Author Topic: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL  (Read 11942 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« on: 08 August 2015, 14:39:18 »

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I'm a day early due to my local gaming group switching to Sunday for this week. I was a day late the previous couple of weeks due to the huge Omni articles, so this should help even the karma a bit. ;)

We haven't gone flying in a while, and I needed something simple for this week after the marathons of the past two weeks. (Of note, I was dismayed and amused that the somehow-revived Hetzer article had a far more lively discussion last week than the massive Bandit article prompted! I guess people aren't as into Bandits?). The result was covering a request for a simple transport chopper... or anyway, that's what I thought it was going to be. Instead... well, there's a lot going on here to enjoy if you're a Capellan fan, and a lot to be very, very worried about if you're a fan of any of the neighboring folks.

The appearance of battle armor in the arsenals of the Clans in 3050 changed warfare as the Inner Sphere knew it, and it was soon after that we began seeing nations attempt their own suits. The four-man squads required something more substantial in terms of capacity than the existing APCs did, and over time as battle armor have increased in variety so too have the means of moving them about. By the Dark Age, there's no doubt that an army isn't complete without armored infantry- they're as much a vital asset as any Battlemech. But the fact remains that moving them can be difficult sometimes, and anything that ensures they reach the field safely is vital. Having them shot off the hull of an Omnimech before they reach the field, then is subpar. So too is finding the vehicle they were moving around in has been disabled or destroyed, and they've become the eggs inside a smashed egg carton. So you want to move them safely, but quickly enough that they arrive when you need them to. It appears that House Liao took these requirements to heart in the post-Jihad era, and the Shun is an impressive testament to their efforts.

We start by opening the engine bay, as usual, and we find a surprise there. Even in the Dark Age, where vehicles are as likely to have advanced and expensive equipment as a Mech, finding an XL engine in a mere transport chopper is a surprise- and hints at just how intriguing this aircraft really is. The non-fossil fuel power plant means heat sinks, which see use in the armor, and the the miniscule weight means the Shun moves at a respectable 7/11 movement curve. That's not going to win a ton of awards- the stalwart old Karnov, for example, runs rings around it. But it's plenty enough to quickly move in and drop off the troops, and at the end of the day anything the Shun does revolves around doing that job as efficiently as possible. 7/11 is fine for transport duty.

The armor is perhaps not a huge surprise to Liao fans- we have stealth armor on this, with the ECM suite needed to power it and the heat sinks to run it. The speed, combined with the armor's bonuses, should mean that Shuns will be hard to hit as they approach an LZ. The surprise is in the amount of that armor- even if a Shun does get hit by lucky shots, it's not likely to care. The AC-20 test isn't often used on a VTOL- why bother?- but here it is completely stymied by six tons of protection! ALL locations (rotor aside obviously) can survive an AC-20 blast without even breaching the armor. The front and rear have 24 points, the sides another 23, suggesting that Shuns are intended to land in amongst an enemy formation to unload their deadly cargo, and thus might take fire from any direction as they do so. Dropping a Shun, then is a challenge- it's hard to hit it to begin with, it doesn't much mind if it does get hit now and then. This is one tough egg carton.

The eggs inside will have to provide their own fire support, because Shuns don't really waste much time on helping the cause. Two Mydron Magshot gauss rifles (thanks, Davion!) are fitted under the nose, sharing one ton of ammo. These give nice range to the Shun, without using the heat sinks up. But... not much damage, so enemies aren't likely to run for cover to escape an angry Shun. Maybe they should though... tucked in with those rifles is a TAG laser. What's worse than an impossible-to-kill chopper showing up with a horde of infantry in your backfield? Getting nailed by homing missiles called in by nearby Catapults and the like as the Shuns make their drop. Ohhhhhh, that hurts. It's one of the few things not devoted to making infantry delivery on the Shun, but it's a huge capability for it. Even after the troops are dropped off, a Shun can make high-speed(ish) passes on tough enemy targets, relying on its stealthy, tough skin to protect it, providing support to artillery. Considering the Capellan love of Arrow artillery, that's no small consideration.

EDIT: Putting the final article together, I managed to accidentally cut the mention of the one-ton targeting computer guiding the rifles. This is an odd choice on the Shun, since really it doesn't help the guns a great deal, not nearly as much as, say, more Magshots or a couple of rocket launchers would. But, if you're already investing in an XL engine, stealth armor, etc., why the hell not go totally nuts? Plus it's another little swipe at the Federated Suns, and that's never a bad thing.

That only leaves the infantry bay... a cavernous, 12-ton bay that can hold three squads of battle armor, or four of regular infantry, or a full weeks' worth of medication for the Chancellor. There's no shortage of fun ideas for what to stuff in there- the Amazon was a fun one to tinker with in practice, as well as the ubiquitous Fa Shih, but don't forget the new heavy Shen Long as an option as well- with its wide array of options in terms of weapons to haul, a few Shuns hauling Shen Longs can wildly change the tide of a battle with ease. Even regular infantry, like SRM platoons, aren't to be forgotten. Surprise anti-Mech platoons dropped into a choke point can be very concerning. And of course, there's Death Commandos... Maybe best not to continue that thought.

No variants exist (which is why I picked this thing this week in the first place, if I'm honest), but there's not a lot to change really anyway- hardly anything about it isn't perfectly designed for the job at hand. It's not a cheap option for infantry transport, but it's hard to imagine a unit better overall for the job. Can you? Any ideas for use? Get devious, Capellan fans, and we'll see you next week.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2015, 19:08:48 by JadeHellbringer »
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Scotty

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #1 on: 08 August 2015, 14:44:58 »
The 12 ton bay is really interesting, because it allows a lance of Shuns to drop a full company of armored infantry in a single sortie.  It fits in very nicely as an organic transport for infantry units.  A company of them is for to carry an entire battalion of Amazon or Fa Shih or Shen Long suits.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2015, 15:15:29 »
My favorite thing about VTOL transports is that if you're using jump capable BA, you don't have to land to disembark your troops. This ability is well worth the high BV for the Shun. I don't really play Capellans, but I do have a Death Commando unit this beauty would fit in nicely with. Now I just need IWM to make a mini of it. I can't remember off the top of my head, but are there any negative side effects to air dropping BA into light or heavy woods?
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2015, 15:31:29 »
A stealthy, high-capacity transport that can take a pounding, and call in guided shells?

Lemme check the MUL...dang, none of my factions get it. Shame, this thing would kick ass in Marian formations. Carry full Contubernii of Ravagers or Marauders, and guiding in support fire from Testudos...would been glorious. :'(
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2015, 15:37:58 »
A stealthy, high-capacity transport that can take a pounding, and call in guided shells?

Lemme check the MUL...dang, none of my factions get it. Shame, this thing would kick ass in Marian formations. Carry full Contubernii of Ravagers or Marauders, and guiding in support fire from Testudos...would been glorious. :'(

and you get to face it down in Canopian forces. what fun.  :))


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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2015, 15:54:12 »
Yeah, my only condolence there is the Marian retro-Centurion, which carries a clustergun, and isn't that much more expensive than the Shun itself.
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Empyrus

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #6 on: 08 August 2015, 16:36:17 »
Oh, already? Great!
Interesting machine. I also find it interesting how i get a better picture of it, how it works, than merely based on what reads in the TRO.
I will want some of these once i can start assembling a Dark Age army for myself.

A shame about the low armament (yes yes, it is not its purpose, but more guns never hurts, right? No pun intended). Wouldn't mind seeing a "Hind" variant that trades troop capacity for additional weapons. In case someone wonders what i mean: The Mil Mi-24 is famous for being fast, carrying heavy weapons load and carrying troops around. Awesome aerial APC.
Anyway, such variant would be make a good transport for the first wave, clears some landing zone, deploys troops to hold it, and then standard Shun's drop additional troops there. And such variant would not be dependent upon outside guide missile support.

By the way, isn't the Shun a superheavy VTOL at 40 tons? Just exactly how does it affect its function? I'm not sure but based on what reads on TacOps, it doesn't seem to have terribly much effect.

EDIT Psst: you forgot to mention the Magshots are tied to a targeting computer. Not that this matters much.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2015, 16:38:00 by Empyrus »

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #7 on: 08 August 2015, 17:21:37 »
I always liked the Shun in MWDA. Picking up the extra cargo bay for three squads is a nice touch.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #8 on: 08 August 2015, 17:59:23 »
Could have some real fun with field guns

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #9 on: 08 August 2015, 18:11:10 »
i'm not sure you could load up field gun equipped infantry.. most mechanized inf. seem to be around 15-20 tons to start, then add the weight of the guns...

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #10 on: 08 August 2015, 19:04:58 »


EDIT Psst: you forgot to mention the Magshots are tied to a targeting computer. Not that this matters much.

Huh. I know I typed something about it... these articles tend to be written in sections, then assembled via cut and paste at the end. Going back to Wordpad, I see the portion about it, but I must have missed it when I moved it over here. Crud. Updating the article.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #11 on: 08 August 2015, 19:13:28 »
The Shun kinda makes me think the Capellans looked at the Cavalry Infiltrator and said "no, no tovarish, this is how it is done!"
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #12 on: 08 August 2015, 21:18:46 »
Ain't nothin' wrong with the Calvary Infiltrator, ivan.

Nice, simple writeup of a nice simple unit. The stealth armour offsets the Shun's slowish (relatively) speed, excellent choice. And its always great to see a VTOL that passes the AC20 test.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #13 on: 08 August 2015, 22:32:03 »
Ain't nothin' wrong with the Calvary Infiltrator, ivan.

Nice, simple writeup of a nice simple unit. The stealth armour offsets the Shun's slowish (relatively) speed, excellent choice. And its always great to see a VTOL that passes the AC20 test.

Frankly I prefer the Cavalry Infiltrator.  Remember the rotors can't take many hits.  To extend the egg cartoon analogy particularly if you are firing with an LB-X cannon then no matter how tough the egg carton is, it is easy to knock out of someone's hands.  And gravity can smash some very tough cartons once dropped.  And the bigger the carton, the greater the temptation to see it fall.

So don't give them time to get those extra shots in.  Zoom in, drop off your load, then run.  The enemy can't shoot you down if you are no longer in range.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #14 on: 08 August 2015, 22:39:14 »
the one time I experimented with Shuns, I dropped three Squads of Marauder Battle armor, and those puppies held the line pretty darned well once dropped off at the pool.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #15 on: 08 August 2015, 22:42:36 »
Which makes one wonder if this reflects differing strategic attitudes of the Capellans and Davions. House Davion's Cavalry is more likely to avoid fire and therefore might get in, drop troops, and get out again.

The Shun carries a larger troop complement, its not as able to avoid fire, and its heavier armor doesn't really protect it from rotor hits. But it DOES make it much more likely to survive (along with its passengers) if it does go down. So even if you shoot it down it's probably still completed its primary objective. The needs of the state outweigh the safety of any individual, tovarish!
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #16 on: 08 August 2015, 22:45:26 »
So, what can I do to take this thing down from the ground? Because I'm thinking of something along the lines of "a-metric-butt-ton-of-LBXes" mixed with "a-bit-of-ER-PPC-razzle-dazzle."

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #17 on: 08 August 2015, 22:46:59 »
So, what can I do to take this thing down from the ground? Because I'm thinking of something along the lines of "a-metric-butt-ton-of-LBXes" mixed with "a-bit-of-ER-PPC-razzle-dazzle."

Artillery isn't a bad idea either- flak hurts, and if you fail you've got the ability to drop a significant 'I dislike you' note to the infantry it drops.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #18 on: 08 August 2015, 22:51:14 »
Artillery isn't a bad idea either- flak hurts, and if you fail you've got the ability to drop a significant 'I dislike you' note to the infantry it drops.

Too bad there ain't no 150+ year old people in BTU. They could say: "Back in my day, we used those AC/5s for anti-aircraft work, AC/5s no one even uses anymore. Youngsters nowadays? They need these fancy Long Tom Cannons invented when i was young", or something like that.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #19 on: 08 August 2015, 22:57:51 »
Too bad there ain't no 150+ year old people in BTU. They could say: "Back in my day, we used those AC/5s for anti-aircraft work, AC/5s no one even uses anymore. Youngsters nowadays? They need these fancy Long Tom Cannons invented when i was young", or something like that.

AC/5s...there's a thought. A delightful one, in fact. Load them with slugs...oh my, I think I may need to change my pants test this out in MM (once the Dylan's version drops, of course).

Artillery isn't a bad idea either- flak hurts, and if you fail you've got the ability to drop a significant 'I dislike you' note to the infantry it drops.

Yes, arty comes with its own fail-safe, if you will, when you use it as flak, but you won't get the chance to set up the shots you need before the PBI the Shun dropped off get to say "hello" to your units via the language of gunfire.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #20 on: 08 August 2015, 23:31:28 »
I really like the Shun, it's one of the many great infantry transports we got out of the 3145 series...even if the word "over-engineered" springs to mind. The XL definitely isn't needed to make the VTOL viable, and a downgrade to a standard fusion engine wouldn't require much sacrifice - beyond the someone pointless targeting computer and a bit of that heavy shell of armor.

While I'm at it, I'll go ahead and say the obvious: SRMs would have been dandy. Always nifty to see underused pieces of tech though.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #21 on: 08 August 2015, 23:32:50 »
the one time I experimented with Shuns, I dropped three Squads of Marauder Battle armor, and those puppies held the line pretty darned well once dropped off at the pool.

Which makes one wonder if this reflects differing strategic attitudes of the Capellans and Davions. House Davion's Cavalry is more likely to avoid fire and therefore might get in, drop troops, and get out again.

The Shun carries a larger troop complement, its not as able to avoid fire, and its heavier armor doesn't really protect it from rotor hits. But it DOES make it much more likely to survive (along with its passengers) if it does go down. So even if you shoot it down it's probably still completed its primary objective. The needs of the state outweigh the safety of any individual, tovarish!

Unfortunantely while the stacking limits are by level, so you can have say two squads land beneath the VTOL (in case of jumping suits) loading is extended.  And the Shun will have to loiter in the area to get that third squad down.  Or even worse if it has to pick the troops up.

In short the Shun is going to have longer times loitering around the LZ than a Cavalry Infiltrator.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #22 on: 08 August 2015, 23:33:36 »
I had Dragon's Fury forces use this once against me in a MM battle.  Not sure I even tried to shoot at it since everything else had better to hit numbers.  The IndiMech conversion I put into position to threaten the BA that were dropped for the window on the first turn where they are vulnerable?  I think the MagShots plinked the gyro.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #23 on: 08 August 2015, 23:35:16 »
Too bad there ain't no 150+ year old people in BTU. They could say: "Back in my day, we used those AC/5s for anti-aircraft work, AC/5s no one even uses anymore. Youngsters nowadays? They need these fancy Long Tom Cannons invented when i was young", or something like that.

Speaking of 150 year olds... I seem to remember the RoW having a special rule that a VTOL's rotor was automatically destroyed if a mech hit the unit with a physical attack. I don't know if the newfangled TW kept that rule.. if not it should have!

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #24 on: 08 August 2015, 23:44:28 »
Speaking of 150 year olds... I seem to remember the RoW having a special rule that a VTOL's rotor was automatically destroyed if a mech hit the unit with a physical attack. I don't know if the newfangled TW kept that rule.. if not it should have!
Seems a rather difficult feat.



Anyway, i just remembered there was another superheavy transport VTOL, the Cardinal: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/votw-cardinal-transport/
How does it compare? I mean, what do you think?
The Cardinal has more armor but it isn't stealth. It is also a bit faster, with heavier armament, though it has only ten tons of cargo space

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #25 on: 08 August 2015, 23:48:15 »
Seems a rather difficult feat.

Not really, since it's gotta get pretty low to drop non-jump capable troops.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #26 on: 08 August 2015, 23:54:45 »
Seems a rather difficult feat.

Disturbingly common in my group. Then again, we've got one regular member with WEIRD taste in maneuvers for his Thumper Karnovs(not me, btw), and another who will never pass up a chance to DFA a VTOL.
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #27 on: 09 August 2015, 01:54:15 »
AC/5s...there's a thought. A delightful one, in fact. Load them with slugs...oh my, I think I may need to change my pants test this out in MM (once the Dylan's version drops, of course).

Don't forget that LB-X autocannons come in sizes other than 10 (if I'm shooting at a stealthy target, I want good short and medium range brackets so their stealth helps them less -- the 5 and 2 come in handy there) and that standard and light ACs can use precision or flak rounds.

And of course, if the Shun wants to drop its cargo anywhere close to where they can do some good in time rather than just smack in the middle of nowhere where it's safe but where there's also not exactly much to do, chances are that it's going to end up fairly close to somebody at some point.

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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #28 on: 09 August 2015, 01:59:31 »
Well, I see the Shun as being durable enough to wade into the fire to drop those BA.  The Stealth Armor is going to give even some of the standard AA weapons a bit of trouble- only at short range does a cluster benefit negate the +1.  It definitely calls for the LB-5X with its longer ranges . . . (Hello Garm)

Some of the other VTOL transports you make sure they are not going to be shot at because they would fold up.  Sure you can risk some fire but you are not going to take the BA where it is hottest like you could in a Shun.

Was this being exported at all?  Did Cappie mercs get access?  Is it restricted to just the Trinity Alliance 2.0?
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Re: VotW: Shun Transport VTOL
« Reply #29 on: 09 August 2015, 02:19:48 »
and another who will never pass up a chance to DFA a VTOL.
I can see why, because that sounds like the most awesome thing ever.

 

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