Aviation Pictures Part Trois

[Bren]

[Sharpnel]

WTH? and it's wearing Canadian markings, too.

[Feenix74]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84  O0

[ANS Kamas P81]

Amusingly, we've gone right back to the light armed helicopter as a scout...just, as a drone.  Behold the easiest paint job on any model kit ever!  One wonders just how effective an RAH-66Q might have been...

Also it wasn't just weapon employment on the Predator, but the thing's very existence doing the same job as a recon chopper with better endurance and no risk to its pilot.  Once the Predators had weapons, at their price point and lack of human risk, the Comanche (and also the Kiowa, as seen below) was doomed anyway.  Like I said, not the killer, but the technology was a big nail in the coffin.

And now, a quick stop over the night skies of Paris.

God that's fantastic.

Yeah...she had a bit of everything, didn't she? And she was FAST...her top speed was over 60 mph faster than the Apache's...and range? She had over FOUR TIMES the range of the Apache...Not quite the service ceiling, but close...

She was a sexy well built amazon warrior...too bad she never got to prove herself...

Yeah.  And in addition to all of the above, the damn thing could fly backwards while maintaining a flat azimuth.  Six stations for "all the rockets ever" or packs of TOW missiles would have been hilarious, especially if she'd have been given Hellfire as an upgrade like the Apache did.  Add in the wicked accuracy of that 30mm cannon...honestly it was the Air Force and Army fighting over its fixed wings that doomed it.

The loss of a pilot was IMO entirely secondary but jumped on as a reason; the entire incident stunk.  The 'half-p hop' rotor oscillation was known, and safety systems were built into the helicopter to prevent it.  When the accident happened, those safety systems were explicitly disabled and removed, and the aircraft was repeatedly forced into a flight envelope designed specifically to generate the situation.  It's the equivalent of deciding a car is unsafe to drive when you put a test driver in the car, disable the brakes, then test it to see how quickly it can stop before it crashes into a wall at high speed.

pictured: all the rockets ever

[Fat Guy]

Let's not forget the other tiltwings.

The Vertol VZ-2:



The Hiller X-18:



The LTV XC-142:

[HobbesHurlbut]

ooooh a four engine tilt wing.

[Easy]

[Scroll Up For Eye Candy]

And now, a quick stop over the night skies of Paris.

Nominated for the top 10 'night skies over the city'.

[Easy]

What happens when you leave pilot-engineers alone in a hangar with a crop duster and a Bell-47 for too long?

The Vertol VZ-2: What We Did With Your G.I. Bill.


But it didn't go fast enough, thus version 4.

[ColBosch]

Amusingly, we've gone right back to the light armed helicopter as a scout...just, as a drone.  Behold the easiest paint job on any model kit ever!  One wonders just how effective an RAH-66Q might have been...

That's not a drone. That's the result of a sand storm.

[hoosierhick]

The CL-84 is fun to fly.   ;D

[SethsMatches]

Really enjoying the pics

Would like to add this bush rugged little 'red falcon' to the ensemble: The Denel Rooivalk

[JadeHellbringer]

Get off my lawn, you little bastards.

[I am Belch II]

Something different about a all white paint job on a helicopter.
A paint job i can actually do!!!

[Kidd]

Really enjoying the pics

Would like to add this bush rugged little 'red falcon' to the ensemble: The Denel Rooivalk

For a moment there I thought the Religious Phone Company had come a-calling :D

I always had a soft spot for the Rooivalk, does anybody know why it never got the export sales it wanted?

[HobbesHurlbut]

Remind me a little of that painting commissioned to showcase 2 navalized Apache in two separate scenes.

[Fat Guy]

There were actually 2 different proposals for a navalized Apache:

[Sharpnel]

There were actually 2 different proposals for a navalized Apache:

This one looks more like the British Lynx than an Apache with the exception of the engine pods.

[SethsMatches]

I always had a soft spot for the Rooivalk, does anybody know why it never got the export sales it wanted?

Haven't found anything official but anecdotes/theories I've read largely fall under "Politics" and rather buying from an established/known vendor ('Devil you know over Devil you don't' was my impression.)

[Kidd]

There were actually 2 different proposals for a navalized Apache:

This IS pretty much naval Apache, and reportedly the Brits are quite pleased with it:

[glitterboy2098]

Haven't found anything official but anecdotes/theories I've read largely fall under "Politics" and rather buying from an established/known vendor ('Devil you know over Devil you don't' was my impression.)

yah.. until the last few decades south africa had some real global public opinion problems due to certain political issues, and while that has largely changed in recent years, it takes time to get people interested in your stuff. especially since they had to play catch up with much of the rest of the world in some areas of technology, and most of what they have to offer so far is either niche market items , or lower budget alternatives to far more recognizable items. (like the Rooivalk being a rough equivalent to the AH-64 Apache, and competing with modernized AH-1 Cobra's)

on the otherhand, without those political issues, it is likely they wouldn't have had to devote so much effort into developing domestic military gear in the first place, since the global public opinion problems kept them from being able to just buy from the exiting american or european options.

i figure in a few decades they'll find some buyers for their stuff.

[Feenix74]

Australian Department of Defence took a long and serious look at the Denel Rooivalk but in the end went with the Eurocopter Tiger instead



Here is a article on why it has not been as successful as it could have been: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1/rep_id:4136

[JadeHellbringer]

Oh man... Tiger is amazing. I got to see one of those a few years ago at an airshow at Patuxent River NAS (courtesy of a visit from the Luftwaffe). Very impressive performance overall anyway (particularly in comparison to the tame fly-back-and-forth-a-few-times made by a Marine AH-1Z). Even pulled an Immelman, which was quite the sight. But the highlight? At one point near the end, the crazy bastard started barrel-rolling.

Three times.

In an attack helicopter.

Now, that's not very useful in a combat situation, but as an aerobatic machine I'm sold on Tiger being second to none.

[Weirdo]

Get off my lawn, you little bastards.

I have GOT to learn how to paint that...

[HobbesHurlbut]

There were actually 2 different proposals for a navalized Apache:

That's the same subject. What I remember was an artwork from a little book from a series about weapons, that book was all about Apache. I had another one that was all about B-17. And another about Supermarine Spitfire.

That artwork depicts those sketches with color and weather effect (the bottom one with the stormy sky and a lightning strike in the background).

[SethsMatches]

Here is a article on why it has not been as successful as it could have been: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1/rep_id:4136

And here's an article with more recent developments if people are curious:

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38986:denel-exploring-rooivalk-programme-restart&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107

[I am Belch II]

Love the photo with the Battleship in the back ground.

[Kidd]

Australian Department of Defence took a long and serious look at the Denel Rooivalk but in the end went with the Eurocopter Tiger instead



Here is a article on why it has not been as successful as it could have been: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1/rep_id:4136

Very good article, thanks.

What a pity. IIRC the Canucks were looking at the Rooivalk too, and I can think of a couple other 3rd-world nations who would have bought it if it had delivered on time.

[Deadborder]

Get off my lawn, you little bastards.

Again, Jade Falcon Lamprey

[Feenix74]

Oh man... Tiger is amazing. I got to see one of those a few years ago at an airshow at Patuxent River NAS (courtesy of a visit from the Luftwaffe). Very impressive performance overall anyway (particularly in comparison to the tame fly-back-and-forth-a-few-times made by a Marine AH-1Z). Even pulled an Immelman, which was quite the sight. But the highlight? At one point near the end, the crazy bastard started barrel-rolling.

Three times.

In an attack helicopter.

Now, that's not very useful in a combat situation, but as an aerobatic machine I'm sold on Tiger being second to none.

Unfortunately, it has been less than amazing for us. They were meant to achieve FOC (Final Operational Capability) in 2009 but finally achieved FOC last year (with caveats in a few capability areas that will probably mean that Tiger will never achieve all the operational requirements that were originally set for it). This meant that when we had a big presence in Uruzgan Province, Afghanistan 5+ years ago we had to rely on the Dutch with their Apaches to provide rotary-wing CAS for the Australian task group instead of being able to send our Tiger ARHs. Serviceability rates were so low that the pilots were struggling to get 150 hours of flying time a year to keep current and qualified on them.

Current plan is to actually retire them early instead of doing a mid-life upgrade (that would have probaby seen them finally meet all their original operational requirements) and look at replacing them from mid-2020 onwards.

[Feenix74]

Oops forgot to include a picture, being an aviation picture thread and all . . .