Author Topic: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?  (Read 6984 times)

Domi1981

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During the 90´s I experienced that many of my friends and people I knew bought their first Windows-PCs. Many of those who met for their regular tabletop weekends with coke and crisps now ended up in front of a monitor. It was just more accessible for them to boot up their PC and have a quick go at DOOM or what not. With PCs and improving gameplay it became hard to invite people for a game of classic Battletech. Fewer and fewer people wanted to spend a whole day rolling dices when they could experience an adventure without going out of their own home. Then school was done I had to find a job and ended up with no time to play (which made me a dull boy). During the coming years Battletech vanished and now decades later we might see a revival with HBS´ new game. What do you guys think? Will it evoke interest with the new generation of young nerds or will this drive people off the tables back to the keyboards? Or will it maybe start a revision of the battletech rules to bring the cumbersome rules into the modern world? And I mean the classic BT rules not Alpha Strike.

Frabby

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #1 on: 15 May 2017, 06:57:17 »
Let's start with a postulate: Classic boardgame BattleTech is the "real" BattleTech.

Based on this, I expect the upcoming HBS game will bring more people back to turn-based boardgaming - even though much of this "boardgaming" will likely take place as multiplayer HBS BattleTech or MegaMek. (MWO is a very different animal, and may not attract quite the same audience although there will obviously be overlap. I have no idea to what extend MWO has benefitted the original BattleTech line.)

Which is fine, in my opinion. Because the players will, sooner or later, want the novels and sourcebooks that CGL is selling. You don't get that story and RPG stuff in a computer game. Not enough, anyways. Already now the Kickstarter backers are screaming for campaign storylines and a merc unit operation meta-game, above and beyond the actual tactical combat game.

Even with the apparent success of the BattleMech Manual, I reckon the rules have been done to death, and Technical Readouts too seem to have ebbed as many seem to share the feeling that there is no quality in more quantity.
Which leaves the fiction and sourcebook side of the franchise, the driving factor behind BattleTech in the last decade at least (in my opinion). And that's where CGL shine.
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sadlerbw

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #2 on: 15 May 2017, 10:30:57 »
Can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, when MWO came back out it actually got be back in to Battletech, and I've probably spent more money on TT stuff since then than I did in the entire period before. Even though I still don't get to play TT all that often, I still enjoy the setting and there is boat-loads of fluff to be had if you like that sort of thing...which I do.

Dmon

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #3 on: 15 May 2017, 11:01:33 »
As long as HBS can steer a clearer path than MWO did then I can see it being the biggest boon to the TT to happen in a long, LONG time.

Domi1981

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #4 on: 15 May 2017, 14:23:44 »
Can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, when MWO came back out it actually got be back in to Battletech, and I've probably spent more money on TT stuff since then than I did in the entire period before. Even though I still don't get to play TT all that often, I still enjoy the setting and there is boat-loads of fluff to be had if you like that sort of thing...which I do.

Love it. I spent a fair amount of time with my tablet every evening before I go to bed. Would love to learn more about what happens after Devlin Stone awakes.

As long as HBS can steer a clearer path than MWO did then I can see it being the biggest boon to the TT to happen in a long, LONG time.

AMEN! Brother

Daryk

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #5 on: 15 May 2017, 17:15:23 »
HBS lost me when they abandoned the table top rules, even though I backed the Kickstarter.

Fear Factory

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #6 on: 15 May 2017, 18:49:27 »
HBS lost me when they abandoned the table top rules, even though I backed the Kickstarter.

It's not much different.

Considering how there is no available box set for this board game, and there probably won't be another one out by the time the game comes out, everything will probably stay stagnant as it has been.
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Daryk

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #7 on: 15 May 2017, 19:10:39 »
What I've seen in the updates is significantly different, to include an explicit abandonment of table top.  I wish HBS the best, but don't expect to be playing their game much.  I enjoyed playing through their version of Shadowrun once, and it wasn't anything like that table top ruleset.  I haven't played it since, and don't expect to again.

Frogfoot

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #8 on: 15 May 2017, 20:06:23 »
Personally I don't mind a differing ruleset. AS, TW and AToW all play out mech fights differently. I used to play in a MW4 league and that was substantially different to tabletop too. I can understand people being disappointed that their initial expectations weren't met, but the game may have a lot of merit in its own right.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #9 on: 15 May 2017, 20:25:01 »
Have they indicated what got changed?
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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #10 on: 15 May 2017, 20:47:42 »
Have they indicated what got changed?

Judging from the alpha shown: turn sequence (you move one 'Mech and shoot immediately after) and missile damage (I guess, they did a fixed amount). That's what I spotted.

Feenix74

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #11 on: 15 May 2017, 22:26:52 »
Back in 1988, I first discovered Battletech through Crescent Hawks Inception computer game, I have been hooked to the universe ever since (I did have a 12 year sabbatical due to work and family commitments). Over the years, I have spent several thousand dollars on novels, sourcebooks, maps, miniatures, etc. So if my personal experience is anything to go by, then hopefully it will lead to renewed and sustained interest in all things Battletech.
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SteelRaven

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2017, 22:52:15 »
Not sure how much it will do for the Table Top but it will introduce more people to the BTU and that's a good thing.

Judging from the alpha shown: turn sequence (you move one 'Mech and shoot immediately after) and missile damage (I guess, they did a fixed amount). That's what I spotted.

... that is a very minor change consider it's how most turn based strategy games works (it's actually how I played the game when I first started :P ) It's like being angry that MechCommander was a RTS.
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CrazyGrasshopper

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #13 on: 16 May 2017, 00:24:31 »
... that is a very minor change consider it's how most turn based strategy games works (it's actually how I played the game when I first started :P ) It's like being angry that MechCommander was a RTS.

I'm not angry at all (yet). I'll judge after it will be released. Though, I'd prefer missiles to do damage like they do in the tabletop, otherwise they loose their flavor.

StoneRhino

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #14 on: 16 May 2017, 08:23:26 »
The problem is that TT anything is still the niche of the niche. We need something akin to Final Fantasy 7, which made being a gamer acceptable. People that gave other people crap for playing video games suddenly called themselves gamers because they played the latest John Madden football game.

To be honest the most likely gain for TT anything will be through some big 40k video game that is tied hard to the TT. That will get people into the game shops and book stores. From there people could discover Battletech among other games.

As for MWO, I know that we have had people pass by in the shop and recognize it as MWO. We haven't made any conversions since these people tend to have already heavily invested in another game and make the comment of "i can't afford another minis game". Which is understandable since the 40k stuff that I purchased last year is semi assembled or still in the box. Time and money is anything but free.

The most positive is likely to be that the game is going to be far closer to the TT then MWO. That will make going from one game to another much easier. Just as it would be difficult to get a Madden Football XY year player to go to Final Fantasy games, so is going from MWO to BT TT without experience with similar games acting as a bridge. If they get into HBS BT then it will be a lot easier to get into BT TT. However, the challenge there will be how much advertising HBS does for the game, if any. How much people pay attention to new games coming out, especially those that they know nothing about.

Will it get people who meet up for a game to decide to stay home and play the video game? There are always those that will, I know one for sure that has been trying to get everyone to use megamek instead so he doesnt need to leave his bedroom, but that has been ignored as the rest appear to want to meet up for a game instead of sitting in front of a computer. I am in front of a computer long enough during the week that the last thing that i really want to do is sit around looking at it when I could be doing something IRL.

mbear

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #15 on: 16 May 2017, 08:27:08 »
Judging from the alpha shown: turn sequence (you move one 'Mech and shoot immediately after)

I think they said in a message that they did this so that you'd have an incentive to play light mechs. Otherwise people just ignored them as useless. So the light mechs could move first and shoot or delay their fire/movement until after other units had moved/fired. (Sounds kind of like a modified "banking the initiative" behavior.)

Of course I could be wrong as I all too often am. ;)
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elf25s

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #16 on: 16 May 2017, 09:31:47 »
as i had seen so far the boxes available on secondary markets like amazon and hellbay price wise quite a lot some boxes can go as high as 450 usd or more
this seems to had extended to older editions of the bt along with a lot of tro.

so it looks like the bubble is about to go pop for price and demand...
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NeonKnight

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #17 on: 16 May 2017, 10:08:12 »
I think they said in a message that they did this so that you'd have an incentive to play light mechs. Otherwise people just ignored them as useless. So the light mechs could move first and shoot or delay their fire/movement until after other units had moved/fired. (Sounds kind of like a modified "banking the initiative" behavior.)

Of course I could be wrong as I all too often am. ;)

It also very much allows for lights more than any other type of mech to get a Double Whammy.

Delay a Light from Phase 4 (Default) to Phase 1, then run in and BAM - Shoot your Opponent. New round resets, and Phase 4, before the target can react, either BAM! Shoot again, or Run away without a counter attack being dealt.
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Maelwys

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #18 on: 16 May 2017, 12:51:12 »
There could be a couple of upsides for CGL. One is that people who haven't looked at BT in a while might see the game and look into the tabletop again and purchase some things. The second is that people that play the game might be interested enough to try to learn more and come here and learn more. Lets face it, if you got into the game from playing one of the MechWarrior games, and then you found out there was a "Clan Wolf" sourcebook, you might be interested in purchasing it. The third of course is that someone that gets into BT from the video game might get into the boardgame and start buying (There was a FASA flyer/promo/order form in a boxed set that included Crescent Hawk's Inception, Revenge and the first MW for instance, which I'm sure returned some dividends).

The problem with the second is that CGL doesn't have anything about the new faction for sale. So if someone comes here looking for say, a sourcebook that further details the new faction, they're going to be SOL. And unless CGL hurries or goes out of order, they're not going to have to a 3rd Succession War book out either. So they lose out there as well.

They could put out a PDF sourcebook. Something smaller than a normal sourcebook in the hope that they're going to make some sales on people drawn in by the computer game. They haven't announced anything like that, but it could be in the works, with the idea to publish it once the video game releases. People show up, purchase that, and if they like it, maybe they buy the various Succession Wars products to find out the histories.

Of course, this does raise a question or two. Who exactly owns the copyrights for the new faction? I assume its Harebrained Studios, so is CGL going to be allowed to use the information? Considering how camera shy they are about outside IP, are they going to take the risk? Is it worth dedicating writing time and finishing time to the product?

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #19 on: 16 May 2017, 15:36:58 »
There could be a couple of upsides for CGL. One is that people who haven't looked at BT in a while might see the game and look into the tabletop again and purchase some things. The second is that people that play the game might be interested enough to try to learn more and come here and learn more. Lets face it, if you got into the game from playing one of the MechWarrior games, and then you found out there was a "Clan Wolf" sourcebook, you might be interested in purchasing it. The third of course is that someone that gets into BT from the video game might get into the boardgame and start buying (There was a FASA flyer/promo/order form in a boxed set that included Crescent Hawk's Inception, Revenge and the first MW for instance, which I'm sure returned some dividends).

The problem with the second is that CGL doesn't have anything about the new faction for sale. So if someone comes here looking for say, a sourcebook that further details the new faction, they're going to be SOL. And unless CGL hurries or goes out of order, they're not going to have to a 3rd Succession War book out either. So they lose out there as well.

They could put out a PDF sourcebook. Something smaller than a normal sourcebook in the hope that they're going to make some sales on people drawn in by the computer game. They haven't announced anything like that, but it could be in the works, with the idea to publish it once the video game releases. People show up, purchase that, and if they like it, maybe they buy the various Succession Wars products to find out the histories.

Of course, this does raise a question or two. Who exactly owns the copyrights for the new faction? I assume its Harebrained Studios, so is CGL going to be allowed to use the information? Considering how camera shy they are about outside IP, are they going to take the risk? Is it worth dedicating writing time and finishing time to the product?

Pretty sure CGL have already said that they will not be putting out any related material, a source book for the new faction would be something that could cause issue but I see no reason why CGL could not say commission some fiction set around the era.

I know we have loads.. BUT the idea is to net people in remember, they do not have to feature the new faction but maybe some of the more sphere spanning things (We know that at least one of the good guys is of Lyran decent and that there is a member of the Centrella family in there), possibly a deal can be brought in to provide "backstory" without actually using any of the games IP.


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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #20 on: 16 May 2017, 18:42:03 »
I recall after playing Mechwarrior 2, Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries, and Mechwarrior 3 my friends got into Battletech including buying some of the tabletop games.  SO in my experience this can work and those games at least built mech in a similar manner as the table top game.

Feenix74

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #21 on: 16 May 2017, 19:23:47 »
Pretty sure CGL have already said that they will not be putting out any related material, a source book for the new faction would be something that could cause issue but I see no reason why CGL could not say commission some fiction set around the era.

I know we have loads.. BUT the idea is to net people in remember, they do not have to feature the new faction but maybe some of the more sphere spanning things (We know that at least one of the good guys is of Lyran decent and that there is a member of the Centrella family in there), possibly a deal can be brought in to provide "backstory" without actually using any of the games IP.

We have a Spotlight On: Crescent Hawks, a unit who's origin was the computer game. We know that CGL are working together with HBS on the backstory for the new Battletech computer game, so I would assume a faction sourcebook or a unit spotlight or a turnpoint book tied to the new Battletech computer game would not be impossible.
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Ice_Trey

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #22 on: 16 May 2017, 21:47:12 »
Of course, I could see how the PC of the early 90s would have been an upset for tabletop gaming of the era. Suddenly, all the gaming depth of minis gaming could be done just as easily from home without even putting on a pair of pants. The same could eventually be said about the Super Nintendo, too. Japan also had an RPG bubble from the late 80s to the early-mid 90s. I don't think it's that unlikely that video game technologies' improvement is part of the culprit. The other part being that many gamers of the era probably enjoyed the game first and foremost, and the social aspect and leaving the house was more the necessary evil attached to it. That's partly why I feel that Megamek is a double-edged sword. It allows people who have difficulty finding games to get to play Battletech, but it also enables people to not put an effort in to find players, taking gamers out of the LGS where they'd be recruiting new players, and instead putting them in front of their computers.

As far as how HBS goes for introducing players to the game? It will introduce - some - players to the franchise for sure. However, there are way more people interested in first person Battletech games than third person, and the tactical games that have the most draw are the RTS base-building types of games, which doesn't really fit the Battletech setting that well. I think the biggest draws for those who are into tabletop gaming are going to be how atmospheric and well written HBS's title is, because if the game is well done, there will be the craving to experience more of said setting. Maybe I'm projecting, but that's no small part of how I got into the Battletech setting through playing Mechwarrior 2.

In the early days, before PGI's actions (or inactions) with MWO led to a shift in community atmosphere from hopeful positivity to frustration and toxicity, the combination of the easy-to-access game and the true-to-the-tabletop customization system and criticals table made a sudden surge of people interested in playing tabletop Battletech. My player group exploded from maybe one guy playing a match each month to having so many players I needed to come to the LGS on both the Saturdays and Sundays I had off to accommodate them. I'm not sure what the situation is now, but I can say that if you put out a game that's fun to play and has adequate synergy with the tabletop game, you'll be able to get more players. I'm hoping that it's still driving interest in playing analog Battletech and that all publicity is good publicity. I don't mind the fundamental mechanics of the game that much, but the market they targeted doesn't seem the type who'd get into fluff-heavy wargaming settings. Depending on how they handle it though, Mechwarrior 5 could potentially be a positive step, so long as they put the effort in. Personally, I think having a game that is immersive, engaging, and atmospheric trumps how powerful the graphics engine is any day of the week.

Of course, getting yourself out to the LGS and pounding the pavement looking for players is what is most important. Most instances I've seen of players complaining that nobody plays the game usually involve their not taking any steps to find or recruit them - just expecting them to be actively playing at their LGS when they walk in. It was only after really starting to get proactive at my LGS that I discovered that there were plenty of people in my town who knew how to play Battletech and/or wanted to play, it's just that none of them put the effort in to get in contact with other people they might not potentially know.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2017, 21:51:51 by Ice_Trey »

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #23 on: 17 May 2017, 07:18:38 »
I actually have some data on this, from the BattleTech survey a couple months ago. I just need to work on crunching the numbers; separating out the 5,500+ respondents by where they came from (CGL, HBS, PGI, other) is proving much harder than I'd hoped.
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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #24 on: 17 May 2017, 19:25:16 »
My intro to battle tech was the "PowerPack" of CHI, CHR, and MW1. That got me to buy my first battle tech boom which was "price of glory".

If the HBS is a success it can be nothing but good of CGL.

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #25 on: 18 May 2017, 16:37:36 »
I don't really see a problem with HBS creating a game that isn't "pure" BattleTech.  Let's face it, what works on the tabletop doesn't always translate so well into a Computer game, and vice versa.  Could they make a game that was 100% accurate to Total Warfare standards?  I'm pretty sure they could.  But would that game be judged as more worthy amongst its peers in the computer gaming world for doing so?  Harder to say. 

I'm interested to see what they come out with, and will reserve judgment until then
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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #26 on: 18 May 2017, 21:47:12 »
I never said it was a "problem", just that they lost my interest.  It seemed from the initial hype that they were aiming for something closer to tabletop rules than they're now flogging.  I don't fault them for trying to sell a computer game.  It's just not what I was expecting based on their initial statements.  If anything, I should have known better based on how their take on Shadowrun turned out...

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #27 on: 21 May 2017, 06:11:24 »
Any Battletech is good Battletech, as far as I'm concerned. It all adds to the global buzz of interest. Playing on-screen will make some people want to try out painting minis, rollin' dice, coloring in the bubbles. 
Will it make some people who already do those things stop, just to play video games?  I guess I just don't think so.  Video gaming is  already so ubiquitous and common, that anybody who likes that stuff is already playing that way, whether MWO or any number of the eleventy-bazillion other options out there.
I think that the way the demographics of hobby interest are liable to swing back, there are more TT gamers to be won from video gamers than TT gamers would be lost to video.  Leastways, I hope so.

And I'm super excited for the release of the new video game, myself.  I like both kinds.
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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #28 on: 22 May 2017, 18:08:19 »
I'm not angry at all (yet). I'll judge after it will be released. Though, I'd prefer missiles to do damage like they do in the tabletop, otherwise they loose their flavor.

The way missiles work in the HBS game is that they roll to hit individually and do damage individually, but are weighted towards the first area of impact. So an LRM 15 rolls 15 times to hit, the ones that do hit roll location separately but cluster around the first location rolled.

Not a bad change, it'd simply be way to cumbersome for a TT game.

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Domi1981

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Re: How will the Battletech computer game affect tabletop BT?
« Reply #29 on: 24 May 2017, 09:04:51 »
I think its a kind of "Battletech is dead, long live Battletech"-situation. What we see is the tabletop game finally dying. The legals rights situation is crippling, new players wont find their way into the game because it´s not advertised and you have no starter box (who buys into a product that he can´t crasp due to lack of accessible information?), the management barely communicates with fans being angry about how the brand gets treated. And since barely anything gets on the market any more the few fans get frustrated (how long are people waiting now for the retconned mechs? 2 years? 3 years? I don´t know and I don´t care anymore). There is no viable progress with Battletech anymore. Sadly.
Then there is Battletech the video game. You have trailers, a proper working modern forum, staff commenting and communicating, Q&As etc. It´s a good feeling of progress and participation creating a momentum of unity. So I think I will have to accept that I have to let loose of that dying game (so short after I realised that it didn´t die back in 2001) and be thankful that I could get a hold on some new minis during the last years and adapt to the new age of sitting in front of a monitor playing with a CPU or people I don´t see and know.