Author Topic: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.  (Read 14816 times)

mrbooth

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Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« on: 21 November 2016, 21:38:19 »
So I have very little experience with these but my in my campaign my group just acquired a large supply of them and I was wondering what other have found there best use to be.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #1 on: 21 November 2016, 21:45:15 »
They're deadly against infantry, great against vehicles, and annoyingly effective against 'Mechs.

They do a base 10 point damage to medium ranges - almost as good as a PPC at base. Against vehicles and infantry, including BA, they do an additional 2D6 damage. Against 'Mechs, it's 1D6 heat - which in the modern eras, with people finely-tuning their heat levels, can cause no little annoyance to the target.

Work best on brawlers, or speedsters that can choose the range and get behind.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #2 on: 21 November 2016, 22:30:27 »
They make for great refit options on 'Mechs with AC/10s, with the same damage, range, and ammo per ton, while saving 6 tons (some which could go to heat sinks if necessary), without the risk of ammo cook offs.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #3 on: 22 November 2016, 14:03:34 »
Plasma rifles are a brutally effective counter to TSM that doesn't lose utility vs everything else.  They're great.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #4 on: 22 November 2016, 15:58:07 »
From what I have heard, yet to play a Aero battle in that time frame, they are also murder as a air to air weapon for much the same reason against mechs . . . except heat is MORE of a bane to pilots.

They also work well as long distance smoke starters.  While the flamer is usually 3 hexes, the plasma rifle reaches out to that 15 hexes.

Its one of the few weapons that fails next to its Clan counterpart IMO.

I wish we had gotten a Myrmidon with a Plasma Rifle.

I love them, and I squeeze them in where I can . . . they are sort of a must for forces I create, just like I want to have LB-10X on my side.
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mrbooth

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #5 on: 22 November 2016, 16:27:43 »
So they do really bad things to vehicles and infantry, have to watch it then on of the players wants to put two of them on a Marauder 5M in place of the LPL not sure if it works yet crit wise but it will commit war crimes on conventional forces.   

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #6 on: 22 November 2016, 16:31:00 »
So they do really bad things to vehicles and infantry, have to watch it then on of the players wants to put two of them on a Marauder 5M in place of the LPL not sure if it works yet crit wise but it will commit war crimes on conventional forces.

All around bastard of a weapon. The short range is really the only issue it has... and the high Battle Value cost.

Works as replacement for a LPL but be aware you can only fit a ton of ammo for the weight unless you are making other changes. Also, PR+ammo requires 3 slots compared to the LPL's 2 slots.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #7 on: 22 November 2016, 17:18:48 »
...put two of them on a Marauder 5M in place of the LPL ...

I dunno what on earth you did to the poor guy to make him hate conventional forces that much, but you need to remember every detail of it for retelling at conventions. Events that inspire that much hate have to be worth at least two or three beers to tell...
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Empyrus

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #8 on: 22 November 2016, 17:26:10 »
This inspires me... results soon on the custom units section.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #9 on: 22 November 2016, 17:46:31 »
I dunno what on earth you did to the poor guy to make him hate conventional forces that much, but you need to remember every detail of it for retelling at conventions. Events that inspire that much hate have to be worth at least two or three beers to tell...

Do you really have to have a reason to mount two Plasma Rifles?  I'd mount three or four if I had any excuse whatsoever.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #10 on: 22 November 2016, 17:47:20 »
*sigh*  I have wanted a Saladin or SM1 Tank Destroyer with fusion engines to mount one . . . or two, just for the fun.
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mrbooth

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #11 on: 22 November 2016, 19:11:58 »
I dunno what on earth you did to the poor guy to make him hate conventional forces that much, but you need to remember every detail of it for retelling at conventions. Events that inspire that much hate have to be worth at least two or three beers to tell...

In my Defense it was one of the Hellbille stories that gave me the idea. But the short story is city fight double blind rules and he walked into 2 Devastator  heavy tanks at about 4 hexs. 3 AC 20 and several inferno srms later his Caesar 3R is missing it's right torso, is on fire and his pilot took an nap from falling and the gauss rifle exploding.  Yeah since then tanks die first for him.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #12 on: 22 November 2016, 20:46:26 »
If I recall correctly, aren't the Capellans the ones that came up with the Plasma Rifle?

I seem to recall having some ideas when the weapon came out that involved pairing the Plasma  Rifle with Stealth Armor and using the combo on older Mech designs. One that sticks out in my head was a reimagining of the "Hothammer" version of the Warhammer used by House Liao, dropping the PPCs and putting in the Stealth/Plasma Rifle combo...

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #13 on: 22 November 2016, 21:15:38 »
Yeah, Plasma Rifles are a Capellan invention.

But they're not a great choice with Stealth Armor- the range and heat really don't play well together.
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Empyrus

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #14 on: 22 November 2016, 21:24:49 »
Yeah, Plasma Rifles are a Capellan invention.

But they're not a great choice with Stealth Armor- the range and heat really don't play well together.

Never stopped the Cappies from combining them. The Marauder 6L comes to mind.
Stealth Armor is not just for snipers. It works as a method of mitigating damage while approaching the enemy until at good range, when you turn the thing off to get rid of the heat penalty. Not as intuitive or easy, but effective when correctly executed.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2016, 21:35:57 »
You can do that, but the Warhammer isn't really quick enough to make effective use of it very easily.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #16 on: 22 November 2016, 22:14:59 »
Mmmmmm Emperor 8L, Marauder 6L, Vindicator 6L, and Phoenix Hawk 5L. The I hate you lance.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #17 on: 23 November 2016, 01:34:35 »
You can do that, but the Warhammer isn't really quick enough to make effective use of it very easily.

The Marauder and Emperor don't exactly have world class sprinting speed either... :)

I just figured that with the Capellans desire to apply Stealth Armor and/or Plasma Rifles to everything, that I can see them turning the Warhammer into a walking war crime...
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #18 on: 23 November 2016, 01:54:43 »
Mmmmmm Emperor 8L, Marauder 6L, Vindicator 6L, and Phoenix Hawk 5L. The I hate you lance.

I think the only suitable response to someone putting that down on the board is a lance of Gulltoppr Primes.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #19 on: 23 November 2016, 03:49:31 »
We need a Annihilator with 4X Plasma Rifles.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #20 on: 23 November 2016, 08:27:17 »
In my Defense it was one of the Hellbille stories that gave me the idea. But the short story is city fight double blind rules and he walked into 2 Devastator  heavy tanks at about 4 hexs. 3 AC 20 and several inferno srms later his Caesar 3R is missing it's right torso, is on fire and his pilot took an nap from falling and the gauss rifle exploding.  Yeah since then tanks die first for him.

That one's not me, actually, though I've walked into my share of ambushes before. (I hate the Caesar, so I'd have been content to dispose of one to spring a trap!).

Actually for me, infantry die first. After some bad experiences, I do not suffer the crunchies to live- armored or not. For proof, two of the designs I've sneaked into the books over the years are the Men Shen E and Shoden (LBX)- go take a look and see how I feel about infantry. ;)

But. Yeah. Plasma, let's talk the rifle itself. If you like PPCs, you'll like the plasma rifle. You lose the ammo-less perk (though at least it's inert ammo and won't explode), you gain the ability to do extra heat or damage depending on what you're shooting. That's a pretty nifty trade-off actually, as long as you bring a couple of tons of ammo. It's a  nasty customer- one is concerning, two on a unit is just mean. (Attempts to mount four on an Annihilator, by the way, resulted in a very overheated but fun walking war-crime.)

That said, I actually prefer the Clan flavor. That's not a popular opinion amongst many players- after all, the cannon doesn't do damage to Mechs at all, so who cares? Well shut the hell up, hypothetical person I'm arguing with, and listen: At half of the weight of the rifle, I'm doing 2D6 heat. Two plasma cannons means 4D6 heat to a Mech, rather than 10 damage and 1D6 heat, and depending on the Mech that can be crippling. (Note that there's a cap on how much heat you can cause per turn, but if you're hitting that cap you still are having a pretty great day at the gaming table). Call that somewhere around 12-14 heat added to a target on average with a salvo- not many Mechs appreciate that kind of heat muckery.

BUT. It isn't Mechs that make the plasma cannon (or even the rifle) fun to beat on things with. It's EVERYTHING ELSE. Infantry, vehicles, structures (oh man, STRUCTURES), if it doesn't track heat you should totally smack it with plasma cannons. 3D6 damage PER CANNON- from a three ton weapon (plus ammo). That is fantastic stuff, people. Slapping infantry- even the toughest battle armor- with wads of burning styrofoam and watching them run around waving their little arms until they expire, that's as fun as Battletech gets. NOTE: Do not try this against Golems or Salamanders, as they seem to be more confused by the burning wads than anything. But I have put an Alacorn down with a Warhawk packing three plasmas, and it was very therapeutic to watch the poor thing disintegrate.

There are weapons in Battletech from recent years I'm not a big fan of. The MML is a good weapon, but bland- it removes a lot of the tough choices from the game when you can just always pick the right missile for the job. I'm not a fan of the LAC, nor the chemical laser. But plasma? I adore plasma weapons. You should too, because the only way I can figure someone doesn't absolutely adore plasma is if you've never used it before. So... do that.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #21 on: 23 November 2016, 13:20:30 »
We need a Annihilator with 4X Plasma Rifles.
For a simple refit, take an ANH-1A, strip the weapons, add 4xPR and 8x tons of ammo, add heat sinks till there's no more room, and then armor the cockpit. Of course that keeps it slow and lightly armored, but there's a lot more fun versions you can make, without even needing to go the Clan-tech route.


As Hellbie said, the Clan Plasma Cannon is a great weapon, but in my mind it's really a different weapon from the Plasma Rifle. The Plasma Rifle is your PPC/AC-10 variant with some special powers. The Plasma Cannon is more like a missile rack loaded only with infernos, so-so against 'Mechs and Aeros, but great against everything else.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #22 on: 23 November 2016, 13:35:14 »
I like seeing Plasma Cannons mounted in threes on bigger cavalry 'Mechs in Clan space, then following it up with a big ballistic gun like an Ultra-10, LB-20X, or Gauss.  Plasmas against 'Mechs and Aeros generate large bubbles of 'don't go there' due to the nature of most Clan designs when considering heat and the potential immediate fatality of failing a piloting role as a fighter, and the threat of a big slug thrower for that massive number of clusters of five is a sincere one.  I'm particularly partial to the Ultra-10, since the range bands match and twin 10-point thwacks is going to hurt.

...the fact that you can fit that with 3 tons Ultra ammo and 6 tons Plasma ammo (plus CASE II) on a Hellbringer is purely coincidental. ;D
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #23 on: 23 November 2016, 16:31:54 »
Regarding ASF and plasma cannons.  Don't forget, your first Random Movement roll is at 5 heat.  Make those mud-movers EARN their kills on your groundpounders!

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #24 on: 23 November 2016, 20:07:16 »
We need a Annihilator with 4X Plasma Rifles.

If you don't mind being WoB during the Jihad, the Fafnir -5WB gets there. Anyone else after the Jihad though, no bueno as MUL has it extinct going forward.
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #25 on: 23 November 2016, 20:21:52 »
If you don't mind being WoB during the Jihad, the Fafnir -5WB gets there. Anyone else after the Jihad though, no bueno as MUL has it extinct going forward.
Also has way too little ammo for an assault 'Mech.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #26 on: 23 November 2016, 21:51:40 »
I think you can reload it with compressed ash. And molten electronics.

I believe a plasma rifle is a good fit on any platform, because it is a good fit against any opponent. Only the limited range may cause problems.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2016, 06:59:37 by UnLimiTeD »
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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #27 on: 24 November 2016, 06:10:43 »
Against modern DHS mechs I would say the PR is slightly edged out by the regular PPC, ammo dependant, no minimum range, shorter range and small heat hit in my experience balances in the PPCs favour, if only by a smidge.

Against any other target, take the PR.  Combat vehicles? 10+2d6 damage split into 5 point clusters means a quick immobilizing and that armour isn't going to last long.  Battle Armour?  Less overkill, much more kill.  Infantry, the poor poor infantry, wiping out whole platoons from far beyond their range just doesn't seem fair. 

My favorite platform for them is as the turreted main gun on a fusion powered combat vee.  Like a Myrmidon, it's just competent against all comers

They're quite pricey in cbills and in bv, so it can depend on how the game is being balanced and what targets can be expected. 

 

mrbooth

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #28 on: 27 November 2016, 13:29:59 »
Has any one used the Blacknight 4D I have never used the shield before but with a clan error ppc and dual plasma rifles it looks like a beast.

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Re: Talk about the Plasma Rifle.
« Reply #29 on: 27 November 2016, 14:31:50 »
I agree with that the Clan ER PPC is an error. It is way too good a weapon.  O0


Joking aside, the Black Knight: It is powerful, runs a bit hot easily but then it doesn't have anything explosive so it is not a big problem, and given the 'Mech's drawbacks, one probably must push the heat. As long as the Shield is there (it cannot be voluntarily ejected!), the 'Mech moves at 3/5... Of course, properly used, the Shield makes the 'Mech nigh invulnerable.
It is like a MMORPG tank.

EDIT Corrected text.
« Last Edit: 27 November 2016, 14:58:18 by Empyrus »