(Answered) B-Pods on ‘Mech torsos

[Alfaryn]

PROBLEMATIC RULE

P. 130 of TW (third printing) in the second paragraph of Anti-Battle Armor Pods (B-Pods) state that B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while B-Pods on arms, front torsos and head can be used against swarm attacks.

QUESTION

Is the above rule correct? The way it is written B-Pods on front center torso can be used against leg and swarm attacks and those mounted on rear side torsos can be used against neither of those.

MY THEORIES

My guess would be, that the B-Pods on the center torso are supposed to be used against leg attacks, and those on the LEFT or RIGHT torso (instead on the front torsos) can be used against the swarm attacks (as is written).
Alternatively the B-Pods on ANY torso location facing the REAR (instead of any facing, but only on center torso) could be used against leg attacks, and B-Pods on any torso location facing front could be used against swarm attacks  (as is written).
Finally it could be, that the rules are indeed correct, but in this case it would be strange, that TechManual does not explicitly prohibit putting the B-Pods in rear left and rear right torsos, since they would be pretty much useless there, and B-Pods in the center torso facing front would be better than in any other location at no cost other then occupying critical slots in a location that usually has few of them to spare on such equipment.

RESEARCH I'VE DONE

I think that looking through Technical Readouts and other sources listing official units could help eliminate at least some of the above possibilities, but I can't remember from the top of my head nor find any official BattleMech design mounting B-Pods in the torso. I only have some of the TROs and Record Sheet books and it is not like I remember their contents by heart, and I couldn't find any using unofficial methods. B-Pods (unlike A-Pods)  are for dome reason not on the list of equipment in the advanced search in Megamek, and an article on Sarna.net pointed me only at the Scarecrow and the 3085 era Goliath, both of which apparently mount B-Pods only in their legs.

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Edit - I've added extra notes on my theories on what the answers could be, and the research I have done on the topic.

[Alfaryn]

Bump.

[Alfaryn]

Bump.

[Xotl]

The rules on B-pods are correct.  B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while B-Pods on arms, front torsos and head can be used against swarm attacks, but not against leg attacks.

[Alfaryn]

Please don't take it personally, but your answer as written seems to be self contradictory to me, and actually convinces me, that there indeed is a problem with the rules.

The problem is that the rules do not split 'Mech torso into two separate groups of location/facing sections, that together encompass entire torso.

The rules state, that B-Pods mounted in the CENTER torso (without saying if it is front or rear) can be used against leg attacks, and B-Pods mounted in the FRONT torsos (without saying if it is center, left or right side) can be used against swarm attacks. As written they allow B-Pods mounted in the center front torso to be used in either case, and B-Pods mounted in rear left and rear right to be used in neither.

You stated it a B-pod mounted on a front center torso both can be used against leg attacks (because it is mounted in a center torso location) and at the same time can't be used against them (because it is mounted in a front torso facing), as if you didn't notice that a torso section CAN be both center AND front.

I suspect that whoever wrote those rules wanted any B-Pod to be useful only against either leg attack or swarm attack depending on where it is mounted, but at some point changed mind about whether he wants to have torso mounted B-Pods divided along FACINGS (front mounted B-Pods - useful against swarm attacks, rear mounted - useful against leg attacks) or LOCATIONS (center mounted B-Pods - useful against leg attacks, side mounted - useful against swarm attacks), but forgot to change the rule regarding either swarm or leg attacks.

[worktroll]

Reviewing the exact wording.

[Alfaryn]

Bump.

[Xotl]

he current wording on p. 130 is:
"B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while those on the arms, front torsos or head can engage swarm attacks."

We'll be changing the wording from "legs or centre torso" to "legs or any torso facing".

[Alfaryn]

Does this mean, that B-Pods mounted on front torso facings will be usable against both leg and swarm attacks, or you will be able to use only arms and head mounted B-pods against swarm attacks?

[Xotl]

Why would you assume the latter when it specifically says "arms, front torsos or head"?  Am I missing something?

"B-Pods mounted in the legs or any torso facing can be used against leg attacks, while those on the arms, front torsos or head can engage swarm attacks."

[Alfaryn]

In other words there is no point in mounting B-Pods in rear torso facings (because front facings cover both leg and swarm attacks), and if you have space in torso there is no point in mounting B-Pods anywhere else (again - because B-Pods mounted in front torsos cover both leg and swarm attacks, while those mounted in other locations cover only either leg or swarm attacks)? Why then all official 'Mechs with B-Pods I know mount them in legs? Intentionally suboptimal designs?

Is there any reason to allow placement of a B-Pod in such way, that it can protect against both leg and swarm attacks? Looking at the rules for 'Mech locations other, than those problematic torsos, I was under impression, that the intent was to make 'Mech designer choose, weather given B-Pod can work against leg or swarm attacks.

[Xotl]

Leg mounts also allow deliberate attacks against infantry in the hex, so therre is a point to them even after the errata.  Since we have to adjust them to clarify, we figure we'd make them a bit more usable, because they're pretty crap as is.

This wording should work better:

B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while those on the arms, front torsos or head can engage swarm attacks.
Change to:
B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while those on the arms, head, or any torso location or facing can engage swarm attacks.

So, front and rear are irrelevant.  Legs are vs. leg attacks only (and can be used as a weapon).  Arms, head, LT, and RT are swarm attacks only.  CT covers both, but slots there are limited (and b-pods are explosive).  Should solve everything while still preserving the choice intended, yet improving their versatility a tiny bit.

[Alfaryn]

I admit I completely forgot about offensive use of leg mounted B-Pods. The new rules make more sense if you take it into account. Sorry about not re-reading the rules before posting a few days ago.

The latest version of the rules seems the best. I would only throw away words "or facing" from them. They are redundant here, and unless something changed recently (as a result of our discussion about when to use rear torso armor for example - see http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55595.0) and did not end up in the officially published errata yet, the rules never use or define the term torso "facing". It is something we used in these forums for convenience, but the rules only use terms such as "rear armor" or "weapons mounted in 'Mechs rear torso location". Even the term "front [torso] armor" is never used in the rules (only "armor" and "rear armor"), which contributed to the problems in phrasing the rules about resolving torso damage.

So I would suggest the following wording:

B-Pods mounted in the legs or center torso can be used against leg attacks, while those on the arms, head, or any torso location can engage swarm attacks.