Author Topic: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars  (Read 2668 times)

Hellraiser

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I'm looking for opinions from the Aerospace community experts out there.

Who comes out on top in the 2v2 matchup?

Avalon + Fox    v/s    Congress + York


Rules:
No ASF,  No SCC,  No DS Collars.

Just a match up of guns, SI, & Armor.

Please Discuss!


Personally I'm thinking the Davion's Armor/SI is going to be too big to overcome, but, I'd really like to hear thoughts from the experts.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #1 on: 25 January 2017, 21:01:02 »
Maybe leave our DropShips but integral fighters should be kept

With the fighters it would be closer but I'd say Davion swings it their ships can outlast the others

If the Jags took out the Fox and then swarmed the cruiser with fighter attacks I think the Avalon would hurt but the Jag fighters will have no place to land
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Hellraiser

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #2 on: 25 January 2017, 23:08:14 »
So you think 18 v/s 60 added fighters is enough to even things up?

I added up the firepower of the Warships & its very similar.

Its that Armor/SI that is just overpowering for the Avalon that worries me.



I was thinking of adding some early PWS like the Overlord-A3 & assault ships (Avenger/Claymore) for the FS side but in turn add Titan's & Sassinands to the Clan side.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Dragon Cat

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #3 on: 25 January 2017, 23:22:52 »
The reason I said fighters is the York is a carrier by designation taking away her fighters takes away from the design

The fighters I honestly don't know if they would make a big change but I just feel they are part of the ships

Adding in DropShips sways it back to Davion again purely with numbers

I still think the Avalon will walk it overall
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Vition2

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #4 on: 26 January 2017, 01:34:46 »
A fairly quick look at it but, if we don't include any attached ships and fighters, it's pretty heavily in the Davion's favor - to the point where the Fox might escape destruction.

Including fighters pushes it to a much more even match-up - with a slight edge to the clanners, imo.  In the most optimistic example I can think of, the Jaguars launch their 60 fighters well out of range of the Davions and target the Fox.  This is likely to mission-kill the Fox while gutting the fighters to ineffectiveness.  This leaves the combined might of the York and Congress against the Avalon.  To break it down a bit further while leaving out actual specifics, this leaves a total of ~650 capital damage and 3 capital missile launchers with ~1100 armor against ~390 capital damage and 14 capital missile launchers with ~1800 armor.  At this point a couple things could happen, the Avalon could maintain distance and launch capital missiles until it runs out it's ammo, or it could close with the Jaguars.  Assuming the first happens, the point defense (aka, all the weapons) would probably render the Avalon's missiles mostly ineffective - I suspect somewhere between 0 and 2 would get by per salvo - this would leave the Avalon alive, but able to quit the field of battle without serious damage.  In the second scenario, if the Jaguars have any sense of coordination they are likely to mission-kill the Avalon, but will suffer significant damage in response - I would expect the Congress to be mission-killed, while the York would have significant damage but still be mostly operational.

Just my take on it, there are certainly other scenarios and strategies that may give the Davions a bigger edge when fighters are involved - examples include giving both sides dropships and/or small craft.

Dragon Cat

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #5 on: 26 January 2017, 02:50:21 »
I'd say it becomes an Avalon vs York fight which the Avalon would swing it - unless the Davion's pour on the ramming speed then all bets are off
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monbvol

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #6 on: 26 January 2017, 11:23:35 »
Without support craft it is a very easy Davion victory.  To the point I think you could even drop the Fox from the Davion force and still come out the victor without support craft.

jackson123

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #7 on: 26 January 2017, 13:07:26 »
Davion win. The York without its fighters is not that effective.

Dragon Cat

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #8 on: 26 January 2017, 15:16:35 »
Maybe switch the York for a Liberator the Jags had one if I remember correctly

Then you have a Corvette and a Cruiser against a Cruiser and an undergunned Frigate
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I am Belch II

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #9 on: 26 January 2017, 16:49:11 »
The best that the Davions have in their ships is the armor and the SI. That would to keep the Davion ships in longer for more firepower and damage .
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #10 on: 26 January 2017, 17:48:30 »
Designed for different times the Clan ships are a product of the Star League Defence Force's "we have tons of these I challenge you to shoot them all down" and the Clan's neglect of their WarShip fleets (really they could have created real monsters in their exile)

The Davion units are built for a modern age where WarShips haven't been around for a long time and the Succession States see them as priceless and rare we need to protect these with as much armour and guns as we can.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #11 on: 26 January 2017, 23:49:02 »
Maybe switch the York for a Liberator the Jags had one if I remember correctly

Then you have a Corvette and a Cruiser against a Cruiser and an undergunned Frigate



The York is fixed, but I might consider swapping the Congress-c for either the better armed Congress-D variant w/ the extra NAC30's (I know its not clan then, but in theory they could have had one) or a Cameron for more armor & better range.


Hmm,
Another option might be to allow Droppers for the Clan side but not the Davions.
Titan-c + Sassinand offers some extra advantages.

How many &/or What types of Droppers would you think it takes to negate the massive Armor/SI advantage the Avalon has?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

marauder648

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #12 on: 27 January 2017, 03:24:41 »
If the Clan ships can get into gun range then they'll win. The Avalon is absurdly tough with LOTS of armour and a thick hull but her firepower is built around disabling you with missiles at extreme range.  Get close and her other firepower's not that exceptional.  The Fox is adequate but lacks focus. 
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Stormlion1

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Re: Warship Deathmatch - Operation Bulldog - Davions v/s Jaguars
« Reply #13 on: 28 January 2017, 23:04:08 »
I have a feeling it would come down to the skill level of the crews in a fight like this. If the Jag's have fighters the Fox is gonna get killed because they would just have a lot of them! The Avalon though is a very tough and hard hitting nut and would pound the Clan Warships to scrap. Clan's would need something in the Heavy Cruiser Range or Battlecruiser range to engage it successfully. Might make a good Megamek game. If I could get over the Avalon that looks like its going backwords that is.
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