Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza

[Dragon Cat]

Yup I'd agree Istal which is why I wish they had let us die during the Jihad a proper statement a Clan willing to die for the Inner Sphere surats a proper ending

[GhostCat]

Yup I'd agree Istal which is why I wish they had let us die during the Jihad a proper statement a Clan willing to die for the Inner Sphere surats a proper ending

I don't want a 'proper ending', why does Clan Nova Cat have to end?  One of the things I like about CNC is how it somehow survives every effort to destroy it.

What else is there?  Well, it doesn't try to overwhelm its opponents by over populating its occupation zone.  Clan Nova Cat tries to follow its own path even when it doesn't conform or agree with other Clans that have no tolerance for independent thinking.  I like stories about Heroes that fight because they are right, and they don't always win.  But they win just often enough to be remembered by the next bunch that has to struggle just to live another day.

Well, fighting against impossible odds all the time might seem stupid to most of us, but the entire Clan Nova Cat has been pretty much Solahma since they were Abjured, surviving countless Trials of Annihilation, Grievance, and Refusal.

So, forgive me when I laugh after hearing the Draconis Combine declare that it has Exterminated Clan Nova Cat.

GC

[False Son]

Well, the Spirit Cats continue on.  It may not be in the same form as their old Nova Cat days, but you have to admit, even cultural survival is a better fate than some of their clan brethren.  You could be the Fire Mandrils, killed off unceromoniously and without a final act of spite.  The Irece Nova Cats at least died fighting while their Spirit Cat cousins were doing their part to aid in their society's survival.  Loyalty has been the ultimate underpinning of Nova Cat prosperity.  With the 2nd Star League they chose wrong.  With the Dragon they chose wrong.  With the Republic they chose wrong.  Let us hope this time with the League they chose right.

And yet, a spot of regret.  The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure.  Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance.  What a pity.  Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine.  Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace.  One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.

[tbrminsanity]

Well, the Spirit Cats continue on.  It may not be in the same form as their old Nova Cat days, but you have to admit, even cultural survival is a better fate than some of their clan brethren.  You could be the Fire Mandrils, killed off unceromoniously and without a final act of spite.  The Irece Nova Cats at least died fighting while their Spirit Cat cousins were doing their part to aid in their society's survival.  Loyalty has been the ultimate underpinning of Nova Cat prosperity.  With the 2nd Star League they chose wrong.  With the Dragon they chose wrong.  With the Republic they chose wrong.  Let us hope this time with the League they chose right.

And yet, a spot of regret.  The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure.  Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance.  What a pity.  Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine.  Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace.  One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.

A lot of BT factions seem to die unceremoniously.  If the writers don't like you, you will be wiped from the pages of history.

[roosterboy]

A lot of BT factions seem to die unceremoniously.  If the writers don't like you, you will be wiped from the pages of history.

The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.

[Dragon Cat]

The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.

Can't disagree there if only factions that were liked were around it would be called PeaceTech as Boone would be willing to fight for risk of losing a favoured faction  :D

[Istal_Devalis]

On the plus side, we can now use zombie mechs with an extra bit of irony.

[tbrminsanity]

The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.

While that may be true, I noticed through out MW:DA that CNC and CSC seemed to have a huge target painted on their back (along with many of the other Splinter Factions for that matter).  WizKids gave the illusion that the tournament results would have an impact on the story of MW:DA, but the literature didn't back it up.  CNC and CSC repeatedly won tournament after tournament, yet in the attached literature faced setback after setback.  I always wonder the reason that CNC demise was not decided by a tournament because WizKids was worried that CNC would have likely won that tournament and as a result they would have had to do even more handwavium instead to kill them off.

Side rant:
While I don't expect sci-fi to be 100% accurate to real world physics, I do expect them to follow the in-universe narrative rules.  Handwavium is any act by writers to force an outcome that can't emerge organically, and IMHO derails the narrative of the universe and breaks the feeling of consistency and flow of the story.  The death of Clan Smoke Jaguar followed a consistent narrative flow till the Trial of Refusal, but the creation of Clan Jade Wolf didn't.  Too much handwavium.  This is why I think certain things get more backlash within the BT community than others (LAMs vs Protomechs).

[roosterboy]

While that may be true, I noticed through out MW:DA that CNC and CSC seemed to have a huge target painted on their back (along with many of the other Splinter Factions for that matter).  WizKids gave the illusion that the tournament results would have an impact on the story of MW:DA, but the literature didn't back it up.

While fan actions driving the story is a nice dream, it's not all that practical in the real world, as Catalyst has found out. Too many variables. Storylines are planned out years in advance and there's too great a risk of weird outcomes and blind luck derailing carefully laid plans and arcs.

I always wonder the reason that CNC demise was not decided by a tournament because WizKids was worried that CNC would have likely won that tournament and as a result they would have had to do even more handwavium instead to kill them off.

The reason CNC's demise wasn't decided by tournament is because WizKids didn't get that far in their storyline. ;)

Side rant:
While I don't expect sci-fi to be 100% accurate to real world physics, I do expect them to follow the in-universe narrative rules.  Handwavium is any act by writers to force an outcome that can't emerge organically, and IMHO derails the narrative of the universe and breaks the feeling of consistency and flow of the story.  The death of Clan Smoke Jaguar followed a consistent narrative flow till the Trial of Refusal, but the creation of Clan Jade Wolf didn't.  Too much handwavium.  This is why I think certain things get more backlash within the BT community than others (LAMs vs Protomechs).

Problem is, what one person considers "handwavium" another person considers a completely logical development. There is no objective and agreed-upon standard.

[WONC]

And yet, a spot of regret.  The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure.  Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance.  What a pity.  Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine.  Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace.  One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.

My only hope is that, if/when those revelations come to light, it is after a washed-out Nova Cat warrior-turned-civilian manages to brutally destroy both of them, and the truth comes out in the wash.

I'll just admit to feeling petty about the whole thing, but I want the snakes to bleed for this, which is still a sight better than what I want for the Bears, but yeah...

[False Son]

My only hope is that, if/when those revelations come to light, it is after a washed-out Nova Cat warrior-turned-civilian manages to brutally destroy both of them, and the truth comes out in the wash.

I'll just admit to feeling petty about the whole thing, but I want the snakes to bleed for this, which is still a sight better than what I want for the Bears, but yeah...

Perhaps as a biased Combine fan, I give the Dracs a bit of slack this time around.  The demise of the Nova Cats comes down to the actions of traitors.  I can't say for sure that the Nova Cats believed in the Combine down to the last warrior fighting, but they did side with the legitimate heir to the Dragon Throne.  Their deaths were a loss for the Combine, not a victory.  The more I dwell on it, the less I am happy even about the DCMS's success against the AFFS, knowing a traitor is at the helm.  Everyone is doing what they think is best for the Dragon, but genocide and murder of the legitimate Kurita line is squarely in ego territory rather than necessary evil.  This is especially true once it is considered that Vincent Kurita had eventually consented to war for the Dieron region.

[GhostCat]

Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry?  Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party.  Have Fun With That.

GC

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry?  Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party.  Have Fun With That.

GC

What's the old saying "Fool me once. shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

If they want t start a third Dominion-Combine war it won't end well for either side. This late in the timeline it will give the Fed Suns a bit of breathing room, but it might smash a lot of units on both borders before someone says stop.

[Istal_Devalis]

If the DC and GB's want to smash heads again, I'll be happy to sit on the sideline for once while egging each side on to increased levels of violence. Feel free to let the WMD's fly.  O:-)

[False Son]

Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry?  Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

Oh, not at all.  On the other hand, it was a pretty bad period for the Dragon.  We all know the soldiers of the DCMS are loyal to a fault.  It is a tragedy that murderous conspirators like Bhatia and Toranaga are running the show.  My point is that the Dragon is likely headed for a fall, but I certainly don't wish genocide or the like on them.  We've seen this kind of behavior before with the Dragoons dependants.  Go after the guilty parties, because the rank and file DCMS soldier will defend his master, no matter how heinous to the bitter end.  I personally hope the O5P can finally behead Bhatia and the ISF's stranglehold on the DCMS.  Then Toranaga gets his from either Tormark or a Nova Cat survivor.

The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party.  Have Fun With That.

GC

This is actually of some interest to me.  We now know both parties are willing to resort to genocide.  I can only wonder how well that could turn out.  Unfortunately for the Ghost Bears, the Rasalhague population wasn't happy about genocide the last time it was tried, and that was against other clanners.  Would the Ghost Bears find themselves isolated if they resorted to genocide?  Or, is such a policy unrealistic against an enemy as numerous as a Successor State?  The Dragon, meanwhile, seems to have no qualms.  Not even a blip of guilt like the Kentares Massacre.  Maybe clanners, even allied ones don't merit the same consideration as FedSuns civilians.

[GhostCat]

Yea regrets and guilty feelings are rare for the Dragon regarding events like Kentares IV but there's another side to that coin.  Revenge, and life long vendetta, which means Fear in great big letters if somehow they don't all die.  The Honor of a Samurai should be respected, but small breaches of eticate or awkwardness should be forgiven, because the alternative is having to face the legend of the 47 Ronin.

Toranaga won't see them coming, won't know if they are under every rock or tree he can see.  He won't know when they will strike or if they are waiting for just the right moment.  What He will know is this, They are coming, just for Him, and no one else.

Can he exterminate all the Nova/Spirit Cats in Republic Space?  I think it's more than he can manage.

GC

[roosterboy]

That's assuming any surviving Nova Cats from the Republic would even be interested in revenge on the Combine. I'm not sure I see it. Fight harder against them and show no mercy should they ever meet on the battlefield? Sure. Go out of their way to take down Toranaga and/or the Combine? Nah.

[Pa Weasley]

I would imagine any still in the Republic at this point, if anything, would be mostly geared toward the survival of the Republic.

[False Son]

That's assuming any surviving Nova Cats from the Republic would even be interested in revenge on the Combine. I'm not sure I see it. Fight harder against them and show no mercy should they ever meet on the battlefield? Sure. Go out of their way to take down Toranaga and/or the Combine? Nah.

Stranger things have happened.  Michi Noketsuna went out of his way.  Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.

BTW Roosterboy, barely related, but is Wahib Fusili still active?

[roosterboy]

Also:

Can he exterminate all the Nova/Spirit Cats in Republic Space?  I think it's more than he can manage.

But why would he want to? Toranaga didn't go after the Cats in the Combine until they gave him a reason to do so. He was apparently perfectly willing to let them garrison Dieron and Irece prefectures while he went after the Feddies. It was the actions of the Cats themselves that brought down the fury upon their heads. Toranaga has no reason to go after any Nova Cats who aren't active traitors to the Combine.

And Clanners should totally understand the actions of the Combine in putting down the Nova Cats hard. For all intents and purposes, Toranaga conducted a Trial of Annihilation against the Cats for their own ill-advised actions, much as was done against the Wolverines and Widowmakers for their transgressions. If anyone should understand, it would be Clanners. I just don't see any Clan warriors, not even surviving Nova Cats in the Republic or Protectorate, being all torn up by thoughts of revenge for what happened to the Cats. Yeah, it sucks that their death came at the hands of Inner Sphere surats, but that's what happens when you debase yourself as the Cats did by shacking up with the Combine.

Stranger things have happened.  Michi Noketsuna went out of his way.

Michi Noketsuna wasn't a Clanner or someone who had been separated from his ancestral culture for decades. And that ancestral culture is one that looks favorably upon and even valorizes such actions; Clan culture doesn't.

Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.

Now, him I could easily see being pissed as hell that he was denied whatever the hell it is he wanted to do with Katana. But that would likely manifest as infiltrating ISF headquarters on New Samarkand to try and find her, if she's still alive. Rescue her and weasel his way into her life even more. Maybe kill Bhatia along the way. But go after Toranaga for revenge? Eh, I just don't see it. After all, Tormark rebelled against the Coordinator; what was Toranaga to do, not go after her just because some psycho he didn't even know about had his own plans?

BTW Roosterboy, barely related, but is Wahib Fusili still active?

No idea. If it hasn't been written about, it's not known. I can't recall off the top of my head what his disposition was at the end of Dragon Rising. Was he in the throne room when Vincent went boom?

[Archangel]

Stranger things have happened.  Michi Noketsuna went out of his way.  Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.

Michi's quest for revenge was against individuals not against the Draconis Combine and the DCMS as a whole.  The surviving Nova Cats are very well aware that they don't have the strength to take on even a fraction of the DCMS and hope to survive.  Right now their focus is on ensuring their long-term survival.  However, once they have grown stronger, that does not mean that if the opportunity arises to strike at the Combine that they would ignore it.

[wolfgar]

The cats dont have to go against the entirety of the combine, just a limited profile of targets of those that wronged them directly.  The ones whose orders the "loyal soldiers" of the combine followed. Those two who orchestrated the whole issue. As for how much how long they are willing to wait. The movie rushed the issue but the recorded legend (as I remember it) said they waited many years to extract their justice.

[roosterboy]

But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.

[GhostCat]

But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.

Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor.  They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers.  Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be.  Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.

Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.

Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.

GC

[Pa Weasley]

Sometimes the best revenge is just surviving, then cracking open a cold one and laughing maniacally whilest those who would destroy you rend themselves asunder. Maybe also enjoying a nice turkey sandwich. 

[Archangel]

The cats dont have to go against the entirety of the combine, just a limited profile of targets of those that wronged them directly.  The ones whose orders the "loyal soldiers" of the combine followed. Those two who orchestrated the whole issue. As for how much how long they are willing to wait. The movie rushed the issue but the recorded legend (as I remember it) said they waited many years to extract their justice.

Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor.  They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers.  Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be.  Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.

Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.

Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.

GC

And how exactly are they to take revenge?  Michi was a veteran DCMS officer who was dealing with a culture he had lived in for his entire life.  The surviving Nova Cats number less than a cluster of which few, if any, are familiar with the DC culture and have no intelligence apparatus that can get the intelligence they need.  Another consideration is the fact that while they took revenge against the Ghost Bears for their actions against the Nova Cats during the First Combine Dominion War, they did nothing to take revenge against either the Jade Falcons or the Wolves for their actions after the Nova Cat Abjuration?

The surviving Nova Cats are simply being realistic.  They have no serious chance of avenging themselves at this point in time.  They need time to rebuild and grow in strength.  Once they have ensured their long-term survival and reestablished themselves as a power to be feared instead of the weakened kitten whose claws were clipped by Stone and the Combine, then they can indulge themselves in some good old-fashioned revenge.

[roosterboy]

Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor.  They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers.  Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be.  Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.

Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.

Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.

That's weird. You'd think I'd remember saying something that even slightly resembled any of this.

But I don't.

Huh.

[WONC]

But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.

Indeed it is a stretch, and fairly easily written off as wish fulfillment of Nova Cat fans, but I draw upon the example of Minoru and his personal vendetta against his sister's murderer. Now Minoru was a Kurita first, which tempered his personality at its formation, but he was also one of the most enthusiastic Nova Cats the Clan ever saw. After decades of drawing on both his DNA and his example, I wouldn't put it past any surviving Mystic or Warrior washout survivor taking it upon themselves to have the last laugh for their dead Clan.

Also, grudges, be they revenged or not, are something of a Nova Cat thing. That's one of the reasons the Cats kept pissing off the Bears, for good or for ill. They're not the Smoke Jaguars level of angry, but they are still very much an aggressively minded Clan with a long memory for slights. A lot of that got lost over the years as they took on their own distinctive flavor (beyond being a partial clone of the Jags with a slightly different theme, which brings up an interesting line of thought about how they mirror the Steel Vipers in their inception, as well as their fate; I digress, though), but any Clan that could maintain a century-long feud with the Jaguars, and manage to stay toe to toe with those beloved psychos, definitely is more tenacious than they might initially appear.

[Istal_Devalis]

But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.

And the centuries long feud with the Smoke Jaguars was born completely out of practicality and rationalism? They're still a Clan, and feuds are a thing. Not that I think they're going to whole heartedly make killing the DC off one of their goals beyond revenge fantasy, but making it difficult for the DC when they have the chance? Sure thing. And if the DC shogun does something that makes him an easy target, headhunter strikes are a thing too.

[Archangel]

Indeed it is a stretch, and fairly easily written off as wish fulfillment of Nova Cat fans, but I draw upon the example of Minoru and his personal vendetta against his sister's murderer. Now Minoru was a Kurita first, which tempered his personality at its formation, but he was also one of the most enthusiastic Nova Cats the Clan ever saw. After decades of drawing on both his DNA and his example, I wouldn't put it past any surviving Mystic or Warrior washout survivor taking it upon themselves to have the last laugh for their dead Clan.

Minoru was hunting the assassin in his home state with a sympathetic public and the ability to commandeer DCMS forces.  Somehow I don't think that any Republic Nova Cat would be able to claim the same advantages.

Also, grudges, be they revenged or not, are something of a Nova Cat thing.

Not sure where you got this idea because they didn't hold onto their grudges any more than any other Clan.  For most of its existence, while individual units held grudges against other Clans, the only feud they maintained was the one with the Smoke Jaguars (and there were plenty of other clans that shared their sentiments towards the Smoke Jaguars).  Their tendency to ignore logic or emotions in favor of visions made them allies of questionable worth.  After all, they may be allies for decades but could potentially turn on their allies if a vision instructs them to and vice versa enemies could potentially become allies.