Author Topic: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?  (Read 5347 times)

grimlock1

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What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« on: 18 October 2017, 00:32:06 »
I know TacOps spells out the rules on page 172.  You have to destroy an "interior row."  That's a bit fuzzier for the Wyrm than the Rattler...

But back on topic.  Who has had a Rattler, Wyrm or other combat mobile structure on the table?  Who has killed one of the things, and how did you do it?
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Frabby

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #1 on: 18 October 2017, 02:56:22 »
No actual gametable experience here, but I reckon ArtilleryMechs (with ample ammunition) should be able to whack them from a safe distance. Tube artillery should be fine, though Arrow IV with TAG looks like a viable option.
The rules don't (to my knowledge) require the artillery unit to set up and thus allow it to fire on the move, which should allow the artillery unit to evade any counterbattery fire from the mobile structure. A 'Mech has superior mobility, but any artillery vehicle will do in a pinch.
Bring a spotter VTOL and a couple of J-27s.
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Mendrugo

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #2 on: 18 October 2017, 05:29:46 »
I read one account of success using fast APCs to deliver infantry to the underside of the Rattler, at which point they breached an access port and fought a boarding action against the crew, rather than trying to batter it to scrap from outside.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

snewsom2997

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #3 on: 18 October 2017, 15:19:38 »
On the table top, figure massed Artillery, Arrow Missiles, Cruise Missiles, Ortillery, or a nuke booby trapped drone mech. You are basically reducing a fortress at this point.

You might be able to get away with using a BV Balanced Massed swarm of bug mechs, 15k BV gets you a whole Battalion of Stingers, Wasps, or Locusts

In RPG Setting, it's just a giant building to gain access to and blow up. Don't think you are going to swarm a Rattler to death using TacOps rules, outside of sending multiple Ghost Bear Claws Clusters against the thing.


Mendrugo

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #4 on: 18 October 2017, 19:27:34 »
I think in that case they were using the ship boarding action rules from BattleSpace, calculating Marine Points.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

glitterboy2098

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #5 on: 18 October 2017, 22:41:25 »
honestly, i kinda wish they'd get around to converting mobile structures and other large craft to Alpha Strike.. given the sheer size of the battles you'd need to bring one down, Alpha's Strike's more large battle friendly ruleset would be more attractive for such things.

grimlock1

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #6 on: 19 October 2017, 02:11:23 »
I read one account of success using fast APCs to deliver infantry to the underside of the Rattler, at which point they breached an access port and fought a boarding action against the crew, rather than trying to batter it to scrap from outside.

Given how armored and armed they are, I expect that similar methods would be the best way to disable the various gun emplacements associated with a Castle Brian?

I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
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phoenixalpha

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #7 on: 19 October 2017, 06:45:41 »
Surely the answer is tactical nuclear weapons. If something like that is blocking your way - you get the hell out of dodge, call for nuclear backup and avoid its slow moving backside until it arrives and when the nuke comes to you, stand off, fire and forget.  >:D

Col Toda

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #8 on: 19 October 2017, 06:57:39 »
Pepper one Side with artillery see if you can reduce weapons then storm building in maxums and 16 tons of Battle Armor each . Less time than using Artillery to reduce the whole thing and more legal than nuking it . With the upside if captured you can salvage it.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #9 on: 19 October 2017, 08:25:07 »
Surely the answer is tactical nuclear weapons. If something like that is blocking your way - you get the hell out of dodge, call for nuclear backup and avoid its slow moving backside until it arrives and when the nuke comes to you, stand off, fire and forget.  >:D

A little messy of a solution though, if you have concerns about things like 'collateral damage' or 'using the land again for a few hundred years'.
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phoenixalpha

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #10 on: 19 October 2017, 10:27:25 »
jeez... mention nukes and everyone gets all *upset* :)

ok... orbital bombardment if that makes everyone feel warm & fuzzy :) dropship in orbit.. drops a couple of hundred kilos of metal out the door or somesuch. no issue with nasty radiation etc. there may be some collateral damage but hey... eggs and omelettes.

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #11 on: 19 October 2017, 11:41:18 »
Well, if the anti-aircraft defenses can be breached or jammed (ECM ghosting), dedicated bombers could deliver some serious air drop fuel booms or regular bombs while artillery battalion of Tubed or Arrow type vehicle start spouting enough ammo to get by the AMS defenses.

I think the bombers maybe better.  Torrent and the House Steiner Handbook's AB-18C "Roubvogel" Aerobombers. Their cheap and they could wreck havoc until you get your bigger more expensive Aerospace units lined up to take care of business.,

Pocket Warship from orbit always option but not a great one since you need good spotter,  mobile structure isn't that fast, so "could" get thru before being shot down. 
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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #12 on: 19 October 2017, 12:01:54 »
Pocket Warship from orbit always option but not a great one since you need good spotter...

Absolutely incorrect. TAG can help, but a spotter is in no way required for any kind of orbital shot.
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Mendrugo

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #13 on: 19 October 2017, 12:04:21 »
One lower tech option would be to repurpose the 'Mech Traps (deep pits with concealed covers) from the McCarron's armored cavalry.  Dig out an area the size of a standard BBC gravel quarry (watching out for any Time Lords filming on location), cover it with sheet metal and a layer of sod, and then bait the mobile structure to drive that way.  Should be pretty spectacular once its center of gravity goes over the rim of the pit.

Just hope they don't start wondering about the new ski hill nearby.  ;)
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #14 on: 19 October 2017, 12:31:44 »
Absolutely incorrect. TAG can help, but a spotter is in no way required for any kind of orbital shot.

...didn't you miss a planet you were bombarding once?  ;D
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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #15 on: 19 October 2017, 13:07:53 »
Nah, just the table. :)
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SCC

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #16 on: 19 October 2017, 15:51:25 »
honestly, i kinda wish they'd get around to converting mobile structures and other large craft to Alpha Strike.. given the sheer size of the battles you'd need to bring one down, Alpha's Strike's more large battle friendly ruleset would be more attractive for such things.
Not really needed, on your standard 2 by 2 postage stamp of a game board I'd reckon that a Destrier has a good shot at defeating a Rattler

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #17 on: 19 October 2017, 19:39:25 »
Not really needed, on your standard 2 by 2 postage stamp of a game board I'd reckon that a Destrier has a good shot at defeating a Rattler
I'd like to see that fight.  I would think you need more than on Destrier thou.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #18 on: 19 October 2017, 19:49:22 »
was more thinking that a Rattler or similar would be given at least a company's worth of guards, it not more. factoring in vehicles and infantry, you could be looking at a battalion on a battalion battle easily.

idea weenie

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #19 on: 19 October 2017, 20:06:23 »
One lower tech option would be to repurpose the 'Mech Traps (deep pits with concealed covers) from the McCarron's armored cavalry.  Dig out an area the size of a standard BBC gravel quarry (watching out for any Time Lords filming on location), cover it with sheet metal and a layer of sod, and then bait the mobile structure to drive that way.  Should be pretty spectacular once its center of gravity goes over the rim of the pit.

Just hope they don't start wondering about the new ski hill nearby.  ;)

Wouldn't the lack of support on the leading treads give the crew some indication that the land in front is not safe?  It is only going 10 kph, so when the front treads are over the gravel quarry, the tread sensors should detect that they are at full extension, but there is zero weight on them.  You'd have to dig out where the first three hexes are part of the quarry, but that still leaves the final four hexes on solid land.

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #20 on: 19 October 2017, 20:12:59 »
Well, if you want to go full-on trap, you could reinforce the cover with a trestle underneath, wired with explosives.  Let the Rattler get substantially on the cover (reinforced to support it), then press the switch and detonate the trestle.  Cleanup on aisle six.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Frabby

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #21 on: 20 October 2017, 01:04:51 »
How do you expect to lure a Rattler into your localized trap? You don't kill an aircraft carrier by dropping a sea mine somewhere in its general supposed path.

Given their crawling speed this is a strategic rather than a tactical concern. And I'd expect screening forces that will render any such traps worthless even if they end up on the Rattler's actual planned route.
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SCC

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #22 on: 20 October 2017, 02:57:31 »
I'd like to see that fight.  I would think you need more than on Destrier thou.
The Rattler has only 150 armor and SI per hex, meaning it's not THAT tough on a per hex basis and the Destrier's primary armament is twin LTC, so a hit to any hex will do 20 damage to that hex and 10 to each adjacent hex and once all the armor on a hex is gone it takes double damage, so 12 direct hits will destroy a hex. And when a hex is destroyed all adjacent hexes have their SI reduced by 50% of their starting value, meaning that targeting the central hex and destroying it is about half the job of killing one

Mendrugo

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #23 on: 20 October 2017, 07:38:39 »
How do you expect to lure a Rattler into your localized trap? You don't kill an aircraft carrier by dropping a sea mine somewhere in its general supposed path.

Given their crawling speed this is a strategic rather than a tactical concern. And I'd expect screening forces that will render any such traps worthless even if they end up on the Rattler's actual planned route.

The comment about the ski hill was meant to suggest the concept was generally impractical, overall.  Especially since the Rattler is a defensive installation, not a cross-country mobile oppression palace. 
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #24 on: 20 October 2017, 08:14:16 »
The comment about the ski hill was meant to suggest the concept was generally impractical, overall.  Especially since the Rattler is a defensive installation, not a cross-country mobile oppression palace.

Well, not with THAT attitude, it isn't!  ;)
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SCC

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #25 on: 20 October 2017, 15:40:51 »
Addendum to my above comment (And incidentally the answer to the OP's question): Because of the way the rule about destroyed adjunct hexes works, destroying any two adjunct hexes or any two hexes separated by no more then one intervening hex triggers a chain reaction that destroys the entire structure, mobile or not. Even using the CF per level rule doesn't help that much

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #26 on: 20 October 2017, 15:52:49 »
So... mobile structures shouldn't be built any larger than two hexes in size?

grimlock1

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #27 on: 21 October 2017, 01:50:32 »
Addendum to my above comment (And incidentally the answer to the OP's question): Because of the way the rule about destroyed adjunct hexes works, destroying any two adjunct hexes or any two hexes separated by no more then one intervening hex triggers a chain reaction that destroys the entire structure, mobile or not. Even using the CF per level rule doesn't help that much
So when....
But that means....
Which would...

::headdesk::

And I read the exact same rule.


The Rattler has only 150 armor and SI per hex, meaning it's not THAT tough on a per hex basis and the Destrier's primary armament is twin LTC, so a hit to any hex will do 20 damage to that hex and 10 to each adjacent hex and once all the armor on a hex is gone it takes double damage, so 12 direct hits will destroy a hex. And when a hex is destroyed all adjacent hexes have their SI reduced by 50% of their starting value, meaning that targeting the central hex and destroying it is about half the job of killing one
The double damage thing?  Is that just an arty v buildings rule?


I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

SCC

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #28 on: 21 October 2017, 03:16:17 »
The double damage thing?  Is that just an arty v buildings rule?
No, an Area Effect weapon thing so it also applies to airburst mortar shells, bombs, and mine clearance missile off the top of my head.

And double checking the rule about damaging adjunct hexes when a hex is destroyed I got it wrong, it's half of current CF, but still pretty nasty.

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Re: What does it take to Kill mobile structures?
« Reply #29 on: 21 October 2017, 17:53:55 »
Canonically, another way to kill a Rattler is with a J. Edgar hover tank.  A commander named Roebenood, according to legend, destroyed a huge mobile weapons platform in one battle.  (TRO 3026)
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.