Author Topic: Unmapped, lost or misnamed systems and planets (last updated 10 November 2016)  (Read 52699 times)

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Whoa. That's cool info, thanks!
That Sarna article entry for Novaya Zemlya, as well as the entire article on The Sword and the Dagger were written by me, based on my German edition of the book. (It's dirt common in Germany but the English original is a rare and expensive collector's item these days, and I was't prepared to pay 50 bucks for it.)
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Jerome

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
That explains it. I was lucky to have a copy of Sword and Dagger included in a lot of novels I bought from ebay several years back. I probably paid as much as the novel was worth on its own.  :D

Reading the article on Decision at Thunder Rift on sarna, it shows that the same thing happened there with names changed for unidentified planets in the translation, e.g.:
Quote
Drune II (mentioned as the site of a Lyran base; identified with Beta VII in the book's German edition)
The same note could be included in the Sword and the Dagger article, but was there ever an official statement/ruling by the writers about this? Generally I would assume the original English edition to trump any translation in case of conflicting information. So it would be nice to know if the German edition is "wrong", or if it is a valid assumption to equate the planets with different names.

Warriors of Blake

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 81
Not sure if the list is still being updated regularly, but we know now that Brazen Heart is in the St. Ives Commonality, and New Florence is not a FS world.
The 55th (Provisional) WoBM Division: Warriors of Blake

Remember, remember,
The Fifth of December,
The Word of Blake’s fateful first shot!
The Great Houses’ treason
Was Word of Blake’s reason
The whole Inner Sphere went to pot.

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Not sure if the list is still being updated regularly, but we know now that Brazen Heart is in the St. Ives Commonality, and New Florence is not a FS world.
Are you referring to a particular recent source here?

We've known Brazen Heart to be in the St. Ives Commonality pretty much since it was first mentioned. As noted in the list, Bryant seems to fit the bill quite well but ultimately, it's not yet positively proven.

As for New Florence, can you cite a source?
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Warriors of Blake

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 81
Brazen Heart is a moon of Brighton, St. Ive Commonality. Source: Handbook House Liao page 82.

New Florence is not a FS as per, for example, the post 2nd Succession War maps in both HB House Liao (page 41) and HB House Davion (page 60).
From its disappearance but being in a region taken by the FS, I'd say the FS destroyed it during their consistent advances into Liao territory. Probably nuked it or using a biological weapon due to its high value to House Liao, seeing as many CCAF commands were raised or recruited from there (as least per the original Liao sourcebook).
« Last Edit: 05 April 2013, 14:08:54 by Warriors of Blake »
The 55th (Provisional) WoBM Division: Warriors of Blake

Remember, remember,
The Fifth of December,
The Word of Blake’s fateful first shot!
The Great Houses’ treason
Was Word of Blake’s reason
The whole Inner Sphere went to pot.

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
New Florence was a Terran Hegemony world founded sometime between 2271 (HB:HMarik p 16) and 2366 (HB:HLiao p 17) annexed by the Draconis Combine in the First Succession War (HB:HLiao p 31) and then taken by the Capellan Confederation in the Second Succession War (HB:HLiao p 39). It vanished from maps between 2864 and 3025 (HB:HLiao p 40).

New Florence was located between Ronel and Tybalt. I'm not aware of anything having been published that indicates why the world vanished off the maps, but that's not uncommon. The fact that it vanished off maps in the Third Succession War rather than in the First or Second would seem to imply that it was a victim of something other that weapons of mass destruction, given that I can't think of many cases in canon where worlds were attacked with such weapons during that war - the era has been described as seeing lower levels of warfare than the planet-eating destruction of the first two succession wars. Although there's always the possibility that it was hit with WMDs during the First or Second Succession War, and simply became ecologically untenable - we've seen that happen with worlds during the Jihad, like Radstadt. When I wrote the New Florence entry on Sarna, I didn't attribute its vanishing from maps to any particular cause as I'm not aware of one having been cited in canon, so it seemed inappropriate to speculate. If there's something out there that contradicts it, a reference would be handy because I could incorporate that information into Sarna.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

TigerShark

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5042
    • MekWars: Dominion
Heiligendreuz --> Heiligenkreuz
  W W W . M E K W A R S - D O M I N I O N . C O M

  "You will fight to the last soldier, and when you die, I will call upon your damned soul to speak horrible curses at the enemy."
     - Orders of Emperor Stefan Amaris to his troops

Jerome

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Quote
- Dahlgren (?), invaded by Kurita in 3016 (Lyran world?) - Mercenary's Star p.6
Replaced with Harvest in the German edition.

Quote
- Gronden (Mercenary's Star p10), LC world near Verthandi
Replaced with Volders in the German edition.

Quote
- Gallwen (Mercenary's Star p24), LC world one jump from Galatea
No replacement, still called Gallwen in the German edition.

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Minor update: I took the liberty of clarifying that Lysidas is the main continent on Fianna in my BattleCorps story Trial of Faith, so that's settled for good. Not a planet.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
- Bruges (see Bergen)
Bergen and Bruges are visible on maps of the Hanseatic League in both Field Report: Periphery and Wars of Reaving

- Corigan (Star League Sourcebook p49), TC world
Any chance that this actually refers to the Corigan hills region of Deifenbaker (Periphery sourcebook 1st Ed, p. 31)

- Garrote (BattleCorps: "To Serve the Dragon")
Any chance this is a misspelling of the Rim Territories world of Garotte?

- Knutstad (ISP p47)
The location of Knutstad is shown on the map on page 37 of Era Report: 2750.

- Orion Nebula (Explorer Corps), M-class system more than 1600 ly from Terra. Furthest Explorer Corps scientific expedition when carried out in 2982
The Orion Nebula is depicted on the map on page 62 of Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions.

- "Samoyedic Colonies" (MercSuppU p38), hidden 12-planet system in the deep periphery, reportedly past Circinus. Possibly held hostage by WoB to ascertain loyalty of Blanc's Coyotes
The Union of Samoyedic Colonies is depicted on the map on page 50 of Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions.

- Alexandria (The Clans: WoK p72), Tanite World, Clan CC possessions (others: Stacha, Tanis)
- Stacha (see Alexandria)
- Tanis (see Alexandria)
The location of the Tanis system is shown on the map on page 227 of Wars of Reaving.

- Mayadi (LinkNet), Hidden World implied to lie in either Kurita, Davion or Liao space. Others are Obeedah and Taussen.
- Obeedah (see Mayadi)
- Taussen (see Mayadi)
Identified as Tangerz, Sharpe and Versailles by Mr Beas here.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
Kortrijk, Dendermonde, Knokke-Heist, and Ixelles.

From the Wars of Reaving Supplemental, p. 14, these are four resource-rich spinward worlds on the frontier border of the Hanseatic League conquered by the Homeworld clans in 3088 as a beachhead for future ops. These four worlds don't appear on any of the maps published of the Hanseatic League so far.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Kortrijk, Dendermonde, Knokke-Heist, and Ixelles.

From the Wars of Reaving Supplemental, p. 14, these are four resource-rich spinward worlds on the frontier border of the Hanseatic League conquered by the Homeworld clans in 3088 as a beachhead for future ops. These four worlds don't appear on any of the maps published of the Hanseatic League so far.

An error corrected version of the product is available, where those systems have been changed to Stettin, Wismar, Kampen and Novgorod.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Archangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5618
I am curious to see if Ross 248/Terrelibre will ever make it onto the Inner Sphere maps.
Detect evil first, smite second and ask questions later.

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
An error corrected version of the product is available, where those systems have been changed to Stettin, Wismar, Kampen and Novgorod.
Ah, thank you. Time for me to log into Drive-Thru RPG again...

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Updated again, and posting here to bump the thread; I guess otherwise the updates aren't seen.

Most notably I decided to remove Drovahchein II/Erit Star Cluster from the unmapped systems and put them into the "found" list. In Mendrugo's excellent fiction review thread we've narrowed down possible locations for the Erit Star Cluster and the Drovahchein system within it to somewhere within the Dark Nebula, which by all accounts is "largely" but not entirely unmapped and contains a multitude of suns and pulsars. There is simply no other candidate for a star cluster between Tharkad, Trellwan and the Lyran coreward periphery border besides the Dark Nebula, which however is a rather large area of space.
The Erit Cluster is expicitly said be lie in Lyran space, i.e. not in the periphery, and it has officially been stated that all colonized systems in the IS are now shown on maps; if they aren't then the worlds in question are secondary worlds in one of the known systems.
« Last Edit: 18 June 2014, 17:18:33 by Frabby »
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

roosterboy

  • Site Maintenance
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5704
  • J'accuse!
Despite that fact that it hasn't actually been found? That makes sense.

VoltAmpere

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • Sarna Unified Cartography Kit
well, it is re-categorized as Green [instead of Blue], meaning we know it's in a particular location, just that we are not able to pinpoint the exact spot/system.

Xotl

  • Dominus Erratorum
  • BattleTech Developer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11642
  • Professor of Errata
Page 94 of the House Davion book mentions a Battle of Wright, where a Liao offensive was crushed.  Doesn't explicitly say it's a world, but at the same time BT isn't in the habit of naming battles after cities, although it is possible I suppose.  It would have to be a Davion world on the border with the Confederation, and in the Capellan March specifically.
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

reppa

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 182
necroing this because it's one of my favorites, and I have a question or two and a strange thought...

has Trentwash ever been put on a map? if so, which book has it? (thanks in advance)

if not, the phrase "antique weapons of vintage quality" from my post above and the ComStar sourcebook makes me wonder if there's a Chainelane Isles connection -- maybe these weapons somehow got there through trade from Fredotto -- the world known for its precision rifles...

so maybe Trentwash is near the Chainelanes...

apologies if this has been solved elsewhere, and I couldn't find it...

VoltAmpere

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • Sarna Unified Cartography Kit
As far as I know Trentwash has not been shown on a map. It would have been nice if the planet was shown in the coreward deep periphery map in ISP3, but no such luck.

necroing this because it's one of my favorites, and I have a question or two and a strange thought...

has Trentwash ever been put on a map? if so, which book has it? (thanks in advance)

if not, the phrase "antique weapons of vintage quality" from my post above and the ComStar sourcebook makes me wonder if there's a Chainelane Isles connection -- maybe these weapons somehow got there through trade from Fredotto -- the world known for its precision rifles...

so maybe Trentwash is near the Chainelanes...

apologies if this has been solved elsewhere, and I couldn't find it...

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4066
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
necroing this because it's one of my favorites, and I have a question or two and a strange thought...

has Trentwash ever been put on a map? if so, which book has it? (thanks in advance)

if not, the phrase "antique weapons of vintage quality" from my post above and the ComStar sourcebook makes me wonder if there's a Chainelane Isles connection -- maybe these weapons somehow got there through trade from Fredotto -- the world known for its precision rifles...

so maybe Trentwash is near the Chainelanes...

apologies if this has been solved elsewhere, and I couldn't find it...

Whatever or wherever those places are, they sound very cool!
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

FirstStarLord

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Found a new entry in an old source: TRO 3026, 1st edition.

Pg. 16. Law's Flight is moved from Kimball VI to the world of Liezen after defeating Wilson's Hussars in 3021. Described as a boring backwater full of trees and goats.

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Found a new entry in an old source: TRO 3026, 1st edition.

Pg. 16. Law's Flight is moved from Kimball VI to the world of Liezen after defeating Wilson's Hussars in 3021. Described as a boring backwater full of trees and goats.
Liezen is not an unmapped system. It a Kurita system near the Lyran border, next to Kirchbach (and later Wolf Occupation Zone).
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Having finally gotten a good look at the scenarios coming with the old TCI Model Sets, I've added these systems (apocryphal, since the TCI set contents aren't considered canonical):
- Delos VI (in Steiner space; not to be confused with Delos in Davion space or New Delos in Marik space)
- Holloway V
- Kiyev III
- New London
- New Texas
- Valhalla VI
I haven't included the Marik world of Megres V as I assume it's meant to be Megrez.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
Frabby, you can take Lamar and Juniper off the list. Both of them are on maps in First Succession War - not all of the maps, but several of them. There's also some descriptive text to help explain why they fell off maps - Lamar was a military staging location and not much else; Juniper was newly-settled, with just one settlement and not many people, and the DCMS nuked that out of spite.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4242
Frabby, you can take Lamar and Juniper off the list. Both of them are on maps in First Succession War - not all of the maps, but several of them. There's also some descriptive text to help explain why they fell off maps - Lamar was a military staging location and not much else; Juniper was newly-settled, with just one settlement and not many people, and the DCMS nuked that out of spite.
Thanks. I've found Juniper. But I haven't been able to find Lamar on any map in the book.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
Ah, sorry, I was reading from notes. Lamar's depicted on the map on page 18 of Handbook: House Kurita, within the borders of the original Tamar Pact.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

pensiveswetness

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
  • Delete this account, please?
I know this necro~threading but I have a question: In light of the plethora of systems that have been canonized from the 1st & 2nd SW Historical's that have been released in the past year or so, have there been any systems that maybe renamed systems when you compare maps, for example when comparing maps from 2SW Historical and ERA Report 3052 (that is systems that died out during the succession wars, only to be repopulated by the 4th SW and later?)?

Øystein

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
Most of worlds which have been repopulated was Age of War casualties which got repopulated during the Star League era as terraforming technology made them viable again.

Since then probably 2-3 worlds have been repopualted of worlds that was lost in fighting. (Kerensky's Vision is one of them)

VoltAmpere

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • Sarna Unified Cartography Kit
by no means official, but this is what I know of. Please correct me if I have any wrong entries:

  • Tabit, lost during Outer Reaches Rebellion, rediscovered and renamed Tyrfing around the time of the formation of Lyran Commonwealth, only to be lost again prior to start of 2SW. Visited by Interstellar Expeditions (IE) in the 3090's
  • Richmond's World, lost during the fall of the Star League, Rediscovered and renamed to Murrain by IE during 3SW
  • Huanghuadian, lost during 1SW, repopulated and renamed Tincalunas during the Dark Age
  • Shaobuon, lost during 2SW, repopulated and renamed Liu's Memory during the Dark Age
  • Green Stone, lost during 2SW, repopulated and renamed Clayborne during 3SW
  • Helbrent, lost during 2SW, repopulated and renamed Andiron during 3SW
  • Port Vail, lost during 2SW, repopulated and renamed The Rack after War of 3039
  • Dijonne, lost during 2SW, repopulated and renamed Pain after War of 3039
  • Arn, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Jia Tian during the Dark Age
  • Thamel, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Wyeth's Glory during the Dark Age
  • Zhaomaon, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Cluff's Stand during the Dark Age
  • Qualip, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Kerensky's Vision during the Dark Age
  • Ouagadougou, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Silence during the Dark Age
  • Takata, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed New Start during the Dark Age
  • Agmond, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Bornal during the Dark Age
  • Quimper, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Chirac during the Dark Age
  • Sartu, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Bastille during the Dark Age
  • Austerlitz, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Scauld during the Dark Age
  • Edirne, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Brank during the Dark Age
  • Anatolia, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Pillory during the Dark Age
  • Lushun, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Jibbet during the Dark Age
  • Lywick, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Ferreusvirgo during the Dark Age
  • Seven Lands, lost during 3SW, repopulated and renamed Garotte during the Dark Age

not counting the Hidden Five on this list.
« Last Edit: 17 October 2017, 06:19:29 by VoltAmpere »