Author Topic: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising  (Read 152100 times)

BrianDavion

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #600 on: 05 February 2023, 05:35:12 »
Yep! Quite pleased to see nothing terrible happened to the Bulls (or rather, that they didn't do anything terrible to themselves again) for once. I'd definitely like to see something that explains what exactly transpired between Hadji Doru taking off to the Magistracy and Kaff Doru becoming Protector.

I know we're fans of, well, peripheral factions in the setting, but it'd be nice to get some filling in on the Fronc Reaches and Filtvelt as well as the TC/CP.

yeah the Taurians had kind of become a bit of a one note joke for years, it's nice to see thats changing 
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Starfury

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #601 on: 11 February 2023, 20:25:05 »
Anytime the Taurians can put hurt on the Favions and not come out as losers is a nice change.  It's also good to see the Quixhote isn't dead either.  As an aside, has anyone played any Taurian vs Davion battles with the rules from Dominions Divided?

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #602 on: 12 February 2023, 00:27:53 »
It's also good to see the Quixhote isn't dead either.

I think it's fair to mention that the Redemption wasn't actually seen in service. There was just the implication that it might be moved close to the front in the future.

If nobody else knows yet that the Redemption went missing (which is a strong possibility if the Republic Redemption was the same ship, and thus behind the wall), then the threat of using her still holds weight against their neighbors for now.

Also, we don't know how the Redemption would have ended up in Republic service in the first place. It could be that the Protectorate loaned the ship to the Republic in exchange for some service, resources, or a fat stack of cash. Or that the ship was in refit at a Terran yard when the wall went up and got Osman'ed into Republic service as a result. Since very few people outside the wall know the full details of what happened during the battle of Terra, this could mean that the Protectorate is still holding out some small hope of getting the ship back, either from some remnant of the Republic or striking a deal with the IlClan.

I'm not saying any of this is the case, of course, but I am saying it seems less likely to me for there to be two Quixote class frigates still around that both happen to be named Redemption.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Jeyar123

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #603 on: 27 August 2023, 20:12:25 »
Has that been answered yet? I thought someone posted to tptb to see if it was a typo or something.

PeripheryExplorer

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #604 on: 29 January 2024, 07:49:58 »
Hello! Since this is the location for Taurian questions ... does anyone know of a source for all things Taurian manufacturing? Crouton Command is - as of 3141 - highly out of date. If not, something I can try to tackle. I would really like to see what the TC has been doing to recover from it's near demise and I am working on some technical readout style fiction pieces around things like an updated Vargr (I know it's from the video game, but it was in the Arano sourcebook!), and some omni vehicles. If anyone has a resource, please let me know! Thank you!

jgodwin17

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #605 on: 12 February 2024, 09:00:13 »
Hello! Since this is the location for Taurian questions ... does anyone know of a source for all things Taurian manufacturing? Crouton Command is - as of 3141 - highly out of date. If not, something I can try to tackle. I would really like to see what the TC has been doing to recover from it's near demise and I am working on some technical readout style fiction pieces around things like an updated Vargr (I know it's from the video game, but it was in the Arano sourcebook!), and some omni vehicles. If anyone has a resource, please let me know! Thank you!

I don't have a particularly great source, but someone compiled a list of mechs on Reddit from various sources (most of which I have found confirmation of in BT documents): Thunderbolts, Warhammers, Marauders, Shadowhawk, Locust, Stinger, Clint, Wasp, Brahma, Wolverine, Marshal, Hatchetman, Commando, Toro, Griffin, Archer, Xanthos, Cadaver, Ostroc (also the Merlin which they missed).

They manufacture Astarion Battle Armor. Not sure on all the vehicles/aerospace, but I know they still manufacture J. Edgars and Drillsons in the IlClan from the latest rec guides.

Hope that's at least some help.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #606 on: 12 February 2024, 10:59:52 »
Hello! Since this is the location for Taurian questions ... does anyone know of a source for all things Taurian manufacturing? Crouton Command is - as of 3141 - highly out of date. If not, something I can try to tackle. I would really like to see what the TC has been doing to recover from it's near demise and I am working on some technical readout style fiction pieces around things like an updated Vargr (I know it's from the video game, but it was in the Arano sourcebook!), and some omni vehicles. If anyone has a resource, please let me know! Thank you!

As far as i know, they are making these mechs:

Cadaver -1A/-T1
Commando -2D
Locust -5R/-5T/-5V
Quasit Militiamech -51M/-51P-/-51T
Stinger -5R/-5T
Valkyrie -QT2 (¿factory refit?)
Toro -A-6 / -A-12

Clint -3-4T
Griffin -4N
Phoenix Hawk -4W
Phoenix  Primitive ¿maybe?
Shadow Hawk -7M

Archer -6W
Brahma -5A/-5B/-6T
Griffin Primitive ¿maybe?
Marauder -3R/-2T
Merlin -1D/-1E
Ostroc -4C/-5C
Ymir  Primitive ¿maybe?
Warhammer -6Rb/-7A/-10T/-11T
Thunderbolt -9T
Thunderbolt Primitive ¿maybe?
 
Xanthos  Primitive ¿maybe?
 

Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

jgodwin17

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #607 on: 12 February 2024, 16:16:45 »
Did a bit more digging and it looks like in addition to what Baldur posted
Vandenberg Mechanized Industries produces the Griffin 3M as well
Taurus Territorial MAY still produce the Wolverine and Marshall (the planet was destroyed with the meteor strike, but has been rebuilt - it's unclear what is being produced there still).
TTI also got rights from the Capellans to build a "new" Wasp (I'm not sure which one this is based on the MUL listings).
Pinard Protectorate Limited produces the Wasp 1A and 3A.
They have a variant of the Rifleman, (the 9T) but I can't find where or if they are produced by the Taurians or if they are a refit kit applied to outside purchased ones.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #608 on: 12 February 2024, 18:59:16 »
Did a bit more digging and it looks like in addition to what Baldur posted
Vandenberg Mechanized Industries produces the Griffin 3M as well
Taurus Territorial MAY still produce the Wolverine and Marshall (the planet was destroyed with the meteor strike, but has been rebuilt - it's unclear what is being produced there still).
TTI also got rights from the Capellans to build a "new" Wasp (I'm not sure which one this is based on the MUL listings).
Pinard Protectorate Limited produces the Wasp 1A and 3A.
They have a variant of the Rifleman, (the 9T) but I can't find where or if they are produced by the Taurians or if they are a refit kit applied to outside purchased ones.

The -9T is a refit as far as i know (TRO:3085, page 250.  The Marshal i think it was lotst with the asteroid attack, and the Taurian Wolverine was lost since the fall of the Star League. Would like to know the references for the Griffin -3M and the Wasp -3A production (the last one is a OWA variant IIRC).
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

Starfury

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #609 on: 12 February 2024, 21:19:28 »
They're also producing the Royal Thunderbolt and the Royal Marauder on Taurus and New Vanderberg based on the MUL.  I'm assuming TTI was finally rebuilt along with the Hatchetman line because I've never been able to find any source for all of these Hatchetmen 5S that pop up on the general Periphery MUL by the Early Republic, unless the Calderon Protectorate suddenly went full Oprah with Hatchetman production. They did get a lot of help from Davion after all.

The Marshal has two production lines one in Fronc (in HTP Fronc Reaches and the other at Detroit by the  Early Republic. I can't think that there's enough excess production for Detroit to provide for the Capellans, the Canopians, and the Taurians, let alone the rest of the Periphery, so maybe the Taurians rebuilt the Marshal line as well.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #610 on: 12 February 2024, 22:26:51 »
They're also producing the Royal Thunderbolt and the Royal Marauder on Taurus and New Vanderberg based on the MUL.  I'm assuming TTI was finally rebuilt along with the Hatchetman line because I've never been able to find any source for all of these Hatchetmen 5S that pop up on the general Periphery MUL by the Early Republic, unless the Calderon Protectorate suddenly went full Oprah with Hatchetman production. They did get a lot of help from Davion after all.

The Marshal has two production lines one in Fronc (in HTP Fronc Reaches and the other at Detroit by the  Early Republic. I can't think that there's enough excess production for Detroit to provide for the Capellans, the Canopians, and the Taurians, let alone the rest of the Periphery, so maybe the Taurians rebuilt the Marshal line as well.

The Marauder -2R became the -2T by the Dark Age (only diference is a LB-5X instead of the regular AC-5). Acording to nckestrel, the VMI line in Pinard build the Thunderbolt -5Sb until they changed to the -9T. The Marshall keeps beign a good question.The Hatchetman -5S i assume are old mechs that with time ended up in the Periphery while the rest of the IS used never models. Another good question for TPTB.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

jgodwin17

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #611 on: 12 February 2024, 23:15:56 »
The -9T is a refit as far as i know (TRO:3085, page 250.  The Marshal i think it was lotst with the asteroid attack, and the Taurian Wolverine was lost since the fall of the Star League. Would like to know the references for the Griffin -3M and the Wasp -3A production (the last one is a OWA variant IIRC).

The Griffin 3M is from Objectives Periphery page 5 (at least according to Sarna, don’t have it). it says it’s produced at the VMI plant on Illiushin, which I don’t believe has ever been attacked. The Wasp 3A is listed on Sarna as being produced by Pinard Protectorates, though it doesn’t list a source and reading a bit more into it it looks like the plant was destroyed during the Jihad.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #612 on: 13 February 2024, 00:40:36 »
The Griffin 3M is from Objectives Periphery page 5 (at least according to Sarna, don’t have it). it says it’s produced at the VMI plant on Illiushin, which I don’t believe has ever been attacked.

Objectives periphery does state that the Taurians were still building the Griffin at Illiushin, but it does not give a model number. TRO 3085 however notes that the Concordat started building the GRF-4N model Griffin towards the end of the Jihad.

Going by the Master Unit list, the 3M Griffin does not appear on the Taurian list, but the 2N and the 4N do (in addition to the classic 1N). So assuming the line is fully modernized, I would have to assume that it's building 2Ns and 4Ns.

The Wasp 3A is outworlds/raven alliance exclusive, so that's not Taurian built either. The Concordat was building the 3L Wasp before the Jihad, but I don't know if they were able to keep up production after the breakup with the Capellans (because of the stealth armor). The 3P variant is at least partly based on the 3L, so it could be built there, but it's only described as a "periphery variant" and has "periphery general" as its availability listing.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #613 on: 13 February 2024, 02:06:44 »
Anyway, here's a list of battlemechs the Taurian Concordat has built, is building, or may have built. It's broken up into three groups. The first is the mechs the Concordat was producing before the clan invasion. The second section covers mechs definitively listed as having been produced in the Concordat since then.

The last group are "possible" that the Concordat may have built, but for which I have no proof of.

Also, there's a fair bit of overlap in designs and roles, and it's probably best to assume that older models will cease production as new ones take their place, but the details are fuzzy or completely absent, so use your best judgement.

This list omits primitive battlemechs, as in general production of those units ceased once the jihad was over. It also omits designs that were created solely as field refits, like the Taurian clint.

EDIT: Added the phoenix hawk 4W.
EDIT 2: added Clint and Merlin
EDIT3: Thunderbolt 7M and Valkyrie QT1

Pre-Clan Mech Production
Locust 1V
Wasp 1A
Stinger 3R
Griffin 1N
Thunderbolt 5S
Warhammer 6R
Archer 2R
Marauder 3R
Commando 2D

Later production
Hatchetman 3F (clan invasion, production lost during FC civil war)
Marshal X1 (clan invasion, production lost during Jihad)
Locust 5V (before jihad)
Stinger 5R (before jihad)
Wasp 3L (before jihad)
Shadow Hawk 7M (before jihad)
Ostroc 4C (before jihad)
Archer 6W (before jihad)
Phoenix Hawk 4W (Jihad era)
Brahma (Jihad era)
Griffin 4N (Jihad era)
Ostroc 5C (Jihad era)
Thunderbolt 9T (Jihad era)
Warhammer 10T (Jihad era)
Warhammer 11T (Jihad era)
Thunderbolt 5Sb (Jihad era)
Warhamer 6Rb (Jihad era)
Marauder MAD-2R (Jihad era)
Valkyrie QT1 (very end of the Jihad)
Marauder MAD-2T (republic era)
Cadaver (Republic era)
Warhammer 7A (Republic era)
Clint 3-4T (Republic era)
Merlin 1D (Republic era)
Merlin 1E (Republic era)
Thunderbolt 7M

Possible?
Commando 5S (only because the line is still in service and it's on the periphery general list)
Stinger 5T (periphery built)
Locust 5T (periphery built)
Griffin 2N (at least available to the concordat)
Archer 4M (only because the archer line is still in service and it is on the periphery list)
Archer 4M2 (only because the archer line is still in service and it is on the periphery list)
Wasp 3P (periphery built)
Hatchetman 5S (periphery exclusive by the dark age)
Marshal 2L (available to the taurian concordat though I think it might have been built on Detroit only)
Toro TR-B-9 (available to the concordat by the Ilclan era, but I don't know if the concordat is producing it)
Toro TR-B-19 (available to the concordat by the Ilclan era, but I don't know if the concordat is producing it)
Clint 3-3T (May or may not have been built on Macleoud's land rather than a refit)
« Last Edit: 13 February 2024, 22:24:46 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

jgodwin17

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #614 on: 13 February 2024, 09:51:29 »
Yeah, there is definitely a possibility the Griffin line had been modernized and is producing the 4Ns and 2Ns.

You can also definitely add the T variant Clints and Merlin 1D and 1E to your list as they were featured as being Taurian builds in the recent Rec guide series (off the top of my head I think the Clint’s started in Jihad and Merlins in early Republic).

I would also guess the Taurians are still producing stealth armor as they start having the Atlas S4 in Dark Age, and they definitely do not have an Atlas line, so I’m guessing they are refits of current Atlases they have. They are also still have the Rifleman 9T, which I’m guessing they are getting the Riflemen from the Fronc Reaches (who is the other faction with access), and out fitting them with stealth armor.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #615 on: 13 February 2024, 18:32:20 »
I've added the Clint 4T and the two Merlin configurations to the produced section.

I've also listed the Clint 3T as "possible". While the Taurians were definitely operating them during the Jihad, Objectives periphery doesn't list a manufacturing line for the Clint just after the conflict, so most likely these were field refits of existing mechs rather than new production. And while the Taurians are definitely building Clints now, there's nothing definite about whether or not the 3T was ever built there or if the plant just built the 4T.

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Starfury

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #616 on: 13 February 2024, 20:54:33 »
The Toros are from the Protectorate Arms factories in the Calderon Protectorate based on the Toro article fr.om Shrapnel 10 page 184. There was a primitive Toro line on Illushin that could have been upgraded to produce full up Toros, but I haven't see any text evidence of that.

Vandenberg Mechanical Industries is also producing the Valkyrie QT1 as of 3081 at one of their three locations (Technical Readout 3085 sheets and page 186 of Shrapnel 10).  There's also another Archer line VMI has that could be making 4M Archers or Archer 5Ws and the Thunderbolt line on Pinard which was making 7Ms. I'm curious if the T-bolt 9T line is a rebuilt TTI line and the Royal T-bolt is being built on Pinard.

Also the Taurians are making the Stinger 5T as per Objectives Periphery page 7.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #617 on: 13 February 2024, 22:18:18 »
The Toros are from the Protectorate Arms factories in the Calderon Protectorate based on the Toro article fr.om Shrapnel 10 page 184. There was a primitive Toro line on Illushin that could have been upgraded to produce full up Toros, but I haven't see any text evidence of that.

Vandenberg Mechanical Industries is also producing the Valkyrie QT1 as of 3081 at one of their three locations (Technical Readout 3085 sheets and page 186 of Shrapnel 10).  There's also another Archer line VMI has that could be making 4M Archers or Archer 5Ws and the Thunderbolt line on Pinard which was making 7Ms. I'm curious if the T-bolt 9T line is a rebuilt TTI line and the Royal T-bolt is being built on Pinard.

Also the Taurians are making the Stinger 5T as per Objectives Periphery page 7.

Objectives periphery doesn't mention a model number of stinger on page 7. But page 7 does add credence to the clint 3T being new production rather than a refit by mentiong Clint production is expected to "resume".

(Honestly, it's likely that the Locust and Stinger T variants are being built in the concordat, but I haven't found anything definite, and they're shared among the Capellans, Canopeans, and Taurians in such a way that the "T" designation could just as easily stand for "trinity")

I don't have shrapnel #10 myself, but I'll add those to the list.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Starfury

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #618 on: 14 February 2024, 17:36:00 »
True. They also produce the Trinity Battle Armor as well.

Jeyar123

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #619 on: 14 February 2024, 17:54:43 »
Btw - what was the shrapnel about that has all those details?


I always love the TC building things.  :bow:

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #620 on: 15 February 2024, 11:01:34 »
I've added the Clint 4T and the two Merlin configurations to the produced section.

I've also listed the Clint 3T as "possible". While the Taurians were definitely operating them during the Jihad, Objectives periphery doesn't list a manufacturing line for the Clint just after the conflict, so most likely these were field refits of existing mechs rather than new production. And while the Taurians are definitely building Clints now, there's nothing definite about whether or not the 3T was ever built there or if the plant just built the 4T.

Objectives says this about the Clint:
Code: [Select]
Limping along at a low production rate that should increase in fits and jumps as engineers get lines repaired and in use once more, the TDF expects that Clint and Stinger production will resume eventually.TRO:3050U mentions it entering service about the same time as the -6S, and both are listed as introduced in 3069. The MacLeod's Land´s PPI facility was almost destroyed by the Hansen Roughriders in 3074, and Objective is set in 3076. They were already producing the Clint (dont know wich model) by 3067 acording to Handbook: MPS, page 119.

As for the Archer, while the RATs are not a reliable way to know what a faction produce at a given moment, if you check FM:3145, the Taurians have the Archer -6W in their list, but by Dominions Divided, they sport the -4M2. So, it would not wild to assume that they maybe changed the Archer line from -6W to -4M2.

Also jgodwin17, while Sarna is good to look for book references, dont take all of it as reliable information. The Sarna guys are making a very good work, but there are geological strata of mistake, or people adding fan content to it.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #621 on: 15 February 2024, 11:09:55 »
The Toros are from the Protectorate Arms factories in the Calderon Protectorate based on the Toro article fr.om Shrapnel 10 page 184. There was a primitive Toro line on Illushin that could have been upgraded to produce full up Toros, but I haven't see any text evidence of that.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64553.msg1485281#msg1485281
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

jgodwin17

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #622 on: 15 February 2024, 13:23:05 »

Also jgodwin17, while Sarna is good to look for book references, dont take all of it as reliable information. The Sarna guys are making a very good work, but there are geological strata of mistake, or people adding fan content to it.

Sure, it's like any Wiki site. But for those of us who don't own every BT publication, it's a good place to start, and at the end of the day I'm not using it write a scholarly journal article or a historical nonfiction, just for playing robot games.