Naval Pictures III: Splice The Main Brace!

[JadeHellbringer]

I also recall reading that at Cape Matapan the RN carrier present apparently had to be ordered out of the line of battle after her Captain apparently wanted to engage the Italian fleet with guns and join in the 'fun' that the battleships were having with the Italian cruisers they surprised.

\

That's partly true. You don't want your carrier (HMS Formidable, in this case) in the battle line obviously, but she detached with light escort well before the shooting started that night. Knowing it was a night engagement, the carrier had no point being there anyway- can't provide scout/spotter planes, can't provide meaningful gun support, incredibly valuable, back it off in case a destroyer gets a lucky torpedo shot off. As far as Adm. Cunningham knew (remember, we look back knowing things he didn't), the Italian ships would reach the cover of home before dawn, so his best option was to hammer them in the middle of the night. The damaged cruiser Pola ensured that was impossible, but again the British didn't know how bad things were for her.

Had things gone badly for the British- the Italians get off torpedoes and hurt the RN's ships somehow (again, they with an unclear picture of the state of the Italian force), or the Italians escape, Formidable would have been vital in the morning. No way you risk her getting up into a gunfight in any situation- so Cunningham wasn't so much itching for a gunfight and backed his carrier off as he had few other options and used common sense. Any way you look at it, it's hard to imagine a more lopsided engagement. It doesn't get the attention, but it's right up in that regard with Tsushima and Hampton Roads.

[Feenix74]

The most deadly Australian military vessel in WWII with 7 confirmed Japanese ships sunk (totalling 40,000 tons) during Operation JAYWICK on the night of 26 Sep 1943:

MV Krait


To give you a comparison, USS Barb (SS-220) the submarine that sank the most tonnage by Japanese Records is officially credited with sinking 17 enemy vessels totalling 96,000 tons during the seven Pacific war patrols between March 1944-August 1945.

The Z Special Unit sailors/soldiers who crewed the MV Krait were the forerunners to the Australian SAS Regiment and 1 Commando Regiment special forces.

[Fat Guy]

China's first indigenously built aircraft carrier, the Type 001A will launch "soon".



For all intents and purposes, it's just a home grown Kuznetsov-class very similar to the Liaoning.

I wonder if it has better engines? 

[marauder648]

Well baring in mind that the Kuz can't launch her SU's with a decent warload or even a full fuel load as their flight deck isn't long enough and they don't have catapults needed to give a fully loaded plane that extra kick..I wonder if this 001A will have catapults, because if its just a Repeat Kuz with MADE IN CHINA stamped on it, then its gonna be a bit of a turd to be polite.

[wantec]

China's first indigenously built aircraft carrier, the Type 001A will launch "soon".



For all intents and purposes, it's just a home grown Kuznetsov-class very similar to the Liaoning.

I wonder if it has better engines?

I'm pretty sure when the Chinese got the Liaoning they overhauled it and made it better. The Type 001A is essentially a proof of concept (that they can build a carrier period) with a few smaller mods along the way.

Well baring in mind that the Kuz can't launch her SU's with a decent warload or even a full fuel load as their flight deck isn't long enough and they don't have catapults needed to give a fully loaded plane that extra kick..I wonder if this 001A will have catapults, because if its just a Repeat Kuz with MADE IN CHINA stamped on it, then its gonna be a bit of a turd to be polite.

The next one is supposed to have catapults of some kind, most likely steam-powered.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/6726/chinas-carrier-ties-up-at-specially-built-giant-dock-in-s-china-sea?iid=sr-link1

[worktroll]

Depends on what they're going to fly off it.

Is it just my memory, or did the Smokey K only fly off Su-27s? DO they still have their Mig-29s on board? I imagine they'd launch with a more useful warload.

[wantec]

Depends on what they're going to fly off it.

Is it just my memory, or did the Smokey K only fly off Su-27s? DO they still have their Mig-29s on board? I imagine they'd launch with a more useful warload.

It flies the Su-33 (carrier version of the Su-27), and Mig-29K

[JadeHellbringer]

Note that whatever Liaoning is packing for engines- refurbished original gear or replacement- she doesn't leave much exhaust compared to her sister. The Chinese navy definitely upgraded their ship upon acquisition.

[kato]

Or they're just not burning old tires ...

[glitterboy2098]

Note that whatever Liaoning is packing for engines- refurbished original gear or replacement- she doesn't leave much exhaust compared to her sister. The Chinese navy definitely upgraded their ship upon acquisition.

honestly i wonder how much of the original ship actually still remained after that refit. given how extensive it appears to have been inside as well as out, i suspect that the only thing left is the metal of the lower hull.


on an unrelated note, i have found the most awesomely unfortunate ship name ever: HMS Gay Viking

[Weirdo]

I think it may be tied with Dat Assawari. 8)

[marauder648]

[PsihoKekec]

The Z Special Unit sailors/soldiers who crewed the MV Krait were the forerunners to the Australian SAS Regiment and 1 Commando Regiment special forces.

And they all got killed on their second mission, albeit most of them could be saved if the higher ups took their a rescue mission seriously. Three of them clashed with Japanese company killing or wounding 70, before being killed.

[Feenix74]

Only five of the 23 Operation RIMAU commandos (including the mission commander Lieutenant Colonel Ivan Lyon) were part of the Operation JAYWICK crew.

[Sabelkatten]

on an unrelated note, i have found the most awesomely unfortunate ship name ever: HMS Gay Viking

I don't know what's so strange about that? Vikings weren't angry all the time, after all.

A demonstration on how quickly languages change. "Gay" went from meaning "happy" in the 70s to meaning "homosexual male" in the 90s...

At least its not Swedish. "Midday meal" nowadays means "evening meal"... ::)

[marauder648]

I did once see this amusing post about a 'war' going on in the RN, obviously a fake one but it was between two chaps who worked in the name choosing department of the Admiralty.

One wanted the RN to have scary, imposing names and chose things like Fearless Conqueror and Thunderer.
The other chap felt the RN wanted the ships to have nicer, more open and appealing names and chose things like Daffodil Pansy and Delight
The angry chap, incensed by this fired off the names Glorious Terror and Onslaught. So the other gentleman replied with Cheerful Dainty and Spanker.  And so it goes on :p

[Wrangler]

Sounds like its one guy naming those ships. Once before they drank something with caffeine and then after. The old helter skelter effort.  ;D

[marauder648]

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum you have this horrific spectacle

http://imgur.com/gallery/en25dnv

[JadeHellbringer]

That film has always fascinated me. Some of those sections flying hundreds of feet into the air probably weigh more than my house. What amazing power from that blast... hard to believe anyone survived.

[Kidd]

I leave yall to contemplate this, um, "inspired" bit of Photoshoppery, as the PLAN prepare to commission their 1st homegrown carrier...

[Wrangler]

I knew they were building ,but she waaaay further along than i thought.  How long have they been working on her? 2015?
Im little surprised they modeled her precisely Liaoning.  I thought they were going to do more western style ship.

The Wikipedia entry mentions the ship's name is Shandong.

[Feenix74]

Affirmative, named after the province on the Yellow Sea coast, home of Shandong (aka Shantung) Chicken (crispy skin chicken that has been boiled then deep-fried and served in a dressing of black vinegar, chilli, soy sauce and coriander, its very yummy, give it a try next time you are in a good chinese restaurant  O0 ).

Liaoning is also named after a province on the Yellow Sea coast.  So based on that logic there could be ten PLAN aircraft carriers / major capital ships all up in the fleet  >:D

The PLAN destroyers and frigates are named after cities, while their amphibious ships are named after mountains.

[glitterboy2098]

if it is true they will be building the next ones bigger with catapults, i get the feeling they will borrow a page from older US doctrine, and convert the ski-jump ships to primarily ASW/amphibious assault platforms the way we did many of our WW2 escort carriers (which were fairly close to the Liaoning's size)

though i suspect that unlike those ships, they will retain at least some fighters, and they will just be adapting the design of their carrier jets to handle both catapult and ski-jump operations (similar to the french Rafale)  which means they'll probably end up comparable to our Sea Control Ship ideas. which is something that fits the Chinese focus on the South China Sea, where you have a lot of little islands, and the main conflict would be against other ships, subs, and planes.

[nerd]

Another Navy Cross for an enterprising Submarine CO and PUC for the crew on the hoof.  >:D

[worktroll]

I've heard the Chinese full CV will be based off the Soviet Projekt 1153 design, with ski jump. Something like this:



I know they aren't, but ... are those vertical launch tubes aft of the ski jump? :)

[JadeHellbringer]

They are indeed (see below photo of Special K), Granit missiles to be exact (same type the Kirovs use as their main weaponry), but that was the Soviet design- China didn't install the VLS systems on Liaoning (which Kuznetsov obviously did get), so I wouldn't be surprised if the tubes here are deleted as well.



EDIT: I should point out actually that these are the anti-ship VLS tubes shown. The ship also has 24 VLS mounts for Gauntlet SAMs, in six-packs on the corners of the flight deck. In the top-down drawing, you can see them easily once you know what to look for- see the aft corners of the flight deck? Each side has two 30mm CIWS systems, and just inboard of those are six odd objects- those are the VLS tubes. More are forward of the angled deck edges. Liaoning lacks any of this, going with a totally separate system of weaponry. A good top-down of her is linked here for comparison: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/57/92/d2/5792d21f7307a367bf868877333e7202.jpg

[ANS Kamas P81]

Well, it IS an "aircraft-carrying Cruiser" I suppose.  Darn Montreux Convention.

[DaveMac]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/26/china-launches-second-aircraft-carrier-that-is-first-built-at-home

[Kidd]

And here's the answer to today's visual riddle: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2090448/oops-chinese-defence-ministrys-pla-poster-big-photoshop

It was supposed to be a visual celebration but an official poster to mark the 68th anniversary of the Chinese navy has instead been a massive Photoshop fail for the Ministry of National Defence. The poster of the Liaoning, the country’s first aircraft carrier, was produced by the ministry and shared on its official microblog on Sunday. It pictured the carrier sailing the ocean waves with a flotilla and under a bright blue sky, declaring: “Happy birthday, People’s Liberation Army Navy!”

But online commenters were quick to point out that instead of a Chinese jet crowning the vessel’s deck, the poster showed a Russian MiG-35 fighter aircraft. On top of that, three jets pictured shooting off into the glorious skies were J-10 aircraft used by the country’s land-based forces – not the J-15s designated as carrier-based aircraft. The errors were compounded by the decision to cut and paste in two ships sailing alongside the Liaoning – those vessels are US amphibious assault ships, not Chinese vessels.

Online commenters were quick to weigh in on the visual misfires.
(snipped for impolite language)
The navy’s anniversary is particularly important for China as it coincides with the planned launch of its new domestically built aircraft carrier, an attempt by China to show off its naval and military strength. The new aircraft carrier, which is still unnamed, will be launched once the tidal conditions are right at the dock in Dalian, China.

Clarification, the Photoshopped carrier is not Shandong but Liaoning, and they recently launched it, not commissioned - minor but significant difference. Have some pics of Shandong in recompense.

[wantec]

I knew they were building ,but she waaaay further along than i thought.  How long have they been working on her? 2015?
Im little surprised they modeled her precisely Liaoning.  I thought they were going to do more western style ship.

The Wikipedia entry mentions the ship's name is Shandong.

Wikipedia also said Shandong was started in 2013.