Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Woodsman  (Read 28881 times)

Moonsword

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Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« on: 10 June 2011, 10:37:31 »
Mech of the Week: Woodsman

The first Clan Wolf heavy OmniMech and the product of a much more careful design process rather than the rush job of many of its contemporaries, the Woodsman's shadow over the history of the Clans is long and proud.  For all that, the design is still a bit enigmatic, an enigma that I find intriguing.  We only have firm knowledge two configurations and hints of a third but one of them is the father of the most famous OmniMech configuration in all of BattleTech.  In the end, faced with the raising tide of Clan technology, the Woodsman went under, the faster heavy OmniMechs pushing the design and ultimately requiring successors to be designed.  (Contrary to what's implied in Golden Century, the Warhawk had little to do with that process.  It may have been sounding a death knell but the Timber Wolf was already off the assembly line at that point.)  Finally finding a worthy successor with the 2945 introduction of the Timber Wolf (itself the father of the Mad Cat Mks II and III as well as GM's Rakshasa  and contributing to the Mad Dog), a twin Arrow IV configuration inspired the Naga, and the Gargoyle (known as the Man O' War) to the Inner Sphere also traces its roots to the Woodsman's design.  The indirect influence its victories and defeats may have had on Clan 'Mech design is difficult to estimate but no doubt substantial.  For a 'Mech that was extinct by Operation Revival, that's quite a legacy.

The main resemblances to the Timber Wolf are the podspace, the 75 ton size, and the endo-steel frame.   Otherwise, visually, the Woodsman's design is far closer to the Gargoyle, especially the limb and hip design, but without giving the impression that the 'Mech is bucking for MVP in the Kerensky League.  The torso assembly actually reminds me somewhat of the Reseen Marauder family, though, particularly the MAD-9M.  The engine is a 300-rated Wolf standard fusion engine, providing the housing for 12 double heat sinks and a maximum speed of 64 kph, although a MASC system lets it accelerate to 86 kph for short distances.  13.5 tons of good old Durallex Heavy standard plate provides for protection 14 points lighter than the Timber Wolf's but fairly similar to the Night Gyr's in distribution.  Everything on the front passes the AC/20 test with 33 points on the CT, 23 on the sides, 22 on the arms, and 30 on the legs, with 10 and 7 points protecting the rear center and sides - not max but quite acceptable.  Care was taken to leave the right torso completely open with most of the endo-steel in the legs and head, while the MASC is in the left torso.  All of this together leaves a famous figure for podspace, the very same 27.5 tons carried by the Timber Wolf.  While the armor, speed, and engine changes leave a direct match to the Timber Wolf largely down to the pilots, terrain, and dice, one clear advantage goes to the newer 'Mech with three additional fixed freezers in its larger engine.  Those planning to adapt Timber Wolf configurations for their own games should keep this in mind.

The Woodsman Prime is very similar to the Timber Wolf Prime, something Golden Century promptly hangs a lampshade on, and might just have the edge on the more famous successor under some circumstances.  I'm sure most of you don't need me to tell you the full specs given just how many of us know the highlights by heart but since I'm such a swell excessively verbose and loquacious guy, I'm going to do it anyway.  The arms sport the classic over/under combination of an extended-range large and extended-range medium laser.  Each torso has an LRM 15 instead of the large 20 racks on the Timber Wolf but their endurance is doubled thanks to the three tons of ammo in the right torso.  The torso laser is an ERML instead of the MPL with only a half-ton of machine gun ammo (which is still more than enough to turn the right torso into slag a dozen times over with no help from the LRM rounds).  An ERSL was mounted in the left torso to get rid of that hanging half-ton.  Instead of the two freezers mounted by a Timber Wolf Prime, five were carried.  At long range, the combination means that it can slam the LRMs and ERLLs downrange without any heat gain, or you can use the an ERLL, two ERMLs, and both racks if you want to move for a neutral heat load.  For the endurance or ability to shrug off external heat, it may be worth using on a Timber Wolf, and the differences fit the Woodsman like a glove.

The Woodsman A is the practically obligatory flashbulb sniper that all good OmniMechs have always wanted to have when they grow up or possibly just some crazy Wolf love letter to the MAD-3D.  Historically, it was the predecessor to the Gargoyle A.  Each arm hosts an ER PPC for a head-capping doubletap.  The centerline has an ERSL and an MPL, with another medium pulse laser in the left torso.  Opposite the medium is a large, the third of the heavy weapons.  This one runs nastily hot on you if you're not careful, not even able to fire all three heavy energy weapons without losing an MP, but your opponent is definitely going to know they got hit.  Personally, I'd use it like an Awesome at longer ranges, rotating one of the ER PPCs in and out to cool off, while up close, switch to all three pulse lasers and an ER PPC unless you get excellent numbers to just open up completely.  This one is going to be an enormous pain to put down without any explosive hazards short of a golden BB, a rare case of a heavy pure zombie OmniMech configuration.  If you get the opportunity, an alpha may be worth considering.  It's fairly likely to shut the 'Mech down but your enemy may not be around to argue the point.

Respect your MASC failure chance and don't use it thoughtlessly.  5+ is reasonably safe but can still go disastrously wrong - I had one blow during testing that nearly got me drubbed and definitely got the Woodsman into the graveyard ahead of schedule.  Don't ride it any higher than 7+ if you've got any intention of being mobile afterward and I don't recommend doing that without a very good reason.  MASC can be a useful tool but be prepared for Murphy to bite you.  Otherwise, aggression is your friend here.  The Wolf is a cunning predator, cautious when it should be and bold when it must be.  Emulate it at a Woodsman's controls.

Stopping a Woodsman is... interesting.  I can see why it finally went down once it had more competitors on the field - especially with the Timber Wolf around - but this is not a chump 'Mech.   The armor is solid, so you need hole punchers to bore it down or a lot of middling (5 to 7 point) hits to shear it off.  You need crit-seekers to punch out a Prime's ammo or score the sort of slow accretion of criticals that wears down a zombie beast like the A.  Speed can push it around and, eventually, MASC failure will, sooner or later, catch up with every single one of them at the wrong time but the problem with statistics is that there's no Law of Small Numbers.  There's just not a winning strategy here other than perseverance and general good tactics.

Reference: The MUL's Woodsman Prime page includes a picture and notes on sources.  It also has a link to the A for checking BVs and availability.  As with the Lupus, the Woodsman was extinct by the Jihad.
« Last Edit: 10 June 2011, 10:40:59 by Moonsword »

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #1 on: 11 June 2011, 10:40:07 »
You know. I found it weird that they made the Woodsman so good!  The only real concession I can see is the 4/6[8] speed bracket it has going on, which purely from a strategic point of view be negative against a force consisting of 5/8 but tactically? Holy Smokes this baby would give as good as it gets . Surely whoever designed this must have seen what replaced it and would have figured out to make it more terrible than what we got!



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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #2 on: 11 June 2011, 16:08:54 »
Thank you for your article! I love the Woodsman. The art is also wonderful (but I love even more the scuplt that Wackrabbit did). I don't have anything against the chasis. MASC turns it into a interesting unit.

  I remember that this mech caused a lot of discussion some time ago. It is a good mech with speed and firepower. And it is CHEAP. VERY CHEAP to build. If CW/CWiE wanted a cheap omnimech this one is the first option.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #3 on: 11 June 2011, 21:30:02 »
Nice write up Moonsword.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #4 on: 12 June 2011, 10:01:03 »
A really solid omnimech, the SFE is a real selling point as it would still give the Kingfisher a run for its money as the toughest of omnimechs.

Nice write up Moonsword.

Why heck is MUL not showing the picture, is just me?

The picture shows up fine for me ???

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #5 on: 12 June 2011, 10:35:48 »
Honestly, I would use a Woodsman over a Timber Wolf.
Simply because: the Woodsman has a standard engine. I wish there was someway to
actually get one in the Jihad era...same with the Coyotl.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #6 on: 12 June 2011, 12:08:17 »
I agree, like G&D said, the clans could use some low cost/SFE omnimechs to help rebuild after the Jihad - especially since they would be able to get the SFEs from IS suppliers.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #7 on: 12 June 2011, 12:55:40 »
Honestly, I would use a Woodsman over a Timber Wolf.
Simply because: the Woodsman has a standard engine.
Never ever.
This argument could be valid for ISXL, but not for the clans. A CXLFE gives you a lot of advantages w/o an insta-kill after loosing a side torso.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #8 on: 12 June 2011, 13:22:28 »
Never ever.
This argument could be valid for ISXL, but not for the clans. A CXLFE gives you a lot of advantages w/o an insta-kill after loosing a side torso.

Not an insta-kill, no, but you're still only one more engine hit away from it (provided you haven't already taken one elsewhere) and building up those pesky extra 10 heat points per turn. Standard engines have their perks.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #9 on: 12 June 2011, 14:41:51 »
Not an insta-kill, no, but you're still only one more engine hit away from it (provided you haven't already taken one elsewhere) and building up those pesky extra 10 heat points per turn. Standard engines have their perks.
If you try to fight on with such a damaged mech, you will not live long enough.
And before the "clan" argument will arise: If they are so desperate to produce lesser quality omnis (in-universe POV) after the losses of the Jihad, than they will slso change the fighting style.

BTW, as a CXLFE equipped mech is faster and/or better armed and armored than a SFE equipped one, the SFE machine will be in trouble more early...
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #10 on: 12 June 2011, 15:16:23 »
If you try to fight on with such a damaged mech, you will not live long enough.
And before the "clan" argument will arise: If they are so desperate to produce lesser quality omnis (in-universe POV) after the losses of the Jihad, than they will slso change the fighting style.

BTW, as a CXLFE equipped mech is faster and/or better armed and armored than a SFE equipped one, the SFE machine will be in trouble more early...

Hasn't really been my experience, truth be told. XL designs can't exceed the same armor point limits that hold for their standard engined relatives, so they tend to end up 'only' faster and/or packing more guns...which tends to turn them into the proverbial stars that burn twice as bright but only half as long. I've seen them fall to standard engined opponents plenty of times -- dealing out potentially terrible punishment first, it's true, but all too often simply not enough of it to compensate for their own increased vulnerability. And this holds as true for the Clan side of things (where even the SFE machines get access to Clan weapons, after all) as it does for the Inner Sphere.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #11 on: 12 June 2011, 15:37:01 »
Hasn't really been my experience, truth be told. XL designs can't exceed the same armor point limits that hold for their standard engined relatives, [....]
Not every mech is armored to maximum, but with XL you have more tonnage available.
And this holds as true for the Clan side of things (where even the SFE machines get access to Clan weapons, after all) as it does for the Inner Sphere.
IS yes, Clan not my experience.

But thats not the point of the discussion of the Woodsman.
At the end of the day everyone will choose the mechs which suit him/her most, and I personally have no phobia either to field XLFE equipped mechs (Clan and IS alike) nor face SFE equipped-only forces  :)
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #12 on: 12 June 2011, 15:48:07 »
Not every mech is armored to maximum, but with XL you have more tonnage available.

Which means exactly zip if you can't or won't invest more of that tonnage into armor, is all I'm saying. Given equal armor levels, whether maxed out or not, the XL design is apt to go down significantly faster.

Which is, of course, why I have no phobia about using standard-engined 'Mechs against ones with XLFEs. ;)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #13 on: 12 June 2011, 18:16:58 »

The Woodsman is a solid design that's gained significant favor in my playgroup. Both configurations make for good generalist units on the line. But I don't hesitate playing the Alpha in an urban environment. It's a tough (and dangerous) machine in that role.

Just my two cents worth.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2011, 18:30:22 »
Shame its not still around, but I'll undoubtedly nab some for my Clan forces when the mini is out.  Would be a nice ride for a second-line unit since Toads can ride along.  Really like its looks. 

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #15 on: 12 June 2011, 20:46:50 »
Demos...please note the faction in my avatar...
Clan Standard Engines are the best! They maximize the durability of the 'mech and minimize the cost.

And, I have won before with a Blood Kite that was down to just the CT, Head, and legs...can you do that with
your XL engined warhawk?

Speed and more guns is not everything. I am not a big fan of Glass Cannons.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #16 on: 13 June 2011, 19:22:55 »
Referring to the Warhawk as a glass canon is an insult to Lao Hus everywhere.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #17 on: 13 June 2011, 19:24:33 »
Not to mention Blood Kites should be renamed to Blood Fireworks Displays.  8)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #18 on: 13 June 2011, 19:38:51 »
Good mech, wish the entire Klondike/Golden Century series had more IS tech in them instead of the quick progression of clan tech, this one is a nice mech.
Given the old fluff I really expected it to be an 80 ton IS-Tech Omni that evolved into the Naga & Gargoyle when Clan Tech hit mainstream production.


Since I don't use C-Bills in anything but a Merc campaign I see no issue with the SFE in a clan design.
The MASC as suggested in the fluff is the key weak point here.
Anyone trying to keep up w/ a Summoner will likely push it and when your 4/6(8)/0 suddenly becomes 3/5 or 2/3 and Kingfishers are passing you, well, it makes sense to me that it was phased out in favor of newer mechs.

Nice Article.  And I love the Arrow configuration, just enough space for 15 rounds & an ERSL/Flamer.
Perfect for supporting a fast clan like engagement.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #19 on: 13 June 2011, 19:42:27 »
Not to mention Blood Kites should be renamed to Blood Fireworks Displays.  8)

Then you are not using them right. I have never suffered an ammo explosion in a Blood Kite....
And I run the things like a crazy rifleman pilot.

Referring to the Warhawk as a glass canon is an insult to Lao Hus everywhere.

Anything with an XL engine, clan or inner sphere, is a Glass Cannon...well...except for the Hellbringer..that is more a
Hammer and Eggshell...since glass can take more punishment then a Hellbringer.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #20 on: 13 June 2011, 20:07:19 »
Anything with an XL engine, clan or inner sphere, is a Glass Cannon...well...except for the Hellbringer..that is more a
Hammer and Eggshell...since glass can take more punishment then a Hellbringer.

So you'd call the Warhawk a glass canon but not the less durable 3025 Crusader?  ???
« Last Edit: 13 June 2011, 21:24:27 by Kit deSummersville »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #21 on: 13 June 2011, 21:01:24 »
So you'd call the Warhawk a glass canon but not the less durable 3025 Crusader?  ???

3025 Crusader? You mean the "Deathtrap"?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #22 on: 13 June 2011, 21:05:58 »
Anything with an XL engine, clan or inner sphere, is a Glass Cannon...
I'm inclined to say that many a DireWolf would disagree with you.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #23 on: 13 June 2011, 21:09:05 »
I'm inclined to say that many a DireWolf would disagree with you.

Please! I've taken Dire Wolves down with Riflemans! They aren't all that!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #24 on: 13 June 2011, 21:11:56 »
Please! I've taken Dire Wolves down with Riflemans! They aren't all that!
Yes yes, so you've said.
Somehow I don't think that it would happen 9 out of 10 games however.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #25 on: 13 June 2011, 22:40:29 »
Yes yes, so you've said.
Somehow I don't think that it would happen 9 out of 10 games however.

 It only  has to happen once.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #26 on: 14 June 2011, 00:11:18 »
Please! I've taken Dire Wolves down with Riflemans! They aren't all that!
You, and which army else?  ;)
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #27 on: 14 June 2011, 03:45:22 »
Good mech, wish the entire Klondike/Golden Century series had more IS tech in them instead of the quick progression of clan tech, this one is a nice mech.
Given the old fluff I really expected it to be an 80 ton IS-Tech Omni that evolved into the Naga & Gargoyle when Clan Tech hit mainstream production.

Agreed.  I too was expecting an 80-tonner with 5/8 movement.  Previously, we never had any reason to suspect the Timber Wolf was anything other than an evolution of the Catapult. 

Visually at least, you can still see the links with the Gargoyle in the hip and leg design, and the Naga with the cockpit and centre torso.
But making the Woodsman the ancestor of the T-Wolf as well seems to me to be a bit contrived.

Even though it's not an standard 'Mech, I think one could also draw a connection between the Woodsman and the Tundra Wolf...?
The 4/6 + MASC movement profile and tonnage are the biggest similarities, though the Tundra Wolf is more reminiscent of the Orion IIC in other ways.

cheers,

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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #28 on: 14 June 2011, 04:02:28 »
Anything with an XL engine, clan or inner sphere, is a Glass Cannon...well...except for the Hellbringer..that is more a
Hammer and Eggshell...since glass can take more punishment then a Hellbringer.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I have a whole hangar of 2750-era 'Mechs on a MekWars server that just won't die, XL Engine be damned. It gets even worse for Clan units.

If you're having bad luck with them, that is certainly your experience and not mine. :) I'd take an XLE force against a SFE force any day of the week.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Woodsman
« Reply #29 on: 14 June 2011, 08:22:24 »
If we lived close i would take that challenge...straight BV across the board...any era.
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