BEST Battle Armor design challenge

[Black_Knyght]

Here's a design challenge for any who cares to give it a shot -

Our merc unit, the Black Knights, is building a new Battle Armor force designated as B.E.S.T (BattleArmor Enhanced Strike Team). With that in mind, we have two possible Battle Armors that are being consider for deployment.

Your challenge is to design those armors, based on the two images posted below.

Using the one or both images, design what you consider to to the most effective BattleArmor you can and we'll see how it matches up against existing designs and other challengers!

[Sabelkatten]

Hmm... Looks like assault BA.

1 ground MP, no manipulators, 17 advanced armor, ML RA, 2xAPWM (one each arm). First one has a MRR LA, second has a OS-SRM6 body and a Firedrake LA

[Black_Knyght]

Hmm... Looks like assault BA.

1 ground MP, no manipulators, 17 advanced armor, ML RA, 2xAPWM (one each arm). First one has a MRR LA, second has a OS-SRM6 body and a Firedrake LA

Trying to duplicate this in MML, but I don't see a "MMR" or a "Firedrake" ?

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Medium Recoilless Rifle and Firedrake Needler?

[CrazyGrasshopper]

His second variant (MRR and OS SRM-6) is 1 crit slot short.

EDIT: Meant (Firedrake and OS SRM-6), obviously.

[Sabelkatten]

Oups, yeah. Forgot the space for the Firedrake. And as you figured MMR was supposed to be MRR... :-[

Drop one of the APWMs (one should be enough anyway) to free up the space.

[worktroll]

"Enhanced Strike Team" screams flexibility to me, and - frankly - the medium suit is the most flexible chassis.

Assuming IS tech, I came up with:

Ground MP 1, jump MP 3, 8 points advanced standard armour. Basic manipulators on each hand.

I didn't pay the spaces for modular mounts, so the first suit - the "BEST(N)", "Best'Un", or BEST Normal, is equipped with LRR in right arm mount, and an HMG in the left. Finally, for real flexibility in deployment, it uses mag clamps..

It's not meant to duel at long range - it can fight, but does its best getting up close & personal. (Unfortunately we decided not to let you mag-clamp units on the skin of VTOLS, support planes, ASFs, or DropShips ...)

The second version - BEST(E), "Bestie", or BEST Endurance, replaces the LRR with a David Gauss rifle, and the HMG with an SRM-2 pack with 5 reloads. Otherwise, it's identical. Obviously intended to provide fire support, but every bit as flexible as the Best'Un. A typical platoon would be three squads Best'Uns, and a squad of Besties.


Yup, the suit looks heavy-ish, but heavy, strike, and flexible don't mix well for my designs. And don't forget the David's enhanced damage against other BA, or its ability to load Infernos ;)

[CrazyGrasshopper]

"Enhanced Strike Team" screams flexibility to me, and - frankly - the medium suit is the most flexible chassis.

Assuming IS tech, I came up with:

Ground MP 1, jump MP 3, 8 points advanced standard armour. Basic manipulators on each hand.

I didn't pay the spaces for modular mounts, so the first suit - the "BEST(N)", "Best'Un", or BEST Normal, is equipped with LRR in right arm mount, and an HMG in the left. Finally, for real flexibility in deployment, it uses mag clamps..

It's not meant to duel at long range - it can fight, but does its best getting up close & personal. (Unfortunately we decided not to let you mag-clamp units on the skin of VTOLS, support planes, ASFs, or DropShips ...)

The second version - BEST(E), "Bestie", or BEST Endurance, replaces the LRR with a David Gauss rifle, and the HMG with an SRM-2 pack with 5 reloads. Otherwise, it's identical. Obviously intended to provide fire support, but every bit as flexible as the Best'Un. A typical platoon would be three squads Best'Uns, and a squad of Besties.


Yup, the suit looks heavy-ish, but heavy, strike, and flexible don't mix well for my designs. And don't forget the David's enhanced damage against other BA, or its ability to load Infernos ;)

The 2nd variant can fit 6 reloads. And David Light Gauss does not deal enhanced damage against BA (TacOps optional rule), King David Light does. Off top and for the record, Bearhunter's enhanced damage against BA irks me as illogical.

[worktroll]

IIRC, it was errataed to give the David 1D6, the King David 2D6, and the BarrHunter 3D6 against another BA suit. I could be wrong though; even absent the extra damage, the David does provide some reach, for less weight than the LRR.

And frankly, given the Barrhunter has no short range, letting it massacre other BA - in the unlikely event it hits, even at point-blank range - is probably the only reason one would ever bother using it in a TW game. Despite the whole "MOAR DAKKA" thing ... from a looks view I like my modded Gnomes with dual MOAR DAKKA ;)

W.

[Daryk]

The best use of a Bearhunter is in a conventional infantry point with four Mauser IICs... 8 points of damage at 3/6/9 range from 5 guys... /threadjack

[CrazyGrasshopper]

IIRC, it was errataed to give the David 1D6, the King David 2D6, and the BarrHunter 3D6 against another BA suit. I could be wrong though; even absent the extra damage, the David does provide some reach, for less weight than the LRR.

And frankly, given the Barrhunter has no short range, letting it massacre other BA - in the unlikely event it hits, even at point-blank range - is probably the only reason one would ever bother using it in a TW game. Despite the whole "MOAR DAKKA" thing ... from a looks view I like my modded Gnomes with dual MOAR DAKKA ;)

W.

These are the rules:

(p. 108) After “Battle Armor Infantry” insert the following new section:
 BATTLE ARMOR VS. BATTLE ARMOR Some battle armor-grade weapons are particularly effective against other armored troops. To represent this, use the Battle Armor Vs. Battle Armor Table, instead of normal damage.
 
BATTLE ARMOR VS. BATTLE ARMOR TABLE
 Battle Armor Weapon Anti-Battle Armor damage (apply to single trooper) Bearhunter Superheavy AC 3D6 King David Light Gauss Rifle 1D6 Plasma Rifle 2+1D6*
 *Uses standard damage against fire-resistant battle armor.

Unless there is errata of errata I do not know about. And 3+2d6 for Bearhunter would not KO my headcanon as 3d6 does, though the change is almost cosmetic. I won't derail anymore.

[worktroll]

Looks like I misremembered, and the Bestie will have to rely on its SRMs for impact, and the David for plinking :)

W.

[Black_Knyght]

Damn, as WorkTroll rightfully assumed (and I neglected to clarify), this IS for an Inner Sphere unit using Inner Spheroid tech available up to 3075...

[CrazyGrasshopper]

You can stick to almost Sabelkatten's suggestion with a bit of change. In both variants there will be an AI weapon anyway, so you drop AP mounts entirely. Instead, take a Modular Weapon Mount into the LA location for the ML+MRR variant. You will be left with free 10 kg. Thus, for the 2nd variant, you can swap MRR for LMG and add a jettison-capable OS SRM-5 (I changed weapons a bit to keep the locations occupied by Advanced Armor fixed).

I do not think that the jettison-capable missile pack is officially considered a modular weapon, but, at least for my headcanon, it is justified to be one. This way, you can change configuration from one variant to another on any suit. 

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Why can't I find a Modular Weapon Mount in MegaMekLab? And why missile packs can't be made jet-capable?

[worktroll]

Using the BA Builder Excel sheet, so can't help you there.

Jet - Jump-Jet, or Jettisonable?

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Using the BA Builder Excel sheet, so can't help you there.

Jet - Jump-Jet, or Jettisonable?

Jettisonable.

[worktroll]

Detachable weapon mount, not Modular? IIRC that's what you need.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Detachable weapon mount, not Modular? IIRC that's what you need.

No, I meant Modular Weapon Mount -- 10 kg, 1 slot.

Whatever, these are some problems with MML.

[worktroll]

Tech manual, p254, "Detachable Missile Pack modification".  Does MML carry DMPs as equipment, or as condition on a missile pack? BA Builder has them as an item.

You could put missiles in a MWP, but they might not then be jettisonable?

W.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Tech manual, p254, "Detachable Missile Pack modification".  Does MML carry DMPs as equipment, or as condition on a missile pack? BA Builder has them as an item.

You could put missiles in a MWP, but they might not then be jettisonable?

W.

I know that Modular Weapon Mount (10kg, 1 slot) and Detachable Missile Pack (10kg, 0 slots) are different things. MML simply lacks both.

[worktroll]

Want me to email you a copy of the BA Builder spreadsheet? It lacks high-level verification - will let you break some rules - but is pretty simple, and really handy.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Want me to email you a copy of the BA Builder spreadsheet? It lacks high-level verification - will let you break some rules - but is pretty simple, and really handy.

Thanks for the concern, but I can simply add the lacking things by hand and can use the Tech Manual directly. I'll just report the issue to the MegaMek development team.

[Cryhavok101]

Option One:

Code: [Select]

IS advanced
Medium

BV: 298
Cost: 2,008,000 C-bills

Movement: 3 ground

Internal: 4
Armor: 32
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Trooper 1                   1        8
Trooper 2                   1        8
Trooper 3                   1        8
Trooper 4                   1        8

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Flamer (DWP)                   Squad     3
King David Light Gauss (DWP)   Squad     0
Swarm Mek                      Squad     0
Attack Swarmed Mek             Squad     0
Stop Swarm Attack              Squad     0
Leg Attack                     Squad     0

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Detachable Weapon Pack         Right arm
Detachable Weapon Pack         Left arm
BA Advanced                    Body
BA Advanced                    Body
BA Advanced                    Left arm
BA Advanced                    Left arm
BA Advanced                    Right arm
Battle Magnetic Claw           Left arm
Battle Magnetic Claw           Right arm
Magnetic Clamps                Body
Cutting Torch                  Right arm


One of those weapons looks like a flamer to me, with a pilot light sort of thing under the weapon barrel. The other could be any number of weapons, but for a "Enhanced Strike Team" I thought a weapon to deal with other battle armor would be a decent idea. The flamer handles infantry, the Gauss handle battle armor.

I decided to set mine as a medium armor. This allows it to make swarm and leg attacks, where heavy and assault can't. To aid in this it was also given magnetic battle claws, giving it a bonus to it's checks. Once it had that I figured I might as well make it able to mechanize on anything. This would allow the strike team to use anything as a transport. Giving it considerably more options in something like an aToW covert mission.

It has the same large laser stopping armor level as an inner sphere standard, though this one uses advanced armor. It has an MP of 2 unless it ditches it's detachable guns, at which time it can book it at 3mp. Really though, it should just be hoping on the nearest vehicle or mech to escape.

Option Two:

Code: [Select]

IS advanced
Heavy

BV: 366
Cost: 2,176,000 C-bills

Movement: 1 ground
(Burdened by unjettisoned body-mounted missile launchers)

Internal: 4
Armor: 32
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Trooper 1                   1        8
Trooper 2                   1        8
Trooper 3                   1        8
Trooper 4                   1        8

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
SRM 3 (Body)                   Squad     0
Light Machine Gun (Right arm)  Squad     0
LRM 3 (Body)                   Squad     0

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
BA SRM 3 Inferno Ammo          Squad     4
BA LRM 3 Ammo                  Squad     4

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Magnetic Clamps                Left arm
Battle Claw                    Left arm
Single-Hex ECM                 Body


Heavier and slower than Option one, Option 2 has the same level of protection, but carries missiles. Each shoulder has a 3-rack of missiles, one with LRMs, and one with SRM infernos (though that can be changed to another ammo type). The right arm is mounted with a light machine gun. It can provide the fire support from 12 LRM missiles, take out armor, infantry, and even other battle armor with the Infernos, and deal with any number of infantry with it's light machine gun.

The left arm has the same magnetic systems that option one does so it can mechanize on anything as well, a great boon for a mercenary unit. Though the suit itself has a heavier frame, and a slower speed on it's own.

With the same level of armor, Option Two carries one further protection: a squad wide ECM system, that can protect the squad from numerous threats. Also it's armor is standard armor, making it possibly easier to replace and repair.