Author Topic: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!  (Read 162534 times)

The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #510 on: 19 May 2017, 20:51:56 »
I'll admit I had not considered alternate munitions.  Something to think about.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #511 on: 19 May 2017, 23:51:58 »
Half the fun of the Free Worlds League is alternate munitions. The other half is beating people with mechs most players would be ashamed to use. The third half is air support. The fourth half is insane infantry support. The fifth half is the look on your opponent's face as he tries to figure out how many damned halves you have. :)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #512 on: 20 May 2017, 19:36:58 »
I'm honestly more inclined to like the sixth half, which is figuring out which side you're on that afternoon. :D
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #513 on: 21 May 2017, 18:34:44 »
I never let that slow me down ...
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #514 on: 21 May 2017, 19:28:56 »
That sounds like a fairly fun lance. Purely a brawling team, but fast enough for the era to DO that just fine. I'll be curious if you're able to get much in the way of results with the Grand Titan; it's a chassis I've always wanted to like, but I feel as though all its canon configs are bad.

The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #515 on: 21 May 2017, 20:54:26 »
I've only ever had good experiences with it.  Just remember it a brawler and don't be afraid to dump ammo if necessary.
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #516 on: 21 May 2017, 21:21:18 »
Hm. What sort of units do you end up putting it up against? I've found the N10M struggles to kill what it can catch, and that there's a lot it can't catch. The N11M fares a little better in this regard, but even it has major problems.

Kojak

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #517 on: 22 May 2017, 01:13:22 »
A little random, but...does anyone else here enjoy using full lances of Locust 6Ms to just run around razzing your opponent? I notice that pretty much any time I'm using a Leaguer force these days, I try to work in at least two (and preferably four) of them in.


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The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #518 on: 22 May 2017, 08:27:13 »
Hm. What sort of units do you end up putting it up against? I've found the N10M struggles to kill what it can catch, and that there's a lot it can't catch. The N11M fares a little better in this regard, but even it has major problems.

In the past, it was mostly Spheroid heavies.  I distinctly remember a Falconer that gave me trouble, but I had some LRMs boats that put paid to that guy, but other than that?  The Lyran player I used to face had a penchant for Warhammers.

The Grand Titan was part of my heavy lance so I actually didn't have a lot of assault 'Mechs facing off with him during that campaign run.  I can see your point though, because he doesn't have any single big knock-out gun like a Gauss or peepers.  We'll see how this game goes.  There's three of us playing that I know of and one of them is a Clanner, so I think it's going to be one giant free-for-all, which will make for some interesting tactical scenarios.  I'll let you know how it goes.
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #519 on: 22 May 2017, 19:38:24 »
Re: Locust Swarm - Can't say I've tried it. Sounds like it would be MWO come to life in some ways, though. Could be a lot of fun. That a clan is one of our neighbors gives me pause though; light-swarming seems like it wouldn't be as effective these days due to at least one of our common matchups having lots of clan Large Pulse Lasers?

Re: Grand Titan and 'knockout weapons', that's actually not my critique. My issue is the low weapons range combined with modest speed; in post 3067 play it's real hard for that thing to get in close to do its job. This isn't as big a problem in the era you're playing this thing in though, and I hope it does well for you. The Grand Titan is a machine I've always wanted to love, just haven't been able to make any of its configs work well for me. I find the Anvil 3R does brawling (and ECM, if we're comparing it to the Titan N11M) better, numerous other units do the 'mix of weapons for general purpose fighting' thing better, and that a Kopis team makes a better bodyguard unit for long-range attackers.

So if you've found some ways to make the unit legitimately do well, I want to hear about them and be proven wrong!

Edit: To elaborate on the Grand Titan and 'knockout weapons', I'm actually okay with units that operate on the 'multiple amounts of medium-damage weapons' principle. The Juliano with its multi-ERLL loadout for example. I'm totally okay with that, because it does a meaningful amount of damage.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2017, 19:41:19 by GespenstM »

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #520 on: 22 May 2017, 19:59:20 »
Re: Locust Swarm - Can't say I've tried it. Sounds like it would be MWO come to life in some ways, though. Could be a lot of fun. That a clan is one of our neighbors gives me pause though; light-swarming seems like it wouldn't be as effective these days due to at least one of our common matchups having lots of clan Large Pulse Lasers?

The solution is the same way you keep Hammers, Falcon Hawks, and Lokis alive: Make sure the guys with the LPLs find it prudent to point them at a far more pressing matter, like the T-bolt in their face.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #521 on: 22 May 2017, 21:17:41 »
The solution is the same way you keep Hammers, Falcon Hawks, and Lokis alive: Make sure the guys with the LPLs find it prudent to point them at a far more pressing matter, like the T-bolt in their face.

That only work for me if I'm not driving the T-Bolt.  If I am, it's a single turn distraction.  :'(

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #522 on: 22 May 2017, 21:48:45 »
Then use a Grand Titan. One thing about the -10M, people are highly motivated to kill it before it gets close...which means it can soak hits while your more fragile stuff gets into mischief. :)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #523 on: 22 May 2017, 22:13:35 »
-13M soaks more hits ;)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #524 on: 22 May 2017, 22:19:57 »
Slower, methinks. :)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #525 on: 22 May 2017, 22:20:32 »
That could work.  I'm not saying the T-bolt is too fragile for my playstyle....just the Murphy *loves* to punish me when I drive one.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #526 on: 22 May 2017, 23:32:51 »
Quasimodos could be fun for that.  Or Neanderthals.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #527 on: 23 May 2017, 06:57:52 »
I've yet to actually use the Neanderthal. Can anyone who doesn't have a raging hate-on for OS weapons comment on the utility of the M-Pods?

(That wasn't pointed at anyone in particular, I just know that there are plenty of folks that automatically dismiss any one-shot gear, and thus would be unable to be objective)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #528 on: 23 May 2017, 09:08:58 »
I've yet to actually use the Neanderthal. Can anyone who doesn't have a raging hate-on for OS weapons comment on the utility of the M-Pods?

(That wasn't pointed at anyone in particular, I just know that there are plenty of folks that automatically dismiss any one-shot gear, and thus would be unable to be objective)
Sure. A quick rules overview for those unfamiliar with MPODs. One-shot weapons, they work like LB-X clusters, single point clusters and the -1 to-hit, with a range of 1/2/3. At short range, it rolls on the 15 table, at medium the 10 table, and at long the 5 table. If an unused MPOD takes a crit, it explodes for 5 points of damage.

In the case of the Neanderthal, I think they're a good use. By having 3 of them you gain a fair amount of flexibility for the cost of 3 tons and 3 crits. The Neanderthal only has big hole punching weapons, the snubbies with capacitors, and the hatchet. In the right situations you can deal out a pair of 15-point PPC hits (with no minimum range) and a 32-point hatchet (or kick) attack. Great for tearing big holes in an enemy's armor, but not so good for finishing it off. With the MPODs, in this case 3 of them, you get 3 chances at 15 LB-X pellets or up to a single shot of 45 pellets. For me, I'd save them for up close, with at least good if not great to-hit numbers. Think of it as the button to push when the enemy just won't die, despite being opened up in many places.

I can see why they were developed and used in Solaris first. In a duel, it's a great add-on for 'Mechs that go for the showy, big honkin' guns and leave off the cluster weapons for those crippling shots to finish the enemy faster. In a Marik force, with allies with lots of LRMs I think it's not as necessary, but it's a nice backup to have, nicer I think than the SRM 4 and ton of ammo it could carry instead.
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #529 on: 24 May 2017, 16:42:52 »
Doesn't sound like too bad a use of one ton and one crit. I can usually think of better ways, but that's an option I'm glad exists; there have to be designs that make good use of it.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #530 on: 24 May 2017, 20:34:44 »
Running a Marik Lance in an upcoming battle, was wondering what's better?

Albatross 3Ur or 4U?

Lancemates are a Buccaneer-3R, a Thug-11Eb and a Archer-8M.

BV is only 5 apart.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #531 on: 24 May 2017, 21:44:46 »
I generally like the 4U better due to far superior armor coverage

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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #532 on: 24 May 2017, 22:11:56 »
ALB-3U solves more problems than -4U does though. You get an anti-aircraft weapon and crit-seeker in the -3U. Also better long-range attacks.

That said, this lance lacks a durable centerpiece unit. I reluctantly recommend the -4U.

Colt Ward

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #533 on: 25 May 2017, 07:37:57 »
Huh?  The Thug is pretty durable though its also long range support in those ERPPCs.

The -3U would have had that LPL to keep speedsters off your back, but the -3Ur gives it up for the Snub . . . so I think the -4U might work better because it can also hang further back behind your Archer & Thug to protect their back but still hit distant targets with the Light Guass and LRMs if it pushes in.

I think your WoB or WoB-aligned force can hold its own.
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The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #534 on: 25 May 2017, 08:38:24 »
I vote the -3Ur.  The gauss rifle will be a nice addition to help the Thug's peeper open holes for crit seeking.  You just have to be careful with it because its fragile for a 95-tonner.
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GespenstM

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #535 on: 27 May 2017, 01:48:03 »
Huh?  The Thug is pretty durable though its also long range support in those ERPPCs.

It's durable, but not something I'd send into the center of the battle.

Admittedly, this is possibly a quirk of my playstyle. I generally seek out one 4/6/* moving long range attacker to be my backfield, something that can project firepower anywhere but keep pace with the rest of the team. AWS-9M, Thug, etc. work.

Then I want something that works the center mid-field. An Anvil or similar is usually what this involves.

Then I have two faster units off to the sides, working to get behind whatever the back-field and mid-field can keep busy. If you're not playing like this, then the reasons I suggest the ALB-4U make far less sense. Not playing like me is, of note, entirely sensible and a-ok; it's just this tendency influences what I pick and why I do it. If someone wishes to instead run the Thug as their main field unit, then the calls for an ALB-3U or ALB-3Ur are far smarter.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #536 on: 27 May 2017, 07:33:59 »
Technically, the Archer is.

Main mission is to lay the hurt where it's suppose to be. I just wanted to provide support fire from others.

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The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #537 on: 28 May 2017, 19:27:46 »
I forgot to take pictures for you guys, but here's the low down on my game.  It was going to be my Marik Militia and another guy's Sword of Light versus Smoke Jaguars, but the Sworder had a medical emergency and couldn't make it.  So it was my aforementioned lance versus a Dire Wolf A, Timber Wolf A, and Mad Dog C, all with 4/5 MechWarriors.  We played on 2x2 mapsheets which had more woods and hills than my opponent would have liked.

We started off on the long sides of the board -- my choice, because he outranged me like crazy -- and I played super-duper cagey the first, like, three or four turns.  There was hardly any weapons fire because after he declared his dueling targets, I did my best to ensure that his 'Mechs couldn't shoot at their assigned targets (and he played zellbrigen correctly!) either due to too many intervening woods hexes or just making sure the to-hit numbers were too high.

He had the Mad Dog on my left flank, the Dire Wolf in the center, and the Timber Wolf on my right.  I sent  my Anvil and Grand Titan up the left, the Wolverine on the center-right, and the Locust did an end-run around the extreme right flank.  When I committed, I hit him as hard as I could.  The Anvil ran down the Mad Dog; thanks to my pulse bonus, I tore him up while he was only able to wing me a couple of times with gauss slugs.  He kept giving ground trying to keep the range open but I eventually ran him down and got into his minimum range.

In the center, I diverted the Grand Titan and Wolverine to the middle.  He had pushed the Timber Wolf forward, moving off of a perch and across a river to start drawing line of sight to the Titan, which put it in the perfect position for me to bring all three of my other 'Mechs down on him in a circle.  The Timber Wolf got pummeled over the next three turns -- including suffering a couple of kicks from my brave (read: crazy) Wolverine pilot -- and eventually took a couple of engine hits that forced him to drop a PPC from his firing plan.  In the meantime, the Wolverine did take a few errant pulse laser shots from the Dire Wolf, but the Grand Titan got the worst of both OmniMechs' anger.

By this time, the Locust had eaten a few good die rolls' worth of pulse lasers and lacked both arms, reduced to just running around its medium laser and being an annoying initiative sink.  The duel between the Anvil and Mad Dog had moved into my opponent's backfield along his home table edge and in a moment of clarity, I realized that I prefect shots at the stationary, overheating, torn-to-pieces Timber Wolf in his back with the Anvil.  The precise application of pulse lasers to the rear armor (eaten open by the Wolverine's jumping back strike antics) resulted in a third engine hit and the only confirmed kill of the game.

Moving into the double-digit turns (we played, I think, 11 or 12 turns in about six hours), the Anvil turned back to his fist-fight with the Mad Dog and promptly ripped off one side torso and opened up the chest armor; in return, the Mad Dog managed to land a couple solid hits and disabled one of my pulse lasers.  The Grand Titan by this time was completely stripped off its left and center torso armor and was pretty banged up having fallen twice, but combined fire from it, the Wolverine, and a contributing five-pointer from the Locust to put the damage total over forty for a +2 to the resulting piloting check put the Dire Wolf on its butt.

The situation at this point was: Grand Titan: functioning, but not for long; Anvil: functioning, but hurt; Wolverine: short a ton of armor, but still alive and kicking; Locust: armless but still hard as hell to hit; Timber Wolf: dead; Mad Dog: one, maybe two more rounds before it was toast; Dire Wolf: armor torn up, but still 100% operational.  However, the Dire Wolf was effectively surrounded and though it would take a long time to die, it still would have died (especially with the Wolverine tied to its rear).  We decided to call it as a House Marik victory!

MVP of the game?  My opponent's dice.  The turn I committed hard to killing the Timber Wolf, he whiffed hard on a lot of his attack rolls.  I managed to keep his to-hits above 7 most of the game, but even on 6s and 7s that turn he whiffed 'em.  That gave me an extra turn to eat his lunch at point-blank range.  Runner-up goes to the Anvil, which kept the Mad Dog tied up all by his lonesome the entire game; keeping those gauss rifles shooting on 8s and 9s at point-blank range instead of pouring slugs into my Grand Titan on 6s and 7s was key to it surviving long enough to help savage the Timber Wolf.  Honorable mention goes to the Titan's LRM-15, which landed a full salvo on-target two turns running (thanks to the Artemis FCS).

All in all, it was a good game.  My opponent took my superior maneuvering and his bad dice in stride with a rueful smile.  I felt like it was one of my best games in a very long time due to how well I positioned my units, but in the future I need to pull my long-range guns back out of the box.  Being forced to close under that kind of long-range fire was harrowing despite my general maneuverability advantage and I think a few light gauss rifles would have helped off-set the issue a little!
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #538 on: 28 May 2017, 20:24:17 »
Well done, seems like a comparable lyran force wouldn't have done half as well as you did; above-average speed is a big help in games like that!

Light Gauss might have helped, but I'm not sure what you could give up and still have a coherent team to allow it in. The Grand Titan is about the only negotiable unit that formation had. The ALB-4U might have sufficed in its position, but not much else comes to mind.

I'm curious, how did the Grand Titan perform?


The Eagle

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #539 on: 28 May 2017, 22:08:05 »
Considering it was fighting a 'Mech 25 tons lighter than itself?  Decently.  The armor held long enough, the speed combined with intelligent maneuvers helped to throw off the enemy's aim, and the LPLs and LRMs did good damage over time.  Once I got in close and started using the close-in weapons, I really felt the bite of its fairly low dissipation system, though.  I really feel like it needs more heat sinks, especially when my opponents were sinking 30- or 40-some odd heat each turn.  I realize there's a big tech gap there, but I didn't think I'd feel that constrained.  I might have gone crazier and rode the heat scale up a little bit if not for that damn Dire Wolf.  I couldn't afford the speed loss.
RIP Dan Schulz, 09 November 2009.  May the Albatross ever fly high.

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