Why no VTOL heavy APCs?

[worktroll]

So we have the near-identical wheeled, hover, and tracked heavy APCs.

Is there any logical, in-universe reason why we never got a heavy VTOL APC? It's bugging me.

Yes, there are some variants of combat VTOLs with some form of infantry bays, but the Pinto (WoB) is the only one with a 6-ton infantry bay. One faction, one period - hardly useful. Or the Falcon support vehicle, which according to the MUL is always extinct.

There are some more options at 3 ton bays, but ... a VTOL heavy APC has 8/12 move, much like its hover cousin, but offers some additional flexibility.

Ah well, one can always customise - but does anyone else a) have a good reason why we don't have one, or b) think it'd fill a niche?

W.

[marauder648]

We got some in more recent books like the Cardinal - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cardinal  but it is odd that there's no Chinook/Sea King analogue anywhere for ages.

[AldanFerrox]

We have a Mi-24 Hind analogue, the Lamprey. But it has only a 4 ton bay. You could probably built a transport version that deletes the SRM's, adds two medium lasers (it has a fusion engine after all) and use the remaining tonnage to upgrade the infantry bay to 6 tons.

[lrose]

You're forgetting the Karnov UR and Cobra Transport.  Yes they look more like V-22s then Chinooks, but both are built using the VTOL rules and have large cargo bays. 

[Kidd]

Arguably, the Karnov.

There are even a few useful post-Helm upgrade variants.

edit: ninja'd, great minds think alike Irose

[Sharpnel]

If you're looking for a solid introductory level VTOL APC. Just strip the Warrior of all its weapons, increase speed by one, mount two MGs and see if you can fit 6 tons of Infantry on board. I'm nowhere near my laptop or I'd post it my self. You also may want to drop weight down to 20 tons.

[AldanFerrox]

If you're looking for a solid introductory level VTOL APC. Just strip the Warrior of all its weapons, increase speed by one, mount two MGs and see if you can fit 6 tons of Infantry on board. I'm nowhere near my laptop or I'd post it my self. You also may want to drop weight down to 20 tons.

It works. And if you stay at 21 tons you can even give it more armor.

[Wolf72]

If speed isn't a top priority go the Yellow Jacket route ... 30t, 40 rated engine (move only 6/9).  If they put a Gauss rifle on there, you can fit a 10-12 ton infantry compartment.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Mark VIIs and similar craft probably rendered dedicated VTOL APCs unnecessary.  Granted they're probably best served as nontactical transports, but tactical insertion by air of conventional infantry seems to have been accomplished via paratroopers.  Small craft or Planetlifters could also deploy Jump Platoons rather than paratroopers.  Either way, simply doesn't seem to be a lot of need for dedicated flying APCs when existing flying transports already are available.

[Daryk]

Until they fix the vertical take off and landing rules for Small Craft, Mark VIIs are no solution (despite how much I think they should be).

[Hellraiser]

Is there any logical, in-universe reason why we never got a heavy VTOL APC? It's bugging me.

There are some more options at 3 ton bays, but ... a VTOL heavy APC has 8/12 move, much like its hover cousin, but offers some additional flexibility. 

Because this baby is faster & faster = better
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Karnov

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Until they fix the vertical take off and landing rules for Small Craft, Mark VIIs are no solution (despite how much I think they should be).

My point was that they didn't have to land.

If you want some conventional infantry delivered into battle by air, you have them ride in an overflying aircraft and jump out the back with parachutes or jump packs.  Conventional infantry was never important enough to warrant drop, then pick up, then re-drop, then pick up again, then re-drop again... all in the same battle.  Not generally, anyway.  As for the Mark VII, if it's an airmobile rather than an air assault kind of deployment, you can have the Mark VII just land in an open field.  Don't need fancy runways; offload oodles of troops then take off again to return to garrison to pick up more troops and repeat.  As a small craft, you have what a VTOL APC will never have in the ability to deliver your troops from anywhere on the planet to anywhere else on the planet.

For recon and special forces purposes, there are a handful of specialist VTOLs in the introtech era like the Peregrine, Kestrel, and Ferret. But they're not the sort of VTOL's you'd want hopping on and off the ground in an active battle, so certainly wouldn't be considered flying APCs.

[Terrace]

It's probably best to pair VTOLs with Jump Infantry from a fluff perspective, simply because they can use their Jump Packs to disembark in mid-air. I have no idea whether the rules allow them to do this, and you'd probably have to land the VTOL to load the troops up once they're done with whatever mission they were doing. Which leaves it for the Special Forces role, dammit...

[SCC]

Guys' your missing the question which is actually two fold:
1) Why when the original Heavy Hover, Tracked, and Wheeled APC's where designed wasn't there a Heavy VTOL APC designed as well?
2) Why hasn't this been corrected since then?

[Sartris]

Wheeled APC —> Heavy Wheeled APC
Tracked APC —> Heavy Tracked APC
Hover APC —> Heavy Hover APC
Ferret VTOL —> ???

Give us the Super Ferret we all want and deserve

[bluedragon7]

Karnov?

[Maingunnery]

Guys' your missing the question which is actually two fold:
1) Why when the original Heavy Hover, Tracked, and Wheeled APC's where designed wasn't there a Heavy VTOL APC designed as well?
2) Why hasn't this been corrected since then?

1&2. They all had the same ugly body, a VTOL version might have been too horrific to contemplate. 

[Daryk]

I agree... The Ferret --> Karnov relationship was around long before Heavy versions of the other APCs were published.

[Takiro]

Currently i am trying to make the Peregrine VTOL more useful as a spotter craft but i suppose the fragility of the helicopter it the Battletech world maked it undesirable for already fragile infantry.

[anastrace]

I like many others have used Karnovs to deploy troops very, very often. It's nice to have a transport that can clear a LZ with underwing rockets, then drop a nice group of infantry for a friendly "chat" with your enemies.

Though not a VTOL, I've also used the planetlifter to great effect.

[truetanker]

Really, a pair of Warrior H-7As, AC/5 Guships, backed up by another pair of H-7Cs, LRM-10 toters, following a pair of Karnov / Cobra carrying troops makes for a fun Combat Drop! You could even swap out the H-7Cs for a flight of MechBusters!

TT

[anastrace]

Really, a pair of Warrior H-7As, AC/5 Guships, backed up by another pair of H-7Cs, LRM-10 toters, following a pair of Karnov / Cobra carrying troops makes for a fun Combat Drop! You could even swap out the H-7Cs for a flight of MechBusters!

TT

I love mechbusters so much! Sure, they ARE going to die whenever someone shoots anything other than a spitball at them, but AC/20 to the back is always worth it.

[Sharpnel]

If you're looking for a solid introductory level VTOL APC. Just strip the Warrior of all its weapons, increase speed by one, mount two MGs and see if you can fit 6 tons of Infantry on board. I'm nowhere near my laptop or I'd post it my self. You also may want to drop weight down to 20 tons.

I've posted an APC variant of the Warrior HERE

[Kit deSummersville]

Guys' your missing the question which is actually two fold:
1) Why when the original Heavy Hover, Tracked, and Wheeled APC's where designed wasn't there a Heavy VTOL APC designed as well?

Because they all use almost identical rules for generation and publication. The VTOL is a bit different.

2) Why hasn't this been corrected since then?

Clearly other stuff was deemed more important.

[Archangel]

Well there is now the Crane VTOL with its eight ton infantry compartment isn't there?

[truetanker]

Crane is newer, for tried and true VTOL... there isn't any Real Vtol APCs.

TT

[Daryk]

Ferrets and Karnovs are as real as you get with a rotor on top.

[truetanker]

Technically, Karnovs ARE tilt-rotor.

TT

[Daryk]

And by the rules, they can still only put two points of armor on them...

[Kidd]

Technically, Karnovs ARE tilt-rotor.

TT

What's wrong with that? Doesn't disqualify em from being utility VTOLs... just ask the US Marine Corps.