Author Topic: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion  (Read 114014 times)

William J. Pennington

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #60 on: 16 December 2017, 13:41:31 »
Thoughts about the force and the balance.

I think Luke cutting himself off from the force had some serious effects. His reaction to his anger, the fear of what he was doing, growing to mistrust himself and everything about the Jedi, thinking failure was unforgiveable, instead of merely being a lesson, was the greatest triumph for the Dark Side. He was the serious light side player. He took himself out of the game. The Dark side got to romp unchallenged for some time, as Rey developed and came into play, to be the next generation..and to give Luke a boot to the rear.

She sets the groundwork, then Yoda appears to deliver the rest of the Lesson once Luke had opened himself back up. (Maybe Yoda couldn't even appear to Luke until he oepend himself back up again.)

Closing one self off from the force that unites all of creation doesn't sound like an easy thing, and for someone in his position, it seems it would have consequences.

So luke, seeing what was really needed from his was relighting Hope, he lets it rip, really pulls off an epic Legendary use of the Force., a tangible manifestation across light years for a prolonged period, even temporarily manifesting physical objects. He strikes fear permanent, whispered in dark corners, morale sapping fear into all of the First Order present (the invincible Jedi who scoffed at the fire of a Legion, and scoffs at their new 'Supreme Leader'), and thus relights Hope across the Galaxy.

The scene at the end, the kids retelling the legend of Lukes epic stand (as the Universe beleives it)..and the young kid calls the broom to his hand outside as he wears the rebel ring.

The lightside blockage or dam is clear, and the resulting surge seems to be flowing already into the generation to follow Rey.
« Last Edit: 16 December 2017, 14:17:32 by William J. Pennington »

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #61 on: 16 December 2017, 14:10:52 »
That final scene was so quick.  Did he force pull the broom to his hand or did he get it another way?
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William J. Pennington

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #62 on: 16 December 2017, 14:20:26 »
He calls it to his hand.

Random information aboutRose's ring and the symbolism of the boy with the ring

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-is-roses-rebel-ring-in-the-last-jedi-the-mechanic-spreads-hope-for-the-resistance-7607396


"The history of the ring, namely how Rose acquired it, is never detailed in the film, but fans can find more information in Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary, a new book Pablo Hidalgo. As reported by Screen Rant, the Visual Dictionary states that the ring was passed down for generations and over decades before it made its way to Rose. It was originally an accessory used by members of the Imperial Senate during the Galactic Civil War so they could secretly declare their Rebel allegiance. This is exactly how Rose uses the ring in The Last Jedi, but with every new generation, the meaning of the Rebel symbol and the form of the Resistance changes.

At the end of The Last Jedi, Rose's Rebel ring takes on a slightly new meaning. Instead of identifying existing members of the Resistance, it symbolizes the hope of a new generation that will eventually join. The audience is taken back to Canto Bight, where three of the young children working the stables are huddled on a dirty floor, playing with handmaid action figures, telling the story of Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. They are quickly ordered back to work, and as the little boy who helped Rose goes outside to sweep the runway leading out to the race track, he appears to summon the broom into his hands using the Force. He steps outside to look up into the night sky, the ring sitting proudly on his hand."

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #63 on: 16 December 2017, 14:48:20 »
I could rant all day about Rey's mary-sue-ness... .

Okay. Someone has to explain this to me.  Isn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu simply the fictional embodiment of the author? So, which writer/director/producer is she?

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #64 on: 16 December 2017, 15:00:01 »
Just like yopu seem to assume the resistance has a huge budget to attach light speed engines to asteriods, and drag them around everywhere, hoping for the First order to repeat the same mistakes and get distracted and set it self up...and not notice asteroids with light speed engines attached to them.
and fitting out sublight engines and hyperdrives to a rock big enough probably costs as much as building a dedicated warship the same size. and that warship is going to be infinitely more useful in every other job a ship might be called on to serve.

plus asteroids, as seen several times in the films, are nowhere near as durable as starships of the same size. we see ISD's potshotting asteroids at Hoth several times bigger than the Tantive IV.. but where the Tantive IV took several hits from the ISD's guns without substantial physical damage beyond disabling the reactor.. the asteroids get blown into gravel. so a "hyperspace ram asteroid" would have to be fitted with shields and armor too, othrwise it'll be blown the hell by anti-ship guns before it can get off the ram. and it'll need guns of its own, and hangers too, so that fighters and bombers can't just blow it up with some strafing runs.. and with engines, hyperdrive, shields, weapons, hangers, defense fighters.. that means you'd need sizeable crew quarters, and life support, and holds for stores..

at this point you have a full starship, it is just one using a bunch of fragile rock as a keel, instead of durable alloys.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #65 on: 16 December 2017, 15:33:22 »
I would like to point out that an Asteroid of similar mass is going to be significantly smaller in actual dimensional volume.  One thing to remember about your ships: They're hollow!  That outer hull is hiding a latticework or honeycomb of open air bubbles.  A lot of the armor is on the outside, like the shell of an egg.  To armor up the interior walls is probably going above and beyond, so a budget conscious ship design probably isn't going to have solid bulk-heads throughout that can withstand the same blast as your primary armor on the outer hull.

While those Star Destoyers in ESB may have been womp-ratting a great deal of those asteroids, their shields were still weakening from impacts, to the point that the ships were taking mission-kill damage.

What Triptych is describing is essentially the most basic projectile known to man. An arrow or spear was, at its earliest inception, a Rock on a Stick! Slung from a spring , arrow or arm.

A bullet, by any other definition, is a solid lump of ore. How it's projected to speed is variable.  Even lasers or plasma beams are essentially the same thing, the volume and size of the bullet being the only real defining factor.

An asteroid arrow is simply a really big bullet. And, if you pick the dense, metal ones, like a shepherd boy picking out stones from a spring for his sling, you have something that is pretty compact.  You scrunch your cruiser down so that you don't have all those bubbles taking up space, and you have a significantly smaller target to shoot at. And, if done right, there's no need to defend it. Heck, think of the mass drivers from Babylon 5.  You could probably carry the things like ammo.

So, conceptually, there's no reason not to have made and used Light Speed Asteroid Bullets.

It's possible that it was a tactic used and abandoned millenia ago in the Star Wars Galaxy's timeline.  Maybe it's historical lore, and the inspiration to execute the maneuver came from memory of a story somewhere.  Hopefully they come up with some explanation as to why it's not more common a tactic in large fleet engagements.

But, questioning the common use of the tactic shouldn't be dismissed out-of-hand, either.

Until they give us an official answer, however, we can only speculate about the giant elephant asteroid in the room.

 #P




   
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #66 on: 16 December 2017, 17:09:19 »
Okay. Someone has to explain this to me.  Isn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu simply the fictional embodiment of the author? So, which writer/director/producer is she?

A Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a largely infallible self-insert character that possesses insight & ability beyond what they rationally should have for their age & experience. It's generally assumed to be an author self-insert particularly in fan-fiction, but a character can still give off awful mary sue vibes without being a strictly author self-insert.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #67 on: 16 December 2017, 18:17:07 »
The idea Snoke presented that Rey appeared because Kylo turned to the dark side seems to be a new spin on the old prophecy about one who'll bring balance to the force.

Rather than being one individual directly spawned by the force, it implies that the force is self correcting. When things go out of balance, say by Luke dropping the ball, Snoke being out there Snoking things up, and the like, Someone new awakens with the potential to set things right. It's why the dark side always looses eventually, the force always pulls in a ringer, and all the adherents of the dark side can do about it is try to turn them.

So, just like Yoda said, "a prophecy that misread might have been". There's no one messiah that's going to fix everything forever, but every time people muck things up with the dark side, eventually the force sends its own champion.
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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #68 on: 16 December 2017, 18:38:55 »
Overall it was good movie and I can agree it was a bit slow in spots but that is also pretty typical of the original trilogy.


A Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a largely infallible self-insert character that possesses insight & ability beyond what they rationally should have for their age & experience. It's generally assumed to be an author self-insert particularly in fan-fiction, but a character can still give off awful mary sue vibes without being a strictly author self-insert.

By that definition then Rey is not a Mary Sue.  She is quite clearly fallible, has good reasons to have the skills she has, and is a force user.

I would like to point out that an Asteroid of similar mass is going to be significantly smaller in actual dimensional volume.  One thing to remember about your ships: They're hollow!  That outer hull is hiding a latticework or honeycomb of open air bubbles.  A lot of the armor is on the outside, like the shell of an egg.  To armor up the interior walls is probably going above and beyond, so a budget conscious ship design probably isn't going to have solid bulk-heads throughout that can withstand the same blast as your primary armor on the outer hull.

While those Star Destoyers in ESB may have been womp-ratting a great deal of those asteroids, their shields were still weakening from impacts, to the point that the ships were taking mission-kill damage.

What Triptych is describing is essentially the most basic projectile known to man. An arrow or spear was, at its earliest inception, a Rock on a Stick! Slung from a spring , arrow or arm.

A bullet, by any other definition, is a solid lump of ore. How it's projected to speed is variable.  Even lasers or plasma beams are essentially the same thing, the volume and size of the bullet being the only real defining factor.

An asteroid arrow is simply a really big bullet. And, if you pick the dense, metal ones, like a shepherd boy picking out stones from a spring for his sling, you have something that is pretty compact.  You scrunch your cruiser down so that you don't have all those bubbles taking up space, and you have a significantly smaller target to shoot at. And, if done right, there's no need to defend it. Heck, think of the mass drivers from Babylon 5.  You could probably carry the things like ammo.

So, conceptually, there's no reason not to have made and used Light Speed Asteroid Bullets.

It's possible that it was a tactic used and abandoned millenia ago in the Star Wars Galaxy's timeline.  Maybe it's historical lore, and the inspiration to execute the maneuver came from memory of a story somewhere.  Hopefully they come up with some explanation as to why it's not more common a tactic in large fleet engagements.

But, questioning the common use of the tactic shouldn't be dismissed out-of-hand, either.

Until they give us an official answer, however, we can only speculate about the giant elephant asteroid in the room.

 #P

Or quite simply as already mentioned it takes far too specific circumstances to be a reliable weapon.  The First Order was shown to be less competent than the Empire, especially in this movie.

We see quite clearly a freighter just crumple against the bow of Darth Vader's Star Destroyer in Rogue One.  So clearly a minimum run up may be required and a more competent/aware opponent may not be so vulnerable to the tactic.

We also quite clearly see in TLJ that aim can potentially be an issue.  The kamikaze impacted on the "wing", most likely aimed spot was center mass.

So ultimately it seems to assume kamikaze FTL is an effective tactic that is better than just having ships slug it out or fighters make attack runs relies on assuming facts not in evidence and ignoring facts in evidence.

I am Belch II

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #69 on: 16 December 2017, 21:57:54 »
The tactics of the First Order and the leadership of the Generals is worse then the Empire. I sometimes wonder how the First Order got to the power that is with the horrible tactics that they have. I get its the "Star Wars" is always about the underdog wining against the big bad guys. That was shown many different times in episode 7 and 8. Episode 8 the line between good and evil was a lot more "gray" then in the other movies.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #70 on: 16 December 2017, 22:17:34 »
The tactics of the First Order and the leadership of the Generals is worse then the Empire. I sometimes wonder how the First Order got to the power that is with the horrible tactics that they have. I get its the "Star Wars" is always about the underdog wining against the big bad guys. That was shown many different times in episode 7 and 8. Episode 8 the line between good and evil was a lot more "gray" then in the other movies.

I don't know about that, the defense of the first death star seemed to have a lot in common with the defense of the Dreadought at the start of the movie. Tarkin/Hux was so confident of their advantage that they didn't bother to operate with fighter cover until the rebels were already engaged (and even then it was under someone else's order).

During the battle of Hoth, the empire apparently never considered the possibility of ground fire being a factor and was nice enough to hang around within easy range. And, again, didn't bother to have a fighter screen up, allowing transports to run right past their derped up star destroyer unchallenged.

During the battle of Endor, the Empire likewise deliberately held back their enormous advantage in warships so that the Emperor could show off his fancy gun. Even though his entire plan had a number of very obvious points of failure, like the shield generator that was susceptible to sabotage or the great big millenium falcon sized hole in the death star that led to the reactor.

Honestly, Hux is kinda par for the course. We just didn't notice because nobody tried crank calling an imperial general before.
« Last Edit: 17 December 2017, 03:35:39 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #71 on: 16 December 2017, 22:25:05 »
Which was awesome.

I swear large portions of the script were lifted from our gaming sessions.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #72 on: 17 December 2017, 00:30:54 »
So it seems many of us who saw it are assuming Ren was lying about Rey's parents.  However, I have read several reviews that think her being a nobody is better.  Up to now, the story revolved entirely around the Skywalker family.  Everyone of importance eas either a Skywalker, or made important by association with one.  Rey being nobody opens up the galaxy.  Now others potentially can be important to the story too.  A point underscored by the kid at the end.

So, now I'm wondering, are those of us still hoping her parents were somebodys just holding on too hard to older stories.  In my case I know I was hoping she was a Skywalker because it could have given us a chance to get Mara Jade back.  Anyone else think that's what we're doing?
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #73 on: 17 December 2017, 00:40:25 »
I think the story is better with Rey being a nobody.  Just like the Broom Kid in the final scene.

I'm going with the idea that she's the natural result of Kylo Ren rising in power with the dark side... inherent balance in the force and all that.  I also think that fits with Luke sequestering himself, if he was Snoke's counterpart he could have been trying to limit Snoke's power by turning away from the Force himself.  And it'd even help give motivation for Luke turning himself into a force ghost... with Snoke dead if Luke stuck around a dark side counterpart would just rise again to restore balance.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #74 on: 17 December 2017, 00:50:26 »
If the force is  actually aware of imbalance, and tries sort things out .well, its not  been really good at  since the republic fell.

Of course, in the terms of a universal pervasive force, a few decades of tyranny, war, conflict and strife is just an eyeblink.

You have to wonder if some people just think the universe would be better off with no force wielders at all to muck things up....but then to know that much about it, you almost have to be a force wielder.





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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #75 on: 17 December 2017, 01:00:14 »
If the force is  actually aware of imbalance, and tries sort things out .well, its not  been really good at  since the republic fell.

Hasn't it, though?  The Emperor and Vader had Luke and an entire Force-worshipping Rebellion rise up to counterbalance.  In most places in the galaxy the Jedi were already fading into legend yet the rebels say "May the Force be with you" all the time.  And of course there's the salvation of Anakin and the destruction of the Emperor thing.  Smoke and Kylo Ren would be the pendulum swinging back after an overcorrection against the Dark side.
« Last Edit: 17 December 2017, 01:04:04 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #76 on: 17 December 2017, 02:07:26 »
I for one am rather pleased that she is most certainly not a Skywalker or Solo.

I still hold out some hope that she may be the granddaughter of old Ben Kenobi(which does have the added benefit of not discounting that her actual parents are still relative nobodies) or my even more wild ass theory that she may be the daughter of Wedge Antillies(a man who faced down two Death Stars and the Imperial fleet? Go ahead and try and tell me that isn't a sure sign he's not a force user) or even perhaps that one Y-Wing pilot(current lore does declare that pilot to be female so it may even be both) to survive the first Death Star.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #77 on: 17 December 2017, 03:09:22 »
If the force is  actually aware of imbalance, and tries sort things out .well, its not  been really good at  since the republic fell.



But...it was in blance the whole time.  Obi-wan and Yoda balanced Sidious and Vader.  And when Obi-wan fell*, Luke rose to balance Vader.  It was afterwards it was out of balance...perhaps causing the rise of Snoke or Kylo Ren.


*could that have been Obi-wan's plan?  With Luke awakeming to his power, he knew he needed to go to keep the balance
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #78 on: 17 December 2017, 03:31:32 »
If the force is  actually aware of imbalance, and tries sort things out .well, its not  been really good at  since the republic fell.

I blame that on the mechanism of action. It's not the force's fault that the dominant sapient lifeforms tend to so bad about it.

But...it was in blance the whole time.  Obi-wan and Yoda balanced Sidious and Vader.  And when Obi-wan fell*, Luke rose to balance Vader.  It was afterwards it was out of balance...perhaps causing the rise of Snoke or Kylo Ren.

I... don't buy that. At all.

For one thing, it's silly mathematical literalism.

For another, how do you know who counts? There are a lot of people across the galaxy with some level of force ability. Where do they fit into the equation? Does the kid with the broom count, or does he have to pick a lightsaber color? Snoke's pretty damn old, when did he start counting? Do you have to keep equal numbers at all times? If a jedi has a bad day and lashes out, does he count for the other team until he apologizes?

For a third: The force is older than the people who started calling themselves jedis, siths, or what have you. Why should it care enough to pin everything on one group or the other just because they have a name?

Nope, the imbalance IS the dark side (probably also the stagnation and decay of the Jedi Order before the empire). Part of the point of the whole movie is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself or what people think you are (Maz made the same point in the last film. Sith, Empire, First Order, it's all the same problem). 

So, no, Rey didn't awaken because of the need to establish an even number for each side. She awoke because things are going down the crapper again, and the only guy who was on hand to keep that from happening decided to go sulk on an island about how much he sucks.

Balance isn't one guy gets to be a dick and force slap his generals and one girl gets to be pretty nice and make rebound eyes at Poe Dameron. It's about not using these fabulous cosmic powers to go around blowing up planets and enslaving the galaxy.  That's been the point the entire series.  I mean, even the Dark Siders know this pretty well, that's why they keep reacting to a new jedi popping up like its an imminent threat, because it is. The force is trying to wipe them out.
« Last Edit: 17 December 2017, 03:33:21 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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pheonixstorm

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #79 on: 17 December 2017, 04:56:39 »
As for balance... that balance could just be neutrality. Using the light and the dark, something the Jedi never did. Something the Sith never did. At its height, the Jedi were just a bunch of pretentious blowholes thinking they knew what was right and it was there duty to fight for one side over the other. The world is not black and white so neither would the force. Just because you are good does not mean that you are just in your cause. History shows how even a benevolent civilization can become despots by trying to force others to their own dogma.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #80 on: 17 December 2017, 05:55:04 »
I don't know about neutrality. I think the intent of the force is what we would define as good. If it's a property of all life, then its only definable impulse might be the propagation, growth, evolution, and well being of life, and through that, itself. That is compatible with the idea of an order of force users working to maintain peace and justice, but there's more room for nuance. It's a spectrum rather than a binary decision.

Thus I agree more or less about the Jedi. Their dogma and doctrines and their legend got in the way and led to their downfall. They stopped believing themselves capable of mistakes. That legend of infallibility also got Luke as well, to the point where he couldn't deal with the idea of making a mistake as bad as what happened with Ben.

But I wouldn't say true neutral is the way to go. The key seems to be having the power but not being a self important jerk about it. Using it for the benefit of life, and still being wiling to acknowledge your own weaknesses and mistakes, and those of others.

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #81 on: 17 December 2017, 09:14:22 »
There is one thing that is bugging me more and more as I think about it...if the Raddus is supposed to be 3 km long, how is it crewed successfully by only 400 men? Worse yet, that number seemed to be the entire crews for not just the Raddus, but also the other two ships as well!!!

I know there's automation and droids, but still...

And then by the end, the Resistance was down to just a couple dozen or so (low enough numbers that they could all fit in the Falcon)...

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #82 on: 17 December 2017, 09:26:50 »
I neither liked nor disliked this movie.  It was the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi smushed into one movie.  I am disappointed that the porgs didn't take a more active role against Imperial forces at the second battle of Hoth. ;)
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #83 on: 17 December 2017, 09:58:23 »
The 400 number seemed very low for the rest of the Resistance. Seemed like they had a couple of thousand in the Force Awakens. The movie was only a couple of days after that movie. Maybe some of them escaped earlier before the start of the movie.

It was much of Empire Strikes Back with a Little of Return of the Jedi. It was unique enough to be a separate movie.  The acting wasn't that great from anyone in general. Visually it was great and the locations were pretty good.
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #84 on: 17 December 2017, 11:39:16 »
The 400 number seemed very low for the rest of the Resistance. Seemed like they had a couple of thousand in the Force Awakens.
Maybe they had several new bases.  The only issue with that is that they didn't respond to the call for help.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #85 on: 17 December 2017, 11:52:33 »
We do know that between the end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ the First Order was going hulk smash on the Resistance.  I don't find it hard to believe that Resistance bases elsewhere were all popped piecemeal and we were watching the effort to crush the very last one at the beginning of TLJ.

Leia's comment about "allies" in the outer rim make sense to me as really being more "potential" allies, in a military sense.  Lots of people are sympathetic to the Resistance, but noone was willing to put their vital anatomy on the chopping block for them.  The end of the movie is showing that's (potentially) about to change.

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #86 on: 17 December 2017, 13:37:41 »
There is one thing that is bugging me more and more as I think about it...if the Raddus is supposed to be 3 km long, how is it crewed successfully by only 400 men? Worse yet, that number seemed to be the entire crews for not just the Raddus, but also the other two ships as well!!!

I know there's automation and droids, but still...

One crew-member was sufficient to man the helm and jump to light speed, so it doesn't seem impossible. It does stand out from the usual aesthetic of crew numbers, though.

The 400 number seemed very low for the rest of the Resistance. Seemed like they had a couple of thousand in the Force Awakens. The movie was only a couple of days after that movie. Maybe some of them escaped earlier before the start of the movie.

Hmm... it may have been that this was just the core group that was holding things together, but at the same time, they didn't seem that big to me in The Force Awakens.
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #87 on: 17 December 2017, 14:05:19 »
I havn't seen this movie yet, but I wanted to give my view on the force balance thing.

now depending on what you include some of this will vary but...

the force as such is an energy field that permeates the galaxy (or universe) that is both created channeled and used by living creatures.
the "light side" as such isn't really an "imbalance" in the force its just restrictions on how you use it that makes it more sustainable.

"grey" force users (like the one that kanan and ezra run into in rebels) have a different set of abilities and "rules" as to what constitutes acceptable use of the force.

Dark siders such as the sith, vader, maul the witches of danthomir (legends ) etc do NOT abide by the jedi code and their restrictions on abilities, they also explicitly channel emotions into their force abilities which tends to send them down the "dark" path.

I tend to look at the Jedi in the prequel movies as an example of "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" now before you say that the jedi order was "evil" that's not actually what I am saying.  They did do a number of things that I question but I don't feel they were evil per say.

the problem the Jedi ran into is they setup a number of rules such as not training anyone over the age of... 6? 4? whatever because they felt that they couldn't indoctrinate the students well enough.  now if you look at Anakin and he seems to be the example that proves the reason for the rule.

on the other hand there were a lot of issues that lead to Anakin's corruption and "falling" to the dark side

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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #88 on: 17 December 2017, 20:34:32 »
One crew-member was sufficient to man the helm and jump to light speed, so it doesn't seem impossible. It does stand out from the usual aesthetic of crew numbers, though.

We never saw the Raddus fight. It's possible that it was operating well under skeleton crew levels, and there was no way they were able to go into combat, maybe not even perform a lot of essential long-term maintenance. I'll bet that even if I'd they hadn't abandoned the ship to the Pink-Haired Apocalypse's solo care, systems were going to start breaking down very soon simply because uncounted systems were going without regular adjustments and calibrations.

For all we know, her U-turn did heavy damage to the ship, just because she was turning that behemoth without having thruster control teams coordinate their efforts.

Manning requirements drop significantly when you eliminate almost all complex actions from your to-do list, and you adjust your ship's expected lifespan from decades down to an hour or so.
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Re: Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoilerrific Discussion
« Reply #89 on: 17 December 2017, 20:39:55 »
And I've always been of a mind that the crew/vehicle/fighter counts of what is supposed to be on a ship have always been rather over inflated.  Even in official source material.