weight was poured into the fuel tanks.

Not too bad actually.   Or if you were wanting to add a few luxuries, like that MASH theater or a couple of light vehicle bays for dedicated launches/support vehicles...  actually there is a good deal that you do with 500 tons.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #20 on: 08 November 2013, 14:39:55 »
Interesting, and once again I thank you for your answers.  Not looking for a sub target actually, I was more interested in moving some armor, infantry, VTOLs, maybe some support air craft, supplies and of course mechs across a world without using dropships.  Both sides in a conflict have pretty much spent their aerospace forces and the last time a dropship flotilla returned to this world a Union was destoyed as it was making re-entry with a heavy company.  The other DS are combat inop due to damage- a result that suprised me.

So I looked to surface naval vessels on this water world to move troops to another continent.  I just wanted an idea of what could move, which you have given me.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #21 on: 08 November 2013, 15:12:15 »
You can definitely move a good deal with the one canon freighter and this to help round out a freighter flotilla.    Perhaps a civilian container ship or a RORO that were conscripted into service, having survived this long into a conflict.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #22 on: 17 June 2015, 15:50:31 »
Hey Khymerion, I know you put up the freighter for me . . . and talked in other threads but . . .

How hard would it be to make a naval warship loaded with Cruise Missiles & Long Toms?  As primary bombardment weapons?  What about SubCap Lasers for orbital defense?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #23 on: 17 June 2015, 16:15:49 »
I can get you a cruise missile submarine, I built one of those in another thread.    How big a warship are you looking at?   I know I built a Sovremenny in another thread that was as close an approximation...  but I could do it easily with enough tonnage.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #24 on: 17 June 2015, 16:37:44 »
Sort of thinking of something that fits in between the Rapier and a few of the other ships already in existance.  Naval ships make better weapons platforms for orbital defense than a stationary station, and I would think better than a railmount system.

Design ponderings . . . two SubCap lasers?  Two large CM launchers but how many reloads . . . I think the largest CMs so it has the most range, but does having multiple launchers matter more?  Some Long Toms for for shore to shore fire support . . . maybe if it is post Jihad, some ELRMs with ArtV?  Three light vehicle cubicles, two for hovercraft to launch and one to serve as the repair/launch for VTOLs?  With cargo space for multiple VTOLs and a modern IRL destroyer type flight deck?

Would this be something we would look to sport BT Drone tech?  A company of marines and maybe a squad or two of medium BA?  Can surface naval vessels mount and use Screen Launchers like blackwater naval ships?

Actually, how many Aerospace naval systems can surface ships use?  nC3?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

truetanker

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #25 on: 17 June 2015, 18:59:06 »
Wow!  :o

This thread is still alive?

Hey AchanhiArusa!

Ever made that " Mark II " Montana amd if you have, could we have a look-see?

TT

PS: Anyone in the mood to create a Star League / Clan take on a Sub APC that an carry up to 6 tons of Infantry? 5/8 or faster?
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Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #26 on: 18 June 2015, 02:27:30 »
Oooof...  2 SCL and a pair of CM launchers?   Tall order.   Let me get my stuff out when I have time and make a few cursory glances.   Might end up having to go with SCL/1s due to the constraint of tonnage to crit slots with a similar problem for CMs but won't know till I get going.   I'll keep upping the tonnage till I get the bare minimum to work and get back to you.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Colt Ward

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #27 on: 18 June 2015, 02:46:17 »
What I am sort of curious about is making a ship that can provide some orbital defense fire but still be on call for long range shore bombardment.  If it is cheaper to have a smaller ship and split that sort of thing alright, it is sort of a thought exercise and I thought I would ask here since you have the spreadsheets.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Khymerion

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #28 on: 18 June 2015, 08:19:45 »
No spreadsheets here..  this is entirely old school pencil and paper work.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Psyckosama

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Re: Request: Can you make
« Reply #29 on: 18 June 2015, 14:29:43 »
No spreadsheets here..  this is entirely old school pencil and paper work.

Someone needs to make an up to date spreadsheet or even better yet a Java driven creator.

 

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