Author Topic: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider  (Read 14249 times)

wantec

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‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« on: 10 March 2017, 22:22:35 »
‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider


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Today we will be covering a ‘Mech that has one of my favorite attributes, it first appeared in MWDA. I know there are some out there who aren’t fond of the game, or its impact on the BattleTech universe, but the game will hold a special place for me as the thing that got me into regular tabletop MWDA and TW play and eventually to my role as a freelance writer today.

 The reason I like units that first appeared in MWDA is seeing how they translate over to TW units and how they appear in a TRO. The Storm Raider’s first (and only) appearance was in the Falcon’s Prey set. It came as two unique ‘Mechs, both a part of the Dragon’s Fury faction. At the time, the unique figures came with a dossier card giving a small bit of background. While in the hands of a pro-Combine faction, the Storm Raider had Lyran origins.

One benefit (and drawback) to those dossier cards is that they provided a lot of the big details about a unit’s design. The tonnage, engine type, speed, armor type, structure type, and weapons were all listed on those cards. As a player of MWDA it was great to see all that info in a format that the rest of the BT universe would recognize. Unfortunately, this also tended to tie the hands of the folks at Catalyst when it came to translate those stats into TRO and recordsheet formats. The Targe was one example of this. Probably the most notorious example was the Shadow Cat II with a Gauss Rifle that leaves the 60-tonner with just over 100 points of armor, roughly the same amount as the 25-ton lighter Storm Raider R3 and R4.

It was truly a work of art and creative writing to explain how some of these lesser variants made it into production enough to become a notable unit, yet provide units that players would still want to use (or at least try to use). In the case of the Storm Raider, the R1 and R2 variants were detailed on the dossier cards. These two may not be amazing new creations, but they work as run of the mill light ‘Mechs for mercenary and militia forces.

First conceived by Defiance Industries as a light striker/urban defense unit and challenger to the Hollander, the Storm Raider struggles to meet any of those three criteria. The design was eventually licensed out to Coventry Metal Works, producers of the Hollander, in hopes of recouping some of the investment costs. It has found a limited role as a light picket ‘Mech in combat units, but it gained popularity on Solaris VII.

Looking at the Storm Raider in detail it’s easy to see why it struggled on the battlefield, but found a role on Solaris. It’s a 35-ton design, with an Endo Steel chassis and an XL engine. That sounds like a great start, but in the minds of many it fails to advance beyond that. Every one of the Storm Raider’s four variants uses a 210-rated engine, good enough for 6/9 movement, but not good enough for most light ‘Mechs. The R1 and R2 variants use 5 tons of standard armor, good for 80 points (67% coverage). The R3 ups this by 2 tons to 112 points (94% coverage) and the R4 maxes out the armor and switches to impact-resistant armor.

I can see you thinking, all the variants scrimped in speed, and some on armor as well, that must mean the Storm Raider spends a lot of tonnage on some great weapons. The answer is sort of. It spends the tonnage (17, 15, 13, and 13 respectively), but not in the best manner. The R1 uses its 17 tons for an AC/10, a ton of ammo, and a mace. For those that don’t know the mace works like a bigger, heavier hatchet, but instead of the hatchet’s -1 to-hit, the mace has a +1, but on the Storm Raider it hits for 9 damage instead of the hatchet’s 7 damage. And if the attack misses, the attacker must make a PSR with a +2 modifier. I can see how Defiance’s designers thought this might work well against the Hollander in a one-on-one matchup, the Hollander is much more useful on the battlefield.

The R2 variant appears to be an attempt to fix the deficiencies of the R1, without making drastic changes to the ‘Mech. The AC/10 is traded for a UAC/5, now with 2 tons of ammo, CASE, and MASC is added. This attempts to address the in-between speed and adds range to the autocannon without changing the potential maximum damage output. While this version lacks the concentrated punch and ability to use specialty ammo, the speed and range benefits are worth the trade-off in my mind.

Following in the footsteps of its predecessor, the R3 again trades damage concentration, this time to increase the armor coverage. Gone in the UAC/5 in favor of a RAC/2, but only a single ton of ammo. While I usually prefer more ammo for a RAC/2 the somewhat limited ammo supply should discourage pilots from sticking around too long on the battlefield.

The last version appears to be geared more towards the arenas of Solaris VII, trading the MASC for impact-resistant armor. The armor reduces by 1/3rd the damage from any physical attacks (punches, charges, hatchet attacks) and falls. Against any other attack it acts like normal armor. Out on the open battlefields, speed is life for a light ‘Mech pilot, but in the arenas, battles often end up at bad breath distances. In the arenas, trading the speed benefits of MASC on the Storm Raider for the improved armor is a worthwhile trade-off.

 
 

Now that I’ve done a good job of showing why so many people passed over the Storm Raider I’m gonna explain how and why you should use it. In a light ‘Mech lance, the R1 can be used as a bodyguard for slow fire-support units. Most things that hunt your fire support aren’t going to like facing down a 10-point hit and a 9-point physical attack. The R2 and R3 can work as underpowered fire-support units themselves, with the R3 better able to generate multiple clusters of damage. With their MASC and longer range, the R2 and R3 can essentially keep up with short-ranged 7/11 and 8/12 lances, since rarely will such lances be running in a straight line the whole battle. The R4 will work best in duels and tight battlefields where its close enough to make use of its armor benefits and the slower speed won’t hurt as much.

Campaign Operations added Special Pilot Abilities for TW play and I’ve selected a few I think work well with the Storm Raider. The Cluster Hitter SPA (pg. 73) allows a player to make an aimed-shot with a cluster weapon and if it hits, all the clusters go to that one location. This ability requires the ‘Mech to remain stationary and it can’t make a physical attack that turn, but with only one weapon, that’s not much of a penalty. The rest of the time cluster weapons get a +1 on the determining cluster hits roll.

Next is the Melee Master SPA (pg. 77). This ability gives a physical attack a -1 to-hit and gives an additional point of damage to a successful hit. It may not seem like much, but this bumps the mace up to 10 points of damage, allowing it to go internal on a head hit for most ‘Mechs. And since the mace has the ability to choose the punch table (like a hatchet does) for a penalty, the -1 to-hit will help offset that somewhat.

The last one is the Swordsman SPA (pg. 80). This allows either an aim-shot with a physical weapon or a piercing attack. The piercing attack allows a ‘Mech with a physical weapon to make an attack with a +2 to-hit modifier. If the attack is successful, it generates a critical-hit chance (in addition to any others from damage).

While these abilities would help any ‘Mech with cluster or melee weapons, I think these particularly help the Storm Raider perform better on the battlefield and in the arena.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #1 on: 10 March 2017, 22:39:42 »
Honestly, the only light mech with a melee weapon that I actually like is the Scarabus, which at least has the speed to insure that it can get into melee range with mechs that aren't insanely more powerful than it is.  The Storm Raider's lack of speed or armor means that it's at a massive disadvantage at close range, especially with the mace's attack penalty.

Personally, this is one of those mechs that I see someone getting stuck in after they've done some sort of colossal screw up (like getting caught in bed with their CO's kid) but they've got just enough political capital to avoid being actually booted.
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #2 on: 10 March 2017, 23:08:30 »
Not a great 'Mech no matter how one tries to look a it.

The Rokurokubi comes to mind as a comparison. A melee weapon, a ballistic weapon, 35-ton light. Its basic model isn't that well liked by players if i recall correctly (because its variant sports a damn ER PPC!). But where the Stormraider wastes tonnage for a mace (increased damage is not worth the weight and hit penalty) and awfully big gun for a light, the Rokurokubi has more manageable sword and LAC/5 with extra ton of ammo for special munitions, more speed, and hardened armor on top of everything.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #3 on: 10 March 2017, 23:35:06 »
Honestly, as with pretty much every melee weapon much that isn't a dedicated TSM in fighter, its the mace that lets this much down.

Now, to be clear, I don't care for slower lights, so that's minus points from the off, but at least this one has the decency to mostly be a ranged support much, which is a reasonable role for such a mech to play. But why on earth would it then mount one of the silliest weapons, the mace, from a family of silly weapons? That tonnage could have easily gone to armor, and or more engine, even a small LRM rack, and turned this from a deplorable mech into a moderately useful one.

That said, the 2 and 3 have just enough range, and power right in that sweet spot between dangerous enough to shoot back at and too little to do any good. I don't hate the RAC 2 as many do, though its no prize, and pulling a MASC run into position and dropping a SRM 6 equivalent from 18 hexes out can be just what it takes to finish a pesky mech.

I still wouldn't pick one, but at least if I were stuck with one, I could use it to some nonzero effect, and the fix would be simple enough.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #4 on: 10 March 2017, 23:53:30 »
Sad thing is that after a new Panther (meh) and a new Firestater (yeah) this would have been the perfect time for a new Commando. Instead we got this weird little dakka mech.
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Terrace

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #5 on: 12 March 2017, 20:14:09 »
So, since this is a Lyran design, I'm gonna take a guess and say that these were at least partially intended to face Clan Lights, right?

...

Yeah, no. Any Light available to the Wolf Empire and Clan Jade Falcon (their most likely opponents when this design was introduced) would eat this thing for a snack and then run off to grab lunch. If I was running a Steiner-contracted merc unit, I'd sooner field half-broken combat vehicles than accept a lance of these walking coffins.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #6 on: 12 March 2017, 20:47:55 »
I just imagined one of these things trying to fight a Wolfen.

Yeah, no. [run away]
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #7 on: 12 March 2017, 21:02:57 »
I just imagined one of these things trying to fight a Wolfen.

Yeah, no. [run away]

Well, any duel between the Wulfen and most other lights is kinda unfair. With Wulfen's mobility, even constrained terrain (eg a canyon, urban area) doesn't really help against it (and Wulfen has jumping config(s?)).

The Storm Raider is one of those 'Mechs where i'd rather take anything else over it. It is can be used if one is stuck with it but...
On the other hand, it can be used as a walking spare part pack...

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #8 on: 12 March 2017, 21:07:13 »
That's why I always thought it was a weird little mech. The fluff mentions the Hollander but it has non of the Hollanders strengths, the Wolfhound is more well rounded to fight other mechs while the Firestarter and Commando loaded with infernos are better equipped for anti-BA/anti-vehicle. It's cheaper than a Hollander but so is the Commando and Firestarter. 

At least it was also fluffed as a disappointment so you know what you are getting :P

I guess Solaris is a better arena for the design (pun attended) but still don't see it doing any better against any other light. I mean. At least the Mjolnir has TSM.
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #9 on: 12 March 2017, 21:27:36 »
BattleTech has always had its share of frankly shit 'Mechs. What they're good for is the OpFor. You know, mooks for heroic players to slaughter.
This is something the Storm Raider does well. It does well being bad... What a stupid sentence, lol.
This the only real use for the Storm Raider i can think off. But even then, i'd respect the players a bit more and use something more interesting to fight against.

CrazyGrasshopper

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #10 on: 12 March 2017, 23:49:15 »
I can theoretically understand a Mace on Mjolnir. A reckless, but interesting concept (which still could be polished). But this thing is useless.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #11 on: 13 March 2017, 00:04:57 »
this guy needs a Plasma Rifle so hard... make it a nightmare to conventional forces
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SteelRaven

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #12 on: 13 March 2017, 00:12:02 »
this guy needs a Plasma Rifle so hard... make it a nightmare to conventional forces

I never thought of that, actual would make it kinda useful for garrison.   
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CrazyGrasshopper

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #13 on: 13 March 2017, 00:14:56 »
this guy needs a Plasma Rifle so hard... make it a nightmare to conventional forces

This could actually work.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #14 on: 13 March 2017, 00:22:03 »
Plasma rifles make things BAD for garrison, unless you're a Kuritan or a Capellan. Given the Storm Raider's MW:DA origins, I wonder if it's meant to be a light scout vehicle hunter. Pepper vehicles with RAC fire and rush right up and gobsmack anything else with the mace. *shrugs*

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #15 on: 13 March 2017, 00:25:30 »
The storm raider just makes me sad. It looks like it walked out of the periphery. It's armed goofy. It can't effectively do anything it sets out to do. It's too fancy for militia duty. Doesn't have enough ammo to try to do anything tricky with its gun. It's only backup plan is to swing a club and hope it doesn't fall down.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #16 on: 13 March 2017, 00:38:27 »
A good pilot won't need to worry about falling down... but why would a good pilot be in this thing?
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #17 on: 13 March 2017, 01:14:22 »
Quote
This is something the Storm Raider does well. It does well being bad... What a stupid sentence, lol.

I like that idea that the Stormraider is like the Mook's mech in a show or game. It would be the one painted in brown, and the commander and Sargent versions would be red and yellow respectively :p

I think the Stormraider's issue is that its weapons don't mix, the RAC is nice for long range nibbles and harassing fire, and its not a Mech you want to get close to someone in.  And yet that big heavy lump of no doubt depleted uranium reinforced metal in its other arm goes "Psst..get close!" 

And with Mech's getting faster the fairly slow Stormraider can now be outrun by more than a few mediums or simply be unable to escape them.

Still I guess it has its uses, Militias would probably be happy to get this thing and it looks kinda cool..I guess...?

Great review though :) 

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #18 on: 13 March 2017, 02:28:28 »
A good pilot won't need to worry about falling down... but why would a good pilot be in this thing?

They were caught sneaking the general's kid back onto base at three in the morning and neither of them was wearing pants.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #19 on: 13 March 2017, 07:19:16 »
So, since this is a Lyran design, I'm gonna take a guess and say that these were at least partially intended to face Clan Lights, right?
Not directly, no.  As the TRO and the MWDA dossiers explain, the Storm Raider was "intended for small-scale surgical strikes and urban defense operations." And the very next sentence in the TRO says, "The ’Mech is terrible at both roles."

So right off the bat we know that it doesn't work well at it's designed roles, either in-universe, or out of it. In fact, it's so well known how poorly the Storm Raider works in it's intended roles, that in the TRO we learn of a battle where a pair of Storm Raiders we used as bait for some Hell's Horses scout vehicles. The rest of the light lance ambushed the the vehicles and destroyed them before they could get a warning out.


Yeah, no. Any Light available to the Wolf Empire and Clan Jade Falcon (their most likely opponents when this design was introduced) would eat this thing for a snack and then run off to grab lunch. If I was running a Steiner-contracted merc unit, I'd sooner field half-broken combat vehicles than accept a lance of these walking coffins.
Since the 'Mech was introduced in the late 3090's, the Wolves aren't a frequent adversary at that point, really it's just the Falcons and Free Worlds League remnants. And with the Falcons, the only new light 'Mech is the Eyrie, that first showed up in 3087. I'm not sure how closely anyone follows battle value, but at 791, the Storm Raider is a little over half the value of an Eyrie (1401). Factor in a Clan pilot and a one-on-one duel is an obvious mismatch, while 2-on-1 is looking more reasonable. With the talons and micro pulse lasers the Eyrie warrior is going to be tempted to get in close, where the Storm Raider pilots can answer back.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #20 on: 13 March 2017, 13:31:39 »
So, given it's a mook, the appropriate user for this would be the GM during the early stages of a new campaign, similar to the Arbiter and other terrible designs?

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #21 on: 13 March 2017, 17:02:03 »
Depends on the GM. If you want red shirts, sure. I do the the ambush idea, though. Use them as fodder in the first battle, then bait for something really nasty in the second. 
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #22 on: 13 March 2017, 17:33:19 »
Its kind of a silly idea but what about using the RAC to partially immobilize vehicles, and then hunting them down and killing them off with the Mace?

Its not a very efficient use of them, but in a city the Impact-Resistant armor of the R4 would help with falls from overzealous running to get into ambush positions.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #23 on: 13 March 2017, 20:01:25 »
Great minds think alike, Maelwys. I think I would still prefer the MASC to the impact resistant armor though.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #24 on: 13 March 2017, 20:25:29 »
I'm looking forward to using this in my Marian Legions, especially the mostly-light IV Legio. It might not be much in the Inner Sphere, but for the Marians, it looks like it should make a good hole puncher for Rocket Launcher units to follow up.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #25 on: 13 March 2017, 20:45:37 »
i had one of these figures in the MWDA game, but never used it. (there were always more interesting designs to use)

to be honest, based on the look of the figure, i'd expected it to be an ICE powered design. it had that kind of industrial-punk look of the Industrial MOD's from the early expansions had.


A good pilot won't need to worry about falling down... but why would a good pilot be in this thing?
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« Last Edit: 13 March 2017, 20:56:54 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #26 on: 14 March 2017, 08:18:47 »
This could be the basis for a Lyran Panther if you replace the RAC with a PPC and the mace with some missiles. You could even one up the Combine by adding a Beagle, Guardian, or TAG.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #27 on: 14 March 2017, 10:37:35 »
I know there are also such mech of the week articles from an Alpha Strike perspective, but I'm gonna chime in here with an Alpha Strike perspective anyway.

That this mech *does* allow you to do is field a scout unit (which becomes relevant in CBT if you use the force building from CO).  Compared to many other scouts in its timeframe, it has acceptable maneuverability and yes firepower.  But it also is pretty survivable compared to many other scout role candidates.  In order to go faster or have better firepower, you tend to need to look at hovertanks or such, and being a mech has its inherent advantages there.

In context of being a Dark Age era scout, it's perfectly acceptable.  (Hell, it's an outright decent unit under Alpha Strike granularity)  If I were a Lyran commander I wouldn't turn them down but schlep them right into my recon units.  I'd probably want some other kinds of scouts too, especially ones with probes, but the Storm Raider is a nice little guy to provide support for those probe-equipped units, *and* keep up with them.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #28 on: 14 March 2017, 11:36:14 »
Are we forgetting doctrine?  When Lyrans deploy a platoon of this battle armor model, they're more respectable.  16 of these could be scary.   :P
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #29 on: 14 March 2017, 13:04:47 »
Are we forgetting doctrine?  When Lyrans deploy a platoon of this battle armor model, they're more respectable.  16 of these could be scary.   :P

Which is true, for sure, but that can be said of any Mech. 16 Stalkers is scarier than one. 16 Dervishes are scarier than one. 16 Targes... er... ok, exception to every rule, fine.

Point is, if the only way to make it scary is to deploy it in numbers, why would the Lyrans not just say 'thanks, but no' and invest in more Hollanders? A company of Hollanders is enough to make even the bravest Clanner kick up his heels back to his LZ.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #30 on: 14 March 2017, 13:37:39 »
A thought occurred to me. A single hit from an -R3's RAC, followed by a whack from the mallet or a buddy -R1's AC will auto kill the vast majority of medium battlesuits out there.

There's gotta be something we can do with that.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #31 on: 14 March 2017, 13:40:24 »
Which is true, for sure, but that can be said of any Mech. 16 Stalkers is scarier than one. 16 Dervishes are scarier than one. 16 Targes... er... ok, exception to every rule, fine.

Point is, if the only way to make it scary is to deploy it in numbers, why would the Lyrans not just say 'thanks, but no' and invest in more Hollanders? A company of Hollanders is enough to make even the bravest Clanner kick up his heels back to his LZ.

Yeah, the "deploy it in much larger numbers than other mechs" thing only works if there's some sort of special thing about the mech that makes it somehow easier to flood battlefields with, and that's never really been something that the BTU has had.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #32 on: 14 March 2017, 14:01:30 »
 :-\  I was mostly trying to make a "Lyran Battlearmor" joke.  That joke doesn't really work for Stalkers or even Dervishes.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #33 on: 14 March 2017, 14:35:14 »
The joke is kinda old and not funny. :P
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #34 on: 14 March 2017, 14:40:08 »
:-\  I was mostly trying to make a "Lyran Battlearmor" joke.  That joke doesn't really work for Stalkers or even Dervishes.

Misunderstood it- I blame the lobotomy they did when they bumped me to admin around here. (Seriously, allen wrenches HURT). Carry on!
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #35 on: 16 March 2017, 02:05:37 »
This is the Lyran Urbie 2.0 project . . .

Not sure where someone was getting that in the 3100s ammo for Plasma Rifles should be rare outside of the CC, but this thing would have been better off as urban defense using a Plasma Rifle- one of the lightest 10 point hits and its useful in the other manners.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #36 on: 16 March 2017, 03:57:15 »
Dude, I would not want the mech in charge of defending the city I lived in to be packing a plasma weapon.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #37 on: 16 March 2017, 08:49:30 »

Dude, I would not want the mech in charge of defending the city I lived in to be packing a plasma weapon.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #38 on: 16 March 2017, 10:03:26 »
There's another thing I've just remembered.  Isn't the Stormraider basically made kind of useless by the earlier MLR-B2 Mjolnir?

Its lighter, its got a standard engine and HS, and has TSM and can jump.  So...*looks at the Stormy* Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy....?
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #39 on: 16 March 2017, 12:21:19 »
[social general]My dear boy, why would a gentleman live in a city, crammed tight with the unwashed masses of the hoi polloi?  All the real gentlemen live in country estates surrounded by several hundred meters of cleared fire zone.  [/social general][/size] :)

But what happens when it burns down all the fine dining establishments?  Am I expected to hold my business lunches at a restaurant that rates a mere three stars?
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #40 on: 16 March 2017, 12:33:27 »
There's another thing I've just remembered.  Isn't the Stormraider basically made kind of useless by the earlier MLR-B2 Mjolnir?

Its lighter, its got a standard engine and HS, and has TSM and can jump.  So...*looks at the Stormy* Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy....?

Probably someone looked at the Mjolnir and said "Its nice, but it can't hit anyone at long range, what can we do about that?"

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #41 on: 16 March 2017, 12:43:49 »
There's another thing I've just remembered.  Isn't the Stormraider basically made kind of useless by the earlier MLR-B2 Mjolnir?

Its lighter, its got a standard engine and HS, and has TSM and can jump.  So...*looks at the Stormy* Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy....?

Social General looked at the Mjolnir and thought "Needs to be bigger."
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #42 on: 16 March 2017, 13:17:18 »
But what happens when it burns down all the fine dining establishments?  Am I expected to hold my business lunches at a restaurant that rates a mere three stars?
What, you've got no personal chef?  You must only be a Hauptmann.




Ok, ok, we should probably stop.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #43 on: 16 March 2017, 14:08:23 »
Social General looked at the Mjolnir and thought "Needs to be bigger."
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #44 on: 16 March 2017, 14:18:21 »
Thus the Berserker

Wait. That would mean someone looked at the Berserker and said "You know, we need a midget version of this."

I can only assume that person was executed by Atlas-stomp for his un-Lyran thinking.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #45 on: 16 March 2017, 14:34:04 »
So, humor aside, the Storm Raider is best as either a dueling 'mech or a garrison/militia 'mech?

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #46 on: 16 March 2017, 14:44:53 »
I am not sure its a dueling mech either, unless your plans for the duel are blindman's bluff with each pilot just swinging the mace around hoping to hit.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #47 on: 16 March 2017, 14:50:33 »
So, humor aside, the Storm Raider is best as either a dueling 'mech or a garrison/militia 'mech?

I'd say it's quite usabe as a unit meant to add some ranged firepower and/or teeth to a recon lance.  It doesn't carry fancy electronics, but it can keep up with and help bodyguard those units that do.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #48 on: 16 March 2017, 15:21:57 »
I tried theory crafting with Storm Raider when it appeared in TRO, removing the mace and AC for a SRM setup to make it a 35 ton Commando. The Wolfhound is already the better 35 ton energy boat though I never thought of a Plasma Rifle until it was mentioned above.     
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #49 on: 16 March 2017, 15:25:41 »
So long as it has Hunchbacks or King Crabs in front that are distracting enough that no one will notice the poor Storm Raiders, up until their ACs start getting crits. The mace is for pounding dents out of the big mech's armor, or opening a victory keg post battle.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #50 on: 16 March 2017, 15:33:45 »
You could use it to bodyguard a low-end firesupport lance.  Things like Valkyries and Whitworths that would be in trouble if the enemy got in close.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #51 on: 16 March 2017, 17:26:52 »
BattleTech is known to have it's winner and loser of designs, where their not suppose to be spectacular and allow others get more attention.
Storm Raider i think was simply not designed for our game.  I suspect A game designer for MWDA came up with cool looking figure, came with descent (i don't know, I've not used a dial for this thing in years.) dial for it while putting on random stats on the figure. I've heard they did use HMPro for some of them, but not all of them.  I think Storm Raider is victim of that.

Given how the design was born into age of Battlemechs are rare beasts outside the military that limited it's numbers of Mechs to 2 mechs out every 4 vehicles if the Novels were to be believed. The Raider should have been out production when 3145 range in New Years.   I think perhaps it could be interesting design in Solaris, but it barely i think a Raider or a harasser.

I remember reading a member of Stormhammers (republic splinter group) used one these Mechs during the attacks against then invading Jade Falcons into Perfecture XI (9) on their way to Skye.   I thought was funny MechWarrior raised his Hammer yelling over comes "Cowabunga!".

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #52 on: 16 March 2017, 22:04:56 »
I am curious if anyone has played the R1 in a game of AS?  A Clint or Gladius would provide faster and lighter weight platforms to get the AC special out on the board, but the Storm Raider would be a lower cost to throw out alternate munitions. 

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #53 on: 16 March 2017, 22:30:59 »
I am curious if anyone has played the R1 in a game of AS?  A Clint or Gladius would provide faster and lighter weight platforms to get the AC special out on the board, but the Storm Raider would be a lower cost to throw out alternate munitions.

I'd sooner pick the R3, despite the higher cost.  But R1 specifically?  It benefits from AS's system of PV only paying what the unit can do.  It's a cheap, low end mech.  Good news though, you don't pay much.  This mech, much like Kurita's comparable Rokurokubi, greatly benefit from the traslation to AS.

There was a joke about the Storm Raider being Lyran Battlearmor upthread.... well guess what else costs the same PV as a Storm Raider R1? A squad of clan elementals.   It's a lightweight, but you pay lightweight prices.  It's cheap enough in PV to deploy en masse, even if you can't do so to the same degree in BV.

TL;DR: it's the Scorpion tank of mechs.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2017, 22:42:35 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #54 on: 16 March 2017, 23:00:29 »
TL;DR: it's the Scorpion tank of mechs.

Except for being expensive. Though you just gave me an idea.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #55 on: 16 March 2017, 23:31:04 »
Except for being expensive. Though you just gave me an idea.

Expensive? It's pretty cheap in BV, PV, or even SPs.  Cbill pricing isn't a thing anymore... because for example listed prices for XL engines are from when they were put together by hand by grad students at NAIS.  By the time the Storm Raider is walking off the producrion lines during the 32nd century, XL and even XXL engines are being much more cheaply mass produced....

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #56 on: 16 March 2017, 23:41:35 »
Got an official source for that? People keep SAYING that.....but none of it turns up in the crunch.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #57 on: 16 March 2017, 23:46:38 »
C-Bills are fluff, not crunch, if I recall correctly. You only pay for the XL in BV2, unless you balance by C-Bills (Which honestly is a bad idea, especially with how many crappy XL-engined Mechs there are).

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #58 on: 16 March 2017, 23:47:05 »
Got an official source for that? People keep SAYING that.....but none of it turns up in the crunch.

Because TPTB took Cbill pricing out of the crunch.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #59 on: 16 March 2017, 23:51:50 »
Cbill pricing isn't a thing anymore...

Not exactly. There are a great many reasons why c-bill cost shouldn't mean what it used to, but a standard engine is still inherently less complicated and easier to produce than an extralight engine. A fuel cell even less so, though one might have to make the storm raider bigger to pull off near same performance.

Quote
because for example listed prices for XL engines are from when they were put together by hand by grad students at NAIS. 

The quote you're thinking of was referring to the XXL engine, not the XL. The XL was in production for decades using the same cost calculations. Heck, centuries if you include the Star League and swap Star League Dollars for C-Bills.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #60 on: 16 March 2017, 23:55:57 »
Because TPTB took Cbill pricing out of the crunch.

How much of that was because of not dealing with cost calculations and how much of was because the C-Bill ceased to be a viable currency in universe AND they didn't want to deal with cost calcuations that would need an exchange rate table to make any sense?  :D
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #61 on: 16 March 2017, 23:57:00 »
C-Bills were removed from the TROs before the Dark Age.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #62 on: 16 March 2017, 23:59:09 »
C-Bills were removed from the TROs before the Dark Age.

CBills were in the TROs? I never noticed.

Though my point about cbills being a bad investment still kinda holds in the jihad as well. The economy was a mess. Plus all this new tech was going from the labs to production... It was a bad time to try to figure out Blue Book values.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #63 on: 17 March 2017, 00:06:51 »
How much of that was because of not dealing with cost calculations and how much of was because the C-Bill ceased to be a viable currency in universe AND they didn't want to deal with cost calcuations that would need an exchange rate table to make any sense?  :D

And how much of it was not wanting to deal with evolving commonality of equipment over the many eras of the BTU?

Granted, a SFE will always be cheaper than the more complex options of the same eras, but *how much* cheaper will of course vary.  When prices were being given they were pegged to the 3025 universe where even SFEs were so rarely available no matter what the price, and lostech may as well have been magic items ala D&D.  Yes, granted, the SL era sources gave the same prices for fusion engines when civilan motorcars had fusion engines as in the Succession Wars when most tanks had to make do with ICE. But they never should have. Rather than going back and "fixing it", or even giving new prices for inventions new to the 31st century to reflect a century or so of refinement, TPTB are taking the (imo smart) decision to just drop the whole concept of monetary cost from actual game rules. 
« Last Edit: 17 March 2017, 00:09:20 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #64 on: 17 March 2017, 00:07:19 »
You guys haven't looked at Combat Operations yet, have you? All prices in there are done by cbills.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #65 on: 17 March 2017, 00:53:51 »
You guys haven't looked at Combat Operations yet, have you? All prices in there are done by cbills.

You talking about page 14?  If so, that's pretty abstract still.  No difference in price between say a Wasp and a Wolfhound.  And unless they errata'd it, it appears that XXL engines are as cheap as SFEs because they omitted a multiplier for it :D

I'd also point to the budget for buying forces on page 12 to support certain tech becoming "cheaper" to produce in some eras compared to others.  If you do a campaign set during the 1st Star League, rather than saying fusion engines are twice as easy to make/cost half as much to acquire, you have twice as much "buying power".   Makes more sense than saying mercs start with more or less money based on era, at any rate.

Decoy

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #66 on: 17 March 2017, 01:50:09 »
pg. 10 Combat Operations

Quote
While different currencies are used in different eras, C-bills
are used throughout the Force Construction rules as a matter
of compatibility with other core rulebooks. Players may convert
them into currencies suiting their era and faction after Force
creation is complete.

Pg 12 Combat Operations

Quote
This step is straightforward: the controlling player rolls to see
if a unit can be acquired, and then spends money from their final
budget calculated in Stage 2. The Master Unit List, or MUL, is an
online resource for BattleTech available at MasterUnitList.info and
lists costs for most combat units. That resource should be consulted
first when purchasing units. If a cost for desired personnel or
equipment is not listed in that database, it may be calculated
using the construction rules in TechManual, Tactical Operations,
and Strategic Operations, and found in the equipment lists in A
Time of War.


It then goes on to use that the more abstract method can be used if wished. However, going back to page 10, everything is done in C-Bills.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2017, 01:53:56 by Decoy »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #67 on: 17 March 2017, 02:20:35 »
It also goes on to say that you can also use the chart on page 14.  Ergo, there is no single price tag that is the only correct price anymore if you're measuring in Cbills.  And circling back, TPTB don't even put Cbill prices on units anymore, like with the Storm Raider's MUL entry.  Rather than rendering the TM obsolete, they're just acknowledging you can still use it if you want to.

I feel like we're arguing over a point of semantics that's tangental to the thread.  As a peace offering, I'll concede that c-bills are still an alternative available to SPs or WPs.  I'll also agree with Liam's Ghost in that a SFE Storm Raider would be cheaper than the given XL model.

I'm going to still insist however that in the 32nd century the Storm Raider is cheaper than it would have been had it been built in 3025.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2017, 02:23:42 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #68 on: 17 March 2017, 02:23:02 »
Now I'm picturing this terrible mismatch of units.  Charger, Targe, Storm Raider, and an Urbie all walk into a bar together...it would be a really weird lance to put together but it could be fun(ny) as hell.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Storm Raider
« Reply #69 on: 17 March 2017, 06:47:03 »
Wait. That would mean someone looked at the Berserker and said "You know, we need a midget version of this."

I can only assume that person was executed by Atlas-stomp for his un-Lyran thinking.
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