KungsArme Armored Regiments

[Siegfried Marcus]

Just prior to the Clan invasion, Rasalhague's KungsArme had 32 armored regiments, yet I can't find any specific references to them.  Are they covered in CM Kurita?  Do we know how they were designated?  During the Clan invasion, just about every armored regiment listed is associated with a planet, e.g. Fifth Alleghe Tank Regiment.  Clearly these cannot all be KungsArme regiments.  I assume that individual planets often maintain their own defenses, and the KungsArme is a separate federal army devoted to defending key worlds and enforcing federal authority on sometimes wayward planetary authorities.  (The FRR was a new state with a particularly independent minded populace and political background.)  The regiments often had high-end equipment, especially  Hunter and Manticore tanks, and they were important in the Ronin War, so I would expect them to have made an impression somewhere.  (As far as I can tell, the same questions apply to KungsArme's 97 infantry regiments.)

I'm guessing quite a few were on Rasalhague itself where they were ineffective due to disease, low morale, lack of concentrated force, and lack of air cover.  That would still leave most of them unaccounted for.  So, where were they?  I feel like someone asked a similar question, but I can't find it now.

Here is one theory: There is overlap between the planet's own forces and the KungsArmy.  (perhaps the 1st Alleghe Tank Regiment is also the 12th KungsArme armored regiment)  But what if the KungsAmre redeploys it to another wold, or is that politically impossible?  This would mean the mech forces are the only ones truly at federal disposal.  Also, one would expect a huge disparity between KungsArme regiments and planetary forces, but I have not run across any evidence to support that.

Another: The armored regiments were not involved in the first 3 waves except at Rasalhague, and after the loss of the capital, they disintegrated/deserted/defected.  Perhaps with the Prince on the run and the loss of their top general, they abandoned the FRR.  I would think this would get mentioned in canon sources if it were the case.

Is there a canon answer?  If not, does anyone have any ideas on the topic?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The sources that'll have whatever canonical answer exsist:

20 Year Update (the seminal KungsArme source material)
Clan Wolf (details whatever hapless opposition faced Clan Mary Sue in the initial invasion)
Invading Clans (as above, but also includes those Rasalhaguian forces tasked with making Clan Gary Stu look good, too)

Now, these sources won't directly answer most of your questions.  Of particular problem is FASA's reluctance to distinguish between line "House" non-mech regiments and indigenous militia forces.  Unless a conventional regiment is directly attached to a mech regiment, that conventional regiment really doesn't get any word-count in canon.  Unless it's as the hapless opposition for invading mech forces.  So the latter two sources covering the Clan Invasion conquests of FRR worlds, it will often be unclear as to whether the conventional forces present are "House", aka KungsArme forces or planetary indigs.

[nckestrel]

Field Manual: Comstar probably gives the most information about the Kungarme's conventional forces, though a decade later.
But they seem to fit the same model most armor and other support regiments follow in other factinos.  The 3rd Drakons have the 1st Ueda Cavaliers (armor battallion) attached, and the 3rd Ueda Infantry.  The 3rd Drakons are stationed on Ueda at the time.  Most conventional forces are raised, and named, locally. They are then attached to 'mech forces as needed.  If the 'mech regiment transfers, some may move with them (particularly if they are attacking), or they may pick up whatever local forces are there instead.  There are far more conventional forces than 'mech forces. 

Other notes: CM: Kurita covers the Kungarme from formation to early 3050s.  It covers how many conventional forces, but doesn't name them or imply they are anything other than attached to the listed 'mech forces.  But note that several, the Freemen for example, where all infantry or otherwise didn't have 'mech forces when first formed.  I don't think the naming of the conventional forces implies they aren't part of the "federal" military.  No more than the Crucis Lancers aren't AFFS just because they are named , raised and supported from specific systems in the Crucis March.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I didn't mention FM: Comstar or the CM: Kurita for the same reasons.  While they do talk about the KungsArme, they talk about them in all the same ways every other "army book" talks about the respective House forces: primarily, secondarily, and tertiarially about the Mech forces.  Armored forces are barely even acknowledged that they exist, and are only talked about in specific detail is when they're attached as auxiliaries to a 'Mech force.

But yea, those books will also have some canonical tidbits that one can in turn make assumptions/inferrences upon.  But they'll be assumptions/inferrences.

[nckestrel]

One quote from 20 year update..."The Royal Rasalhague Army [aka Rasalhague Kungsarme] fields almost 150 BattleMech, tank and infantry regiments. The KungsArme also controls 62 militia regiments and five mercenary 'mech units."

IE.  The Kungsarme itself directly controls plenty of conventional regiments, but does have a separate distinction for militia regiments that it also controls.  So the 1st Ueda Cavaliers and 3rd Ueda Infantry are likely direct KungsArme regiments (all the attached forces in FM: Comstar are named simililarly, and I find it extremely unlikely they mention all militia regiments and no "federal" conventional forces but rather the other way around).

[Tai Dai Cultist]

One quote from 20 year update..."The Royal Rasalhague Army [aka Rasalhague Kungsarme] fields almost 150 BattleMech, tank and infantry regiments. The KungsArme also controls 62 militia regiments and five mercenary 'mech units."

IE.  The Kungsarme itself directly controls plenty of conventional regiments, but does have a separate distinction for militia regiments that it also controls.  So the 1st Ueda Cavaliers and 3rd Ueda Infantry are likely direct KungsArme regiments (all the attached forces in FM: Comstar are named simililarly, and I find it extremely unlikely they mention all militia regiments and no "federal" conventional forces but rather the other way around).

Well, there's certainly no doubt that ever giving a hard count on the numbers of line conventional regiments was a mistake in that it inevitably and needlessly paints TPTB into a corner.  That's why we only have a couple of mentions about it, and all back from FASA's early days.  How many DCMS infantry regiments are there not directly attached to any mech regiment?  100? 1000? 1,000,000? We actually don't need to know a hard # because any number you give inevitably conflicts with something, like a "bloated" army propping up the social order or planets sufficiently thinly defended that they can change hands w/o a Stalingrad-like campaign.

I've come to the opinion that there are "indefinate" conventional forces on each and every planet in the IS.  Enough for the relevant interstellar empire to exercise control in whatever way it does so, without being SO many that you have to answer why the presence of only a paltry dozen or so mechwarriors constitutes a respectable force.

[Siegfried Marcus]

I don't think the naming of the conventional forces implies they aren't part of the "federal" military. 

I can accept that.  So the First Alleghe Tank Regiment might be KungsArme, while the rest are local forces.  The FRR could order the 1st around, but has much less authority over the others.  If the FRR wanted to create a new armored regiment, they might absorb the 2nd and provide them with fancier gear.  And as for all those sweet Manticores,  [drool] they could turn up anywhere the FRR had an armored regiment.  I suppose, it would be asking too much for just one instance where they accomplished something canon-worthy.  ;)

[worktroll]

I suppose, it would be asking too much for just one instance where they accomplished something canon-worthy.  ;)

Join the queue, along with the Hellion, Niops, Scorpion, and other niche faction fans ;)

[The Eagle]

I suppose, it would be asking too much for just one instance where they accomplished something canon-worthy.  ;)

Taming the Ghost Bears doesn't count?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Taming the Ghost Bears doesn't count?

I'm not sure the KungsArme, irrespective of whether it was mechs or tanks, was responsible for that.

[The Eagle]

I read that last comment as referring to the FRR as a whole.  And, you know.  Sarcasm.

[Siegfried Marcus]

I think the biggest achievement of the FRR against the clans has to be killing the ilKhan and halting the Clan Invasion.  I just wanted some mention of the tank regiments that were probably some of the best equipped in the Inner Sphere, even if it was just "on Planet XXX, a regiment of KungsArme fusion tanks were destroyed by even more awesome Clan stuff."

[Colt Ward]

Fight those battles then . . . but I do not think it will be pretty when a Nova led by a Mad Dog A, Storm Crow C, Viper Prime, Viper C and Adder D supported by a mix of Laser, MG & Flamer Elemenalts run into a KungsArme armor battalion supported by some motorized infantry companies.  If I was a Bear commander, that is the sort of force I would order to stop a conventional thrust that was trying to flank my line against mechs.

Of course, I also think that is why the Gargoyle Prime ended up being the Prime- LB-5X for Veh, CF and ASF with SRMs against tanks & infantry.

[Hellraiser]

It might be FMCS or maybe its the 20YU

One of those that talks about the FRR Tank regiments mentions some of the more common tanks they use.

IIRC it was Manticore, Vedette, & Demolisher, but don't quote me on that.  But its there somewhere.

Also there is the Axel tanks that, IIRC, were 3/5 ICE versions of the Rommel & Patton.

[Siegfried Marcus]

Yes, we know quite a bit about what those regiments were.  That just makes it all the more surprising that we know basically nothing about what they did.  I read somewhere that they made an important contribution to the Ronin War but not a word about them in the existential struggle of the Clan Invasion. 

Incidentally, I posted my vision of one in the non-canon units section.

[Wrangler]

Wasn't the the tank regiments or Armor Regiments considered to be just part of planetary regiments or garrison forces?  Usually, those kind forces are just named for the world they on and number per how many per world?

I remember reading Historical: Brush Wars, that ronin wars noted that many of the Mech regiments that became named famous Mech regiments were initially Tank Regiments with perhaps exception of the 1st Tyr.

I think named regiments were the front line mobile forces with conventional infantry & armor units attached.  While any supportive regiments are just planetary based garrison forces.

[Øystein]

Yes, we know quite a bit about what those regiments were.  That just makes it all the more surprising that we know basically nothing about what they did.  I read somewhere that they made an important contribution to the Ronin War but not a word about them in the existential struggle of the Clan Invasion. 

Incidentally, I posted my vision of one in the non-canon units section.

Honestly, that is because this is a game of Giant Stompy Robots - there are gazillion armor regiments which are all just basically cannonfodder for BattleMechs.

As such, it is seldom armor regiments gets much mention.

[Siegfried Marcus]

Honestly, that is because this is a game of Giant Stompy Robots

Sure, I get that.  And it's not like expected them to win or something.  But the fact is, these particular regiments did get special attention.  That is why I thought it strange that after going to trouble of telling us how the FRR got its hands on some of the best tanks in the IS, there was no mention of them when it actually counts.  It's a "Chekhov's Gun" that just hangs on the wall.