Beside the Clans

[Mad Monkey]

Has it ever be though of to introduce an alien race to the BT world ? An race that is a little better than the clans but still can be beat with some effort.

[JadeHellbringer]

One of Battletech's unique features as a universe is that we've expanded across thousands of worlds, found all sorts of alien life, but nothing SENTIENT. It's actually a nice change from what we see in most sci-fi universes. Introducing aliens- and by that I mean sentient foes like a Klingon or something along those lines- would dilute the universe we have here, to me.

After all, the point to Battletech is how we still spend our time killing each other over pointless disputes- who needs aliens?  ^-^

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The clearly-intelligent Tetatae are part of the BattleTech canon, although it's unclear whether they exist within the BTU.

[Mendrugo]

The earliest fiction didn't posit a human-only universe, and Ardan Sortek not only describes the Stein's Folly "pinks" as sapient, but notes that humanity has encountered several other sapient species in its explorations. 

That being said, later developers firmly declared that (Tetatae notwithstanding), there are no sentient aliens in BattleTech.  It would have required a whole new set of rules mechanics to cover alien tech, potentially making game balance a nightmare.  In addition, there'd be a tendency to have the human factions banding together against the alien threat, decreasing the factional diversity that is at the core of BattleTech politics.

At the 1990s developer meetings, every now and then somebody would suggest introducing aliens, or bringing back the Wolverines.  Finally, someone quipped that the Wolverines were off in the deep periphery fighting to protect the Inner Sphere from the aliens, so we'd not be seeing either for the foreseeable future.  That's pretty much been policy ever since.

 

[Mad Monkey]

Yes an sentient type race would be great to see, this could bring all the Houses together . I was thinking an race like something from MACROSS, invading to remove certain type of resources .

[Kit deSummersville]

According to the Cappellans, Chesterton has been full of illegal aliens for centuries!

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Yes an sentient type race would be great to see, this could bring all the Houses together . I was thinking an race like something from MACROSS, invading to remove certain type of resources .

We have that already in the Clans.

Half-way snarking ahead:  (only half-way...)

As for the "protoculture" analogue (of the English dub), my headcanon says the Clans value Peanut Butter above all other resources.  For whatever reason, Kerensky's Exodus didn't bring any peanut seeds.  Once Wolf's Dragoons radioed back the many amazing uses of the Peanut, the Clans had to invade to take them.

I also prefer the "Aliens who found Kerensky's followers dead husks and ate their DNA, subsequently taking their form, and now forgot they're aliens to begin with" origin story of the Clans as well :)

[Mendrugo]

My Khan, we have recovered the giftake of George Washington Carver.  With these genes in our Scientist Caste, nothing can stop us from achieving Peanut Butter IIC!

[Maingunnery]

If there were any sentient aliens, they would be just too delicious and go extinct in a few years after discovery.

[JadeHellbringer]

We have that already in the Clans.

Half-way snarking ahead:  (only half-way...)

As for the "protoculture" analogue (of the English dub), my headcanon says the Clans value Peanut Butter above all other resources.  For whatever reason, Kerensky's Exodus didn't bring any peanut seeds.  Once Wolf's Dragoons radioed back the many amazing uses of the Peanut, the Clans had to invade to take them.

I also prefer the "Aliens who found Kerensky's followers dead husks and ate their DNA, subsequently taking their form, and now forgot they're aliens to begin with" origin story of the Clans as well :)

You're close, but off by plant type. Or didn't you catch the Snow Raven envoy's surprised (and not overwhelmingly positive) reaction to their first cup of coffee during one of the Jihad books?  ^-^

[Mattlov]

I'd see something more like a Skynet or CAV Psyros being the "aliens" of Battletech.  Rampant AI more than an actual extraterrestrial.

[Kit deSummersville]

I'd see something more like a Skynet or CAV Psyros being the "aliens" of Battletech.  Rampant AI more than an actual extraterrestrial.

Bah, so pedestrian. I want it to break the fourth wall and have the heroes fighting against the units that are blessed with fiat from a rogue writer. Only finding the One True Line Developer can bring him to heel.

[Atlas3060]

Yes an sentient type race would be great to see, this could bring all the Houses together . I was thinking an race like something from MACROSS, invading to remove certain type of resources .

The interesting conundrum with aliens is how to strike a balance between what is relate able and what isn't with them.
If such aliens have human desires, for resources let's say, then honestly aren't they merely humans with prosthesis on their head like Star Trek/Wars?

If they have desires that are beyond our comprehension, then that might go against the space soap opera that goes pew pew with lazors which was established. Besides, if we didn't know what their motivations are, they're more like forces of nature that humans have no way of fighting against.

Which is where I give the Word of Blake their due respect. (ick ick ick!)
They managed to tick off both Clans and Houses to a point of temporary unity, just enough to let things go back to normal.
By normal, I refer to stabbing each other in a civilized manner while decrying our neighbors of the very same thing we did.  ;)

[HABeas2]

Bah, so pedestrian. I want it to break the fourth wall and have the heroes fighting against the units that are blessed with fiat from a rogue writer. Only finding the One True Line Developer can bring him to heel.

*twitch*

-

[SteelRaven]

Bah, so pedestrian. I want it to break the fourth wall and have the heroes fighting against the units that are blessed with fiat from a rogue writer. Only finding the One True Line Developer can bring him to heel.

*twitch*

-

[DarthRads]

I'd see something more like a Skynet or CAV Psyros being the "aliens" of Battletech.  Rampant AI more than an actual extraterrestrial.

I did this one. A merc group misjumps and arrives at a former Hegemony world that has lo g since been written off. They find a fully functional SDS system (Ground and Naval) that gas achieved a pseudo self awareness. It's programing stated it had to defend humanity against attackers and when the coup happened, with humans fighting humans, it wigged out and killed everyone.

[DarthRads]

The interesting conundrum with aliens is how to strike a balance between what is relate able and what isn't with them.
If such aliens have human desires, for resources let's say, then honestly aren't they merely humans with prosthesis on their head like Star Trek/Wars?

If they have desires that are beyond our comprehension, then that might go against the space soap opera that goes pew pew with lazors which was established. Besides, if we didn't know what their motivations are, they're more like forces of nature that humans have no way of fighting against.

Which is where I give the Word of Blake their due respect. (ick ick ick!)
They managed to tick off both Clans and Houses to a point of temporary unity, just enough to let things go back to normal.
By normal, I refer to stabbing each other in a civilized manner while decrying our neighbors of the very same thing we did.  ;)

Jack Campbell does a good job of this in the LOST FLEET books, particularly the BEYOND THE FRONTIER series with THREE sentient aliens discovered. Humanity accidently declares war in one by smiling. This revealed our teeth, which showed us to be carnivores ans thus a threat!

[mbear]

I did this one. A merc group misjumps and arrives at a former Hegemony world that has lo g since been written off. They find a fully functional SDS system (Ground and Naval) that gas achieved a pseudo self awareness. It's programing stated it had to defend humanity against attackers and when the coup happened, with humans fighting humans, it wigged out and killed everyone.

The HAL9000 method. Always a classic.

[Mad Monkey]

The idea to bring an alien threat to BT was to unite the Houses to fight them and maybe push the Clan back too. Then after it was over the Houses could return to what they do best , fighting among themselves .

[marauder648]

Don't forget that the Inner sphere and the space we've explored in B-Tech is TINY on a galactic scale.  Who's to say there's not some aliens out there, just further away than where we've gone.

[SteelRaven]

I always like that BT was about human conflict and how history repeated itself, don't think it would add anything to add aliens to the mix.

That said: the Genecast would be your best bet. The urban legend that ended up being true. 

[Empyrus]

No. Aliens. In. BattleTech. Ever.

Don't suggest that. It would not be BattleTech anymore then.

[Kit deSummersville]

*twitch*

-

Sorry Herb, didn't mean to break you. Send me the repair bill.

[Brother Jim]

There are plenty of alien life forms in BattleTech.
There are exactly ZERO sentient and technologically advanced non-humans in the setting.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Bah, so pedestrian. I want it to break the fourth wall and have the heroes fighting against the units that are blessed with fiat from a rogue writer. Only finding the One True Line Developer can bring him to heel.

Best Ever II, a followup sourcebook for the Eighth World!

[HABeas2]

Sorry Herb, didn't mean to break you. Send me the repair bill.

You may never financially recover...

-

[JadeHellbringer]

The idea to bring an alien threat The Word Of Blake to BT was to unite the Houses to fight them and maybe push the Clan back too. Then after it was over the Houses could return to what they do best , fighting among themselves .

Like I said, who needs aliens? Religious cultists do the job without having to leave the realm of humanity. (Well, ok, depending on your view of the Manei Domini)

[Maingunnery]

Like I said, who needs aliens? Religious cultists do the job without having to leave the realm of humanity. (Well, ok, depending on your view of the Manei Domini)

Thuggee, if you want to take a step further.

[Gaiiten]

When the Clans were introduced they were perfectly Alien. The Manei Domini were fatastic Alien either.
I hope that the HomeClans might evolve into a more radical Alien compared to the Inner Sphere.

[Sartris]

from a practical standpoint... aliens mean alien technology. alien technology means more tech bloat. and if they don't have a completely separate technology base, why bother having them? pass.

[Gaiiten]

Alien social and cultural background are far more interesting than Alien technology.

[Sartris]

which leads to faction bloat, another thing we don't need

[Gaiiten]

which leads to faction bloat, another thing we don't need

Then there should have never be an ongoing storyline from 3025 onwards.
Factions shall come and go.

[Sartris]

Then there should have never be an ongoing storyline from 3025 onwards.
Factions shall come and go.

you can have factions without faction bloat. we already have a bunch of factions that get almost no screen time. adding aliens would draw almost all of the attention to the NEW SHINY and stretch thin resources even thinner.

You're probably going to have to go find another universe to get your extraterrestrial fix.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

you can have factions without faction bloat. we already have a bunch of factions that get almost no screen time. adding aliens would draw almost all of the attention to the NEW SHINY and stretch thin resources even thinner.

You're probably going to have to go find another universe to get your extraterrestrial fix.

or make an AU where Aliens invade.  BattleTechnology Magazine had one.  Of course, all's fair in an ATOW rpg campaign, too.  We've got a canonical Zombie Survival adventure, afterall :D

[SteelRaven]

Alien social and cultural background are far more interesting than Alien technology.

This!

[Empyrus]

Given BTs hard-SF aesthetic (though it is quite soft in reality), alien tech wouldn't be terribly interesting. Engineering is universal, so alien tech would be very similar to human tech. If they were sufficiently advanced to use various exotic things, they would not be engaging in conventional warfare... At least not without steamrolling humans.

Even outside thematic issues with aliens in BT, they would not add anything to the setting.

If aliens are human-like as in most scifi, you might as well use humans. If aliens are actually alien, they're... difficult. Focusing on them would detract from BTs focus.

As it is, the Clans manage to be more alien than your average scifi aliens, despite being human. But they're human, and plausible enough they're interesting and perhaps relatable.

[Wolf72]

I'm still a fan of the rogue AI ... now add in the transformers from Cali/nebula, some battle armor sized units too (terminators), infantry class units (battle droids from SW) ... some crazy matrix stuff too!

not at all original, but sounds like fun. (not so much going all dune-like machine war though)

[Empyrus]

(not so much going all dune-like machine war though)

There never was a "machine war" in Dune, despite what certain books that are claimed to be Dune prequels and sequels claim.

The Butlerian Jihad did away with machines, but that was because they induced machine-mindedness, stagnation.

*cough*
I'll go beat my inner Dune fan back to corner, he is not needed here.

[Feenix74]

The Douglas Adams fan in me says that there are definitely highly advanced sentient aliens in the Battletech Universe. They took one look at humanity/inner sphere/periphery, labelled us "Mostly Harmless" and decided to give us a very wide berth.

[Empyrus]

The Douglas Adams fan in me says that there are definitely highly advanced sentient aliens in the Battletech Universe. They took one look at humanity/inner sphere/periphery, labelled us "Mostly Harmless" and decided to give us a very wide berth.

Nah, Super Wolverines are fighting them in the deep space.
Also, they figured "too harmful", probably. Not economical to attack.

[pensiveswetness]

It's technically a tag team effort between the Wolverines and the MD's (though it's up in the air which faction if the Hulkster and which is Savage...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rE0-ek6MZA

[Charistoph]

There is also the possibility that any alien culture sufficiently advanced to not by steamrolled by a pirate force out there is also so alien that desired systems and worlds are just vastly divergent that there has been no occasion for them to meet, much less any reason to.  Their Jump routes take them in ways which ignore human-used systems and vice-versa.  Kind of like just how alien the Orz and Slylandro were in Star Control 2.

Still, as has been said, the Clans were sufficiently alien in culture for any xeno fix.

[Wolf72]

There never was a "machine war" in Dune, despite what certain books that are claimed to be Dune prequels and sequels claim.

The Butlerian Jihad did away with machines, but that was because they induced machine-mindedness, stagnation.

*cough*
I'll go beat my inner Dune fan back to corner, he is not needed here.

Was about to say "hey, read those books and ..."  It's not something I'm overly proud of. They were sci-fi, read them, def not my favorites though.  The last books were similar ... I couldn't help but think of some overly sexed sci-fi theme.  Ala Game of thrones season 1 (and 2) ... was like cool story, but seen enough 'action'.

[sadlerbw]

Go ahead and put me in the 'no sentient aliens please' camp. The Clans were alien enough, and look at what happened with them. They were more unbalanced than a sumo wrestler riding on a see-saw with a chihuahua, and we are STILL fighting with their power creep to this day. Plus, the man vs. man conflict is really the heart and soul of this universe. We don't need tentacle-faced space monsters to unite the sphere because uniting the inner sphere is anathema to the entire setting. The whole place is SUPPOSED to be nationalistic and balkanized. Take that away and we might as well be playing Halo.

[Death by Lasers]

  The Tetatae hordes are going to conquer the IS.  It turns out the Tetatae were actually super intelligent and were only discovered during the hunter gatherer stage of their development.  Since our last encounter with them in 3056 they have rapidly gone through an industrial revolution and reverse engineered the Battlemech.  They are secretly conspiring with the Free World's League, Clan Jade Falcon, and Clan Snow Raven to conquer the Inner Sphere and are building a force of Mad Cats, Marauders, Locusts, and other bird-walking mechs to subjugate all under their cruel avian capriciousness. 

[Kit deSummersville]

Until they devastate themselves on Inarcs fighting a giant reflective wall.

[Ang Moh Siao]

. . .there should have never be an ongoing storyline from 3025 onwards.

Well, actually, that's my favorite and only way I personally want to play it as a tabletop game.  All the universe bloat has done nothing at all to enhance my own enjoyment of the rollin'-dice and count-the-hexes part.  Of course, to each cat his own rat.  We don't all have to like the same things.

[I am Belch II]

I really hope that Aliens of any kind that can take out a Battlemech don't show up in the BTU.

[Charistoph]

I really hope that Aliens of any kind that can take out a Battlemech don't show up in the BTU.

Well, no sentient aliens who can do it on their own.  No Saiyans or Pit Lords.

We already have alien dinosaurs who already can do it in universe.

Sentient aliens who are good at using their Tanks should be able to take down Battlemechs just as easily as humans using Tanks.  Sentient aliens with good Battle Armor should be able to take down Battlemechs just as easily as humans using Battle Armor, and so on.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Until they devastate themselves on Inarcs fighting a giant reflective wall.

The true use of Reflec armor!

[SCC]

Then there should have never be an ongoing storyline from 3025 onwards.

Without a storyline there is no BattleTech as we known it today, we'd still be playing with 2nd ed rules, or maybe even Battledroids, and would you want that?

[(SMD)MadCow]

Without a storyline there is no BattleTech as we known it today, we'd still be playing with 2nd ed rules, or maybe even Battledroids, and would you want that?

Sometimes...

[Col Toda]

I believe that some sapient bird like race was written about with stone age tech level . It is fairly believable that advanced alien races existed in the distant past before mankind walked the moon and others would arise after it is gone . I am working on a Dark Age scenario in which alien raiders do punitive attacks on worlds near the periphery sending out a radio statement man sent Celestial fighting machines to attack the people . The people will send Anti Celestial fighting machines in reprisal .  We will stop when man does . We make fighting machines like yours so you may understand the message . I call this the Wag the Dog scenario in which some anti Word of Blake group wants the Inner Sphere powers to spend resources to look , prepare and rearm against the return of the Word of Blake . So the found a planet that had a civilization on it which died out . They reconstruct them using biotech like Jurassic Park and have these new aliens train a new generation without human contact so any captured in the field believes the story. I based this race as evolved bats . The idea is to give the impression that the aliens cannot conceive any intelligent people have to be a unified cooperative society . The only apparent solution is to hunt down the remaining Word of Blake . Conflict happens when different factions who want to push the Canon agendas and timelines to squelch the raids from the general population so it can be business as usual . Or a WOB cell that see this for what it is but has to expose themselves somehow to investigate it to get proof ect. All sorts of A Time of War games and Battletech mech battles can happen with this idea. Faux aliens very well might get some or all of what you want just as much as real ones. This is just adapting something like a Cross of Interstellar Expeditions and Clan iron womb tech . It is not as if extinct totem animals have not been brought back this way ,Al La the Sea Fox.

[Don Lunardi]

Put me down in the "No Aliens" camp.  Mostly this is because the majority of Aliens in Sci-Fi are really not that well done, generally being made to represent some extreme example of human behavior.  Those guys?  They are the Warrior Race.  Them?  They are the Science Race?  Those?  The Ultra Religious/Spiritual Race.  Those other dude?  The Money/Economically-obsessed race. Etc...

Really, there's been enough comments about how the original Successor States have had some of their 3025 complexity denuded in favour of more simplistic archetypes to be represented as Space China, Space Germany, Space Britain, Space Japan, Space Vikings, Space Taiwan, and Space Europe/Balkans/CivilWarGuys.  I would rather see fewer factions in the BTU with more depth than many that are just fleshed out at the most superficial of levels.

[RunandFindOut]

If prefer the "No Aliens" vibe as it focuses on the human nature of conflict, that ultimately people are still people no matter what year and still fight and kill each other for intrinsic very human reasons.  But that said I don't at all mind the existence of sapient aliens, they in fact exist in quite a few places in the setting.  They're just all technologically very primitive, there are several pieces of canon where references are made to species on settled Inner Sphere worlds that are sapient and use primitive tools on par with early hominids.  They also tend to end up as the local equivalent of bigfoot living primitive existences in the hinterlands humans haven't really settled and occasionally killing lone humans.  In fact I GMed a short campaign in which a small el-cheapo merc company on a garrison and cadre contract got a side contract for the planetary duke hunting down a tribe of primitive aliens that had picked off some college students doing research in the wilderness.  (One of the victims was his daughters boyfriend, therefore it was KILL THE XENO time).

I could accept the existence of an Orion's Arm style alien where it was truly ALIEN and so strange and different that they and humans didn't even value the same types of solar systems and their only contacts were ones of sporatic failures to communicate.  Where humans and aliens both existed but much like carp and mountain goats occupy such different niches that they never really interact and only rarely encounter each other.