IlClan timeline and contents speculation

[Empyrus]

Minor spoiler warning.

Entries here are from TRO3150 and XTRO RotS 3. Since both are a couple of years old, i wouldn't really call these spoilers, if not for the fact IlClan will almost certainly detail these events and so these can be regarded as spoilers for IlClan.

I went over TRO3150 and XTRO RotS 3 entries few months ago and wrote down everything interesting and arranged them in rough chronological order. For whatever reason, i haven't posted them despite that being the plan but fortunately i noticed the txt file with these. There may be mistakes, so don't take this as real, correct timeline.


Late 3145
-"In December of 3145, Julian Davion’s Task Force Navarre hit Menkalinan."

3146
-Republic-FedSuns pact renewed.
-Battle of Marlette.
-Ghost Bear raid on Arkab?
-Duchy of Andurien assaults Oriente Protectorate.
-January: Wolf Empire raid on Alkes
-January: Raid on New Canton by FedSuns
-February: Assassination attemps against Wolf Empire officials on conquered Solaris VII begin, last over year.
-February: Jade Falcons raid Ludwigshafen.
-April: Pirate raid on Filtvelt Coalition.
-May: Clan Sea Fox attacks Pleione.
-May: Three-way figting between Capellans, Dracs and FedSuns on Deneb Kaitos.
-September: Jade Falcons assault Ark-Royal. Fall of Ark-Royal.

3147
-FedSuns counterattacks New Syrtis, 3 month battle. Capellan terrorism devastates the planet over the year and the next.
-LCAF strikes preemptively on Valloire.
-FedSuns Operation CERBERUS.
-First Davion Guards raid/counterattack Franklin.
-Late: Kisho Nova Cat's Wendigo appears on a village on Almunge.
-April: Marian Commowealth attacks Marik worlds, including Kendall.
-May: Ghost Bear raid on Yamarovka.
-June: Julian Davion meets with FedSuns nobility.

3147-3148
-Buena Collective formed? Fighting between Buena Collective and Lyran Commonwealth.
-Campaign to recapture New Syrtis.
-Sactions on Regulus by Clan Sea Fox, Regulus dependent on Sea Fox trade?
-FedSuns raid Draconis Combine worlds.
-Captain-General Jessica Marik assassinated

3148
-Julian Davion fights on New Syrtis against Capellan invaders.
-RotS Remnant raid on Kalidasa, encouter Ryoken III-XP.
-Resistance against Jade Falcon occupiers across Donegal Province.
-Early: Jade Falcons attack Coventry, the Battle of Coventry.
-Late: Sixteenth Hastati Sentinel raid Ruchbah beyond the Wall.
-March: First Andurien Rangers fight with First Marik Protectors on unclaimed world between Duchy of Andurien and Regulus.
-July: Oriente wins Oriente-Regulus war. Regulans prepared a nuclear attack before their surrender, some forces gone AWOL with nukes.
-August 14: Joyeux Corsaire pirates raid Protectorate
-August: Deep strike on Remagen by Draconis Combine

3149
-Fighting on Addicks between the Twelfth Hastati and Fourth Dieron Regulars.
-Early: CapCon captures Hall.
-June: attack on Protectorate Arms factory on Diik by the Lying Tongue Company of the Abominari pirate band.
-June: Wolf Empire invades Dubne, RotS Remnant defends but loses and retreats from the world.

3150
-Early: Fortress Walls come down.

Unknown:
-Joint Capellan-Draconis Combine invasion on Ingress against the Republic.
-Nineteenth Battle of Hesperus II.
-Hell's Horses Operation NOYAN, assault on New Oslo.
-Jade Falcons and Hell's Horses clash on Leskovik. Alliance unraveling, tensions mounting.
-Davion counterattack on Palmyra.
-Davion operation PERCEVAL.


Notes:
-Field Manual 3145 and Era Report 3145 stop before December in '45, before the first point happens.
-I'm not sure if 19th Battle of Hesperus II is the one where Malvina Hazen was injured or if it is a newer battle that happens sometime between 3145-3150.
-I would guess Operation PERCEVAL is the counterattack on Palmyra but both are referred rather vaguely in the TRO so not sure.
-There is little talk about 3150. Presumably the biggest events will happen then. We know there will be an IlClan. We know Alaric Ward will duel with Devlin Stone. (I think there was a preview of IlClan cover somewhere, which portrays the duel, and the way i hear it, the duel happened in an event few years back.)
-Whether the timeline extends beyond 3150 in IlClan is unknown. Ben H. Rome's comments in news threads indicated the original plan was for things to end in 3150, but how much of the original plan remains is unknown. That said, 3150 is a nice round number, and timeline jumping forward exactly 100 years is another nice round number.
-The Fortress Republic's Walls are referred in plural. Whether this is figurative or literal is unknown. I would assume literal, it is more likely the Fortress is created by multiple devices rather than just one, if you ask me.

[Scotty]

Don't forget that immediately preceding the League-Regulan conflict is the assassination of Jessica Marik.  We don't know for certain who took over yet, but my money is on Nicol.

[Empyrus]

So i did miss something?

EDIT By the way, i don't think i collected every little thing from the TRO. Just those that are either major or had rough timing at least. Obviously an assassination is a major event...

EDIT Found the note about the assassination. Not sure about timing, added it to unknown category with timing guess.

[Scotty]

I want to say, from memory, that there's a single sentence that mentions the conflict with Regulus lasted roughly six months.  That'd put the assassination of Jessica Marik at either the very end of 3147 or beginning of 3148.  Gut (and unsubstantiated) feeling I'd put it at late December 3147.

[Empyrus]

Well, i do have 3147-3148 category... Moved the assassination there.

[Wrangler]

Great list.

Hopefully we'll get more soon in some form before the IlClan book drops

[Kit deSummersville]

-September: Jade Falcons assault Ark-Royal. Fall of Ark-Royal.

How seasonally accurate.

[Empyrus]

Pun not intended but now that it has been pointed out, it is a rather fine pun in my opinion...  [blank]

[Foxx Ital]

Thanks for putting it all together!

[Jellico]

How seasonally accurate.

If in the right hemisphere.

[Empyrus]

If in the right hemisphere.

What if it is the left hemisphere?

[sadlerbw]

Ok, just to get back on track with the 'speculation' part of the thread:

I'm thinking it looks like a pretty safe bet that the walls coming down around the Republic will take the pressure off the FedSuns and stop the shrinkage it has been seeing recently. I don't know if there will be much pushback or not, e.g. will New Syrtis come back into the Suns solidly? Is Robinson just a write-off now? I could see them leaving the 'Dragon's Tongue' or whatever it was they called that protuberance of worlds the Combine took out by the Raven Alliance.

Also, the Wolves will get to Terra. First? As part of an alliance? Will they win? Who knows, but I think it is pretty much settled that they will be fighting on Terra. Just looking at the force dispositions in FM3145, they have the most forces concentrated and ready right at the doorstep of the republic.

I think the CapCon and the Combine will finally get to share a bit of a border...and they are NOT going to like each other. I don't know if it will last long, or if the FedSuns will be allowed to have a path to Terra again before the book ends, but I could see ilClan leaving the FedSuns without a route to Terra.

Devlin Stone will die. Not sure when or how, but I think his ticket is going to get punched. I don't have any evidence, I just think its likely.

[Empyrus]

Do note that the Republic will survive in some form very likely. Second Succession War framing note refers to an "Exarch".

I do wonder if Devlin Stone is willing to submit the Republic to a Clan. Perhaps Alaric will kill him in a duel, because somehow Stone doesn't seem to be a guy who submits. He is a conqueror (though with good intentions) and a leader... but his stubbornest is arguably in his name. If so, his successor will probably surrender.

Of course, while the IlClan is the Clan that rules Earth, in my opinion there is unspoken requirement of holding Terra. If you're not strong enough to hold the planet, then you cannot be the real IlClan.
Another thing to consider is that if other Clans actually submit to the IlClan. On paper, they should... but let's be real, what's left of the Clan honor doesn't necessarily extend to that. I doubt that whoever manages to conquer and hold Terra has both the strength to hold it, and to beat others into submission. Not without help...

[Gus]

Devlin Stone will die. Not sure when or how, but I think his ticket is going to get punched. I don't have any evidence, I just think its likely.

Or disappears/fakes his own death and goes back into cryohibernation...

[Empyrus]

Or disappears/fakes his own death and goes back into cryohibernation...

"I'm back! To prove that the people of Inner Sphere do not care for warrior-conquerors!....Wait, why haven't people overthrown the IlClan yet? Shit, i'll shoot another friend and go back to cryo hibernation..."

[Red Pins]

I like the idea the lowering of the walls will take pressure off the FS - sort of says, "You're so screwed, only fiat can save you!"  A far cry from the 4th SW.  About time too.  What was that line, something about every faction getting kicked in the crotch, on a regular basis?  Seems to me they needed an abject lesson about the universe they live in, orienting to defense rather than offense.

And seriously, why was there no stockpiling or cheating the agreements?  Everybody does that!  Especially sandwiched between the DC and CC.  At least they haven't pulled a miracle weapon out of the hat, yet.

[Iracundus]

I like the idea the lowering of the walls will take pressure off the FS - sort of says, "You're so screwed, only fiat can save you!"  A far cry from the 4th SW.  About time too.  What was that line, something about every faction getting kicked in the crotch, on a regular basis?  Seems to me they needed an abject lesson about the universe they live in, orienting to defense rather than offense.

And seriously, why was there no stockpiling or cheating the agreements?  Everybody does that!  Especially sandwiched between the DC and CC.  At least they haven't pulled a miracle weapon out of the hat, yet.

I thought the reason given for why the FS was caught so flat footed was a combination of Harrison Davion buying into the Stone Kool-Aid and thus disarming with relatively little cheating compared to the CC and DC, and then Caleb Davion's badly thought out "reforms" and then him getting a good chunk of the AFFS wiped out on Palmyra.

[marauder648]

"I'm back! To prove that the people of Inner Sphere do not care for warrior-conquerors!....Wait, why haven't people overthrown the IlClan yet? Shit, i'll shoot another friend and go back to cryo hibernation..."

"I'm not a bad man! I'm just written that way."

D. Stone.  Possibly.

[Iracundus]

"I'm not a bad man! I'm just written that way."

D. Stone.  Possibly.

“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." 

That's what I see happening to him.

[pheonixstorm]

And on that day.. that... thing that we woke up... It... It wasn't the man we put to sleep. It was a monster, something we tell out children about at bedtime. What happened to our savior?!?

[marauder648]

I'm just thinking of who it could be.

lets break it down.

Most likely suspects

Clan Jade Falcon - This is BAD END if Malvina becomes ilKhan as she's basically omnicidal and pretty much Smoke Jaguars at their worst kinds of evil.  But the Falcons still have a lot of worlds in the way.  They have ostendibly the strongest fleet assets left in the Inner Sphere save the Ravens  and are the most willing to use them with a Cameron and several Aegis class ships IIRC, she's also most likely to use orbital bombardment to force the issue. 

But she's surrounded by enemies and I think everyone would try and stop her in her drive for Terra because of the fear of a reign of terror if she became ilKhan. 

Clan Wolf - Technically the closest and with some possibly 'legitimate' claim at the Lyran throne the Empire is in the best position as they have the still somewhat fractured Mariks around them who are not overly a threat and seemingly content to leave the Wolves alone.  But their Tourman is battered and they still don't have many factories up and running to replace losses.  An assault on Terra once the walls go down would be an all or nothing roll of the dice.

The less usual suspects

Clan Hells Horses - They would want to do it but don't have the forces to do so as far as I know.  If anything the Horses would probably throw themselves at Malvina and co, if the Falcons went all in for Terra. They know what the Falcons have become and its not good.

The unusual suspect

Clan Ghost Bear/Dominion - Whilst having one of the largest coherent militaries in the Inner Sphere, as well as two Leviathan class battleships assuming the Leviathan III has launched, the Bears/Dominion seems to not have the actual will to go for Terra, to the point they don't seem bothered about it and are happy where they are. 

[ANS Kamas P81]

With a Roshak loremaster (IIRC) and a ... remarkably greenburd attitude, it's heavily pushing towards CJF claiming the title in 3250.  Granted that's likely an accurate red herring; by 3250 they'll be the IlClan - but it'd be too easy to be that way to start with, and battletech is all about strategic reversals of fortune and 'your turn in the crotchkicking seat' IMO.

[marauder648]

I'm looking forwards to what ever comes though.  But if the Falcons do get it..I really hope Malvina eats a high velocty bolt of particles or large chunk of metal before her Clan claims victory.  We do NOt want her as ilKhan.

[Maingunnery]

I suspect that the Council of Six has been fooling everyone and the joining of all the IS Clans is the IlClan.

[marauder648]

I suspect that the Council of Six has been fooling everyone and the joining of all the IS Clans is the IlClan.

Thats a possibility, it would stop a sudden and near suicidal race for Terra by the survivng Clans whilst the Foxes sell Mech's to everyone, making so much cash they can literally do the Scrooge McDuck swimming in money thing. 

Or basically its a case of "Look you're doing the whole succession wars 'thing' again, so you know what. Screw it. We're ALL in charge now."

But at the same time, I think we kind of want to see a climactic battle for it. 

[ajcbm]

Odds are the ROTS will move into the FedSuns. Julian Davion will become the new Exarch.

It solves the FS problem of not having enough troops or any warships.

[marauder648]

Odds are the ROTS will move into the FedSuns. Julian Davion will become the new Exarch.

It solves the FS problem of not having enough troops or any warships.

Or something that comes REALLY far off the Left Field. The Fedelis show up in large numbers and go "Hi we're Clan." and grab Terra or are given it by Stone or something.

[jimdigris]

There are two other possibilities for IlClan. 
1. The Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens team up.  The Ravens clear a path and the Bears seize the real estate.
2. The Adders take complete control over the Homeworlds and build a force that can stomp over everything in the Sphere.

[ajcbm]

There are two other possibilities for IlClan. 
1. The Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens team up.  The Ravens clear a path and the Bears seize the real estate.
2. The Adders take complete control over the Homeworlds and build a force that can stomp over everything in the Sphere.

The Homeworld Clans are a spent force. They don't have the numbers or tech edge now to even beat one Successor State.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

The Homeworld Clans are a spent force. They don't have the numbers or tech edge now to even beat one Successor State.

As of 3085: we know nothing of what happened for the past 60 years or so...

[Vition2]

The Homeworld Clans are a spent force. They don't have the numbers or tech edge now to even beat one Successor State.

This is actually something we don't know for sure, particularly with the Adders being pre-eminant in the homeworlds.  We've seen very quick industrial build-ups (most of the Inner Sphere powers in the post-Tukayyid invasion era), and we've seen very quick military build-ups (WoB in the period prior to their Jihad).  So the potential is there for them to be a major threat, though I agree it isn't a likely threat based on the way the setting tends to go.

[Maingunnery]

This is actually something we don't know for sure, particularly with the Adders being pre-eminant in the homeworlds.  We've seen very quick industrial build-ups (most of the Inner Sphere powers in the post-Tukayyid invasion era), and we've seen very quick military build-ups (WoB in the period prior to their Jihad).  So the potential is there for them to be a major threat, though I agree it isn't a likely threat based on the way the setting tends to go.

Considering that we haven't heard from them in a while, I think that either the other HW Clans dogpiled the Adders, or that the HW Clans abandoned the HWs.

[RotS fan]

As of 3085: we know nothing of what happened for the past 60 years or so...

We know that the Coyotes invaded the Escorpión Império circa 3100

[Red Pins]

The home world Clans have had time, more time than they would like, I imagine.  Even the strategic aspect of the Adders would have a hard time restraining the other Clans without the 'taint' aspect, and they would at least realize poking their heads into a new SW over the remains of the Republic would be less than ideal timing.

I suspect the home world's will be left alone, to evolve politically rather than militarily, to be poked into action at some point to reprise the Jaguars/Outbound Light scenario.  If not, IlClan will be a case of a massive ambush; the Walls delayed an assault, but when those walls come down, they make an assault on the most heavily populated and military\Industrial planet in human space and whisper, "You could rule it all, you did before..."

If its an IS Clan (and I believe it will) then its going to be a case of opportunism.  Looking over the beaten, exhausted enemy, the IlClan will go for it - and my money's on the Bears.  It was a desire to 'rescue'  the citizens of Rasalhauge (sp) that led them to build the Dominion, a major assault that threatens the civilian population (something the Falcons would consider, in their current mindset, let alone the Capellans or Dracs) that might lead them to try and save the Republic Rump.

And nothing says they have to keep Terra.  Just 'reach' it, which I take means militarily controlling it, even for a short period.

After that, I expect a time jump.  It won't matter much to me; I don't even have an opponent here anymore, I buy product based on what I need to develop my AU rather than play.

[SC_Dave]

Or something that comes REALLY far off the Left Field. The Fedelis show up in large numbers and go "Hi we're Clan." and grab Terra or are given it by Stone or something.

If we're going to throw a few "out there" scenarios around:

The Wolves, Jade Falcon & RotS forces are all grinding themselves down fighting for possession of Terra. Clan Wolverine, a.k.a The Minnesota Tribe, make a reappearance from the periphery and charge through the path of least resistance - the FWL.

One of the reasons the Wolverines were "annihilated" by the other clans was jealousy over their technological advances. The Wolverine remnants maintained their technology edge, have rebuilt their numbers, and hit Terra with enough force to conquer the 3 factions already fighting over it. The Wolverines thus become the IlClan and teach all the other clans a lesson for "annihilating" them. 

[worktroll]

The Wolves, Jade Falcon & RotS forces are all grinding themselves down fighting for possession of Terra.

Then Clan Purple Eagle (or some other name; Nova Sea Eagle) - the combination of the resurgent FWL, with the Nova Cat & Diamond Shark elements justifying their 'clan' identity, swing out, take Terra, and then spend the rest of history squabbling with each other, but uniting fanatically against any external opponent.

Other Clans take turns sending 'envoys' to examine this 'ilClan' from the inside, because they sure can't make sense of it outside. Stephen Roshak was a Jade Falcon envoy who discovers the perfect espresso on Terra, and allows himself to be absorbed for the sake of caffiene. Clan Nova Sea Eagle find he's sufficiently wired to keep on top of all the paperwork, and let him take the role so they can spend more time squabbling with each other.

You heard it here first!

W.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Stephen Roshak was a Jade Falcon envoy who discovers the perfect espresso on Terra, and allows himself to be absorbed for the sake of caffiene. Clan Nova Sea Eagle find he's sufficiently wired to keep on top of all the paperwork, and let him take the role so they can spend more time squabbling with each other.

This is now my headcanon.

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
-- Loremaster Stephen Roshak, January 3251

[worktroll]

[Empyrus]

This is now my headcanon.

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
-- Loremaster Stephen Roshak, January 3251

This variation of the Mentat Mantra is hilarious.  [blank]

...

This makes me wonder, which BT faction drinks most coffee? Considering that we Finns drink most coffee IRL (i don't drink any though), followed closely by other Nordic countries, i would assume Rasalhague worlds drink most since their culture largely derives from Nordic countries.

[Sartris]

Then Clan Purple Eagle (or some other name; Nova Sea Eagle) - the combination of the resurgent FWL, with the Nova Cat & Diamond Shark elements justifying their 'clan' identity, swing out, take Terra, and then spend the rest of history squabbling with each other, but uniting fanatically against any external opponent.

Other Clans take turns sending 'envoys' to examine this 'ilClan' from the inside, because they sure can't make sense of it outside. Stephen Roshak was a Jade Falcon envoy who discovers the perfect espresso on Terra, and allows himself to be absorbed for the sake of caffiene. Clan Nova Sea Eagle find he's sufficiently wired to keep on top of all the paperwork, and let him take the role so they can spend more time squabbling with each other.

You heard it here first!

W.

[Easy]

One day, somebody is going to get just pissed off enough to nuke Terra and every planet within a jump or two and end the dream of a New Hegemony once and for all.

[sadlerbw]

I could see Terra becoming one big, smoking ruin at some point. Maybe not during ilClan, but if they do the time jump, I could see Terra being turned into a well-irradiated rock at some point in between. It's still pretty valuable as a manufacturing world and for prestige reasons so I don't think it is likely, but I'll admit it is possible. The only way I see it happening in ilClan is if someone beats Malvina there and she nukes it out of spite. She seems vengeful enough to think that if she can't have it, no one can.

As for the Bears, I really don't see them rushing for Terra. First, they have made a pretty good home and haven't been inclined to go conquering for a while now. They don't generally get into a big fight unless someone else starts it these days. Besides, their leadership is civilian now, so even if the Military WANTED to go for Terra, I think there would be an internal fight with the government to stop them from doing so. Plus, the vast majority of their nation is within one jump of an enemy state that has proven willing to attack. Pretty much everything south of Tukayyid is within one jump of TWO hostile nations! Where the heck would they pull troops from to mount an invasion without stripping some piece of their border? Even if you get past all that, the region of RasDom space closest to Terra isn't exactly well-integrated and on-board with the grand plan. They are fairly independent and may not take kindly to an invasion force coming through their region. This all makes me think the Bears aren't likely to be much interested in Terra anymore.

[BrokenMnemonic]

Devlin Stone's chosen successor challenges the Clans who make it to Terra over the right to declare an ilKhan/ilClan, wins, and redefines "ilClan" as "the new military wing of the Third Star League", then watches CJF and CW battle each other to pieces in trials of position for ranks. The Lyran Commonwealth, relieved of pressure on both fronts, fuels the conflict by trading war material to both Clans in exchange for planets, the Archon marries the Grand Duke of Oriente and everyone laughs when the Rasalhague Dominion decides to avoid a Fourth Combine-Dominion war by conquering the entire Draconis Combine before declaring it a giant nature preserve and transplants dinosaurs from Caph to every world in an effort to create ghost bear/dinosaur hybrids. The Fox's Teeth look at the hybrids, use them as battle armour mounts and invade the Confederation, which keeps losing because the AFFS keeps painting the dinosaurs purple and no-one can take them seriously.

[worktroll]

I'd pay for that product!  O0

[Wrangler]

Devlin Stone's chosen successor challenges the Clans who make it to Terra over the right to declare an ilKhan/ilClan, wins, and redefines "ilClan" as "the new military wing of the Third Star League", then watches CJF and CW battle each other to pieces in trials of position for ranks. The Lyran Commonwealth, relieved of pressure on both fronts, fuels the conflict by trading war material to both Clans in exchange for planets, the Archon marries the Grand Duke of Oriente and everyone laughs when the Rasalhague Dominion decides to avoid a Fourth Combine-Dominion war by conquering the entire Draconis Combine before declaring it a giant nature preserve and transplants dinosaurs from Caph to every world in an effort to create ghost bear/dinosaur hybrids. The Fox's Teeth look at the hybrids, use them as battle armour mounts and invade the Confederation, which keeps losing because the AFFS keeps painting the dinosaurs purple and no-one can take them seriously.

NO!!! That's been done! Their called Dino-riders!

[mbear]

Devlin Stone's chosen successor challenges the Clans who make it to Terra over the right to declare an ilKhan/ilClan, wins, and redefines "ilClan" as "the new military wing of the Third Star League", then watches CJF and CW battle each other to pieces in trials of position for ranks. The Lyran Commonwealth, relieved of pressure on both fronts, fuels the conflict by trading war material to both Clans in exchange for planets, the Archon marries the Grand Duke of Oriente and everyone laughs when the Rasalhague Dominion decides to avoid a Fourth Combine-Dominion war by conquering the entire Draconis Combine before declaring it a giant nature preserve and transplants dinosaurs from Caph to every world in an effort to create ghost bear/dinosaur hybrids. The Fox's Teeth look at the hybrids, use them as battle armour mounts and invade the Confederation, which keeps losing because the AFFS keeps painting the dinosaurs purple and no-one can take them seriously.

I think BrokenMnemonic has won this thread.

[Hammerpilot IIC]

I think BrokenMnemonic has won this thread.

So he's the ilPoster?

[Dahmin_Toran]

Don't forget that immediately preceding the League-Regulan conflict is the assassination of Jessica Marik.  We don't know for certain who took over yet, but my money is on Nicol.

I hope Kenyon Marik takes the throne. The Free Worlds League needs a real Marik. Who takes over the Principality of Regulus?

[jklantern]

NO!!! That's been done! Their called Dino-riders!

You are literally the first person I've found outside my family who knows about Dino-Riders.

[Sartris]

You are literally the first person I've found outside my family who knows about Dino-Riders.

Now you know two. It's a reference I never use because I assume no one remembers

[Øystein]

Bah, keep your Dino-Riders and give me Zoids any day of the week :D

[Talen5000]

As of 3085: we know nothing of what happened for the past 60 years or so...

That description was accurate as of 3085.

As of 3150, they'll have had over 60 years to rebuild and no Devlin Stone asking them to turn swords into ploughshares.

60 years would probably be more than enough time for them to rebuild and prepare and they'll likely have developed a couple of new toys of their own. Plus, they'll probably bring their fleet along.

Having said that, it would strike me as dramatically inappropriate to have them simply popup out of nowhere to become ilClan.

[Empyrus]

The Home Clans are basically written out of the story for now. I figure that they might reappear during the IlClan-era but no sooner (say, 3300s or so, earliest).

[Red Pins]

That description was accurate as of 3085.

As of 3150, they'll have had over 60 years to rebuild and no Devlin Stone asking them to turn swords into ploughshares.

60 years would probably be more than enough time for them to rebuild and prepare and they'll likely have developed a couple of new toys of their own. Plus, they'll probably bring their fleet along.

Having said that, it would strike me as dramatically inappropriate to have them simply popup out of nowhere to become ilClan.

Well, IS Clans have their Quadvees and their VDNI-equivalent, even with Stone's singing "kumbia" (sp).  Its likely they'll have something new, besides, Battletech is rules-driven, not miniature-driven.  There will be something new at some point.

And don't count out the "pop up out of nowhere to become ilClan"- gimmick.  People have been blind-sided by thinking like that before.

[glitterboy2098]

i doubt the homeworlds would generate all that much new technology by 3150.. remember that the society didn't really deploy much advanced tech the homeworlder's can actually use themselves (they got iATM's, ultraheavy proto's, and quad proto's, basically. they won't use the Nova CEWS's main advantage over watchdog CEWS, and the clans wouldn't use the computer viruses and gene targeted plagues.)
and with the purge of the scientist caste afterwards, and the extreme restrictions the new scientists have, i doubt we'd see much real innovation. especially since with only 4 clans left, in a space that once held a dozen and a half, and all the homeworlders being very devoted to using zell amoung themselves, there just isn't a lot of impetus to advance.

by comparison the IS clans have enemies all around them, have WOB tech and the inner sphere's crazy R&D to crib ideas from, and because the IS clans have been rather less paranoid about their scientists (aside from the falcons) the science cast has a bit more free reign to innovate.

[Red Pins]

i doubt the homeworlds would generate all that much new technology by 3150.. remember that the society didn't really deploy much advanced tech the homeworlder's can actually use themselves (they got iATM's, ultraheavy proto's, and quad proto's, basically. they won't use the Nova CEWS's main advantage over watchdog CEWS, and the clans wouldn't use the computer viruses and gene targeted plagues.)
and with the purge of the scientist caste afterwards, and the extreme restrictions the new scientists have, i doubt we'd see much real innovation. especially since with only 4 clans left, in a space that once held a dozen and a half, and all the homeworlders being very devoted to using zell amoung themselves, there just isn't a lot of impetus to advance.

by comparison the IS clans have enemies all around them, have WOB tech and the inner sphere's crazy R&D to crib ideas from, and because the IS clans have been rather less paranoid about their scientists (aside from the falcons) the science cast has a bit more free reign to innovate.

There were four - in 3085 (or whatever).  And I thought the Homeworld Scientists had their lethargy shaken off.  But I've reconsidered, a bit.  I think CGL will hold off, until it becomes the next era to re-introduce whatever they become.  To me, that means the Bears are gonna get front billing.  Rumors of a third Leviathan being laid down, and they've been quiet lately (in-Universe).  Probably just before a time jump to allow for the Homeworlds to finish whatever they decide to pull out of the sack, then the Bears will be crotch-kicked.

One thing for sure; there won't be any leaks, especially after the hissy-fit about the original '3250' timejump they were considering.  I wonder if we'll ever see the kind of technology-resetting wars like the 1st SW again.  The equipment charts are getting too big, time to trim them down a bit, or add unit types, or something.

[Gaiiten]

IMHO I believe there was a secret contact between the Homeworlds and the Inner Sphere leaders, wherein the Home Clanner made clear that they would follow their own future path without bloodfoul Inner Sühere contacts and if the Inner Sphere does not let them alone they will get the apocalypse. So a deal was made and a line was drawn.

No contact has been made since this ... till the Inner Sphere (ilClan) decides they will attack them.  }:)

[Maelwys]

Does anyone think the timing of thigns is a little odd? I mean, sure we know ilClan has been pushed back quite a bit (and continues to be), but if, like the various 3250 passages have suggested, we're getting some new technology, why release the BattleMech Manual now, rather than waiting for the new tech, so everything is in one place?

[Empyrus]

Well, Total Warfare is not in print at the moment, right? Between MWO, BattleTech video game, new intro boxes coming within a year or so, this is as good place as any to release a compilation rulebook. Even so, BMM, is not a complete collection. It includes all major 'Mech weapons but not everything, so waiting till 3250-era wouldn't still make it "everything in one place" book.

Also, though IlClan is coming, the next era is likely still way off.

The latest info was "2017 release for IlClan unlikely". Let's say first quarter next year, optimistically. Then new box sets, and maybe Combat Manual Davion. That would be three major products for the next year. I would bet any 3250-era stuff is 2019, earliest.

Second, we don't actually know if there is any new tech in IlClan-era. For all we know, tech could be "redistributed" or something (Clan tech restored to top dog place, with no common mixed tech), with some items made extinct. For all we know, IlClan/3250-era might introduce new rulebooks, new ruleset. For all we know, it will be just the usual tech addition.

So, no, timings aren't really odd.

EDIT I have vague recollection of someone saying IlClan (the book) won't include new tech, all Dark Age tech exists right now. But don't quote me on this, and anyway even if i was right, plans could've changed. If it does include new tech, it is likely experimental stuff, not BMM stuff.

[Kit deSummersville]

Well, Total Warfare is not in print at the moment, right?

Game books are rarely, if ever, 'in print' like the Harry Potter novels. Almost everything is a limited run and then warehoused.

[Empyrus]

Game books are rarely, if ever, 'in print' like the Harry Potter novels. Almost everything is a limited run and then warehoused.

Yes, well, take my meaning as "There ain't no physical books really available at the moment".
Core rulebooks and TROs are some of the few BT books that do get reprints occasionally, though, are they not? Unlike most other books.

[Sartris]

My impression is that BMM is a fresh rules pivot... not a revised rule set, but a fresh coat of paint that represents the new standard for format and presentation. I can see a supplement that deals with other units, a refresh of TacOps, and possibly an updated tech manual. The rest probably either sold too poorly (Atow, atow companion , stratops) or are new enough (intops, campops) to need a reprint.

Edit : sorry, thread drift

Whatever the case is with the climax of ilclan, I expect a satisfying level of violence with almost everyone's favorite faction getting in on it.

[Diamondshark]

Or something that comes REALLY far off the Left Field. The Fedelis show up in large numbers and go "Hi we're Clan." and grab Terra or are given it by Stone or something.

I don't think this will happen; that being said, I really, REALLY want to see it--that is my favorite possible(-ish) outcome.

[Red Pins]

By this point, I can't play anymore (no opponent) - and I just want it over with so I can put an end to the Clan plotline and walk away.

[Nov. Col.]

Has it been confirmed that this will not be released this year?

[Sartris]

a 2017 release has been put in doubt, but has not been confirmed as delayed to 2018 yet (at least the last i remember seeing)

[Empyrus]

Arrastia said 2017 is very unlikely. 2018 is the most likely deal.

[acemarke]

I played Randall Bills and Brent Evans at the Masters and Minions event last night, and had a chance to ask Brent about the status of the IlClan book.  Paraphrasing his answer:

The original version of IlClan was going to wrap up a lot of stuff and prep for a time jump.  However, the current dev team, having inherited that version of IlClan, doesn't want to go that direction.  Instead, while it will be a big deal story-wise, it will _not_ wrap up everything.  Instead, it will push the timeline forward itself, and lead into the next big round of warfare in the BT universe.  As a result, they are reworking/restructuring the book, and don't really plan on it being out this year.

Brent was also very emphatic that they want it to be the best possible book in terms of things that happen to factions and characters, and reasons for those things to happen.  He made a specific comparison to something non-BT that I unfortunately don't remember, but the gist of it was that they weren't going to rush something out just to get it done, or that would give the fanbase a reason to complain because it didn't make sense.

Don't hold Brent to those specific words, because this was around midnight Saturday night and I was pretty loopy at that point, but that's my best memory of the discussion.

[Sartris]

Good info

The new version seems more in line with what i was hoping for in the first place. It will be nice to settle into a timeline rather than use it as a stopover to the next island

[Empyrus]

Interesting.

I'm guessing "IlClan Prime"* was mostly about the final years of the Dark Age and ascendancy of the IlClan. Further, i'm guessing the current version finishes the Dark Age, and then details some of the years between 3150 and 3250. I am assuming the next round of warfare is on-going at that point or starting soon after, thanks to teasers from Second Succession War and TRO SW. Otherwise the teasers would be kinda weird as their dating goes.
If my speculation is correct, there is no time jump per se, but kind of "fast-forward" in one book. Which would make sense, as a time jump that leaves timeline "empty" (for players anyway, even if internally there is a timeline and data) can cause issues. Indeed, we've seen that already with the Dark Age, the jump from 3067 to 3132 required quite a bit of filling afterwards, and some tone adjustments and maybe-retcons. Besides, people will inevitably ask for details anyway.


*I've seen "prime" used to denote an early version of a work in some cases, so it seems apt here

[Sartris]

I dunno, the next round of warfare doesn't seem to need to be that far off. It's not like everyone is going to be like "Oh shit! The Wolves / Falcons / Bears / Horses / Spaniels captured Terra. Game's over, let's go home!"

Just because we've heard from 3250 doesn't mean we have to go there yet (or ever). 3150 is still a target-rich environment with a lot of war left to give - nothing like the post-Jihad 3080s and 90s where not much was happening. I'd like to see the current TRO's mini's filled out before we run off and publish another 100+ units that will take until 2025 to catch up to. In short, the only jump / fast-forward, etc I want to see is to Jan 1, 3151.

[JadedFalcon]

It is somewhat reassuring that there is an interest in doing something more than a tv newscaster report of the events. But the lack of a time jump does indicate that the introductory rules will still be stuck in 3025.

So how do you sell new releases that use advanced rules to new players who just started playing a few weeks ago?

[Sartris]

I dunno, new players i've taught aren't the ones that are gear-phobic.

[JadedFalcon]

I dunno, new players i've taught aren't the ones that are gear-phobic.

It's good then that the new players in your particular area don't have time constraints, or haven't abandoned the game for something with less cluttered rules and more satisfying gameplay.

[Sartris]

 ::) we play three hour games. the other problems, i'm not a magician.

[Red Pins]

2018?

Meh.  Its not like I'm still buying new products and I don't have a group to play with, so I guess I wait and indulge my new hobby of house repair.  Shingles, soffets (sp), and gutters next.

[ChrystalNiNja88]

The original version of IlClan was going to wrap up a lot of stuff and prep for a time jump.  However, the current dev team, having inherited that version of IlClan, doesn't want to go that direction.  Instead, while it will be a big deal story-wise, it will _not_ wrap up everything.  Instead, it will push the timeline forward itself, and lead into the next big round of warfare in the BT universe.  As a result, they are reworking/restructuring the book, and don't really plan on it being out this year.

 :-\ Ah. I was looking forward to a big Terra showdown, then time-jump for a fresh start to be honest.

[Red Pins]

There has to be one, or so I figure.  Characters, tech, whatever - they've published enough that the sheer amount of information has to be choking the creativity.  Better to start new.

I'll be watching from the sidelines, after IlClan, though.  Thank goodness for Sarna.

[Talen5000]

There has to be one, or so I figure.  Characters, tech, whatever - they've published enough that the sheer amount of information has to be choking the creativity.  Better to start new.

I'll be watching from the sidelines, after IlClan, though.  Thank goodness for Sarna.

One reason why I think a 100 year time jump isn't enough.

500 years - or 1000 - might be better. Let the ilClan rule for a thousand years and start to break up again in 4250..

New tech. New characters. New/old factions. A new start.

[Wrangler]

With the new arrangement that Brent's redoing the IlClan book.  I'd imagine were going see more books but much later on in the year and next year. I think next year if it's serious revamp of the format, not the story.

[Red Pins]

One reason why I think a 100 year time jump isn't enough.

500 years - or 1000 - might be better. Let the ilClan rule for a thousand years and start to break up again in 4250..

New tech. New characters. New/old factions. A new start.

Hmm - I think a thousand years might be a bit much.  100-200 years, maybe.

What I'd like to see is the Periphery starting to more firmly establish itself and becoming more like the IS of the 3020's, while the IS Houses merge through marriage.  Instant Reunification War.

[Talen5000]

Hmm - I think a thousand years might be a bit much.  100-200 years, maybe.

What I'd like to see is the Periphery starting to more firmly establish itself and becoming more like the IS of the 3020's, while the IS Houses merge through marriage.  Instant Reunification War.

They did about 100 for the Dark Age.

I don't think it was long enough for a reset. 5 generations of people able to live to 150 years old? 750 years.

[Empyrus]

There's not gonna be a long time jump, so, please, take it elsewhere. It may or may not be an interesting discussion but it is separate from IlClan given what we now know.

(Besides, if you do a long time time jump with all new tech and factions, you might as well make a new IP while at it. Personally not interested.)

With the new arrangement that Brent's redoing the IlClan book.  I'd imagine were going see more books but much later on in the year and next year. I think next year if it's serious revamp of the format, not the story.

I assume this relates to sadlerbw's summary of stuff from GenCon here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58343.msg1345368#msg1345368
This is the big bit for IlClan:

- Brent felt that the current state of ilClan was too dry, too much like an reading after-action report. He wants it to be more of an event, and to have it be a bit more exciting. Sort of like reading a novel rather than the wikipedia synopsis of the novel. When asked if it would be out next Gencon, he said we would definitely be "in the middle of it" by then. He wouldn't be drawn out on how one could be in the middle of a single book. I got the impression he felt the current plan was lacking in drama and excitement, and wants to make ilClan feel like a big, important thing, and not just a book that happens to tie up some plot threads. He was pretty passionate about this.

[Wrangler]

My comment on the other thread was reference that it would take time i would imagine to write something up to make old IlClan materials more exciting. Thus why i said it be awhile until something comes out for IlClan source book.  if there is one not many spread out.

[Empyrus]

Eh, somehow missed your comment. I was just thinking about the summary in general.

[ANS Kamas P81]

They did about 100 for the Dark Age.

I don't think it was long enough for a reset. 5 generations of people able to live to 150 years old? 750 years.

More like 50 years to the Dark Age, end of the Jihad in early 3080s to the 3132(?) blackout.

Also, generations is 'from when you were born till you have kids' and not entire lifespans.  Five generations is a lot less than that, even at ages of 150.

[Scotty]

The Dark Age started when the timeline was stuck hovering in late 3067, so saying it was only 50 years is a bit off the mark.  Similarly, saying it was 100 is just as far in the other direction.

[Empyrus]

The difference was 65 years.

Now, please, can someone make a time jump talk thread? I am kinda interested in the talk but i think it would be better off in its own thread.

[YingJanshi]

The difference was 65 years.

Now, please, can someone make a time jump talk thread? I am kinda interested in the talk but i think it would be better off in its own thread.

"Let's do the Time..."

Sorry. I'll see myself out... :D

[Empyrus]

I don't get the reference/pun/whatever.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I don't get the reference/pun/whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkplPbd2f60
Oh and that link is probably NSFW so be advised.  The song itself is quite fine, just...everything else...

Anyway, so to summarize, ilClan is going to be a summary of everything up to 3150, and instead of initiating a 'freeze' in the setting or a timeskip, things will pick up chronologically shortly after as the Inner Sphere falls into a new round of warfare and fun soon after the ilClan is declared.

Will the intro bit for the new TRO, implying that warfare has stopped and how the peace of the masses is kept with replicas of those old classic designs and old technology, be changing at all?  Perhaps relegating to 'yeah that's how it is in THEIR little territory, not the whole inner sphere' because we all know that there's 'everything that is Jade Falcon' and there's 'all those other suratbags that don't matter.'  A grandiose claim of WE CONTROL ALL could easily be in-character propaganda; it sure feels tha tway. 

[sadlerbw]

From everything in the after-what's-up q&a, I got the impression that Brent and Ray are ok with the plot for ilClan. The events, factions, characters, dates...all that stuff is Ok. It was the tone in which the story was told that they wanted to alter. That, and it seemed like Brent wanted this to be more than just a book release. This is me speculating, but I think he wants to add stuff outside of just the book to go along with it. My speculation is some short-form fiction, and demo team driven game events. Maybe a special mini or two from IWM? I don't really know what will be possible and what won't, but I think ilClan is going to be more than just a simple sourcebook release if Brent and Ray get their way.