Gen Con 2017 New Releases

[sadlerbw]

Sorry this is all broken up, but I keep remembering little bits and pieces:

Brent mentioned that he wanted to get mercenaries back into the setting in a bigger way. He was lamenting how the jihad killed off so many and moved more towards a house-army sort of setting. He thinks the company sized Mercs unit is a great thing for telling a story for players, and we should probably expect small merc groups to be much more common again in some form or another.

I also asked him if there was one thing that he would de-invent in the setting; something you wish you could make disappear. Basically something that is in the game that just didn't turn out to be a great idea. I remembered Randall being asked that in some interview or other, and saying the clan ER PPC or maybe double heat sinks. I made sure to say this wasn't something I expected him to pursue changing. Just a question about what he thinks just didn't work out well. Brent said probably LAM's, or more specifically airmech mode.

Also, the ICE engined mech thing: Brent was pretty clear he was just asking to satisfy his curiosity. It didn't necessarily have anything to do with any plans he has. Don't read too much into that question in terms of the future of the game.

[Empyrus]

Sorry this is all broken up, but I keep remembering little bits and pieces:

Brent mentioned that he wanted to get mercenaries back into the setting in a bigger way. He was lamenting how the jihad killed off so many and moved more towards a house-army sort of setting. He thinks the company sized Mercs unit is a great thing for telling a story for players, and we should probably expect small merc groups to be much more common again in some form or another.

Interesting. Personally i'm not a big merc fan as i don't care for creating my own, and i don't care for extant units, especially since most with interesting stories or logos/tactics/colors tend to be bigger ones. (And the most storied ones slipping into mary-sueish territory doesn't really help at all.) But smaller scale, more options... that might work.


Scale is one issue i see with BattleTech. I realized that as i read Succession Wars sourcebooks. I couldn't quite follow what was happening. Massive armies at massive scale... it is just difficult to comprehend and follow, and in the end it becomes just numbers. There is no personal touch, it is not character-driven.
I mention on the previous page how i see dryness small an issue, and mention sourcebooks needing a voice, and this ties to the "personal touch" and character-drivenness. One reason Operation KLONDIKE works well is that the Clan armies are small and their leaders and other characters have their own quirks even though the book is otherwise a historical treatise really; it tells a story of many small things.
Smaller units, mercenary or otherwise, are more conductive for that, perhaps.

(Note, i don't mean to imply scale is an issue for devs, just that i see it an issue. Not that i have any idea how it can be helped without blowing up 90% of the Inner Sphere.)

[GRUD]

But the reboot thing was done before. Look at Wizkids and ClickyTech. Sure, it brought in a lot of new people, but it also made a lot of people walk away from the franchise.

Saying reboot around here makes people skittish.

I was thinking Brent had said "There will be no reboot." ?  Do you remember hearing that sadlerbw?  What about you, Adrian?

[Adrian Gideon]

The problem is reboot can be taken to mean a lot of different things.

[mbear]

But the reboot thing was done before. Look at Wizkids and ClickyTech. Sure, it brought in a lot of new people, but it also made a lot of people walk away from the franchise.

I think that had more to do with how WizKids announced the "reboot". They didn't. There was no indication that the BattleTech universe as we knew it was going to keep going. They just sent out a bunch of units for factions nobody had ever heard of before. Did that mean all the existing stuff was now irrelevant? No answer. Did that mean that there was no more product for existing factions? No answer.

If they had made it clear that the "reboot" was focusing on the Republic first and then expanding into the other factions grognards knew and loved, I think they would've been much better off.

Just my $0.02.

[wantec]

The problem is reboot can be taken to mean a lot of different things.

To some a reboot would mean skipping forward a number of years and without a bunch of new tech, changing things up in the setting (MWDA). For others its jumping forward and introducing new factions and new tech that's better than existing (jump to the Clan invasion). And for another fraction a reboot is jumping back to a point in the timeline and wiping out everything that happened after that date and starting over with a different vision (new Star Trek movies).

[sadlerbw]

I was thinking Brent had said "There will be no reboot." ?  Do you remember hearing that sadlerbw?  What about you, Adrian?

What I remember is that he said there would not be a re-write of the existing rule books. Basically, that they didn't want to go make a Total War 2, and a Tac Ops 2, etc. They weren't going to throw away or largely invalidate all the work that went into the existing core books. At least not as part of the ilClan plans and the current planning for beyond. As for a reboot afterward, I'm not really sure. Like Ray mentioned, it depends on what each person considered a reboot. the Jihad and 3085 made some pretty big changes to the game world. If someone considered that a reboot, then I'm guessing they might feel the same way about what things look like in 3250. If they don't think the end of the jihad was a reboot, I doubt the time jump will be much more drastic. Again, just my sense, not anything they said directly.

Also, I didn't want to put words into anyone's mouth more than I already have, but my personal impression was that ilClan isn't just going to be a sourcebook now. It is going to have other things that tie in as well. I didn't get the impression that there will not be a book called ilClan, but it sounded like Brent/Ray were trying to get other things in the pipe to go along with it. Maybe demo team events. Maybe some short-form fiction. Not sure and they didn't say. Just my impression.

[Hammer]

Part of the reboot conversation came from a comment I made.

The basics of my comment was - "I'd have no issue with a reboot of the mechanics of the game, but anything that touches the history or timeline would lose me as a player"

[Frabby]

Also, I didn't want to put words into anyone's mouth more than I already have, but my personal impression was that ilClan isn't just going to be a sourcebook now. It is going to have other things that tie in as well. I didn't get the impression that there will not be a book called ilClan, but it sounded like Brent/Ray were trying to get other things in the pipe to go along with it. Maybe demo team events. Maybe some short-form fiction. Not sure and they didn't say. Just my impression.

I have been under the impression that "IlClan" is the upcoming next era of BattleTech after the Dark Age, and I pretty much expect as much as hope it gets a treatment similar to how most earlier eras played out: An ongoing timeline that is slowly advanced by novels, scenarios and sourcebooks. The vibe I got about the "Touchpoints" products as mentioned above is that in the IlClan Era they'll be the equivalent to the "Jihad Hot Spots" series - and I for one would love that. But I also loved how the Jihad was presented and played out, apparently unlike many others.

[ColBosch]

I have been under the impression that "IlClan" is the upcoming next era of BattleTech after the Dark Age, and I pretty much expect as much as hope it gets a treatment similar to how most earlier eras played out: An ongoing timeline that is slowly advanced by novels, scenarios and sourcebooks. The vibe I got about the "Touchpoints" products as mentioned above is that in the IlClan Era they'll be the equivalent to the "Jihad Hot Spots" series - and I for one would love that. But I also loved how the Jihad was presented and played out, apparently unlike many others.

Originally, IlClan was to be the wrap-up before a time jump. The Touchpoints were to be lead-ins to it. Now it sounds like Brent wants to spend at least some more time in the late 3100s before moving to 3250, and I can dig that.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah . . . I would like to know about the League-Regulan war.  Julian's campaign to save the Suns.  If Malvina is going to go back after the Horses . . . and what are the Bears doing?

[Empyrus]

Originally, IlClan was to be the wrap-up before a time jump. The Touchpoints were to be lead-ins to it. Now it sounds like Brent wants to spend at least some more time in the late 3100s before moving to 3250, and I can dig that.

I don't mind late 32st century stuff, as long as the current conflict gets brought to closure. It has been 15 years now, or close enough...  #P

[Colt Ward]

You talking 3132-3150 or MWDA to present day?

[Empyrus]

Is there a difference?

Real time was what i meant though. MWDA was released in... 2002, i think?

[Colt Ward]

Something like that . . . but BT was doing nothing at that time in the Dark Ages.  I would even go to say that the last few years we had dropped backwards in time by doing the 1SW & 2SW rather than staying in the 'current' timeline.

[Pat Payne]

i really don't care for the concept of RetroTech, doesn't really make sense to me (i see it as making T-34s in modern day to fight against modern tanks or a generation old tanks like T-72).

I get where they're going in theory -- it's more like a nation so beaten that it can't produce modern tech to match a M1A2 or a T-72 (such as reactive armor and gun gyros), but any sufficiently advanced nation would still have the metallurgical skill to produce armor-grade steel, the engineering know-how to build sloped glacis plates and diesel engines, and the production skill to produce cannons and HEAP ammo.

I assume the MechWarrior stuff relates to an idea voiced last year at some place that 'Mechs would gain special ability cards or something like that? Interesting concept, i'm not opposed to limited amount of "roleplaying stuff" given that the game already has skill ratings.

I was wondering if it might be a more direct integration of the Special Pilot Ability optional rules introduced first in Alpha Strike and then into Battletech through Campaign Ops.

[Sartris]

I could see doing something like Pathfinder Cards that have various pilots and PSAs on them. You could also have a deck of quirks or mission options out of CampOps. Sell em for something like $6.99 a deck

[Sentinel373]

My printer was pretty freaking tired by that point, so the prints could have been better, but she looks good.

Well the model i handed in wasn't 100% cleared yet either. it had some issues which didnt become apparant untill i saw the print but most of those are fixed now. So when she rolls in for production it will be much better :) Still nice job getting the shad and catapult to the show :)

[Charlie Tango]

They had new AS maps for the Demo Teams made, all with the same features, just different "ground".  One is grassland, 1 is snow, 1 is sand, and 1 looks like the moon. They're all printed on rubber mats, but will NOT be available for sale.  I asked Brent about them after seeing them, and he said they ARE looking in to making new maps, but I didn't think until Sunday evening to ask if they'll be on paper or cardboard.   :-[

Those neoprene mats were one-off prints for the Demo Team to use in the Alpha Strike Academy for teaching players how to play AS.

[Dragon41673]

From an old non-grognard fan,  on touching a comment from earlier, I think Brent has a great idea with the smaller merc story telling...AS LONG AS IT'S DONE RIGHT.

While I'm pretty nostalgic at times, I do want the game to move forward (and good lord please MORE INFO on what's going on with the Homeworld Clans for gods sake!)...but I miss those older Scenario books that not only gave you fights to re-create/relive/play over & over...whatever you want to call it...those books also has great info on mercs as well as sometimes a special mech WITH STATS!!!

Thos kinds of books were really cool, and helped pull me in to the game as it gave me just info info not to bore me, but just enough to make me want more too.

[YingJanshi]

From an old non-grognard fan,  on touching a comment from earlier, I think Brent has a great idea with the smaller merc story telling...AS LONG AS IT'S DONE RIGHT.

While I'm pretty nostalgic at times, I do want the game to move forward (and good lord please MORE INFO on what's going on with the Homeworld Clans for gods sake!)...but I miss those older Scenario books that not only gave you fights to re-create/relive/play over & over...whatever you want to call it...those books also has great info on mercs as well as sometimes a special mech WITH STATS!!!

Thos kinds of books were really cool, and helped pull me in to the game as it gave me just info info not to bore me, but just enough to make me want more too.

I hear you. Those scenario books were really good about giving you a feel for the universe. But I'd say we're in the minority about that. (Most everything I've heard is that scenario books were always the worst sellers.)

[Frabby]

I think the difference boils down to William H. Keith-style "from the bottom up" universe building vs. the Michael Stackpole-style "from the top down":
While Stackpole prefers to go with the top dogs, the makers and shakers of the universe, Keith showed us the little men down in the mud, the nuts and bolts and grime of the universe.
These narrative approaches naturally complemented each other well, with one showing the big picture and the other adding the texture. I've come to appreciate Stackpole upon re-reading the early novels, but still slightly prefer the small-scale narratives. In this sense, Brush Wars feels a bit more BattleTech to me than the FCCW.

Blaine Pardoe posted pictures of this years BT writers' summit. I for one was happy to spot Phil Lee there, whose BattleCorps stories also tended to focus on the individual warriors over throne room politics. Me, I'm super excited about the apparent increased importance that CGL puts on storytelling and novels. They seem to be moving in exactly the right direction here.

[ColBosch]

Phil Lee has also been doing a ton of editing for BattleTech, stepping into the role I had once hoped for. He's much better at it than I am, anyway. O0

[mbear]

I hear you. Those scenario books were really good about giving you a feel for the universe. But I'd say we're in the minority about that. (Most everything I've heard is that scenario books were always the worst sellers.)

Maybe that's the niche the Spotlight on series is supposed to fill.

[Adrian Gideon]

Maybe that's the niche the Spotlight on series is supposed to fill.

Yup.

[Dulahan]

I don't think there's a single other point of argument on this forum that makes me more irritated than the idea that simplifying Total Warfare at all in any way equals Alpha Strike.  I could take an hour and write my own simplified BattleTech ruleset that was still more complicated than Alpha Strike.  And I say that as someone who loves Alpha Strike to a frankly unreasonable extent.

There's a huge gulf between TW and AS.

True story.

And for what it's worth. I'd be all for a rebooted 'system' for the main game.  Keep the feel, like the core mechanics.  Make it smoother.  Maybe rebalance the tech a bit but in a way that all the canon builds are still there.  We'll always have the old way to play if we want.  But just redo it entirely.  They want to get rid of DHS?  Find a way to do it!  Or maybe only have it DHS if it's outside the Engine so it remains a real choice that takes slots to get the benefit.  As long as this is coupled with -other- rebalancing to make builds work, and remain similar, that's cool! (And please don't focus on the DHS suggestions, they're probably terrible, I'm just using it as a quick and easy example, not the gospel thing I think needs doing)

[Sartris]

I doubt there will be any rebuild of the rules that calls for invalidating the current record sheets. Whatever the pros and cons, I just don't see TPTB doing it.

[sadlerbw]

I doubt there will be any rebuild of the rules that calls for invalidating the current record sheets. Whatever the pros and cons, I just don't see TPTB doing it.

I could see them doing it for Warships because some of them are just plain goofy thanks to being created under significantly different rulesets. MAYBE other Aero units as well, because it isn't such a huge set of units to mess with. Mechs and Vehicles? Can't see it happening. Not sure about any other units like Infantry, BA, Naval Vessels, etc.

[Konrath]

I think CGL is kind of all of the place with recent releases. Are they still supporting AS? The new boxsets are pure CBT, while lance packs are AS. All the mechs in the lance packs and boxsets minus the premium ones are IS. Are they not supporting Clan? The combat manuals are more AS then CBT. The Combat manuals, are only focused on certain early time periods and dont mention a lot past clan invasion?

Then they plan to extend the timeline past Dark Age, which I think some of those mechs arent even fully supported. Its kind of a mess, especially for new players. I would love a reboot starting from 3025. Make it Gundam style where its a different timeline. You dont kill what you've created over the last 30+ years but make a fresh new start. Just think of a new player picks up a new boxset thats pretty much 3025, then IlClan comes out and how do they get to their?  Thats a huge gap in between.

[pheonixstorm]

Well you can't put too many designs in plastic or it affects IWM. As it is all of the plastics are 3025. Adding an AS box would add additional units from 3050 which also means more lost revenue for IWM. It would be nice to have an Alpha Strike boxet with 12 v 10.