Author Topic: Word of Blake Level IIs...  (Read 11438 times)

Armond

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Word of Blake Level IIs...
« on: 28 October 2017, 19:53:23 »
Hello, need some assistance in the composition of WoB Lvl IIs.  Do their formations tend to have a uniform composition, like having 6 of the same mech/vehicle in the same Lvl II or are they more of a one of each, maybe some duplicates type of composition?

I am trying to make a WoB Militia Lvl III eventually, but of course starting with IIs.  I picked up some key mechs that I felt were in their forces, but am not sure how to compose the force.  For instance, I have this as a potential Level II:  3x Nexus, 2x Raijin, 1x Grim Reaper.

I have other mechs for use by them, such as: Champion, Sentinel, Wraith, Exterminator, Emperor, Falcon Hawk, and a few others. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Deadborder

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #1 on: 28 October 2017, 21:06:39 »
Like most Inner Sphere Lances (or Clan Stars) a Word of Blake Level II will be made up of different designs. It will vary depending on the unit, situation and whatever else, but having several different 'Mechs would be perfectly normal.

So your sample II (3 Nexus, 2 Raijin, 1 Grim Reaper) is perfectly normal and in fitting with typical Word-style formations.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #2 on: 28 October 2017, 21:58:46 »
Also many Lv.II's were a mix of mechs, Vee's, and BA/infantry. if you want to explore some combined arms.

pensiveswetness

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #3 on: 28 October 2017, 23:06:55 »
Each of the larger formations always had a Letter at the end (like 6th Division IV-Theta, for example) and the Letter (I think) represents the composition of the unit in question, yes?

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #4 on: 28 October 2017, 23:46:22 »
Also many Lv.II's were a mix of mechs, Vee's, and BA/infantry. if you want to explore some combined arms.

I don't know about "Many",  IIRC the CSFM says "Most" L-II's are pure, but "All" L-III's are Mixed.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #5 on: 28 October 2017, 23:47:16 »
Ya, I just read about the various types of Levels.

I was definitely considering that as well. 

Nexus x2
Raijin x2
Grim Reaper
Huron Warrior

I have a decent amount of mechs available too (sorry for AS format):

Word of Blake

Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker
Stinger-3Gb @16pts Striker
3x Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker
Cicada-3F @25pts Striker
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher
Sentinel-3L @21pts Striker
Wolf Trap-B @25pts Striker
Cerberus-6B @52pts Brawler
Zeus-10WB @44pts Sniper
Thorn-N1 @13pts Sniper
Mongoose-66 @22pts Scout
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher
Ostscout-10CS @20pts Scout
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper
Kintaro-20 @36pts Skirmisher
Shadowhawk-2H @20pts Skirmisher
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher
Bombardier-12D @36pts MBoat
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut
HuronWarrior-R4L@33pts Skirmisher
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut

« Last Edit: 28 October 2017, 23:52:43 by Armond »

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #6 on: 28 October 2017, 23:49:01 »
Hello, need some assistance in the composition of WoB Lvl IIs.  Do their formations tend to have a uniform composition, like having 6 of the same mech/vehicle in the same Lvl II or are they more of a one of each, maybe some duplicates type of composition?

I am trying to make a WoB Militia Lvl III eventually, but of course starting with IIs.  I picked up some key mechs that I felt were in their forces, but am not sure how to compose the force.  For instance, I have this as a potential Level II:  3x Nexus, 2x Raijin, 1x Grim Reaper.

I have other mechs for use by them, such as: Champion, Sentinel, Wraith, Exterminator, Emperor, Falcon Hawk, and a few others. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your formation seems completely fine as an example of an medium Mech Level-II.
They are not like the SLDF with identical lances, though there is also nothing wrong with some duplicates/triplicates like you have since that keeps the unit focused on a specific roll/specialty.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #7 on: 28 October 2017, 23:53:27 »
I see mixed Level-IIs being uncommon, maybe 1-2 per Level-III formation, and usually in one of 3 key types/styles.


1.  Command/HQ
2.  Specialty  (Spec Ops, Artillery/Spotters, Deep Recon, etc etc etc.)
3.  Infantry + APC/IFVs

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #8 on: 28 October 2017, 23:56:48 »
Helpful for working out the naming conventions, etc:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Com_Guards


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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #9 on: 29 October 2017, 00:08:53 »
I figured that after some more reading and edited my mixed idea.

If I do a Command Lvl II:
Mobile HQ
Achiles BA x6
Exterminator-4D
Cyclops-10-HQ
Emperor-6A
Zeus-6S

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #10 on: 29 October 2017, 00:09:21 »
Level III Composition

Command Level II:
Cyclops-11-A @38pts Sniper Size 4
Grim Reaper-PR29 @34pts Skirmisher Size 2
Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher Size 3
Phoenix Hawk-3M @26pts Striker Size 2
Longbow-7Q @45pts Missile Boat Size 4
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler Size 1

Light Battle Level II:
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher Size 2
2x Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker Size 1
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker Size 1
Wasp-3M @11pts Scout Size 1
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker Size 1

Heavy Battle Level II:
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler Size 3
Thunderbolt-7M @39pts Brawler Size 3
Crusader-5M @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper Size 2
HuronWarrior-R4L @33pts Skirmisher Size 2

Assault Level II:
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler Size 4
Warhammer-7M @35pts Brawler Size 3
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher Size 3
Zeus-6S @35pts Sniper Size 4

The last two will be a Level II of vehicles and a Level II of Infantry.  Or I was considering dropping one of the Lances and making it a bit less Mech dependent and maybe having a Level II of Armor Vehicles, Transport/Infantry Support Vehicles, and a Level II of Infantry(including BA).


Edited List of Available Mechs

Wasp-3M @11pts Scout Size 1
Mongoose-66 @22pts Scout Size 1
Ostscout-10CS @20pts Scout Size 1
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker Size 1
Stinger-3Gb @16pts Striker Size 1
Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker Size 1
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker Size 1
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler Size 1
Thorn-N1 @13pts Sniper Size 1

Vulcan-5T @24pts Striker Size 2
Phoenix Hawk-3M @26pts Striker Size 2
Cicada-3F @25pts Striker Size 2
Sentinel-3L @21pts Striker Size 2
Wolf Trap-B @25pts Striker Size 2
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher Size 2
Kintaro-20 @36pts Skirmisher Size 2
Shadowhawk-2H @20pts Skirmisher Size 2
Wolverine-7M @32pts Skirmisher Size 2
Grim Reaper-PR29 @34pts Skirmisher Size 2
HuronWarrior-R4L @33pts Skirmisher Size 2
Hunchback-4G @28pts Juggernaut Size 2
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper Size 2

Warhammer-7M @35pts Brawler Size 3
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler Size 3
Thunderbolt-7M @39pts Brawler Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher Size 3
Crusader-5M @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher Size 3
Bombardier-12D @36pts Missile Boat Size 3
Catapult-C1 @33pts Missile Boat Size 3
Archer-4M @45pts Missile Boat Size 3

Cerberus-6B @52pts Brawler Size 4
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler Size 4
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Highlander-732 @50pts Sniper Size 4
Crockett-5003-1 @48pts Sniper Size 4
Zeus-6S @35pts Sniper Size 4
Cyclops-11-A @38pts Sniper Size 4
Longbow-7Q @45pts Missile Boat Size 4

Will try and get vehicles worked out later.

Galleon-102 Light Tank @23pts Striker Size 1
Hetzer @15pts Ambusher Size 2
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 03:19:02 by Armond »

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #11 on: 29 October 2017, 12:56:42 »
Your missing fighters.
All Level-3 formations have a bare minimum of 1 flight of 2 fighters.
The "Average" Level-3 has 6.5 Fighters, just over 1 squadron.

Your also very mech heavy.  Which is fine if your shooting for an Alpha-Zeta style formation.

When I design a "generic" Level 3, say something more in the Lambda area, I usually start with the following. 

4 Pure Level-IIs totaling 12 Mechs, 6 Fighters, 6 platoons of Infantry (36 men each = 12 x 18 man "unit counters".

This leaves me with 2 more Level-IIs that are some mix of BA, IFV/APCs, & Combat Vehicles.

I don't think of a Level-III as a "Battalion" strong fighting unit, its more of a Mech Company with a larger than normal combat support force.

It also conveniently fits in a single Overlord with plenty of Cargo Space left over.  ;)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #12 on: 29 October 2017, 13:29:12 »
Page 9 of BATTLETECH FIELD MANUAL: COMSTAR has the break down of division level assets. And Word of Blake uses the same breakdown.

Regardless of whether it is an ALPHA division or a ZETA Division, or an OMEGA it will have 39 Aerospace units.

And at the Division Level (or a LEVEL IV) a COMSTAR/Word of Blake has 216 units.

So, taking an ALPHA Division we have:

39 (Aero) + 164 ('Mech) + 4 (Armor) + 9 (Infantry) = 216

A ZETA Division:

39 (Aero) + 132 ('Mech) + 15 (Armor) + 30 (Infantry) = 216

and OMEGA

39 (Aero) + 15 ('mech) + 54 (Armor) + 108 (Infantry) = 216

Also, Word of Blake/Comstar is always Mixing up their units, so more often than not, a Level II could Have 4 mechs, 1 vehicle (Armor) and 1 Infantry (or Battle Armor). Again, depending on what type of (see above) Division it hails from.

Example 1st Division WoD (True Believers) is a BETA division so would Have:

39 Aero
158 'Mechs
6 Armor
13 Infantry
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 14:33:29 by NeonKnight »
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #13 on: 29 October 2017, 18:21:29 »
My understanding of the list in FM: Comstar was that each level III in a division would be made of 5 level II of mixed mech/armor/infantry and the last level II be pure aerofighter for air recon/cover.

The ratio of mech/armor and infantry (BA or not) depend of the greek letter has stated. Also, I suppose that when they detail a division with the type of level IIIs, if there is 2 with the same greek letter (that would be the same as the division), the second level III would have the 3 extra aerofighter replacing some mech/armor/infantry.

Here is my vision of the TO & A for Comstar' 11th division circa 3062 (as per Sarna)

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #14 on: 29 October 2017, 19:29:27 »
My understanding of the list in FM: Comstar was that each level III in a division would be made of 5 level II of mixed mech/armor/infantry and the last level II be pure aerofighter for air recon/cover.

The ratio of mech/armor and infantry (BA or not) depend of the greek letter has stated. Also, I suppose that when they detail a division with the type of level IIIs, if there is 2 with the same greek letter (that would be the same as the division), the second level III would have the 3 extra aerofighter replacing some mech/armor/infantry.

Here is my vision of the TO & A for Comstar' 11th division circa 3062 (as per Sarna)

While I myself like the idea of a pure L2 of ASF, it doesn't have to be that way.
The ASF total is 39, and while I originally felt that had to be a typo, someone pointed out to me, that could be read as the average & that 1/2 the Divisions have 36 while the other half have 42. 
So 1 in 12 Level-3's would have 12 fighters instead of 6.  Not too outlandish if that L3 happens to cover an airbase or moon base.

What we do know is that the FMCS clearly states that fighters are always deployed in at least pairs, never singles, & that every Level-III contains aerofighters.
So it could be only 2, but I like going with the "averages" idea of 6 with an odd extra squadron for every other division.

We also know that many/most, but not all, Level-IIs are pure, so it would be unlikely to have all 5 of the ground based Level-II's be mixed.  More likely only 1-2 per Battalion/L3

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #15 on: 29 October 2017, 19:46:43 »
Well, remember also, as per FM COMSTAR page 8, the Higher the letter (A, B, D, etc) the more front line/offensive it will be versus the Sigma's and Omega's which would be more defensive/planetary garrison.
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #16 on: 29 October 2017, 20:04:50 »
Hmmmm, I may just go with 2-4 ASF for now since we dont really use them in our games.

Ok, so probably going to go with 2 Level IIs with Mechs, 2 Level II with Armor/Transport, Level II with Infantry(Conventional and BA and a MASH unit).  Finally a Command Level II w/Mobile HQ 1-2 Mechs, 2 ASF, and maybe some Anti-Air Armor/Mech.

Now, does a Command Level II count towards the 6 Level IIs to create a Level III?  If it doesn't then I have room for another Level II...

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #17 on: 30 October 2017, 02:38:53 »
Got a few more questions. 

When it comes to the Infantry, does transportation for them count as part of the Level II (it takes one of the Lvl I slots per vehicle), is it counted against a vehicle lvl II, or is it not counted and given for free as a means of transport for the Infantry/BA.

Say I have a lvl I made up of 6 Achiles BA, and want a transport, would that effectively equal two Level Is or is it just one(because the vehicle doesn't count towards the total)?

Recommendation for ASF?  I have a Samurai I want to use maybe, anything that works well to fill ~3 more Level I slots?
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 02:41:14 by Armond »

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #18 on: 30 October 2017, 03:32:59 »
My understanding is that transport is factored in - ie: a squad of BA PLUS their APC is considered a Level I.
Happy to be corrected though


"Hold your position, conserve ammo... and wait for the Dragoons to go Feral"
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Maelwys

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #19 on: 30 October 2017, 03:42:07 »
I'm of the personal opinion that the vehicle is part of the infantry. So a Level I of BA and their transport is just a level I.

Things get way too fiddly otherwise.

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #20 on: 30 October 2017, 04:13:16 »
I like it!  Yay!!!

Recommended transport for BA?  Maxims?

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #21 on: 30 October 2017, 04:52:28 »
sorry to bust your bubble, but I would say...No.

prime example is as you stated, why not take a Maxim, heck why not include a Palmoni or a Magi for each unit of BA.

A single group of 6 BA is a single Level 1 (note each individual BA is not a Level 1, but the whole 6 are)

This means 6 units of BA is a Level II (or 36 individual Suits), just like 4 dudes in BA is not an IS Lance, nor is 5 for clans a Star.

Just like 1 soldier is not a full Level I, but whatever number makes up a platoon a single unit.

So, taking further, Tau Zombie even though there are 7 of them, and Tau Wraith have 6.

Finally, from SARNA:

Quote
Structure and Command
The Word of Blake Militia maintains the same base-six military command structure as the Com Guards, with a Level I unit consisting of a single BattleMech, Combat Vehicle, Aerospace Fighter or infantry unit of four (later six) Battle Armor or 28 conventional infantry.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 05:02:18 by NeonKnight »
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #22 on: 30 October 2017, 05:33:28 »
Ok, so then three Level Is of BA and three transports is a Level II.

I have no interest in using those Manei Domini BA in this force because they are not a Shadow Division Force.  Although I may put a Level I of some BA in a Command Level II of Manei Domini led by an Archangel, two Pretas, and some others.

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #23 on: 30 October 2017, 05:43:45 »
The Maxim Heavy Transport can carry two Level Is of BA.  So I can go 2 Maxims and four BA Squads(2 in each Maxim) right?

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #24 on: 30 October 2017, 05:45:14 »
Ok, so then three Level Is of BA and three transports is a Level II.

I have no interest in using those Manei Domini BA in this force because they are not a Shadow Division Force.  Although I may put a Level I of some BA in a Command Level II of Manei Domini led by an Archangel, two Pretas, and some others.

that would make sense based on my readings and research into building up my own WoB forces (both WoB Militia and WoB Shadow Division)
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NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #25 on: 30 October 2017, 05:48:42 »
The Maxim Heavy Transport can carry two Level Is of BA.  So I can go 2 Maxims and four BA Squads(2 in each Maxim) right?

Which one? Sadly, most maxim can carry 3 tons of Infantry and a single level I of BA is 6 tons  :-\

So you would need 4 maxims and 2 BA for a Level II

Unless you go with Maxim Hvy Transport BA Upgrade, but that only gets you up to 4 tons of transport capacity.


OK, Found one, the MAXIM Clan Upgrade, has enough space for a single Level I of WoB BA.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 05:52:06 by NeonKnight »
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #26 on: 30 October 2017, 06:06:24 »
Maybe this one?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2115/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport-standard

From Sarna:
Infantry Variant
Sacrificing firepower for carrying capacity, this Maxim can transport up to 12 tons of infantry. In exchange, its weapons are limited to a Streak SRM-6, 2 ER Medium Lasers, and a TAG, all mounted in its turret. BV (2.0) = 770[5]

Isn't the BA one ton apiece in terms of transport requirements, so like you said, 6 tons for a Level I of then?.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 06:17:10 by Armond »

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #27 on: 30 October 2017, 06:29:46 »
Maybe this one?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2115/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport-standard

From Sarna:
Infantry Variant
Sacrificing firepower for carrying capacity, this Maxim can transport up to 12 tons of infantry. In exchange, its weapons are limited to a Streak SRM-6, 2 ER Medium Lasers, and a TAG, all mounted in its turret. BV (2.0) = 770[5]

Isn't the BA one ton apiece in terms of transport requirements, so like you said, 6 tons for a Level I of then?.

Yeah that would work.

However, as per page 214 of TOTAL WARFARE, it is 1 ton per BA 'trooper'

So, most standard Maxim's have 3-4 tons of Infantry transport, but Clan version has 6 tons, making it usable for WoB forces.

But taking 2 Maxim I's and 4 BA would indeed be 'best-bang fer yer C-Bills!
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #28 on: 30 October 2017, 06:31:59 »
Right, but using the MUL, if you look at the Alpha Strike card it shows IT12.  So 12 tons of transport space. Is that wrong? 

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #29 on: 30 October 2017, 07:06:18 »
Eh, while technically correct in that a Level I of infantry and its transport would be 2 Level Is, I've never seen it be ground breaking by combining them both into a single Level I.

I'd point out that if you didn't, and you were making a force based on the Division numbers from the ComStar Sourcebook and other sources, then if you did want to give your infantry transports, you'd wind up wasting pretty much your entire armor selections on transports. The Infantry to Vehicle ratio in Divisions is pretty much 2:1 so even if your transports are carrying two Infantry units each, that's your entire complement of Conventional Vehicles. If you want to actually have regular, non-transport Conventional Vehicles, you have to carry more than 2 units per transport, and that gets tough.

Giving them a bit of flexibility is hardly going to destroy things.