Ammo Explosions and Piloting Skill Checks

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Two part question: Ammo Explosions and Piloting Checks! Just using base rules out of starter box.

So first off Ammo Explosions: so my groups just been playing and yesterday my Awesome lanced a PPC into a Dragons LRM ammo. The dragon had only fired the LRM about five times or six (it was a small game and we didn't really track ammo but anyways) and I crit on his ammo (twice I rolled 12's on the crit table).

So first things first: his left arm was completely gone from the previous turn: armor and internal. His left torso being also gone of armor as his right torso and center torso mostly gone of armor.

So the first question: how much damage does it actually do as where does it apply? As I was reading it it seemed that 10 X 19 X 1 ? And then does it hit the LT internal then the CT then internal CT?



Second question: piloting checks

So little bit confused on how they work. Your base number is our piloting skill factor and then added to it are the appropriate modifiers for like gyro hit or damage. Is that it?

I mean and then do I have to make checks if the mech stands still or only if it moves? If it gets hit again or only that 20 pt hit?




I think that's it and thanks in advance.

[Mattlov]

Ammo explosion:  You take the remaining ammo (let's call it 6 shots) and multiply it by the amount of damage the weapon can do MAXIMUM per shot.  For an LRM 10, that is 10.  SO we multiply 6x10, and get 60.  This damage occurs in the location where the ammo suffered the critical hit, then transfers inward towards the center torso just like other damage, except the ammo explosion ignores armor, and only goes through internals. 

So for our example, let's say he has 10 internal structure left in the left torso, where the ammo suffered the critical hit.  You have suffered 60 (ouch) points of damage. 

10 damage of that destroys the rest of the left torso internal structure.  50 damage from the explosion remaining.

The damage transfers inward towards the center torso.  It ignores armor and goes straight through internals.  This is why most ammo explosions are pretty fatal to introductory 'Mechs.

The Dragon has 20 internal structure points in the Center torso.  It suffers 20 damage and destroys the 'Mech through center torso destruction with 30 damage remaining that is lost in a pretty light show.  'Mech is super dead.

Piloting Checks:

Yes, your base number is your piloting skill number.  No matter what you did on the turn, if something happens that requires a piloting check unless you are already on the ground.

All of the modifiers are cumulative for your rolls.  You also have to make a roll for EACH thing which causes a piloting check.

In ONE PHASE (weapon attacks OR Physical attack phase)
Your 'Mech takes 20 points of damage for a +1 penalty.
You have a broken lower leg actuator for a +1 penalty.
And your gyro has taken a critical hit for a +3 penalty.

If your piloting skill is 5, your total piloting skill check to remain standing is an 10.  5+1+1+3=10.

The part that sucks is that you have to make THREE checks at a 10+ to stay standing.  Each penalty causes a separate roll, with the modifiers for all effects.

Once the Physical attack phase comes around the modifiers all apply again, with the 20+ damage modifier "resetting" every phase.  So if you take 25 points of weapon damage in the weapon attack phase, but only 10 damage in the physical attack phase, you do not apply the +1 for 20+ points of damage.

NOTE:  These modifiers only apply if you are doing something that requires a piloting skill check.  Let's say you have that damaged actuator and gyro crit, but only suffer 15 points of damage in the weapon attack phase, you do not require ANY piloting skill checks, because nothing has caused you to make a piloting skill check.

Gamer's Note:  I know a LOT of groups do not play with the standard rules.  In my group, we only make 1 roll with all the penalties per phase.  Otherwise some games turn in to DominoTech, with nothing but 'Mechs falling over everywhere, and that's not fun.

[Col Toda]

Normally in an ammo explosion a pilot check is moot . If the Auto Eject is engaged it will activate at ANY ammo explosion . If it is disengaged and has CASE the mech may still be alive. In a proper campaign you may have skill softs that disengages the Auto Eject if it has CASE an no XL engine and activates if it gets a head hit or an ammo explosion after that point . 

[JenniferinaMAD]

Normally in an ammo explosion a pilot check is moot . If the Auto Eject is engaged it will activate at ANY ammo explosion . If it is disengaged and has CASE the mech may still be alive. In a proper campaign you may have skill softs that disengages the Auto Eject if it has CASE an no XL engine and activates if it gets a head hit or an ammo explosion after that point .

Just a note to the OP, anything relating ejection, auto or otherwise, is beyond the starter box rules and even the Total Warfare rules. They are useful if you wish to go into campaigns and Tactical Operations advanced rules, but until you do, don't worry about them.

[pensiveswetness]

Ammo explosion:  You take the remaining ammo (let's call it 6 shots) and multiply it by the amount of damage the weapon can do MAXIMUM per shot.  For an LRM 10, that is 10.  SO we multiply 6x10, and get 60.  This damage occurs in the location where the ammo suffered the critical hit, then transfers inward towards the center torso just like other damage, except the ammo explosion ignores armor, and only goes through internals. 

So for our example, let's say he has 10 internal structure left in the left torso, where the ammo suffered the critical hit.  You have suffered 60 (ouch) points of damage. 

10 damage of that destroys the rest of the left torso internal structure.  50 damage from the explosion remaining.

The damage transfers inward towards the center torso.  It ignores armor and goes straight through internals.  This is why most ammo explosions are pretty fatal to introductory 'Mechs.

The Dragon has 20 internal structure points in the Center torso.  It suffers 20 damage and destroys the 'Mech through center torso destruction with 30 damage remaining that is lost in a pretty light show.  'Mech is super dead.

Piloting Checks:

Yes, your base number is your piloting skill number.  No matter what you did on the turn, if something happens that requires a piloting check unless you are already on the ground.

All of the modifiers are cumulative for your rolls.  You also have to make a roll for EACH thing which causes a piloting check.

In ONE PHASE (weapon attacks OR Physical attack phase)
Your 'Mech takes 20 points of damage for a +1 penalty.
You have a broken lower leg actuator for a +1 penalty.
And your gyro has taken a critical hit for a +3 penalty.

If your piloting skill is 5, your total piloting skill check to remain standing is an 10.  5+1+1+3=10.

The part that sucks is that you have to make THREE checks at a 10+ to stay standing.  Each penalty causes a separate roll, with the modifiers for all effects.

Once the Physical attack phase comes around the modifiers all apply again, with the 20+ damage modifier "resetting" every phase.  So if you take 25 points of weapon damage in the weapon attack phase, but only 10 damage in the physical attack phase, you do not apply the +1 for 20+ points of damage.

NOTE:  These modifiers only apply if you are doing something that requires a piloting skill check.  Let's say you have that damaged actuator and gyro crit, but only suffer 15 points of damage in the weapon attack phase, you do not require ANY piloting skill checks, because nothing has caused you to make a piloting skill check.

Gamer's Note:  I know a LOT of groups do not play with the standard rules.  In my group, we only make 1 roll with all the penalties per phase.  Otherwise some games turn in to DominoTech, with nothing but 'Mechs falling over everywhere, and that's not fun.

Clarification? (this presumes that your game setting is campaign-natured) with that 30 points of remaining damage going out that Dragon's CT rear, does that imply that the remaining locations not obliterated by the ammo explosion exist for salvage purposes, going by the Book (TW)?

[Skyth]

I believe a mech destroyed by an ammo explosion is not salvageable. 

[Mattlov]

A 'Mech destroyed by an ammo explosion is not salvageable as a chassis, but unexploded parts like legs or arms would still have use.  Anywhere the ammo explosion didn't go through would have at least some parts you could salvage. 

But the engine, gyro, and chassis as a whole is considered destroyed beyond repair.

[JenniferinaMAD]

The above applies to mechs whose centre torso was destroyed by ammo explosions. If the mech was destroyed by other means through an ammo explosion (such as the pilot being killed by the explosion or an XL engine getting knocked out) without the explosion damage destroying the CT completely (damage was either low enough or blocked by CASE), then the mech remains salvageable.
You could even blow up head stored ammo (a theoretical design possibility) and destroy the mech that way and have the machine salvageable (as damage does not transfer on from the head).

[Mattlov]

Slight clarification:  Any area attack that destroys the center torso leaves a 'Mech unsalvageable.  This includes artillery, aerospace bombing, nuclear strikes, and orbital attacks.  Those last two are slightly obvious when you think about it, though.  :D

[pensiveswetness]

That's the Mech turned into Confetti effect (or the legs are only this standing because they are all solid fused structures now) :D

[Simon Landmine]

That's the Mech turned into Confetti effect (or the legs are only this standing because they are all solid fused structures now) :D

The 'Ozymandias Effect' ("Look on my legs, ye mighty, and giggle worryingly")

[Sacamano]

Interesting idea of only 1 roll with all the penalties per phase.

[garhkal]

The part that sucks is that you have to make THREE checks at a 10+ to stay standing.  Each penalty causes a separate roll, with the modifiers for all effects.

Once the Physical attack phase comes around the modifiers all apply again, with the 20+ damage modifier "resetting" every phase.  So if you take 25 points of weapon damage in the weapon attack phase, but only 10 damage in the physical attack phase, you do not apply the +1 for 20+ points of damage.

NOTE:  These modifiers only apply if you are doing something that requires a piloting skill check.  Let's say you have that damaged actuator and gyro crit, but only suffer 15 points of damage in the weapon attack phase, you do not require ANY piloting skill checks, because nothing has caused you to make a piloting skill check.

Gamer's Note:  I know a LOT of groups do not play with the standard rules.  In my group, we only make 1 roll with all the penalties per phase.  Otherwise some games turn in to DominoTech, with nothing but 'Mechs falling over everywhere, and that's not fun.

I've played in many games where the person running it, had you make 1 roll for each thing, BUT only applying the penalties UP to that point.  So in the first place you took 30 total damage in the weapons phase.  So PSR at 6 (5 piloting score +1 for 20+ damage).  Then you get a crit hit on a lower leg actuator at 30 points of damage, so now you are 5+1+1 for a 2nd PSR at a 7. 
Now in the phys phase, you got hit by a hatchet in the CT for 14 damage which got a Crit on your Gyro..  So thats a third PSR for 5 base +1 (you have the leg actuator hit) and +3 (the gyro hit), for a PSR needed of 9 or better..

[Mattlov]

Yeah, I haven't seen many people ever play by the actual rules before.  I've always played the single roll way.

[Sartris]

we do all the rolls. usually, it's one or two. the most i've seen at once is four.