Author Topic: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST  (Read 34497 times)

cavingjan

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #660 on: 14 May 2017, 15:57:53 »
Primitive V was the last set of units I've entered. Corrections have been done. Judging by the volume of the change log, adding a step of logging it manually here wouldn't be realistic. I know at one point in time I was averaging 10 changes a day if the log was any indication of work and I was only one person.

Sorry.

I'm in the habit of getting a fresh AS image each time just to make sure I'm up to date.

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #661 on: 14 May 2017, 15:59:16 »
Based on personal observations, the main coverage holes right now are:

*3039 and 3050 (IS/SL) units don't extend past the Early Republic
*Zero Clan tables exist for anything pre-Clan Invasion.
*There is no public data for the Age of War
*The status of TRO:3057 units remains in limbo

There is still some work to be done on non-TRO sources, but I suspect a good portion of that is marking dozens of units as extinct an era or two past when they debuted.

cavingjan

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #662 on: 14 May 2017, 16:06:27 »
Very good observations. I burned out before getting the 39/50 IS units. Warships aren't my strength. PreInvasion clan may appear when Golden Century comes out.

I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #663 on: 15 May 2017, 11:11:34 »
Does Morgan Kell's personal Archer really have an intro date of 2474? Seems like it got the ARC-2R's by mistake. I would imagine the custom would have originated in the 3010s?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5809/archer-arc-2r-morgan


I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.

That's the impression I got from poking at the Age of War stuff for some personal use projects. About two-thirds of the mechs are pretty cut and dry. There are very few indications that many of the primitives or a number of the house designs (e.g. Hammerhands, Koschei, Crossbow) found their way out of the initial designers' hands with a few exceptions. The first wave of introtech designs largely pops up between the late 2400s and early 2500s that are already widely dispersed. You get hints of mass-proliferation of Hegemony designs from both the Talos' and Hector's writeups, but to where and how quickly is, at best, inference and guesswork.

cavingjan

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #664 on: 15 May 2017, 12:32:51 »
Morgan drove a stock 2R archer so yes it does share the same dates. I think it has the same faction data too if I remember correctly.


DarkJaguar

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #666 on: 17 May 2017, 23:27:15 »
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.
The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.

I don't mean offense in questioning your decision, but VRT isn't solely a quirk.  It's a special Ability, defined on page 109 of the Alpha Strike Core Rule Book, it's usage is further explained on page 103 of the core rule book, where it is explicitly called out as a special ability, and it's conversion rules are listed in the Alpha Strike Companion on page 133 in the 'Battletech Conversions" rules, right after UMU and right before VTX#.  Additionally, while VRT may be listed in the quirks section, it is listed there right after Trailer Hitch and searchlight (Page 64 ASC).  Trailer hitch and searchlight are both a design quirk AND special ability (HTC or SRCH)  and have been added to cards (link to units with HTC special ability)(link to units with SRCH special ability), so to say that VRT can't be done because it's a "quirk" is insufficient in my opinion, with how well documented it is, and with the core book explicitly calling it a special ability, and providing rules for it as part of the core rules (which do not even include quirks).
In short, I ask you to reconsider, and having VRT added to the aforementioned unit's card, as well as any other unit that can be pointed at as meeting the criteria as per the conversion rules (I don't know of any other unit that has this, personally, but if I find one, I'll let you know).
« Last Edit: 17 May 2017, 23:40:04 by DarkJaguar »

Scotty

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #667 on: 18 May 2017, 00:08:37 »
Cost the unit appropriately.  The Special is defined in the usual place; I suggest the exception to be treat VRT as always in play.  That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely.  Given how much easier it is to edit the MUL than it is to issue errata for a book that most people might realize had changed, my preference is for the former.
Bingo.  Same as all the other quirks.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #668 on: 18 May 2017, 13:34:17 »
Faction Availability on the Bandit Hovercraft base and variants:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3782/bandit-hovercraft-base

- List Wolf's Dragoons as the only one with access.

- Most if not all variants list Mercenaries, and later Kell Hounds from Fed Com Civil War as having access.

It stands to reason, that the same faction availability that applies to the variants should apply to the <Base> model.

Fix: Change FCCW and Jihad Faction Availability on the Base to match availability on variants.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #669 on: 23 May 2017, 20:52:59 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2186/minotaur-standard

Errata had already been issued for the Record Sheet, but the Unit Card doesn't match the TRO entry (TRO3060 p.203)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=4021.msg272449#msg272449

Per the ASC p.90-141
Weapon Values should be 2/2/0 [0.7x2 or 1.4/1.4/0 for 2 ERML]
PV should increase to 12 PV (a +3 increase from the change in damage)
...everything else looks good.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #670 on: 24 May 2017, 02:59:16 »
Rim Worlds Republic
Missing the Aegis Cruiser from both lists. We know that at least one existed from Historical Turning Points: New Dallas. How do I remember this? The ship was named the RWS Tigershark.  ;D
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #671 on: 24 May 2017, 09:27:19 »
Asshur Fast Reconnaissance Vehicle has TAG as an AS ability but does not have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/135/asshur-fast-reconnaissance-vehicle-standard

Asshur Artillery Spotter does not have TAG as an AS ability but does have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/133/asshur-artillery-spotter-standard

Solution: remove TAG from the former, add TAG to the latter


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #672 on: 30 May 2017, 07:52:35 »
Colt Medium Fighter (From Experimental Technical Readout: Primitives V)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7415/colt-medium-fighter

ISSUE:
MUL entry for the Colt Medium Fighter (SRM) Variant is missing. The SRM variant is noted in the original entry in XTRO: P5, with no record sheet published. 

SOLUTION: Add missing page for fluff variant, only difference from the original Colt Medium Fighter is straight swap of LRM5s for SRM4 on either wing and LRM ammo is also straight switch for 1 ton of SRM ammo.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #673 on: 19 June 2017, 17:12:41 »
ISSUE: Bear Cub and Bear Cub 3 PV Incorrect. The Bear Cub 2 is fine though.

Currently, the PV for the standard is showing as 22PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

while the 3 is showing at 20PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/316/bear-cub-3

This makes no sense on its face because the 3 does MORE damage than the standard, and is identical in all other respects, but it costs LESS PV.

SOLUTION:

According to the Alpha Strike PV spreadsheet that Xotl provided for evaluating the upcoming PV revision, the current PV's for those units are 19PV for the Bear Cub Standard, and 20PV for the Bear Cub 3. I double-checked and those numbers seem correct.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 9 [3+3+0] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF0*] 0.5 = 10
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 10 + 8.5 = 18.5 round normally to 19PV.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 10 [3+3+1] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF1] 1 = 11.5
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 11.5 + 8.5 = 20PV

Xotl

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #674 on: 19 June 2017, 17:26:19 »
As best as I can tell, under the current (non-revised) PVs, both should have the same value (20).  However, the spreadsheet that uses the old formulas and which we derived all the current MUL PVs from has a rounding error compared to how the Companion lays things out, so that may explain why you're getting a 1-point difference.

I'll change the Standard to 20 PV, placing them closer together.  If/when the revision goes through, the rounding error will be fixed; I don't want to adjust it now, because that would be a bunch of work only to be thrown out when the revised values are implemented.
Away until late August.  Cheers.

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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #675 on: 19 June 2017, 18:19:05 »
WFT-2X "Bear Trap"

Issue: The unit is armed with a Silver Bullet Gauss which according to the ASC conversion rules on pg 104 qualifies for the FLK special.  The Card lacks this special.

Solution: Add FLK 1/1/1 to the specials field.  PV should not be affected as this special is not invoked as an offensive special factor.


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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #676 on: 27 June 2017, 05:10:43 »
Hi, the MUL is missing the Stalker STK-3Fk. It's from Era Report:2750 (Page 129). I am not sure if there is a record sheet for it, I can't find one.

The only reason it's come up is that it's one of only two mechs specifically mentioned for Inner Sphere forces in the new World Wide Event.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #678 on: 13 July 2017, 17:07:23 »
A question came up and was posted here (lost with last hiccup), the question is about the LCT-1M according to the MUL is is listed as extinct (as of 2901) but several of us can find no sources other than the MUL that says it is/or should be extinct, on the other hand we can find sources that imply it is still active as late as 3039 at least.

According to TRO 3025 "The Model 1M Locust reduces its armor and carries two LRM 5-packs, 24 rounds of ammunition, and the popular Martell medium laser . This version is used mainly by House Davion's Ceti Hussars." It also goes on to say "Model 1E is the Locust variant least produced and least resembling the others . Reducing its armor in favor of more weaponry, the 1E carries two arm-mounted medium lasers as well as two small lasers." and then in TRO 3039 "The 1M variant, popular in Davion space, further reduces the Locust’s armor in order to mount two LRM-5 launchers." So if it is produced more than the 1E but the 1E is not extinct, and in 3039 it is popular in Davion space, also both TRO's talk about it in the present tense not past. So I guess the question is there a super special secret source that only the MUL folks have that says it is extinct as several of us have looked and can not find anything, or are we just missing the snake in front of our faces?

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #679 on: 14 July 2017, 01:55:23 »
Question: Phoenix Hawk LAM PHX - in the MUL, all the records show it as size 1. At 50 tons, should be size 2.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4821/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk1rb
(no AS card for the C version).

For correction in the next pass, thanks.


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.
« Last Edit: 14 July 2017, 04:36:56 by Xotl »
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* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"


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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #681 on: 14 July 2017, 07:03:50 »
Quote
Xotl: Corrected, thanks.

Thank you!
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #682 on: 15 July 2017, 22:50:47 »
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #683 on: 15 July 2017, 23:52:39 »
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

Such a durable Mech should last centuries....
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cavingjan

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #684 on: 16 July 2017, 07:08:46 »
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #685 on: 16 July 2017, 16:18:03 »
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #686 on: 20 July 2017, 15:42:53 »
Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Alright, sounds like I may just have a poor memory then, haha.

It is pretty safe to assume the Wolf Empire could potentially maintain some that they already possessed (via salvage) or claim some as isorla from the Falcons, no?

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #687 on: 20 July 2017, 16:54:56 »
That's outside the purview of the MUL, but in general any major faction in BattleTech can field at least a few examples of most 'Mechs. The faction availability notes in the MUL (and other sources) should be treated as guidelines, not straitjackets.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #688 on: 26 July 2017, 04:43:41 »
Hi, I have a function request. Is there any way to add a function so that we can just click on an era and see everything available to every faction (essentially, am average lost of all units available in a specific era)? If this already exists I'm missing how to do it.

Thank you!
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #689 on: 26 July 2017, 06:11:02 »
You can do it with the regular filters. Just use the available era filter. Don't specify a faction in that filter.

 

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