Author Topic: 'Mech Engineer Quest  (Read 44940 times)

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #120 on: 26 November 2015, 19:32:19 »
A textbook banana-republic would actually be mostly run by an Inner-sphere megacorp which had close ties to an intelligence agency, and be more concerned about stable business environments for it's masters than annexing parts of it's neighbors.

Anyways, I've rolled dice to break the tie-Warclaw, Daryk, give me a number between 2 and 12, the person who's closest wins and gets their choice.
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Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #121 on: 26 November 2015, 20:05:11 »
9

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #122 on: 27 November 2015, 08:05:28 »
8... odds are the number is lower than 9, and taking anything lower than 8 runs the risk of creating another tie or being farther away than 9.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #123 on: 27 November 2015, 16:54:34 »
Well I rolled a 7, so it looks like Daryk pulls this one out of their hat.  Koren-Gagin could have played kingmaker or made this a three way tie if they had included an option he would have preferred to drop when he suggested 'no, get fancy old fashioned stuff.'
---
Cabanagem was never the most obedient world when the Star League pacified it.  In practice, such pacification had consisted of landing a dropship and erecting a flagpole and flag, and then demanding the entire population pay taxes in Star League dollars for the erection of the flag.  Since such money was unavailable, those who couldn't pay were rounded up and sent to newly built factories where they were forced to work for wages to make exportable goods.  Understandably, the chaos of the Amaris coup and the collapse of the League government on the planet had seen most of those factory workers throw down their tools and run back to the jungle, and thousands of tons of unshipped goods left in moldering factories.  Since one of the major exports back then and now was tropical hardwood furniture, it ought not to be a surprise to find this in one of the stores, still emptying out the three-hundred year old stock of the last production run of desks, tables, chairs and other beautiful items.

The desk, upon closer inspection, seems to have never had the computer it was designed to hold installed, but it might hold any design of monitor or terminal with only slight modification.  The fact that it has numerous secret compartments skillfully worked into it more than compensates for the lack of anything like gold leaf that looters might have scraped off before it was restored.  There are at least 30 different places to stash anything from a pen to a pistol.  And thankfully, unlike the worst excesses of the period, it's rather tasteful and restrained.

Your evening gown, on the other hand, which you are getting in anticipation of a gala following the unveiling of your designs, is anything but restrained, even if it is tasteful.  Slit high up to the hip and showing off a generous decolletage, it might not be the most modest outfit you've ever owned, but it is certainly striking with it's scarlet color and flattering cut.  It needs a few alterations, but once the fit is corrected, you'll certainly be able to turn some heads.

More practical are the outdoors clothes you purchase for any trips out into the countryside.  Designed to wick sweat away from your body and keep BO under control, they also feature a bit of camouflage designed for a tropical backdrop.  It seems the local megafauna include everything from big cats and elephants to giant fish, and a huntress like yourself could be quite busy taking all the trophies that she might want.  You also score some camping gear to go along with it-if you're gonna take  a trip into the dark heart of the continent, a bedroll and mosquito net will be a must.

You're a bit conflicted by the choice of your final purchase, but ultimately settle on something very rare indeed.  Smart fabrics were a Star League technology, and seeing a dress that shimmers, shifts color and even glows is very eye-catching.  It's also expensive, and only in the last couple of years have new ones begun appearing.  The thing comes with an extensive instruction manual and a note about the synthetic fabric it's made of.  The fact that each fiber can shift color and even glow according to a very precise program is the key of the entire charm of the dress.  The thing needs batteries, but the tiny amount of charge needed to shift colors means that the built-in 'paper batteries' in the seams and hems can power it for an entire day, or several hours on the softly luminescent setting.  And it can be keyed to a microcomputer that can be hidden in your jewelry or purse to wirelessly control it-up to 30 settings can be pre-loaded and swapped between in a fairly simple way.  The only downside is that it's actually pretty terrible for sneaking around in by virtue of it's cut-the expense of the fabric means that it's in 'little black dress' size only, and barely reaches mid-thigh while leaving your back exposed fairly far down.

But buying one dress that can be an infinite number of colors does seem like a cost-cutting measure that you can get behind, even if the up-front investment is fairly high.

As night falls though, it's up to you to decide where to head to enjoy your last night of the weekend, before work begins tommorow.  With dusk around 6 PM, and full night enveloping the city soon after, you have plenty of time to get a little party time under your belt-but where?

Code: [Select]
[ ] Bars, Nighclubs, and Cantinas!  We drink to forget and then forget to stop drinking!  Even if it means a hangover,
cut loose and indulge in the famous products of the vine and the field.  Maybe get some fun on the side?
[ ] Kareoke!  Find some other people your age, grab a booth, and sing badly together!  The latest hit 'Taking over midnight'
really sounds good when sung in perfect drunken three-part harmony.
[ ] Block party!  It looks like someone's got something to celebrate as the people are getting out for a BBQ and street music.
[ ] VR Arcade!  Neurohelmets and Tri-D videogames are way to cumbersome for home users, but the experience is worth going out.
[ ] Art Gallery! Artists can be fun to talk to, you can get some intellectual stimulation, and maybe pick up a companion for a single night.
[ ] Coffee shop!  The home of people in turtlenecks with computers.  Another place where young singles hang out,
but watch out for those just looking for coffee and free wi-fi.
[ ] Head Back to the room.  The responsible/boring option for fun-haters.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #124 on: 27 November 2015, 18:33:23 »
It's Saturday isn't it?  So work is the day after tomorrow, right?

The VR arcade might give a better idea of the level of technology the world has available, but I'm actually for a bottle of grain alcohol (no, not the whole bottle at once) and some mixers back at the apartment.  The time to start making the handler's life miserable isn't the first week on planet.

And as far as hangovers, as long as you keep the water to drink ratio even or in favor of the water, no hangover.  At least that's been my experience, which has included serious pub crawls in various places around the world (Hong Kong is the best so far... look up Lan Kwai Fong if you find yourself there, though Split Croatia has a very nice area down by the port).

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #125 on: 27 November 2015, 19:16:45 »
It's Saturday isn't it?  So work is the day after tomorrow, right?

The VR arcade might give a better idea of the level of technology the world has available, but I'm actually for a bottle of grain alcohol (no, not the whole bottle at once) and some mixers back at the apartment.  The time to start making the handler's life miserable isn't the first week on planet.

And as far as hangovers, as long as you keep the water to drink ratio even or in favor of the water, no hangover.  At least that's been my experience, which has included serious pub crawls in various places around the world (Hong Kong is the best so far... look up Lan Kwai Fong if you find yourself there, though Split Croatia has a very nice area down by the port).
Sunday.  We're speeding through the weekend, and she spent Saturday looking at apartments.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #126 on: 27 November 2015, 19:56:47 »
Ah, got it...

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #127 on: 27 November 2015, 20:56:05 »
I should also remind you that you're setting the character's personality with choices still, but I'll be closing that window soon and locking down her personality.  So if you want to be able to ever give your handler fits, you should do so now, or stay home every weekend from now until eternity.  You're spent too much time focused on doing your job to dodge 'all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.'  Now that doesn't mean that shenanigans won't happen in this quest-you'll just be the target, not a participant.
« Last Edit: 27 November 2015, 23:18:00 by Vehrec »
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Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #128 on: 28 November 2015, 18:29:07 »
I'm for a local bar or two, but go easy on the booze until we get the lay of the land.  This trip is more in the lines of a scouting expedition.  Look for the best ambiance, the best hunting ground, the best DJ, ETC....

(The first trip into the woods isn't meant to bring home any game.  Rather it's to locate game trails, watering holes, and rut-scrapes ahead of the actual season.  Saves time and effort in the long run when you know where the game is most easily found.   >:D )

Koren-Gagin

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #129 on: 29 November 2015, 00:28:49 »
I'm for a local bar or two, but go easy on the booze until we get the lay of the land.  This trip is more in the lines of a scouting expedition.  Look for the best ambiance, the best hunting ground, the best DJ, ETC....

(The first trip into the woods isn't meant to bring home any game.  Rather it's to locate game trails, watering holes, and rut-scrapes ahead of the actual season.  Saves time and effort in the long run when you know where the game is most easily found.   >:D )

Are we hunting big game or hunting men i confused a bit. If the plan is to bar hop i all for this if not ill get back with ya.
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Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #130 on: 29 November 2015, 12:20:19 »
Men, women, transexuals, intersex, or genderqueer, Minako doesn't care, she's pansexual.
---
You don't know many details about the local economy, but you've read that it's three main exports are electronics, fancy jewelry, and Atlas Black Rum.  You've never actually had any of that fabled liquor, but it has a brand recognition that penetrates deep into the Inner Sphere, and a single bottle commands a high price.  You've been able to read the labels though, and you know that the stuff is aged for five years (which is like aging whiskey for 25 years, thanks to the high heat around here) in a barrel made from alien wood that grows nowhere else in human space, then carefully blended to bring forward it's best qualities.  It is said to taste like allspice, caramel, and a bunch of other flavors depending on who is being paid to have snobish opinions about it.  Mechwarriors take it straight, while most other people have to make do with having it in mixers, not being paid enough to afford it.

You find to your annoyance that the famed Atlas Black brand is almost completely absent from local bars because it all gets exported and thus one must pay interstellar import prices even on it's world of origin.  There are other drinks though, and you sip your way through a variety of Cachaça, Rum, and Tequilla based drinks.  You sample Pulque in a street bar and decide that it is a definitely acquired taste with it's milky color and syrupy texture.  You find a sushi bar where the fish is good but the rice is somewhat off and you are served Baiju instead of Souchu.  You hit up a discotheque, and spend a good half hour on the dance floor dancing with guys and ladies.  You work on the local language as well, trying to avoid English entirely and attempting to translate even as you get steadily more and more drunk.  You preform a drunkards walk from bar to bar, the establishments getting more and more lower class as you leave the center of town and worm your way back towards the hotel, before finally cutting it short just before 13 o'clock and heading back to your hotel room.

You don't feel so hot once you stop drinking for about half an hour.  It's a quirk of genetics and despite several centuries of genetic engineering, you have somehow inherited a non-functional copy of a gene that codes for mitochondrial isozyme.  You like drinking-but the hangover is literally killer as your cells simply can't deal with the toxic by-products of your drinking.  Despite plenty of water, you know that there's gonna be a steep price to pay for your drinking.  And it makes you a lightweight, so you've never been able to put away beer after beer without consequences.  You have medication for this though, so you pop pills, relieve you bladder, and get into bed.  As a result, you feel only slightly like an elephant is standing on your head the next morning.

Getting into work, you're pleasantly surprised to find you're no longer alone in the office-and less pleasantly surprised to find that you have a meeting scheduled with the Lead Designer first thing.  You and the five transfers head to the the meeting room and sit down for your briefing.   Mr. Sanjiv wastes little time on minutes or other prefunctory standards.  "Right.  We're bringing in the new hires for this department this week-your task will be to bring them up to speed, brief them on their responsibilities, and work out the worst of the kinks.  I want you to also decide on what design you're going to be working on to start them off.  Don't pick anything too complex, or you'll be spending months debugging and fixing problems."  (Status effect: Green Designers.  +2 to all TNs to design mechs until you complete either two designs or one design with more positive than negative quirks.)

Mister Sanjiv also has something to show you.  The tiny ingot is shaped a bit like a lower case l, thinned in the middle and thick at the ends, which indicates to you that it's one of those ones you get cast to test an alloy's quality in tension and compression.  Picking it up off the table though, you're shocked by it's lightness-it's small, yess, but it feels like it's barely there at all, and certainly not solid.  "Endo-steel.  Our friends at the national academy have been working on a production process for some time now, and they assure me they are close to a breakthough.  Some asteroid-base in the inner belt, they've had mining operations there for decades but always just test runs and experimental production.  They still have some bugs to work out though."  You give the piece a flex in your hands and it pops alarmingly after a few moments straining that makes your arms shake-you drop it to the table and grimace at the crack, but your boss just sighs.

"That's not supposed to happen.  But they're having trouble with brittleness?  I don't think we can use it if they're having that much."  You tap a fingernail on the cracked ingot and then slide it down the table to the next engineer for their inspection.  "Why bring this up now?"

The boss grunts and fidgets.  "There is a...suggestion that there might be an order to use advanced metalurgy if it becomes available.  Especially on lighter designs-and I know, this isn't ideal, but if it can squeeze out a little extra performance, General Rodriguez is hot on it. It will be easier to design for it in such an eventuality, but I cannot say if the material will actually be available."

You seem caught on the horns of a dilemma here.  Not only do you need to decide which of your prospective designs to move forward on realizing in metal and myomer, but you need to decide if you want to do so with expensive materials that seem to only theoretically be in production right now.  You're reminded of the original Mackie, which went into production with it's armor so new that production of the armor had been the limiting factor, and a six month delay had ensued when half the first company saluted and plates fell off.  And that was a good example of immature technology being used in a design!

Code: [Select]
[ ] Suggest a design that will use standard structure.
[ ] Suggest a design that will use Endo-Steel Structure.
[ ] Suggest a design that will use ...you're not sure, you need time to crunch numbers.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #131 on: 29 November 2015, 14:42:33 »
Oh hell no... standard structure for the first design.  It's easy enough to make sure there's room for endo-steel later, but we're not betting our first design's success on the team that produced the Pistolero.

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #132 on: 29 November 2015, 14:44:46 »
At least for the time being, I would suggest a standard structure unit for our first mech.

I suggest this for a number of reasons:

1) We don't know for sure IF the endo-steel will be available.
     1A: If so, in what quantity?

2) Price.  IF it's available, given that our people are just now bringing it forward, we are still looking at a cutting edge technology for this region.  Cutting edge tech is ALWAYS more expensive than a mature technology.
   2A: That being the case, most production is likely to be slow, very expensive, and fraught with mistakes/bad runs.  Again, driving up the cost per unit.  Not a good plan for a design meant to stay under budget.

3) Familiarity:  Endo-steel is quirky stuff.  It has some very useful, but very finicky special qualities.  Minako has studied it in school, but she cannot honestly say she's had enough experience with it to be comfortable using it on a new design.  Refits?  Sure, but not a new unit.
   3A: This also applies to the techs intended to maintain/repair the mechs in the field.  Are we prepared in this regard?  End0-steel requires special equipment and techniques to repair, how many techs do we have that are certified in this?  Do we even have the special equipment?
   3B:  Limited experience on Minako's part, and likely ZERO experience on the part of the lead designer, as well as the local transfers, means that mistakes are a near certainty, again driving up cost, as well as slowing the release schedule.

No, Minako would recommend a more conservative approach for this first design.  Let's get our feet wet first, and give everyone time to settle in and develop a good team before throwing them into deep water.

Koren-Gagin

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #133 on: 30 November 2015, 02:30:39 »
Overall i agree standard way to go but as the project comes to a finish. Testing on the endo before next project could be a possibility that should not be overlooked. Besides we got vees comin out of the wood work, let the guys in the tank area work with it before any mech even gets near it.

Oh whats the status on that laser weilding monstrosities engine, any word if there is a chance to replicate it?
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Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #134 on: 30 November 2015, 11:42:46 »
You glance at your fellow designers and then shake your head.  "Probably best not to jump into that particular pirahna infested river right away.  We need more experience before I'm comfortable with using those materials.  It would just make an already difficult project even more so.  We need to lock down the internal structure before anything else anyways, so it would be the part that we would have the least experience with."

Mr. Sanjiv leans back in his chair.  "Are you certain?  By the same token, you will be ripping out the very skeleton of your design if you attempt to retrofit this.  It will probably take nearly as long to design a proper refit as it does to do the whole thing from scratch."

You shake your head.  "No, it won't, for three reasons.  First, the team will have more experience, more confidence, and a working design under their belts to start from.  If we try this now, they will have no practical experience desigining the internal structure, and we'll waste a lot of time trying to come to grips with everything at once. Second, I'll have gotten a firmer grasp on the quirks of locally produced Endo-steel.  I'm betting that there will still be some issues and oddities when we finally get finished product.  We need to be aware of those to make proper designs.  And third, we can design with an eye on the future and leave enough space for the bigger actuators and 'bones' of an Endo-steel design."  You think about it and wince.  "It's still gonna be a pain to design a refit, but we can do better later than we can now."

Quote
Refits:  It may sometimes save time to take an existing design and refit it into a new role.  However, much like Refit Kits, refit designs are divided into 6 levels of difficulty.  Because Minako has Refit Madness, all refit checks are modified by -1.
Type A Refit: Because of the extreme simplicity of this type of refit takes only one check and one week of work.
Type B Refit: A more complex refit, this class requires two checks (weapons and controls) and two weeks of work.
Type C Refit: This refit requires three checks (Weapons, controls and armor), and a month to complete.  Adding heat sinks requires an additional check, but does not extend the time required.
Type D Refit: This refit grade requires a variable number of checks to deal with the installation of new components, alteration of heat sinks etc, and will be assessed on a case-by-case basis..
Type E Refit: To remove a negative quirk or add a new quirk, a Type E Refit is required.  Only such a comprehensive re-working can enable the alteration of the complex interactions that create quirks, and as a result the refit design is an abbreviated full-up design, with all parts not up for revision tested at -3, and no step taking more than a week except for two weeks of final check-outs.
Type F Refit: At this level, you are practically designing a new mech that shares a few similarities to the existing design.  You must entirely repeat the design process, but get a -2 to any design step that is not altered.  IE: to refit a XL engine, you must widen the chasis somewhat to support this and rearrange armor, but since you are not actually changing the types used, these checks are somewhat easier.

"And have you got any suggestions as to what the first design should be if you're going to be breaking the team in on it?"

Code: [Select]
[ ] Write In.
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Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #135 on: 30 November 2015, 12:48:13 »
Minako thinks a moment.  "Well, I have a few ideas, but before I get ahead of myself, I think one of the first questions that would be helpful if answered is: "What military doctrine is the design intended to support?"."

She paused, "You see, if the doctrine is one of mobility and fast moving maneuver warfare, like the Draconis Combine and to some extent the Federated Suns, a lighter, more mobile design would probably be a good place to start.  But, if the doctrine envisioned is a slower, more armor and raw firepower oriented line-of-battle doctrine like the Lyrans, a heavier, slower design makes the most sense in terms of a basic trooper design."

She chuckled slightly, "I am sure you see where designing for the wrong doctrine could have somewhat less than ideal results.  Aside from the obvious tactical issues, such machines are often quite unpopular with the Command structure, as well as the troops, who tend to view assignment to them as punishment detail.  Something about driving a mech that your commanders don't really like, or know how to assign properly tends to do that."

She smiled cynically.  "For some odd reason, light and medium mech drivers don't like being assigned tasks more suited to a heavy mech, nor do heavy or assault mech drivers especially enjoy playing catch up as the rest of their unit leaves them in the dust."

Koren-Gagin

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #136 on: 30 November 2015, 18:31:07 »
No need to reinvent the wheel, by using a known mech design as basis is the way to go. Sure since we cant replicate a mech 100% is an ok comprise. Since we can use any current design pending on the combat operations the military  wish to use it for. Of course this need and desire for operation well decide all factors.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #137 on: 30 November 2015, 19:21:05 »
I like Warclaw's write-in, but my read of the situation is the generals want the 60 ton Trooper design we were discussing.  It's less likely to be misused tactically, employs an engine and weapons we already know how to make, is easily converted to a support variant they want (Class C refit at worst), and won't be too hard to redesign into the flashbulb I really want to build (Class D refit for the jump jets, Class C for everything else, I think).

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #138 on: 01 December 2015, 12:11:09 »
So one person wants a discussion of doctrine, one wants to licence an Inner sphere design and mod it, and one wants doctrine but also wants to force a 60-ton trooper down the throat of the doctrine that they get.  Hooo boy.
---
A couple of the other designers scoff at you.  "Oh yes, doctrine.  When you find out about doctrine, tell us as well, please."  "We have twelve mechs of twelve designs in our military, what doctrine do you think we have beyond throwing Mechs at a wall?"  Niklos stands up and walks over to a whiteboard.  "I think I can explain our current trouble with a little visual aid."  He divides the board into thirds, then bisects them with a line to produce six squares.  "Right now, our military has twelve mechs assigned to an attached company of the First Armored Guards.  The first and currently only Guards Armored regiment.  We also have five Guards Infantry regiments and two Guards Artillery regiments.  All of these are combined arms regiments in truth, but the proportions are skewed heavily in the directions you might expect."  All this goes into one square.  "Below that, we have our Regulars, who are organized into Brigades instead of regiments.  Continental system, six to eight battalions per brigade.  There are no mechs there, but a lot of light tanks and APCs and towed artillery.  Below that-" and he shifts squares again. "We have regional militias.  Each is assigned to defend a district until heavier forces can arrive-they need to make do with whatever hand-me-downs can be spared from the Regulars, local know-how, and somewhat generous allocations of shoulder-launched missiles in the event of a Pirate attack."  He pauses and then draws a stick figure with a missile launcher.  "Somewhat generous."

He shifts to the other trio of squares and starts drawing again, much more densely.  "That is now.  The future is...uncertain.  General Rodriguez wants to add two Regiments of Mechs to the Guards.  He is in favor of speed and a high operational tempo.  He is also in favor of attaching a lance of mechs to select Militia regiments, to act as hole-pluggers and troubleshooters as well as suppressing potential rebellion.  Such a design would need to cover a large area but maintain some striking edge.  General Federov is older-school.  He favors an expansion of the tank corp to Five regiments of guards, each with an attached Battalion of mechs for flanking, reserves, and that indefinable little extra something.  He also wants new Guards Artillery regiments, since he is firmly in favor of never making an attack unsupported by artillery, and never defending a position without sufficient long range guns and rockets.  He is willing to spare some attention for the regular tank brigades- a few Mech battalions here and there, but he thinks that spreading them around the the militia one lance at a time is a mistake."

He looks at his work and shrugs.  "And of course, neither general can overrule the other, and our great leader has yet to make her decision.  All that is on her mind is the thought of what might happen if Hanse Davion decides that the Territorial States of the old Star League were a good idea and thinks we might be a interesting acquisition.  The Piranha principle is all very well and good-but we need some teeth to bite with, and while twelve mechs might have been enough twenty years ago, they don't go very far today.  Or maybe these Clans will attempt a flanking maneuver right through us-to be somewhat less of a speedbump, that is the purpose of this program."
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #139 on: 01 December 2015, 19:43:43 »
It's beginning to sound like they want a 6/9 Trooper on a world without XL engines.  The best I've been able to do so far in SSW is 6/9/0, 8.5 tons of armor, a Large Laser, an SRM-2, and 4 MGs with the ammo protected by CASE for 3,215,860 C-Bills plus the premium on the CASE, so call it 3.4M for round figures.  If it's that light and that fast, it's crying out for jump jets, which you can get by dropping the SRM-2 and two of the Machine Guns for about 3.7M.  So that's one way to do the Scout Hunter and Trooper at 40 tons, though I still think 60 is the better way to go for the Trooper.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #140 on: 02 December 2015, 17:34:31 »
(cont. because not enough responses)

You let your head drop to the table with a bang and then looked up after a beat.  "So what you're saying is that there's two schools of thought at work here.  Or more, but two big schools, neither of who has the actual purse strings or can overrule the other?  And the person who does control the money and the decisions is refraining from actually giving us guidelines because..." 

Mr. Sanjiv cuts in.  "I do not pretend to know El Presidente's mind on this matter.  She had very good relations with Katrina Steiner, but has been unable to maintain the same standards with the current Archon.  Still, no real risk there.  We are on speaking terms with the Free World's League and their Captain-General as well, even if he probably has aides to respond to our diplomatic missives.  But either one has the power to crush us like an ant, and that no doubt wears at her mind.  She is however...frugal when it comes to military expenditures.  This revolution in military technology we hear so much about these days, perhaps she has been thinking 'another year or two, and we can have the weapons we truly need'.  Why spend a billion this year in procurement of a thing which will be obsolete next year?  And I can see the appeal but... well, a decision must be made at some point."

He frowns and looks reflective.  "Both sides will want a fire-support mech I believe, and something to fill out lower priority formations.  Neither is particularly glamorous, but either project could be made to serve.  A main-line combatant however...that is a little harder to predict what will be accepted and rejected." He gives you a hard look.  "I know our competition in this well.  They have made their name with hovercraft and jets and things that are quick-they will no doubt be working on something that would look sharp and quick and not out of place in a Draconis Combine formation.  They will probably ignore the assault option, but unless you can make something special there, I think it will be the first thing dropped from the contest."

Well, that's some more info-but you still have to put forward your opinion on what's the best thing to start with.

Code: [Select]
[ ] Write in a proposal for a mech design to go in on? 
[ ] Or request orders on what to make first?
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #141 on: 02 December 2015, 19:18:26 »
OK, so cheap, fast, and heavily armed.  What I'd really like to say is "pick two", but that's not the option I want to choose.  La Jefa seems to be trying to hold out on spending a lot of money until advanced technology is available, so whatever we go with will need to be easily upgraded and cheap.  I think that's driving us to the 40 ton designs.  4/6 will drive us away from our own engine, but give us enough tonnage to do both the Trooper and Fire Support designs at minimum cost.  If we win the initial competition, that could give us a leg up in the 6/9 competition later.

Fire Support at 40 tons looks like a Large Laser, LRM-15, and two tons of ammo protected by CASE for right around 3M even, unless we want to do a Whitworth clone.

The 40 ton Trooper looks something like Warclaw's initial swag, but I'm pretty sure the AMS has to go (since I don't even see it on the list of available equipment, and the government would likely have to continue smuggling in ammo on a recurring basis).  Maybe jam a medium in there and CASE instead.  Or a few RL/10s since we make those too.

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #142 on: 02 December 2015, 20:42:39 »
My read is also that we are looking initially at a 40 ton unit.

I think 6/9 though, instead of a 4/6 or 5/8 movement profile.

I say this because we want to keep as much of the production, (and profits) in house as possible.  Keeping it in house, also allows us a greater control over supply chain, and avoids some possible snags.

I do realize that this choice will limit our weapons load somewhat, but I believe that the greater mobility will offset this.

Dropping the AMS isn't a big problem.

As far as designs....at 40 tons and 6/9, you pretty much have to decide if you want direct fire support or indirect/long range, not both.  Of course, we have the option of putting forward a semi-modular design, with alternate load-outs.  Not an Omni, per-se, but a line of mechs with a common frame/engine/movement profile/armor layout, differing only in weapons selection.  For example, two mechs, each carrying an over-the-shoulder weapons pod.  On the Fire-support version, it holds an LRM 15, but on the version intended for close work it carries a pair of SRM-6 racks and a Medium laser.

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #143 on: 02 December 2015, 21:00:09 »
If we drop the CASE, the fire support version could have two tons of ammo and a medium laser for zero heat at a run.  LRM-5 spam would be cheaper, but slightly more heat.

For direct fire, I think we'd be crazy to ignore the in house large laser.  Of course, that only leaves 5 tons for secondary weapons and heat sinks.  If we had DHS, that could be two large lasers...

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #144 on: 02 December 2015, 21:36:14 »
well, yes, the generalist design would most likely carry a large laser.  However I was looking at two possible missile based weapons pods.

Granted, the dual SRM-6 pod is rather specialized for in-fighting, but would YOU want to dig a lance of them out of an urban area?

What I am proposing is at least a pair of designs, possibly a trio, all sharing 80% plus common elements, with the only differences being in the right arm/torso.

All 6/9 movement, 40 ton designs.
All with 8.5 tons of armor (Efficient Maximum)
All w/10 heatsinks
All w/ CASE in the right torso
All w/ 2 locally produced MG's in the left arm.


Design #1:  Large Laser, SRM-4, 2 MG's, 1 ton SRM ammo, 1/2 ton MG ammo,
     3.24 million C-Bills/Unit by SSW's calculations
Design #2:  3X LRM-5, 2 Mg's, 1/2 ton MG ammo, 2 tons LRM ammo,
     3.14 million C-Bills/Unit by SSW's calculations
Design #3: 2X SRM-6, 2MG's, 1/2 ton MG ammo, 2 tons SRM ammo
     3.24 million C-Bills/Unit by SSW's calculations


AND, Design #4 (The Militia/export model, AKA the bastard stepchild)
     Medium Rifle, 2 MG's, 2 RL-10's, 1/2 ton MG ammo, 2 tons Rifle ammo
      3.16 million C-Bills/Unit by SSW's calculations

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #145 on: 03 December 2015, 04:42:59 »
Hmmm... my SSW has slightly different numbers, though I think the premium for CASE makes that a wash.  If we're shooting for cheap, a pair of SRM-2s would be about 50K less than the SRM-4 (after the final multiplier is factored in), and provides one more non-ammo critical hit in that torso.  With no medium laser secondary weapon, an ammo explosion is a mission kill, but I'm not sure how to fit one in on designs two or three (one is just dropping to one SRM-2 and four we're not worried about).

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #146 on: 03 December 2015, 19:04:22 »
You make your case eloquently, but you get the feeling that you've put a foot wrong from the get go-forty tons and a sixty five kilometer cruising speed makes the table glance at each other uneasily.  Still, they listen without any interuptions until they finish at which point two objections are raised.  "This Cellular Ammunion rack...we'd need to ship partially constructed components to somewhere in the Inner Sphere, get them to add it, and then ship it back, without the government of said somewhere noticing.  That will take a lot of bribes-and we're looking at adding three to four months, round trip."

"Which isn't to say it's impossible-it just...requires we export and then re-import our own half-finished Mech torsos."  The poor engineer who's having to point this out looks really uncomfortable.  "I'm aware that it adds considerable survivablity for the pilot, but our supply chain's always been fairly short.  And I don't know if it will be worth it to extend it that far."

"The bigger issue-"  Nikos bumps in at this point, frowning and tenting his hands.  "The bigger issue is that we already have a tank with a large laser and a four-tube SRM launcher that weighs 40 tons and moves at the same speed you picked.  If we go with this and spin it wrong, someone will see the designs as competing rather than complimentary, and one will get the axe.  And the T-50 is shaping up to be a real nice tank, so while normally people might go for the Mech, I don't know if our freshmen effort will be up to it." 

They aren't allowed to show you the full design for the new tank, but they can describe it in enough detail for you to work out a fairly good picture in your head...

Code: [Select]
T-50

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-A
Production Year: 3052
Cost: 1,309,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 628

Power Plant: BN Fusion Systems 240 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 64.8 km/h
Flanking Speed: 97.2 km/h
Armor: Guard-Plate 20 Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Series 52 Large Laser
    1  SRM-4
    1 Series 00 Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Brasillia National Armory
    Primary Factory: New Brasillia, Cabanagem
Communications System: Tierra del Sol 35
Targeting and Tracking System: BNA Acu-Trax

Overview:
Constructed by Brasillia Nationa Armory, the T-50 is a light-Medium tank intended to
compete directly with the 50% larger Bulldog.  Mounting similar armaments, the
T-50 has a lower profile, uses an easy-to-maintain fusion powerplant with
robust torsion bar suspension, and is more accurate at long range.  Armor is
comparable, and while the tank is less durrable thanks to smaller size and
carries a smaller weapons load, it has a significantly higher turn of speed.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                4.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      17.50
    Cruise MP:  6
    Flank MP:   9
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     26       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                              Turret     21       
                                                Rear     17       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun                                  FR        0         1         0.50
Large Laser                                  T         8         1         5.00
SRM-4                                        T         3         1         2.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
6t         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: TUR(2/2/0)

  It's hardly a great tank, but for what it's role is-a cheap and quicker light tank with some punch-it seems to get the job done.  And it is pretty close to the cost of a Bulldog, which is the slightly-tarnished copper standard of energy-weapon tanks.  You can see how you might need to consider how to spin this to executives and to military buyers alike to convince them not to cut one program or the other...

Code: [Select]
[ ] I think I can see a way forward with my suggestions. 
[ ] I think it might be time to back off and come at this again from a different angle.
[ ] I think I need to write in?
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #147 on: 03 December 2015, 20:46:37 »
Nice of them to finally tell us they were already building a tank to meet the firepower/speed requirement.  In that case, I think we're back to the 60 ton range, unless we want to go for broke with an Assault.

We already know both factions want a fire support mech, and that works best at 60 tons (see our earlier dual LRM-15 design, which could lead to the Trooper in the future).

For pure innovation, I vote for my flashbulb.  It's nothing like any of the tanks we could build, and two large lasers would be a quantum leap in fire power.  Even if it loses that arm, it'll still have the four mediums.  When we some day get DHS and/or Blazer Cannons, it's an easy refit.

If we go for broke, the Assault I outlined earlier meets the requirements for a dropship/fortification cracker, and has enough lasers to be dangerous when it runs out of ammo.

If we want to try sticking to the 40 ton 6/9 design, the way to differentiate from a tank is to go crazy with lasers.  Two larges are something a tank can't do economically.  Alternatively, one large, four mediums and a heat sink will perfectly upgrade with DHS to no heat at a run.

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #148 on: 03 December 2015, 21:10:30 »
Minako rubs the bridge of her nose.  "Lovely...and I suppose that was not considered when the specs for the Project 49 mech were listed?  I mean, it asks right in the design request for SRM's, a large laser, and machine guns."

She shook her head and sighed.  "Right then...Ok, the CASE isn't absolutely critical to the design, but as you noted, it would increase unit and pilot survive-ability significantly.  Turning a mech destroying ammo explosion into one that does significant damage, but allows the mech to withdraw under its own power and be repaired."  She smiled wryly, "Not to mention the pilot morale and confidence boosts inherent in a design that maximizes pilot safety and survivability."

Thinking a moment, she took a deep breath before speaking.  "So...the differences between the proposed mech designs and the new tank..."

"Well, for one, the mech only requires one trained pilot, as opposed to three tank crewmen.  And historically, tank crew survival rates are somewhat less than that of mech pilots, once they hit combat, so there is that to consider."

Rubbing her eyes, Minako continues. "As well, while the movement profiles are similar on paper, in practice the mech is actually significantly more mobile, as it can operate in terrain that a tracked unit is unable to traverse."

"I also think looking at this as a competition between the two designs is the wrong way to approach things.  Instead, we should be looking at how the two units COMPLEMENT each other.  For one thing, they could share a number of weapons components, as well as ammunition and fusion engines, simplifying supply concerns.  For another, their roles could mesh very neatly.  Tanks, especially low profile, reasonably well armored ones like the T-50, are quite good in a defensive role, and even better when allowed time to set up defensive works or fighting positions.  On the other hand, a mech unit like the ones we are proposing, lends itself more readily to offensive operations and counter attacks.  In other words, the Tanks are the shield and the mechs the sword.  Both valuable, both with an important role."

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #149 on: 04 December 2015, 23:20:06 »
...Okay, I'm drawing a blank on how to square you two again.  I could just run with Warclaw's, but he has Minako basically repeating the same 'coordination not competition' thing back at the guys that they just mentioned-they clearly know that the two designs could be used in harmony, they just think that their customers might not see it that way.
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