Fire for Effect: Usage and Deployment of Artillery in Alpha Strike

[UnLimiTeD]

Which in turn dictates it's more or less fights before 2900.
Can a unit have multiple artillery attacks, or is the damage just added, like with regular weapons?

[Scotty]

Excellent question.  The number in the ART specials after the hyphen is the number of separate attacks you can make with it.

[iamfanboy]

Excellent question.  The number in the ART specials after the hyphen is the number of separate attacks you can make with it.

That's one reason why the Naga and the dual-Arrow IV Longbow have such a strong presence on our game tables; they essentially get THREE attacks, one each for the artillery and another that has turned out to be melee more than once. Sending Recons and Strikers after the artillery often leads to them being kicked to death.

The only other canon dual artillery I can think of is the Bakemono, though.

[Scotty]

The Destrier and Gulltoppr get in on the double arty action.  Which is terrifying, because they are huge and ignore damage like you or I ignore rain.

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, there's the Demolisher Arrow IV and the Schiltron Omni-Vehicle.

[Weirdo]

There are plenty of dual-arty vehicles(and some with even more if you're willing to go weird), but to my knowledge, the Naga, O-Bakemono, and a Longbow variant are the only dual-mount 'mech platforms. I suppose the Pillager Anvil should also be mentioned despite its use of snub-Toms versus full artillery, seeing as how snubguns seem to perform a lot more like their larger cousins in AS than they do in TW/TO.

[Scotty]

They are!  Their damage values are lower, with Long Toms equating to Sniper damage, but they actually get lower range penalties when closer.  In standard play, they are strictly better Snipers.

Edit:  Well, no alt ammo.  There's that.

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, if it's got no actual attack value, it's no step up from just having a regular attack (maybe IF) and a second shot.
Though I suppose two Artillery attacks have their own perks.

[Scotty]

I feel like warrants a bump.  O0

[UnLimiTeD]

I get a 404 on that link.
On the risk of recklessly necroing, what was in that thread?
I suppose it's about airborne artillery?

[ConstableBrew]

How effective would an aerospace fighter be as artillery? Can it fire every round and just run circles around the center?

[Weirdo]

Assuming you're taking about Arrow IV, yes.

...actually, you may want to check on that. I know that TacOps lets aeros fire Arrows(ha!) while airborne with no restrictions(no tube arty, though), but I don't know if Alpha Strike went the same way.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I get a 404 on that link.
On the risk of recklessly necroing, what was in that thread?
I suppose it's about airborne artillery?

New link to that thread.

[Scotty]

Assuming you're taking about Arrow IV, yes.

...actually, you may want to check on that. I know that TacOps lets aeros fire Arrows(ha!) while airborne with no restrictions(no tube arty, though), but I don't know if Alpha Strike went the same way.

Technically, no.  Aerospace fighters must move at least one space on the radar map during their movement, which means that if you're in the Inner Ring, you must exit the Inner Ring on your movement (the Inner Ring is only one space).  That means either taking a turn off of bombardment, or venturing into the Central Zone and plotting a path along the ground map.

Interestingly enough, when using Arrow IV as worded the POI doesn't have to be along the fighter's flight path, but merely the distance in terms of flight time is measured from the unit's flight path.  This makes it possible to land multiple Arrow IVs fired from the same aerospace unit land at the same time on the same point (if the roll succeeds) simply by firing once from a long ass way away with a ground map flight path, a second time from the inner ring, and then a third time from a closer flight path to the target.  That thought amuses me greatly.

EDIT: I'm genuinely unsure if an ASF can spot for its own indirect fire, after we got errata saying that ASFs can spot for indirect artillery fire while drawing a flight path along the ground map.  If the ASF has RCN or any one of a number of SPAs, it occurs to me that ASF Arrow IV fire may be more accurate as a solo platform than a ground based unit.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Direct fire is fully capable of targeting a unit, though.  That's what happens when you 'direct fire where the units are'.  Deliberately sidestepping what's obviously an attack at a single target in order to miss the TMM sticks sideways with me.

EDIT: I guess what bugs me is that there's literally no point in using direct fire at a target if you can just shoot it at the ground right next to it for fewer modifiers.  Why even allow it?  Artillery isn't allowed to get the -4 from immobile targets ever, so it doesn't change a thing if you're shooting at an immobile target or the ground underneath it.

Car Wars answered this question for weapons like mineflingers and other weapons that 'fire' what are normally dropped weapons.  If you are placing it within 2" (twice the length of a standard car, or 30' in scale) of a moving vehicle you have to take target modifiers for the car's speed.  So say aim points within an inch have to use target speed mods?

(sorry for the delayed response, I was moving back in July, and missed this article, just noticed it because of the bump)

[ConstableBrew]

Technically, no.  Aerospace fighters must move at least one space on the radar map during their movement, which means that if you're in the Inner Ring, you must exit the Inner Ring on your movement (the Inner Ring is only one space).  That means either taking a turn off of bombardment, or venturing into the Central Zone and plotting a path along the ground map.

Interestingly enough, when using Arrow IV as worded the POI doesn't have to be along the fighter's flight path, but merely the distance in terms of flight time is measured from the unit's flight path.  This makes it possible to land multiple Arrow IVs fired from the same aerospace unit land at the same time on the same point (if the roll succeeds) simply by firing once from a long ass way away with a ground map flight path, a second time from the inner ring, and then a third time from a closer flight path to the target.  That thought amuses me greatly.

That is actually what I was suggesting - just circle around in the second ring, or move in and out of the first and second and every turn just fire the artillery. Or am I missing some rule that limits fire only when the movement path is toward the ground map?

[Scotty]

You can't circle around in the second ring and still fire Arrow IV; you must be either in the Central Zone or the Inner Ring (if you mean the Inner Ring; that whole area is one zone, you must exit it either higher and away from the central zone, or into the central zone on your movement) in order to fire.

The limiting factor is that most Aerospace units (and as far as I'm aware all units mounting Arrow IV that have occupy the radar map) can't move more than one space on the radar map per turn, making it rather difficult to orbit around the Inner Ring every turn.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Multiple Rounds, Simultaneous Impact artillery attacks have been a thing in reality for quite some time.  But BattleTech doesn't really acknowledge them.  Yet I've noticed that the tactic IS indeed possible (to a limited degree) in Alpha Strike!  (advanced rules only; not possible in standard rules)

The way you get one artillery tube to hit twice in the same moment is to exploit (abusive? used as intended? I'm not judging) the homing rounds and TAG.  Under advanced rules, a POI designated at >34" will have a flight time and one closer will not.  Furthermore, once a homing round arrives it can home in on any target designated with TAG within 34" of the POI.

A visual aid easily shows the implication.  The black rectangle shows a standard 48"x72" gaming area.  In the lower left corner is an artillery unit.  The green circle is the 34" radius for flight time thresholding, and the orange circle is within 34" of POI.


So, on round 1 the artillery can fire at the red "X".  On round 2, if you TAG a unit within both the green and orange circles you can hit it with 2 rounds at once.  Gets to be awesomely obnoxious when you have more than one tube of artillery!

Additionally, there's a bonus "exploit" to homing rounds and TAG: you can extend your 34" flight time to cover almost the entire table, even from being tucked away in the corner.  So long as you successfully TAG a target, you can place the POI just inside the green circle and the orange circle will also just barely move, but everything within the orange circle is now ALSO 0 flight time!  You can even move the POI to get the orange circle to cover anywhere on the board except the opposite corner.  And if you set your artillery up a little closer to the center, then everything on the board is 0 flight time for homing rounds!

[Scotty]

Not trying to upstage, but there's a significantly more hilarious way to get time-on-target artillery strikes.  It involves a Fireball XF or a Revenant Celerity X (honestly any of the Celerity Omnis work, too, with 40" MV) and either a Centaur or a Grenadier II battle armor unit.  The Fireball XF is fast enough that the Centaur can fire on one turn, next turn mount up, the Fireball moves as quickly as it can while still dismounting the battle armor, which fire again, then mount up next turn, etc.

With a speed of 48", it's technically possible to end the first turn outside of 90", end the second turn outside of 34" but within 90", and then end the third turn within 34" for single turn flight, letting you land as many as three (!!) artillery rounds on the same POI simultaneously.

[Archer_Wirth]

I'm wanting to experiment with Artillery and was wondering which units I should pick up so I can start to play around with it. Should I do a fighter or a land based unit? I can buy one of each just to try both and wet my beak.

Which units work best in Alpha Strike?

[Weirdo]

Yes.

No, really.

For a better answer, we'd have to know more about your needs, what kind of force your arty will be supporting, and a host of other questions I can't think of right now. There is no 'best' artillery unit, each one has its own strengths and weaknesses.

[Archer_Wirth]

Yes.

No, really.

For a better answer, we'd have to know more about your needs, what kind of force your arty will be supporting, and a host of other questions I can't think of right now. There is no 'best' artillery unit, each one has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I want something with which to support a battlemech/vehicle element if I see them in a bad spot. Also, going to be doing a campaign soon, and I think a lot of the 'mechs protecting my objectives will be in one area essentially waiting for me.

[UnLimiTeD]

Not particularly experienced on that subject, but if you are defending objectives, you ought to bring special ammo, so probably real arty and not snubnose cannons. Further, the decision of whether to use an ASF or ground unit hinges on what your opponent brings, does it not?

[sadlerbw]

Are you looking to actually put a unit on the board, or are you OK with off-board artillery? If it's off-board it almost doesn't matter. The Gun Trailers in TRO:3145 make great off-board artillery if you want an actual record sheet. Or you can just pick a type and number of tubes/launchers and keep it abstract. If you want or need it on the game board, that's a little different. You could still technically use the Gun Trailers, but then they are either stationary, or you need something to tow them. Failing that, there is the Naga/O-Bakemono for a decent Arrow IV mech. There are several tanks that mount Arrow IV as well, and a couple with tube artillery like the Sniper and Thumper. I think the Ajax D is a nice tank for arty support on-board.

[Archer_Wirth]

So it seems to me that the Long Tom and Cruise missile 90 are the most effective. IWM sells this little trailer with what looks like a stationary gun. I was trying to find it's AS card on the MUL and had no luck.

I would prefer something on the board for aesthetic reasons.

Side note: I can just call artillery strikes and not even have a record sheet for who is firing it?

So what does this fire?: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1843

[Weirdo]

So it seems to me that the Long Tom and Cruise missile 90 are the most effective.

They're among the biggest, but that doesn't mean the most effective. Every artillery piece has its advantages and disadvantages.In addition, you need to decide if you want your arty moving by mech, vehicle, infantry, BA, aero, boat, and so forth. Does it need armor to withstand direct fire, or are you confident in your ability to keep it safe? Will it be heavily escorted, or should it carry secondary guns to defend itself? How much ammo does it need, for both combat duration and for ammo variety? These are the kinds of things we need to know before recommending something.

Side note: I can just call artillery strikes and not even have a record sheet for who is firing it?

The Battlemech Manual Beta has rules for buying artillery strikes without buying a whole arty unit, but otherwise, you do need a sheet even for off board units, since they can be hit by counter-battery fire.

So what does this fire?: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1843

That is a J-27 Ordnance Transport, towing a Gun Trailer (Thumper). Alternatively, the trailer can be used by itself to easily represent a field artillery platoon.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

If you're looking to expand your AS experience by including artillery, a Catapult-C3 may be a good option.  You may even already have a mini for it.

If you want to use offboard artillery, I'd just go with cheap cheap cheap. Probably one of the slow moving infantry units... you're still paying full PV for the units even if they're offboard, and everything that goes into PV beyond the artillery piece itself won't lend itself to the outcome of the game since there's no contingency for moving offboard artillery onto the board.

[sadlerbw]

El Cheapo artillery from the MUL:

[OOPS! Had the sniper trailer in here, but it is actually a Sniper Cannon, not the normal artillery piece!]
Thumper, 13PV - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6533/gun-trailer-thumper
Arrow IV, 19PV - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6529/gun-trailer-artilleryaaa

And the minis from IWM - http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=16_44_118&products_id=9109

EDIT: Oh, and if you want to look up artillery units on the MUL yourself, there are a couple specials you can look for by using the "AS Abilities" tab under the "Alpha Strike" item: ARTA is arrow IV, ARTS is Sniper Artillery, ARTT is Thumper Artillery, and ARTLT is Long Tom.

[Archer_Wirth]

El Cheapo artillery from the MUL:

[OOPS! Had the sniper trailer in here, but it is actually a Sniper Cannon, not the normal artillery piece!]
Thumper, 13PV - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6533/gun-trailer-thumper
Arrow IV, 19PV - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6529/gun-trailer-artilleryaaa

And the minis from IWM - http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=16_44_118&products_id=9109

EDIT: Oh, and if you want to look up artillery units on the MUL yourself, there are a couple specials you can look for by using the "AS Abilities" tab under the "Alpha Strike" item: ARTAIS is arrow IV, ARTS is Sniper Artillery, ARTT is Thumper Artillery, and ARTLT is Long Tom.

Very helpful, thank you! You read my mind, this is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you too Tai Dai and Weirdo!

[sadlerbw]

I made one screwup there. The search you want for Arrow IV is actually just ARTA. ARTAIS is specifically the IS version of Arrow IV. The clan version is ARTAC. But in that case the 'C' is OK! So many rules to keep track of!