The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z

[Crow]

Natasha, that is a truly dizzying array of possible Society forces that you've put together. You're totally right about maximizing as many dirty tricks to win the day vs raw firepower. I suppose the trick here is getting someone to play against you when you play Society  ;D

I like the idea of a few warships (hulled out into transports, like the original Leviathan) being used to move remaining members of the Society, and setting up shop somewhere rimward of the former FWL

Per Ben Rome's WoR draft, some remnants of the Society ended up in the Trader's Domain just outside the Raven Alliance. I like to think that this is the case especially since there was a note in WoR discussing the dangers of Society infiltration on the RA and the report was a little too over the top that there was no danger.. ;)

[Xeno426]

Networked Assault Trey
Un 1: Royal Lightning (Nova CEWs), Royal Lightning (Nova CEWs), Royal Lightning (Nova CEWs), Royal Nightshade (Nova CEWS), Royal Nightshade (Nova CEWS), Royal Nightshade (Nova CEWS), Saladin (Clan Cargo)
Un 2: Royal Von Luckner (Nova CEWS), Royal Von Luckner (Nova CEWS), Royal Rhino (Nova CEWS), Royal Rhino (Nova CEWS), Royal Demon (Nova CEWS), Royal Demon (Nova CEWS), Royal Demon (Nova CEWS)
Un 3: Clan Assault Infantry, Clan Assault Infantry, Clan Assault Infantry
Note: The Royal Lightning (Nova CEWs), Royal Von Luckner (Nova CEWS), and Royal Demon (Nova CEWS) each trade one Streak SRM-2 for a Nova CEWS.  The Royal Nightshade (Nova CEWS) and Royal Rhino (Nova CEWS) each trade their Guardian ECMs for a Nova CEWS.

Nova CEWS generates +2 heat, and units that don't track heat need to have enough HS to cover that. The Royal Nightshade has a LPL that's already using up its 10 free HS, so it would need another 2T from somewhere to fit the Nova—maybe dropping the speed down to 12/18, which would give an extra 0.5T to maybe add to armor. The rest of those units have spare HS capacity from the engine, so they're fine.

[Caedis Animus]

I take it Society refits of old IIC Mechs would mostly consist of stripping something for Nova CEWs and replacing missiles with iATMs. That'd make sense, right?

[Natasha Kerensky]

I take it Society refits of old IIC Mechs would mostly consist of stripping something for Nova CEWs and replacing missiles with iATMs. That'd make sense, right?

A handful of IICs are in the Society RAT on p. 32:  Jenner, Urbanmech, Clint, Griffin, Rifleman, Guillotine, Rifleman, and Warhammer.  No IIC mechs show up on the Society's record sheets in WoR Supp so we don't have any official mods, but Nova CEWS and iATMs are the two signature Society mech weapons.

Personally, given the omnimech-heavy nature of their Coyote allies and the Society's high-tech nature, I would have assumed that the Society fielded old-school Golden Century/Coyote omnimechs, like the Coyotl, Lupus, and Woodsman, before resorting to IICs and SLDF Royals.  As omnis, installing Nova CEWS and iATMs would logically have been easier on these designs.

[Crow]

Personally, given the omnimech-heavy nature of their Coyote allies and the Society's high-tech nature, I would have assumed that the Society fielded old-school Golden Century/Coyote omnimechs, like the Coyotl, Lupus, and Woodsman, before resorting to IICs and SLDF Royals.  As omnis, installing Nova CEWS and iATMs would logically have been easier on these designs.

I certainly agree. I was quite honestly surprised that the Coyotl, Lupus and Woodsman didn't appear on the Society RATs (although the Woodsman did appear on the Burrock/Dark Caste RAT). On the other hand, the Cephalus and Osteon appeared more on the Burrock/Dark Caste RAT than they did on the Society RAT, which to me makes no sense. In my view of things, Burrock/Dark Caste RATs should be more likely filled with Royals and other units raided from Brian Caches over the centuries, whereas the Society would use more omnimechs and other high-tech toys fliched from "failed" black projects that were taken off the books.

In universe, putting Nova CEWS on everything should be easy to do, right? I mean, WoB put c3i's on everything under the sun, even old SLDF designs. Of course the Society didn't have the resources that WoB did, so I'm of the opinion that Nova CEWS should mostly be restricted to being mounted on Omnis and other cutting edge forces that aren't meant to be cannon fodder. I really wish that there was a Kingfisher, Gargoyle or Hellion with Nova CEWS. they showed up in the Society RATs, too, after all...   

Lastly, yes Nova CEWS + iATMs is a good starting point to give a unit more of a Society feel, but there are other things to consider as well. I would look into using high-tech toys in intelligent or unexpected ways like, improved Heavy Lasers, ER Pulse Lasers, arrays of AP Gauss, mech tasers, mech mortars, Streak LRMs, retractable blades, and heck, maybe even Fluid guns and mine layers. And that's before we start talking about bioweapons, compute viruses, etc. The idea is to throw the (Clan trueborn) enemy off balance with a combination of tactics that synergize and allow the combined-arms Society force to win initiative and overrun the opposing force. When I think of designing a Society unit, I ask myself, "how can I make this unit the just right amount of munchy, that it comes off being munchy with style?" 

[Natasha Kerensky]

In my view of things, Burrock/Dark Caste RATs should be more likely filled with Royals and other units raided from Brian Caches over the centuries, whereas the Society would use more omnimechs and other high-tech toys fliched from "failed" black projects that were taken off the books.

Seconded.  Those RATs are a little whack.

The other mech I'd use in Society formations is the Rabid Coyote.  Easy to procure from the Society's Coyote allies, easy to upgrade from ATMs to iATMs, and its pulse laser array has built-in accuracy to offset the Society mechwarriors' poor gunnery skills.

In universe, putting Nova CEWS on everything should be easy to do, right?

The thing that makes me hesitate is the description in WoR Supp about how it's hard for the post-Reaving Clans to remove Nova CEWS from the surviving Osteons.  The Nova CEWS is fixed equipment on the Osteon, which makes me think it may be hard to add or remove from non-omni designs.  But it's ignorable fluff, regardless.

I'm of the opinion that Nova CEWS should mostly be restricted to being mounted on Omnis and other cutting edge forces that aren't meant to be cannon fodder.

I agree.

In the remnant Society treys above, I only used Nova CEWs on the old SLDF Royal tanks because: 1) I prohibited myself from using any mechs, 2) most of the junky Clan tanks I used could be easily upgraded from ATMs to iATMs, and 3) the SLDF tanks had the most firepower of the units I restricted myself to so they benefitted the most from Nova CEWS.

But for a normal Society Trey, I'd reserve the Nova CEWS for omnimechs, and use iATMs and other Society tricks on regular mechs and tanks.

maybe even Fluid guns and mine layers.

I was using fluid guns on some homegrown Society designs until I realized that vehicle flamers can spray obscurant ammo just as far for a fraction of the tonnage.  A flamer with access to both inferno and obscurant ammo basically acts like a short-range iATM with access to both IIW and IMP ammo -- it can screw with Clanner heat levels and targeting modifiers.  (Corrosive ammo is also nice.)  Great for mobile, in-your-face units like protos. small hovertanks/WIGEs, etc.

I really need to find time to post some of my Society designs...

[Crow]

I was using fluid guns on some homegrown Society designs until I realized that vehicle flamers can spray obscurant ammo just as far for a fraction of the tonnage.  A flamer with access to both inferno and obscurant ammo basically acts like a short-range iATM with access to both IIW and IMP ammo -- it can screw with Clanner heat levels and targeting modifiers.  (Corrosive ammo is also nice.)  Great for mobile, in-your-face units like protos. small hovertanks/WIGEs, etc.

I can imagine repurposed Coolant Trucks spraying down city streets with lubricant, causing Mechs to slide into mines, and hopefully fall over prone. Then the Trucks can spray them with obscurant.

You know, kind of like Home Alone, but with genocide and Protomech pilots hopped up on meth

[glitterboy2098]

actually i could beleive that they didn't refit the IIC's and royals, because we are told several times they had to kick off without enough preperation. so odds are any IIC's and royals were ones yanked from production lines or pulled from brian cache's short notice in order to arm the various Cells. a case of "our cell doesn't have enough of our own designs.. what can we beg, borrow, and steal to make up the difference?"

the Brian Caches for vehicles would have been largely untouched over the centuries, thus lots of SLDF era vehicles. Protomechs are cheaper and faster to build than mechs for the clans, so plenty of "Z" proto's. Omnimechs can be easily fitted with society tech, but non-Omni's would need extensive refits, so the Non-Omni's were probably thrown in without changes. at most maybe replacing standard ATM's for iATM's.

[Maingunnery]

A lot of those older units such as Royals or early Clan designs would likely require refurbishment before they could be put into combat.

So any Society survivors might have a lot of them.

[Caedis Animus]

actually i could beleive that they didn't refit the IIC's and royals, because we are told several times they had to kick off without enough preperation. so odds are any IIC's and royals were ones yanked from production lines or pulled from brian cache's short notice in order to arm the various Cells. a case of "our cell doesn't have enough of our own designs.. what can we beg, borrow, and steal to make up the difference?"

the Brian Caches for vehicles would have been largely untouched over the centuries, thus lots of SLDF era vehicles. Protomechs are cheaper and faster to build than mechs for the clans, so plenty of "Z" proto's. Omnimechs can be easily fitted with society tech, but non-Omni's would need extensive refits, so the Non-Omni's were probably thrown in without changes. at most maybe replacing standard ATM's for iATM's.

At the same time, though, one-off designs weren't exactly impossible to come by. While I'm sure some old Hunchback IICs had to be reactivated while missing an AC/20 and side torso, it's hard to think that they never really tried updating them at all.

Then again, IIC "Z" designs may good for a Society fan continuity, where they actually had more time.

[Crow]

Anyone have designs for glider protos that they've cooked up?

[glitterboy2098]

At the same time, though, one-off designs weren't exactly impossible to come by. While I'm sure some old Hunchback IICs had to be reactivated while missing an AC/20 and side torso, it's hard to think that they never really tried updating them at all.

Then again, IIC "Z" designs may good for a Society fan continuity, where they actually had more time.

i suspect that as the wars of reaving went on, you did see a lot of custom versions popping up due to macguyvered repairs. i was making the point that from everything we have been told, the Society could build a lot of mechs, thus the focus on proto's and their massive use of vehicles. so it is likely that many of the mechs they used were either Omni's they could 'disappear' off the assembly lines and load with their own pods in each cell's operational hideouts, or stuff from the less well picked over Brian Caches. but since they didn't have much in the way of construction ability for mechs it seems unlikely that they'd have much capacity for major refits of the brian cache stuff.

so basically, you might see a few 'ace customs' and a lot of "well we don't have X, but we do have Y" type repairs in the later stages of the conflict, it seems unlikely they'd bother doing extensive rebuilds of non-omni's into society specific variants. expediency and limited resources appear to be the defining traits of the Society's direct action Cells.

[Deadborder]

I can imagine that there were a lot of one-off or short-run rebuilds of second line 'Mechs into society models. Chiefly low-level stuff, like swapping ATMs for iATMs and the like, but nothing massive and drastic. And even then, these would have been more of opporunistic cases or rebuilding damaged 'Mechs then actual production runs

[truetanker]

I can see more Royal / SLDFiE vehicles getting the " clan " treatment, eg: swapping older SLDF tech for clan variants... PPC _ER or not, (IS) to ERL + 2 SHS and an extra ton somewhere... LRM-20 (IS) for two clan LRM-15 and more ammo.. a clan STREAK-6 = to an old SLDF SRM-6 in tonnage.

TT

[wantec]

Anyone have designs for glider protos that they've cooked up?

I do.

[Crow]

I do.

As long as we get to see them someday...

For Science!

[Gaiiten]

I do.

Hidden canon designs?

[wantec]

As long as we get to see them someday...

For Science!

I sure hope so. I'm trying my best to get them made canon.

[Crow]

I sure hope so. I'm trying my best to get them made canon.

I'd throw down IRL C-Bills to see that happen. I mean as long as the Canon designs don't mount Protomech Autocannons  ;)

[Caedis Animus]

I dunno, a Jenner IIC with Protomech ACs is something I'd enjoy.

[Crow]

Hey, does anybody know if Glider protos can carry bombs?  >:D

[truetanker]

Well, technically.... If by bombs you mean the 1.5 ton assault battle armor it carried and then dropped from alt. 5, then yeah! Joking aside, I believe so.

TT

Which gives an idea... Horrid as it sounds, picking up enemy non- jumping BA and "DFA"ing them unto their friends below as impromptu bombs. What kind of kinetic damage would this cause?

Furthermore, another idea crosses my sick mind, Glider Proto Nova's... Not saying Slyphs here, but Toads and Gider Protos.

[glitterboy2098]

Hey, does anybody know if Glider protos can carry bombs?  >:D

no.
Bomb hardpoints are automatic on fighters, and under optional rules, VTOl's.
Bomb bays are only available to dropships, smallcraft, fighters, and LAM's.
the bomb rack seen on the sylph BA is only available to BA.
none of these are available for protomechs

this does not preclude that changing in the future, but it seems unlikely they would. bombs aren't really all that useful unless you have full flight. the sylph BA has a hard time using its bomb rack without dying in the process, and LAM's struggle to use non-Rocket launcher non-TAG bomb options while in airmech mode.

[Crow]

Does anyone have any custom Society designs (such as Omni variants) that they would like to share?

[wantec]

Does anyone have any custom Society designs (such as Omni variants) that they would like to share?

Yes, but I can't

[Crow]

Yes, but I can't

Custom designs /= canon designs. Unless you're trying to tell us something.  8)

I guess what I was getting at is certain Mechs present on the Society faction list are sufficiently fast enough to be useful for ferrying Protos with MagClamps around, like Hellion, Linebacker or Gargoyle, or at the very least could stand to have a Nova CEWS slapped on them.

[Xeno426]

Does anyone have any custom Society designs (such as Omni variants) that they would like to share?

Well, beside the vehicle thread I posted a while back, I've got a few omnimech Z configs.

I posted some of my Society omniconfigs over here.

Also, Prince of Darkness made a good 8T protomech that could totally work as a Society Gorgon Z.

[Weirdo]

Custom designs belong in the Fan Designs forum, please.

[Xeno426]

Custom designs belong in the Fan Designs forum, please.

Done.

[truetanker]

Does anyone have any custom Society designs (such as Omni variants) that they would like to share?

Mine are for MY AUverse... it evolves WoB-Society forces.

I might PM you a few later this week after I relocate them Crow...

TT
 ;)