What If Hanse wasn't such a playboy?

[Hellraiser]

I think binge watching Game of Thrones has got the idea of Marriage making Alliances in my head.

So in my mental musings I got to thinking about how unlikely it should have been that the First Prince had no heir for the first 17 years of his reign....
 yeah,  17  YEARS,  that seems rather unlikely right?

IIRC, he did loose his fiance in 3013 just as he took power, but he had 7 years to find a new GF & secure the future of the family line.

I'm thinking within 5 years of being 1st Prince someone should have pointed out that the realm needs a legacy & he should have been married with children by the time Katrina give her Peace Proposal in 3020.

Also, what if Katrina said "No" to the idea of marrying her 10 year old off to some guy in his 30's who would be 45 by the time they got married.

So 3questions arise.

1.  Who does Hanse marry in a pre-3020 marriage scenario? 

2.  If he was single still but Katrina said no, is there anyone in the LC that would have made a suitable marriage to at least bring the realms closer?
  (I'm thinking maybe the Duchess of Skye in 3022?)

3.  What about choosing to marry Melissa off to Morgan HD instead since they were only 5 years apart?


Does any of the above lead to a united FC eventually?   Perhaps a generation or 2 down the road after a longer time period of being allies?

The children of the above 2 scenarios would be 1st Cousins once removed, so in theory, its legal if a bit too close for comfort.

After another generation has passed the DNA connection is starting to get thin & gives you opportunities to possibly mix in the Robinson or Coventry Noble Families to tie the biggest parts of the realm together.

Maybe a younger Tancred marries a different/older daughter of Hanse?

Would the C* alliance w/ the DC that formed the Ghost Regiments have still happened & lead to the "draw" of the Wo39?

Does the military alliance have the strength needed to fend of the JF invasion when 3050 might have just been seeing some early wedding plans for Hanse & Mellisa's respective Grandchildren?

What do you think?

[SCC]

This results in Hanse likely having a son only a few years younger then Melissa so Victor ends up his grandson and maybe a few years younger. This extra heartbeat between Victor and being the Archon-Prince derails the FedCom Civil War as Hasne's son ISN'T on Tharkad when Melissa is killed.

Lots of other consequences too, like when the 4SW starts the NAIS has had the Helm Core in it's possession for several years, Clan Invasion is later.

[Gallowglacht]

 If the plan is to create a new realm through personal union, it has to be Prince and Archon.

For a simple alliance the Duchess of Skye or Morgan Hasek-Davion work. They would also work if the plan is personal union with these people appointed as Archon or First Prince.

And as crazy as hot having clear heirs is, it happens in real life. Alexander the Great and Queen Elizabeth both failed to have secure heirs in place. In Macedonia's case this lead to massive succession wars and in England's case England was inherited by the Scottish King.

[The Eagle]

If I remember correctly, there was an attempt to wed Therese Marik to Hanse in the 30-teens, which is why she eloped with Jeremy Brett.  Imagine a Free Worlds-FedSuns squeeze of the CapCon....

[Hellraiser]

If I remember correctly, there was an attempt to wed Therese Marik to Hanse in the 30-teens, which is why she eloped with Jeremy Brett.  Imagine a Free Worlds-FedSuns squeeze of the CapCon....

Interesting, I'd never heard this one before.

I went to research more but it looks like it wasn't Hanse.  It was someone from Regulas and it was 3008 or earlier since she married Jeremy in 3008.

Her father, Captain-General Janos Marik, wanted her to marry a prominent official within the Regulan Free States, Corbin Tkaczuk, to foster an alliance.

[Hellraiser]

This results in Hanse likely having a son only a few years younger then Melissa so Victor ends up his grandson and maybe a few years younger. This extra heartbeat between Victor and being the Archon-Prince derails the FedCom Civil War as Hasne's son ISN'T on Tharkad when Melissa is killed.

Lots of other consequences too, like when the 4SW starts the NAIS has had the Helm Core in it's possession for several years, Clan Invasion is later.

I'm thinking the "Hanse Jr." & "Melissa Jr." are probably closer to 8-10 years apart, so maybe 20 & 29 or so in 3050.

I'm assuming that the 4th SW still goes off the same since that really was about the initial alliance & gutting the CC while punching the DC in the cheek.

Still maybe have a Marriage with everyone there on Terra if its Morgan & Melissa as that is still enough of an alliance to make people sit up & take notice.

If both of the marriages happen above (Morgan+Melissa & Hanse/Aten) then I wonder if/how the mid 30's Skye Revolt happens.
If it does is it even worse or with Hanse & Mrs. Aten married for over a decade is it squashed quick & painless. 

Which then means does the Wo3039 actually happen 5 years earlier like it was planned & go off before the Ghost Regiments are formed, if they even get formed still since its possible this alliance doesn't quite trigger the response from C* (But I'm thinking it still would).

Makes me sort of wonder about Lestrade's attempt on Katrina's life, with Hanse in his backyard is the target instead Hanse, or is there no attempt & Jenna Clay lives on to marry Dan Allard.

[RunandFindOut]

That would make for a potentially very interesting AU.  The FedSuns don't really have a beef with the Mariks having been separated by the CapCon.  Both whom have had more than a few wars with the Capellans.  And forming an alliance there doesn't double the FedSuns frontage on the DC, whom they can both be certain won't make an alliance with the Lyrans.  And swallowing up the CapCon will lead to at least a generation of internal guerilla problems and the economic issues that come with having to reform the CapCon into something that can be a useful part of the new alliance.

Plus it means different children, whom hopefully wouldn't screw up the first good thing to happen in the IS in a long time. 

[Wrangler]

Bit of a twist.  Then again there Candace Liao.  She could end up marrying Hanse as well.

[Hellraiser]

Bit of a twist.  Then again there Candace Liao.  She could end up marrying Hanse as well.

I've heard of this mentioned before, but was this ever a possibility?

I can't find anything on Sarna & Max seemed like too much of an enemy of Hanse to ever marry her to him.

[Wrangler]

I've heard of this mentioned before, but was this ever a possibility?

I can't find anything on Sarna & Max seemed like too much of an enemy of Hanse to ever marry her to him.

The Double was suppose to have married her, if Hanse's doppelganger had succeeded.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Also the alternate fiction of the Confed Suns..

.

The Double was suppose to have married her, if Hanse's doppelganger had succeeded.

[glitterboy2098]

Given his grudge against Max Liao over the double, i highly doubt he'd have considered that.

is there someone in the Combine close enough to the ruling family but far enough out of the line of succession that he might have been able to swing a peace agreement marriage? it wouldn't be the unification he'd get from the lyrans, but would still be a political coup.

and would he even consider one of the periphery realms? Taurians are unlikely i imagine, the outworlds doesn't have a ruling family to my knowledge, and the canopians are on the opposite side of the CapCon.. probably good strategic location, but would be hard to forge a union there.

[Archangel]

I think binge watching Game of Thrones has got the idea of Marriage making Alliances in my head.

So in my mental musings I got to thinking about how unlikely it should have been that the First Prince had no heir for the first 17 years of his reign....
 yeah,  17  YEARS,  that seems rather unlikely right?

IIRC, he did loose his fiance in 3013 just as he took power, but he had 7 years to find a new GF & secure the future of the family line.

I'm thinking within 5 years of being 1st Prince someone should have pointed out that the realm needs a legacy & he should have been married with children by the time Katrina give her Peace Proposal in 3020.

What do you think?

What do I think?  I see a lot of assumptions with no evidence to support them.

First, when he 'officially' became First Prince he was likely still suffering the after-effects of losing his brother, losing his fiancée and the failed attempt to replace his with a Double.  Not to mention that he was thrown into the deep end of the pool without any real preparation.  Ian was their father's heir and while he intellectually knew he was Ian's heir, Hanse likely had little serious preparation for becoming First Prince.  All this combined doesn't exactly allow a person to be emotionally ready for an engagement.

Second, given the fact that we know little to nothing about the early years of Hanse's reign (or the rest for that matter), where is it stated that nobody attempted to get him to marry or attempted to put forth one of their family members (or themselves a la Baroness de Gambier with Daniel Allard) as a potential wife?  And while there may be many noble families in the Federated Suns, how many of them would have had an unwed daughter of proper age with the proper pedigree and social/political background just waiting in the wings for a chance to marry the First Prince?  To put off those who refused to drop it, Hanse would have likely pointed to his brother's 14-year unmarried reign, promised that he would be more circumspect than his brother, pointed out that he did have a heir that could take over if necessary and that if they did like it, tough.  After all who is going to try and force the First Prince to marry if he doesn't want to?  The two people who might have been able to persuade him would have been Ian (deceased) and his best friend, Ardan Sortek, who Hanse "The Fox" Davion would have know how to get him to drop the subject when he tried to force it.

Even after negotiations started between House Davion and House Steiner for the marriage and until the official public announcement was made, prospects likely continued to come/were put before him.  All the negotiations were top secret and only a few knew the full details of what the negotiations were about.

As far as marrying Melissa off to Morgan Hasek-Davion, it would have been too difficult to arrange a marriage between Melissa and Morgan while keeping Michael Hasek-Davion out of the loop.  It would have likely required telling Morgan about their suspicions regarding his father so he would keep the secret from him and he likely first wouldn't believe them but would then demand the right to confront his father.
 
Regarding Candace Liao, wasn't she heading down the path towards madness that her sister, Romano, had already gone down before she took up with Justin Xiang who saved her from that fate?   ;)

[Luciora]

Candace?  Madness?  THIS IS CAPELLA!

Ahem.  I think the detente provided by having some leverage in the Liao courts first would have been enabled that if the CC had been allowed to develop like Taiwan and not like China/Korea.  It would have been not too hard to give them a reason to stay separate and still keep the CC's boundaries by treachery, politics or even "Thanks for helping us overthrow Romano but stay in your side of the border please."

[Wrangler]

Technically speaking Candace was next in line for the throne of the Confederation after Max's son was removed from succession.

[glitterboy2098]

she was also one of the lone voices of sanity in that madhouse. but until Justin Allard i don't think that she ever really considered anything beyond just surviving long enough to take the throne.

as long as Max Liao was the guy in charge of the CapCon i don't think Hanse would have considered any offer.. and from what we see in the warrior trilogy, until Justin showed up, Candace was on shaky enough ground in the byzantine family politics of house Liao that i doubt she would have been able to arrange a successful Coup to replace Max..

[haesslich]

Bit of a twist.  Then again there Candace Liao.  She could end up marrying Hanse as well.

Your Empires Aflame is showing.  8)

[Iron Grenadier]

With my current campaign winding down, I started an AU detailing an alliance between the FedSun and FWL. It was initiated actually by Steiner's peace proposal, Hanse thought it was a great idea, but his goal was crushing the Capellan Confederation. To his thinking, the FWL would make a better ally to do that than the LyrCom.

My first draft had Hanse getting married to Kristen Marik.

[RunandFindOut]

It makes sense.  Plus it would be very interesting to see the political issues resulting from a merge of the FS and FWL, as well as those of attempting to absorb a fully conquered CapCon.  Plus the tensions from said changes in the makeup of the Sphere and the destruction of a Great House would probably lead to more interesting situations as the DC and Lyrans respond.

[glitterboy2098]

With my current campaign winding down, I started an AU detailing an alliance between the FedSun and FWL. It was initiated actually by Steiner's peace proposal, Hanse thought it was a great idea, but his goal was crushing the Capellan Confederation. To his thinking, the FWL would make a better ally to do that than the LyrCom.

My first draft had Hanse getting married to Kristen Marik.

pretty sure that the looming FWL civil war would sink that alliance fast.. remember that Janos Marik was already facing a lot of internal strife. it was something of a miracle that he lasted to 3035 (when he was killed by Duncan Marik, during yet another civil war aka the Andurien succession)

in a FS+FWL union aimed at fighting the Capcon, odds are that the Anduriens would try to leave earlier.. their independence streak being strengthened by a merger with the more aristocratic FS, and the fact that lots of FWLM troops would have to be stationed in Andurien for the upcoming war with the capcon (since Andurien makes up a good chunk of the FWL/CC front) both would come across as outside forces trying to take over Andurien..

[SCC]

The alliance could possibly stabilize the FWL, at the very least there are likely to be political changes. The institution of Double Dissolution Elections (Two successive failed fiance bills triggers a general election) would likely have a MAJOR impact.

[Iron Grenadier]

pretty sure that the looming FWL civil war would sink that alliance fast.. remember that Janos Marik was already facing a lot of internal strife. it was something of a miracle that he lasted to 3035 (when he was killed by Duncan Marik, during yet another civil war aka the Andurien succession)

in a FS+FWL union aimed at fighting the Capcon, odds are that the Anduriens would try to leave earlier.. their independence streak being strengthened by a merger with the more aristocratic FS, and the fact that lots of FWLM troops would have to be stationed in Andurien for the upcoming war with the capcon (since Andurien makes up a good chunk of the FWL/CC front) both would come across as outside forces trying to take over Andurien..

The Marik Civil War was over in 3015, and Katrina Steiner sent out her peace proposal in 3020 if I recall correctly. I was under the impression the Anduriens hated the Capellans? I figured that would, at least in the short term, get the Anduriens on board and not trigger another civil war.

[SCC]

They more or less had a second one after the 4th was over, Andurien in alliance with Canopus invaded the CC and it didn't go so well.

[Iron Grenadier]

Here are my notes. Again this was strictly for my AU -

 - Hanse Davion becomes First Prince in 3013.
 - Hanse and Michael Hasek-Davion have issues.
 - Hanse has his intelligence people place Hasek under surveillance.
 - As a result of surveillance they uncover proof of Hasek working with Liao.
 - Furthermore, they uncover proof that Liao is working with Anton Marik.
 - Said information is shared with Janos.
 - Hanse and Janos get rid of the family black sheep. No Anton's Revolt.
 - Katrina Steiner sends out Peace Proposal.
 - Hanse tells Janos they worked well together before.
 - Work on a alliance/union to crush the Capelllan Confederation.
 - Hanse marries Kristen Marik.
 - CapCon is wiped out (actually small group under Tormano survives).

If I were to continue this particular line of thinking, Andurien would secede perhaps a decade later, so still fairly close to the canon timeline.

I'm probably going to end up doing something a little different though that keeps the FedSun and FWL as separate entities.

[The Eagle]

Andurien would be more likely to support an alliance with the Davions than to oppose it precisely because it put Max Liao's gonads in a vice.  There's no need for the Canopus alliance to destroy the CapCon when you've got the AFFS squeezing the Cappies from the other end.

[Archangel]

she was also one of the lone voices of sanity in that madhouse. but until Justin Allard i don't think that she ever really considered anything beyond just surviving long enough to take the throne.

Completely incorrect.  She had plenty of plans including:
-cutting Romano's head off with a sword,
-squashing Romano with her 'Mech,
-having Romano drawn and quartered,
-shoving Romano out an airlock into space,
-burying Romano in the desert up to her neck and leaving her there,
-etc etc etc  >:D

[Von Jankmon]

Melissa was not too young.

Teen betrothal haveworked in history, the alliance is in the now the marriage i the future.  It is also better that way as it meant the alliance could be forged in secret and well under way.

Had Hanse been any older he could have offered to marry Katrina instead, it would have been potentially more problematic, but from what we knew of Melissa she would have accepted her half brother/sister as Archon-Prince faithfully.

[Hellraiser]

Had Hanse been any older he could have offered to marry Katrina instead, it would have been potentially more problematic, but from what we knew of Melissa she would have accepted her half brother/sister as Archon-Prince faithfully.

Hanse was plenty old enough. 
The issue was Katrina could no longer have children. 
At least I'm pretty sure I recall that in fiction somewhere.

[Wrangler]

Hanse was plenty old enough. 
The issue was Katrina could no longer have children. 
At least I'm pretty sure I recall that in fiction somewhere.

From exclusively the Warrior novels, i don't think that was the case. I think she choose not to remarry. 
Also her daughter was Heir-Apparent, so even if she had a child with Hanse, that child would not be the combined leader of both Houses.  Katrina was a one-man-guy.  Heck she more likely marry Morgan than Hanse any day of the week i would suspected if they weren't related by marriage.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

she was also one of the lone voices of sanity in that madhouse. but until Justin Allard i don't think that she ever really considered anything beyond just surviving long enough to take the throne.

as long as Max Liao was the guy in charge of the CapCon i don't think Hanse would have considered any offer.. and from what we see in the warrior trilogy, until Justin showed up, Candace was on shaky enough ground in the byzantine family politics of house Liao that i doubt she would have been able to arrange a successful Coup to replace Max..

Even if Candace had managed to off Max and Romano, I doubt she would have lasted long on the Celestial Throne before the Thuggees went after her.